messing with my head
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messing with my head
We still talk, but don't see each other much and we are not intimate anymore. That day may come again if he takes action....he knows this.
Sometimes, I feel that a breakthrough is coming, like he gets it. He will agree that I'm making sense. Then he turns around and decides to change his mind...merry go round, in circles.
I feel like he's messing with my head sometimes. He'll say that he loves and adores me and wants this to work and that he's going to get himself straight. Then he turns around and says that I am going to cause him to feel differently, if I don't stop with my boundaries regarding his drinking. Then he'll say that I'll be alone forever, if I don't let this go. Then he'll keep reminding me of my age.
So, on one hand he's trying make me feel badly about myself; then he builds me back up by saying how much he loves me.
The next thing he does is work on my guilt. He says how could I put up walls and barriers against him, when he can't help it; that he has a disease.
why can't I just overlook his flaws ; acts like I'm too critical (regarding his drinking).
I try to protect my feelings, but I start to feel guilty (like I'm hurting him) and afraid of being alone (just like he says). I'm trying to be tough and recognize what he's doing.
It's deflecting and using manipulation, right?
Sometimes, I feel that a breakthrough is coming, like he gets it. He will agree that I'm making sense. Then he turns around and decides to change his mind...merry go round, in circles.
I feel like he's messing with my head sometimes. He'll say that he loves and adores me and wants this to work and that he's going to get himself straight. Then he turns around and says that I am going to cause him to feel differently, if I don't stop with my boundaries regarding his drinking. Then he'll say that I'll be alone forever, if I don't let this go. Then he'll keep reminding me of my age.
So, on one hand he's trying make me feel badly about myself; then he builds me back up by saying how much he loves me.
The next thing he does is work on my guilt. He says how could I put up walls and barriers against him, when he can't help it; that he has a disease.
why can't I just overlook his flaws ; acts like I'm too critical (regarding his drinking).
I try to protect my feelings, but I start to feel guilty (like I'm hurting him) and afraid of being alone (just like he says). I'm trying to be tough and recognize what he's doing.
It's deflecting and using manipulation, right?
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It's mental abuse. Dated someone like that for 4 years. We broke up ONLY because he had to marry the girl he got pregnant while WE were engaged.
No contact is a good option. Oh and finding support at an Alanon meeting.
No contact is a good option. Oh and finding support at an Alanon meeting.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Just business as usual for an addict carmen.
He manipulates, and you keep listening.
Why don't you try something different, like going No Contact until he
has gotten real sober time and is working a program?
Drop the rope and see what happens
He manipulates, and you keep listening.
Why don't you try something different, like going No Contact until he
has gotten real sober time and is working a program?
Drop the rope and see what happens
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Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Originally Posted by carmen303 
It's deflecting and using manipulation, right?
Try to remember, he does not want to change.
If you change, things change. If things change, he might have to change. He will do or say whatever he has to do to maintain the status quo and to keep from having to change. He's afraid and lashing out, trying whatever might bring you back into line, lobbing grenades every which way.
You do not have to place yourself in the line of fire.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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Hi
my ex used to do this to me, at one point he was really sweet and charming and then he`d be critical of me and say things to put me down! I felt very confused, and almost like I needed his attention!
The moment I went no-contact I realised he was putting me down in a weird cycle of abuse (still baffles me sometimes), but I am picking myself back up, focusing on studies/new business/ even new clothes! You are worth much more than someone putting you down, and the moment you stop listening to him you will feel a million dollars in time :-)
and yes it is manipulation!
my ex used to do this to me, at one point he was really sweet and charming and then he`d be critical of me and say things to put me down! I felt very confused, and almost like I needed his attention!
The moment I went no-contact I realised he was putting me down in a weird cycle of abuse (still baffles me sometimes), but I am picking myself back up, focusing on studies/new business/ even new clothes! You are worth much more than someone putting you down, and the moment you stop listening to him you will feel a million dollars in time :-)
and yes it is manipulation!
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carmen303...these kinds of comments....regardless of where they are coming from....are abusive. He is willing to wound you in order to keep you from bothering his freedom to drink. You do not matter to him as much as his drink.
As for being alone...I will wager that you have felt alone, already, for a l ong time. Nothing feel so desolate or lonely as to be deliberately hurt by those who are supposed to love us. Nothing.
I hope that you DO come to realize what he is doing...and, even more importantly, what you are doing to yourself by staying around this.
Honey, there is no "breakthrough" coming. He is drinking and alcoholism only gets worse unless there is genuine recovery. This is as good as it gets.
I would suggest that you might read "The Saber-toothed Tiger". You can get it very cheaply on Amazon. It deals with this very issue. I think it will resonate,quite a bit, with you.
I don't care what you age is..I gurantee that there are lots of men who would cherish you--rather than try to hurt you. But, you are not going to find them as long as your eyes are directed on him.
Love is not supposed to hurt. It is supposed to enrich our lives.
dandylion
As for being alone...I will wager that you have felt alone, already, for a l ong time. Nothing feel so desolate or lonely as to be deliberately hurt by those who are supposed to love us. Nothing.
