Hawk07

Hello all

I was a binge drinker and would drink non stop weekly every weekend. I am now 3 months sober and have never made it this long since trying to quit (2013).

I was just wondering if anyone has had experience with what I think is called the 'kindling effect' where in you stop drinking for a prolonged period and then start up again and end up with suddenly far worse withdrawals? Is that true from any ones experience?

Just to clarify I am not thinking about drinking again but I have had a few weak moments but did not cave. Guess I am just trying to build up any arsenal I can against ever drinking again. It was hell and I never want to forget that.

Justincredible

I've experienced this "kindling" where my hangovers have gotten progressivley worse, I guess that makes sense with alcohol being a progressive disease. I've also experienced this with the benzos. I've heard people mention that they know they have one more drunk left in them but are not sure if they have another recovery. That resonates with me because this last time quitting for me is my LAST time quitting because the withdrawals were just too brutal.

Congrats on the 3 months sober that is a major accomplishment!

Aellyce

I think I experienced it. My hangovers/withdrawals had become increasingly worse over time, although not in a linear fashion. For a long time, I was a daily drinker and could still get up and mind my business (kind of) the day after even after bad binges. But in the last year before I quit, I could no longer do this... I needed at least two days to recuperate just to be able to get out of the house, and I had awful withdrawal symptoms, getting worse and worse over time. I believe my general health was also affected quite a lot by then, so that must have contributed to all this, but all-in-all, I definitely experienced the worsening of withdrawals with time, probably in that last year especially as my drinking then was typically 2-3 day benders alternating with a couple days no drinking, and this many many times, so I guess I went through full blown withdrawal countless times. I would never want to experience that again!

Good job on 3 months, keep it up!

Thepatman

Unfortunately yes I have.

Each detox worst each time. Last one was brutal enough for my slow to get it mind to realize this is it for me. Never going back to this living hell.

Soberwolf

Hi Hawk07 read this http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...lly-again.html

Hopefully this helps

Tang

Yes - if I have even one or two beers now I get a severe hangover (even with drinking lots of water). I don't know that there is a way to prove it is kindling. Just another sign that some of us are not wired to drink.

upminer

same here when I stopped for a bit a few years ago and went out and had only 4 beers I paid for it severely the next day you'd think I would have learned then lol....

Ethos23

My last binge ended with me going to detox. I left early (really bad choice). I spent the next 4-5 days in living hell 24 hours a day. On pins-and-needles all day, anxiety, sweating, upset stomach, hungry, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep hardly at all, had two night terrors where I woke up drenched in sweat, dizzy, and thought I was dying.

Progressive . . . yes. Hell . . . yes. Again . . . NO!!!!

Jupiters

I did.
I was 6.5 months sober (not my longest period of sobriety either) - from May until the end of November when I went on a trip to Cuba.
I didn't drink much - a few glasses of wine then stopped b/c I just wasn't enjoying it. I felt gross and I knew I didn't want to drink anymore.
The hangover I had the next day from those few glasses was wretched. I may as well have drank 4 bottles, that's how bad it was.
No thanks.

Hawk07

I started binge drinking on the weekends around 7-8 years ago with the amount of alcohol progressively increasing and withdrawals progressively getting worse. Towards the end I had moved on to vodka and was experiencing shaking hands, crippling anxiety and panic attacks at the drop of a pin and they started lasting longer and longer after each binge. I couldn't even leave the house for around 2-3 days after a binge.. Then once that was over hello insomnia for a couple weeks. It was awful. So perhaps I was already experiencing kindling on some level. I have this feeling that if I picked up again I would be thrown back into that hell on a much worse level then ever before.

All the more reason not to drink.
Thanks for sharing everyone. Soberwolf, I'll read that, thank you.

Aellyce

That is quite likely, and only worse would be to come. Please don't even consider picking up again.

heartcore

I don't know about hangovers as kindling (because I've only gotten a few hangovers in my life; it just isn't how my body reacts), but as someone who has spent her entire adult life moving in and out of sobriety/the program, I can say with certainty that each time I chose to drink again/leave sobriety, my inner fire died just a bit. Ultimately, there was just a tiny burning ember left to blow on. Each time I have returned to the program/sobriety, it has taken more grit and despair to relight my enthusiasm.

