jarp

AH has been gone 8 days now. DS6 has not asked about him and said he doesn't want to talk about him.

Tonight he opened up and said he's feeling sad and misses Daddy. Understandable. Before rehab a year ago AH was pretty absent, but after rehab he's been the house husband and has been around all the time - looking after the kids whilst I worked. So he's had AH around A LOT.

I acknowledged his feelings and validated him. I asked if he'd like to draw him a picture or 'write' him a letter and we'd send it to him. He asked about speaking to him.

AH has contacted me once, briefly on prompting from his sister, to ask about our insurance for detox. He did ask how DS was....but he'd been drinking.

Apparently he's going into detox tomorrow. For 7-10 days, but there is a 2-3 week wait list after that for rehab. He will be staying with his sister in those weeks as he is not coming back here.

Ive been fine not talking to him...and I am better for not talking to him, I know if I do I will weaken in my resolve to not be in a relationship with AH, and to keep him away from our home.

Can I ask for advice? After a couple of days in detox, do you think I should call so DS can talk to him? If he answers the phone...

I don't want contact with him. But I'll need to. I want to facilitate, if possible, a relationship but know that I cant force AH to do the 'right thing' (i.e. have some contact with him when sober) by his son, nor can I manipulate him into it.

Should I text him and ask if DS can call? I'm angry so want to make sure I don't convey this through sarcasm...i.e. tempted to say "I know you are busy but you have a six year old boy who badly miss you, when you find time in your schedule to remember him could you give him a call". I WON'T I PROMISE....but I want to....

Or am I better to wait for him to contact DS and just help DS as much as I can...help him write a letter or something else?

Croissant

Hi Jarp, I might have read this out of context but I'd just leave him to sort out the detox and rehab. If he wants to see his son, he will.

I know that's not easy, I just don't see the point of forcing communication when he's in the state he's in. Also, it may not be the best version of him that your child gets anyway.

Is there anyway you can move towards getting counselling for yourself and focusing on building a life without him in it for now?

jarp

Doing all that Croissant thanks. Happy building my own life. Having nothing to do with organising detox or rehab or anything ex to say if he wants it, he'll do it. Its not really my focus.

My focus is our son who wants to talk to his dad. I'm wondering whether I should reach out to him for our son and ask him to speak to him when he's right to, or whether I should just say to DS "no we need to wait for daddy to call", which feels very hurtful.

I also want DS to know I am not keeping them apart and will help him if he asks. But that ultimately I'll also want to protect him. It seems difficult when I kid says "can I call Daddy on the weekend" and for me to say "no, you cant". Esp as my girls dad is very involved and calls/ they call him/ he pops round/ sees them all the time, and I'm very happy with this.

redatlanta

Tough one. I think that AH is not calling, when he can, perhaps speaks to his mental situation right now. I guess if it were me I would leave well enough alone for now.

I would probably just say to DS that Dad is not feeling well, and is with his Aunt, rather than say "we have to wait on Dad to call". Purchase some get well cards and give them to DS to send to his dad. Sounds like your ex has a very good relationship with you and your kids - might he be willing to give your DS a little extra attention in the meantime when he comes by?

Perhaps after detox he will be in a better state to have a conversation with DS.

happybeingme

Do not call him for your son. I strongly recommend you get your son into therapy. He needs to learn that dad is sick, may always be sick, and cannot be depended on. I know a year is a long time for a little boy of six but your son could be in for a lifetime of crazy with your husband. I'm have two sons myself. I can't imagine how hard it must be to not have a dependable male figure for your son but your husband is a mess and he will most likely always be emotionally unstable. I don't think there should be any calls right now. You can't be sure what your husband will say to him. Keep it letters for now

Croissant

Oh yes, Jarp, I didn't mean you were sorting out his rehab, I just meant it as a turn of phrase, "leave him to sort it out". As in sort himself and his addictions out, before commencing contact.

Others are right, (as much as it hurts) he may never get well. I hope he does.

I would not force a situation of contact where the outcome may be that your child feels rejected if old Dad isn't in the right state of mind to take a call. That was the intent of my post.

LexieCat

Yeah, I think I wouldn't try to set up any phone calls just now. He's likely to be an emotional mess at LEAST until he's out of rehab. For the moment, I think comforting your son and explaining as best you can that Dad is sick is probably the best course for the time being. A phone call before he's ready might wind up hurting your son more than waiting would.

Hugs,

hopeful4

I personally would tell your little guy that daddy is sick and has to be away to get well right now, but to write a letter and things like that to send to daddy.

That is just my .02

XXX

ladyscribbler

Right after I left my ex, we basically had no contact with him for almost a year. He got his phone shut off and I had no reliable way to get in touch with him. Once in a while he'd borrow a phone from someone and drunk dial late at night to rant at me, but that was about it. It was hard because our son (4 at the time, 6 now) really missed daddy.
I encouraged our son to draw pictures for him and make cards to send him in the mail. We'd also pick out holiday cards and he'd write little notes for his dad and he helped me go through the photos on the camera and pick out the ones he wanted to send.
When he asked why he couldn't see/talk to daddy I told him daddy loved him and missed him, but was sick and had an age-appropriate talk about the disease of alcoholism. Not bad-mouthing my ex or blaming anyone, but giving him a name for what was going on so he wouldn't blame himself.
None of this is perfect, but it did help us. I'm so sorry you and your son are going through this. For me it's the most heartbreaking part of the disease, when drinking is placed ahead of young children who just want their parent back. Huge hugs to you both.