The way I interpret the phenomena of kindling is that:
a) the body is thirsty for health, really. Any experience of sobriety is going to create a more stark contrast to the unhealthy feelings that accompany the use of alcohol. Alcohol is a poison to the body, especially the liver, and we build tolerance and acceptance of walking around with daily poisoning symptoms. When sober for any length of time, such powerful poisoning symptoms are more noticeable and unacceptable!
b) I believe there is a psychological component (as I mentioned above). No matter how your physical body manifests the experience of "being poisoned," the poisoning of hope that accompanies drinking again impacts us energetically, and thus weakens our power in a physical way...

Deleteda

Hi Hawk I'm at three months too and even though I'm not going to drink my Av is shouting loud and clear just now
Kindling yes absolutely, I've experienced it every time I've relapsed, I've had a bit of a pattern over the last year of relapsing at around this point and yes the withdrawal has gotten way worse. I've got to the stage now that it takes me about a week to even leave the house now. Your post has been a great reminder for me X

PurpleKnight

3 Months is fantastic!! Keep pushing through!!

Niamh

I did experience this too. It was the final straw for me. I can't even believe how horrible withdrawals were. I thought I was dying. Going crazy. Man, it was terrifying. And they only got worse. I drank alone. I suffered through those wracking days and nights of terror withdrawals alone. I could have died alone. I'm telling anyone who's reading this who wants to stop drinking, do it now. Save yourself what I put myself through.

Fly N Buy

Not personally, no.

But from others who's opinions I trust - yes, real indeed. Enough to be a constant reminder to this ole ex drinker!

livinginhope

I think it is true in my case. I've went through recoveries before, and they seem to be worse each time. This one (36 days sober) has been the worst. I wasn't even drinking all that heavily this time around either. I was rarely getting drunk. The thing is, I continued to build up a dependency on alcohol.

I can't go back. I cannot put myself through this again. Or, more probably, even worse next time if I were to fall back into drinking.

chickippo

what Niamh said. very much this.

Andante

Alcohol "kindling" refers to withdrawal symptoms that worsen markedly with each detox once alcohol dependence has been established. It’s about permanent changes to some people’s brain "wiring" (for lack of a more precise term) as a result of multiple withdrawals from alcohol. The changes are progressive and do not reverse with abstinent time. When used in this way, the term "kindling" is a purely physiological process and has little to do with attitude or psychology.

For me at least, there’s also a distinct difference between "hangover" and "withdrawal."

I was once a normal social drinker and got typical hangovers from overindulgence. The symptoms were the ones familiar to any casual drinker who overindulges: headache, dry mouth, nausea, hypersensitivity to noise and light.

Over time, with consistent drinking of excessive amounts, I didn't get hangovers anymore. There was a sort of "sweet spot" for a few years of my drinking where I didn't seem to suffer any consequences. I could take days off and experience no ill effects.

After a few more years of drinking, however, this changed. Instead of classic "hangovers," I began to suffer from withdrawal symptoms during periods that I didn’t drink: shakiness, muscle tension, agitation, anxiety, depression, cognitive and memory impairment, and a duller, longer-lasting sort of headache.

As time passed and I still didn't quit drinking, these symptoms grew markedly worse. In fact, ironically, my efforts to quit exacerbated them because I became more of a binge drinker, thus putting me through withdrawal more often. Even when I succeeded in staying away from alcohol for months at a time, even one bender would result in withdrawal symptoms which were as bad or worse than any I had experienced before. They would also last a lot longer each time. Today, although I’m at nearly 2 years sober, I’m still not entirely free of them. This to me is "kindling."

anattaboy

Yes ....and No. I was very aware I could die this last time as I was an around-the-clock drinker and a lot of it (30+ units per day) so I tapered. It was surprisingly event free. Sketchy sleep for 2 nights and some unresolved GI issues (probably more from the constant drinking than the quitting). I took a lot of supplements depleted by alcohol also and believe it helped. It was damage control for me. Head and body were messed up enough from the drinking--didn't want to lose anymore. 5 years ago I tried cold turkey and didn't sleep at all, had extreme paranoia, delusions, sweats and shakes for 3 days and drank on day 5. Never again will I have to do either. The detox center I was trying to get into last Feb wanted me at least 8 hrs. w/out so I would have symptoms. I was not able to go 6 w/out serious WD. That was when I started researching. In late may I started and on june 11th it was a done deal. Tapering saved my life.