FireSprite

I wouldn't call either, for all the same reasons shared above. I love the idea of writing cards or making pictures that can be shared with him later if possible because it still helps DS process his feelings about all of it Right Now. (((((hugs)))))

Refiner

I would not contact him for your son. I know it hurts to see ds hurt and you just want to protect him, though.

minime13

Easier said than done, but there isn't a lot, on your AH's side, that you can control here. That's basically what you're trying to do - not purposely, so this isn't an accusation - to even out a situation.

Encouragement to write, draw pictures, and other forms of communication are good. Let your son get it out, and then you can send the letters and pictures along . Give the explanation that his dad is not well right now and is receiving treatment, and that the best way for his son to communicate with him is in writing form.

You can't force or control the relationship between the two of them, though. Just like recovery, your AH is going to have to take those steps on his own. Just be there for your son (through all above-mentioned methods) the best that you can be.

FindingMe2

I remembering being asked by a therapist......if your husband was having a nervous breakdown and was experiencing some psychosis would you have his daughter call him? My answer was no of course. I was then encouraged to think about alcoholism, detox and rehab along those lines. It really helped me put thinks in perspective.

atalose

You are angry at your husband!

And at the same time you feel….

Yet you want badly to reach out to him, on your child’s behalf. Sure you are trying to save your child hurt and disappointment with his father and I’m sure fill some need inside of youself to hear his voice.

Lots of mixed emotions going on inside of you that may be overshadowing logic.

Do you really think contacting someone in detox on day 2 for “relationship issues” is going to bring you or your son any desired results?

Maybe the healthier approach is to begin explaining that your child’s father has an illness that he needs to take care of speaking to him right now is not possible.

ShootingStar1

When my first husband and I divorced, my children were 5 and 9. He was not an alcoholic or addicted, but he was selfish and did whatever he did on his own timetable and for his own benefit. Sometimes he wouldn't get gifts for birthdays or change the plans to see them at the last minute.

I made the mistake of trying to cover for him and make it "okay" for the kids by doing in his name what he wouldn't do himself.

Now, with my kids grown, I think I made a huge mistake. My daughter, especially, was very perceptive about people's feelings and actions. She knew in her heart that her father was not interested in her welfare.

However, since I tried to cover up for him, she didn't have the benefit of the honesty of facing what he was really like versus her ideal of him. What happened was that she felt SHE was inadequate, and that the problem was with her, not him.

I should have let the chips fall where they fell and let my children learn to deal openly and honestly with the fact that their father had major flaws and an inability to value them more than he valued themselves.

Then my daughter wouldn't have developed an insecurity from believing if she had only been better, more, whatever, her dad would have wanted her. My son, on the other hand, at 9, recognized who his dad was, and decided right then and there that dad was a jerk. Dad took him cross country skiing at the local golf course, got obnoxious with my son, and my son took off. Dad had the police out looking for him when 2 hours later, my son walked in my front door with his skis over his shoulder.

Son said "What is the matter with you guys? Dad was a jerk and made me mad at him, and I decided I didn't want to be with him anymore, so I walked home. Why were you worried? I know where I live."

Years later, my ex husband picked my daughter and all of her stuff up from college for summer vacation. He drove two hours, got tired and went home, unloaded all her stuff in his driveway and went in and took a nap. My house was an hour further drive. We had to find two drivers and take two cars and drive to his house, reload all her stuff in our cars, and take her home.

By then, after a lot of counselling, my daughter knew who her father was and we just all shook our heads at how outrageous his behavior was and how we shouldn't have trusted that he would do what he said to get her to our home.

If your son sends cards and such to a man who does not care and will not respond, it is likely that your son still will feel that he is inadequate and not worthy of dad's love. Otherwise, dad would have called him. It is just another form of rejection from dad.

I'd say, tell it like it is. "Dad is sick and he isn't talking with us right now because of his illness. You are a great kid. You didn't do anything at all wrong to make him act like this. We could both stand on our heads right now, and he still wouldn't talk to us. It is his problem because he is sick and not thinking right. It is his loss not to understand what a fabulous boy you are. Now let's go out and have some fun - you deserve it."

Shakespeare said "True compassion is ruthless". The truth may hurt, but the reality- shown by his actions - is that this man is not a good father. Knowing that may hurt, but it is real and a life lesson that needs to be learned. Not knowing that leaves children at risk for much deeper self doubt and insecurities about their own worth.

ShootingStar1

FireSprite

Just came back to add another thought for you jarp....

I know how much we hurt as parents when our kids are hurting like this & it seems so normal to stop it in whatever way we can. But even if you could make it happen *this* time, what about next time? Are you inadvertently teaching DS to look at the hardware store for bread by "making" AH talk to him? It seems like a simple, realistic expectation that your husband should be able to have a conversation with DS to help him with this transition (& accept responsibility for creating it)...... but we both know that in reality there is nothing normal in addiction, especially with the dual-diagnosis wild card.

Your husband is on an unpredictable spiral & you already know how bad it has gotten for him in the past (mentally speaking) so you also know he's not likely capable of getting on the phone with DS & being that guy that's been house-dad for the last bit. It could leave DS more confused than he already is.... he doesn't miss confused, overwhelmed & anxious dad - he misses the sober version of him that he's been getting to know.

As crap-tastic as it sounds, just like we can't throw ourselves in between an active addict & the consequences of their decisions, you can't throw yourself in front of this "consequence" for DS. Not completely, at least. You can minimize it as best you can & give (teach) him alternate forms (tools) of soothing & support. You can sit with him & talk all of it through over & over from every angle he wants to examine & assure him over & over a thousand times that he's not to blame & in no way deserves losing his father this way. (then go for ice cream!)

You won't be able to control how many times AH lets down or hurts DS but you definitely can expose him to proactive ways of managing it. He's obviously got a head-start because he's expressing himself to you really clearly for such a young kid. I'd let him keep writing letters & making pictures but not make any solid promises about when/if they'll be delivered to dad...... because you really DON'T know & the last thing you want is to make promises you can't keep & end up adding more fuel to the fire.

theuncertainty

I'm so sorry. I've gone through (and will probably end up going through more) similar situations with DS (now 10) and AXH. It's really hard. And it sucks. And it's not fair. And I hate it. We've left gatherings with friends because DS gets heartsick sometimes watching his friends and their dads sled/play/horse around and just shuts down. It's not the same if I try to do the same things the dads are doing with their kids with him. And it hurts. Every. Time.

As hard as it is when our children are hurting, I agree with the other posters that a call between your AH and DS may not be the best thing at this point.

AXH detoxed on his own before he went to rehab when DS was about 5+1/2. The dips-t came around our place towards the end of it to show how good he was doing. His exact words were "I'll be the first sober person to show up at rehab." Riiiight. Because *this* is what clean and sober looks like. He looked like complete and utter h***. He didn't always make much sense. Seeing what he looked like, I can completely understand why detoxing from "just" alcohol is so dangerous. I took him to lunch, just he and I, no DS. I didn't plan it that way, AXH just didn't ask and DS was playing with his cousins, and we needed to go over the health insurance info for rehab. As lunch progressed, I was happy DS wasn't there. And needed to go over the insurance information with his sister later because it didn't really help to go over it with him.

I really, really appreciate what FindingMe2 shared.

I think sitting down with DS and letting him write letters, make cards or draw pictures for his dad is awesome. And it's something he can do when ever he's thinking about his father.

((((hugs))))

jarp

Thank you all, you given me a good perspective.

I wont encourage AH to call DS. I was worried that if I didn't prompt him that AH would think that maybe he shouldn't call DS even if he wanted to. But that's rubbish....no one would ever need to give me permission to contact my kids if I were away from them, and he doesn't need permission either. He knows my number and when/ if he wants to work that relationship then he can do so. I believe he knows that as long as the situation is safe that I would not keep DS from him. He's seem me do this with my exH and my daughters.

I like the above - I'll use this as my script.

And in fact you have prompted a thought in me. My Dad wasn't an alcoholic, but did have autism and was also abusive. My Mum was constantly covering up for him and trying to force our relationship. I knew my Dad wasn't interested in me, and I just resented my Mum for making this more obvious to me by having me hear things like "it's your daughters birthday - make sure you say happy birthday".

I don't want o do the same to my ds.

redatlanta

I don't think anyone was suggesting you cover anything up for your son. Dad is sick. That's not making something up. Dad doesn't need your permission to call, you know this as you just said.

I think the advice from most is concerning the next couple of weeks of Detox and then entering into Rehab. My guess is your son is already aware of something not right given the history with your AH, and his move out of the home for a period of time at one point.

Writing and creativity is cathartic. To say that your son will be hurt if Dad doesn't respond depends on if dad really doesn't respond. Perhaps he will, I don't know. What I do know is kids are resilient, and it might comfort your son to send a card or letter. It may also stimulate your AH to pick up the phone.

Or, AH may not. We just don't know what the future holds. It sounds like your AH is quite close to your child, and I hope he will respond to him.

FeelingGreat

Your AH is probably ashamed of himself, and maybe his thinking is 'He's better off without me, they all are'. He might wonder what his reception would be if he calls. This will get worse the longer he leaves it.

If it were me, I would write and tell him his son misses him and would love to hear from him (sober). Assure him that although he has addiction problems you know he still has a lot to give as a father and you appreciate his past efforts. You will do whatever it takes to facilitate an ongoing relationship. Edit the above according to your circumstances.

This might give your AH the confidence to keep in touch with his son.