I hope that you DO come to realize what he is doing...and, even more importantly, what you are doing to yourself by staying around this.
Honey, there is no "breakthrough" coming. He is drinking and alcoholism only gets worse unless there is genuine recovery. This is as good as it gets.
I would suggest that you might read "The Saber-toothed Tiger". You can get it very cheaply on Amazon. It deals with this very issue. I think it will resonate,quite a bit, with you.
I don't care what you age is..I gurantee that there are lots of men who would cherish you--rather than try to hurt you. But, you are not going to find them as long as your eyes are directed on him.
Love is not supposed to hurt. It is supposed to enrich our lives.
dandylion
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Thanks guys
It can be so confusing; the reason we are still taking is because he can be so charming, funny, sweet, kind and acting like a best friend.
However, he knows that I have these parameters, which he seems to hope I'll change. When he feels resistance, he throws in little jabs that hurt. If I tell him it's mean, he says I'm oversensitive.
He tells me he's committed to me and I do enjoy talking with him, but that's it, we don't see each other anymore.
He says I'm blowing it way out of proportion and magnifying the situation. He says that if I don't learn how to bend a little, that I'll be alone forever (but, he says that he won't be alone)... He slurs his words every night by 8pm( from wine); is that blowing it out of proportion?
On new years, we planned to see each other briefly. He was slurring, and unsteady...and I was very disappointed. This is why it was brief.
I said I won't go with him anywhere (friend's gatherings, etc...) where drinking is involved. He said that I'll be really lonely the rest of my life if I have those conditions.
I enjoy our conversations but inevitably it always turns back to our relationship and where it's going, which is uncomfortable, because he's not fixing the problem.
How do you go no contact with someone that you feel close to? what do you say, how does it start? I'm just so stuck right now.
It can be so confusing; the reason we are still taking is because he can be so charming, funny, sweet, kind and acting like a best friend.
However, he knows that I have these parameters, which he seems to hope I'll change. When he feels resistance, he throws in little jabs that hurt. If I tell him it's mean, he says I'm oversensitive.
He tells me he's committed to me and I do enjoy talking with him, but that's it, we don't see each other anymore.
He says I'm blowing it way out of proportion and magnifying the situation. He says that if I don't learn how to bend a little, that I'll be alone forever (but, he says that he won't be alone)... He slurs his words every night by 8pm( from wine); is that blowing it out of proportion?
On new years, we planned to see each other briefly. He was slurring, and unsteady...and I was very disappointed. This is why it was brief.
I said I won't go with him anywhere (friend's gatherings, etc...) where drinking is involved. He said that I'll be really lonely the rest of my life if I have those conditions.
I enjoy our conversations but inevitably it always turns back to our relationship and where it's going, which is uncomfortable, because he's not fixing the problem.
How do you go no contact with someone that you feel close to? what do you say, how does it start? I'm just so stuck right now.
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carmen....I suspect that you may have some trauma bonding with him. You may need to come to recognize that you are wanting healing and comfort from the very person that is doing the wounding. this is the kind of emotional dilemma that can make you feel "Krazy".
Like in the saying: "Don't go to the hardware store for a loaf of bread".
In relationships where o ne person is dishing out hurt....interspersed with periods of nice....realize that you are not getting the "nice" for free, or naturally, like in healthy relationships where there is no abuse.
You have to suffer the pain of the bad times to be allowed to have the good. That is the thing that keeps us hooked.
This man has NOTHING to offer that you can't get other places in this world.
Think about that for a minute.
He is trying to make you think he has...and, he will keep trying to sell you this bill of goods as long as you keep "buying".
Hon, you really need support to help you to move forward in your life. this is awfully hard to do alone....
dandylion
***you might want to read that book that I suggested...it addresses this issue
Like in the saying: "Don't go to the hardware store for a loaf of bread".
In relationships where o ne person is dishing out hurt....interspersed with periods of nice....realize that you are not getting the "nice" for free, or naturally, like in healthy relationships where there is no abuse.
You have to suffer the pain of the bad times to be allowed to have the good. That is the thing that keeps us hooked.
This man has NOTHING to offer that you can't get other places in this world.
Think about that for a minute.
He is trying to make you think he has...and, he will keep trying to sell you this bill of goods as long as you keep "buying".
Hon, you really need support to help you to move forward in your life. this is awfully hard to do alone....
dandylion
***you might want to read that book that I suggested...it addresses this issue
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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How about "you have the right to live you life with alcohol, and I have the right to live my life without dealing with someone's alcohol issues. I can't keep waiting for an impossible situation to resolve itself, so I'm moving on and changing my number so that we both can have what we want. Peace to you, but do not contact me again because this is my decision."
Or something along those lines. And do change your number, and do not respond to any attempts on his side to "discuss" it. You've had years to talk, and nothing has really changed with his drinking, and that is the dealbreaker.
Stick to it and change your routine--do things that make you happy and move on.
Maybe a dance or yoga class, or join a hiking club. Healthy things that involve healthy people.
P.S. I agree with dandy that some therapy sessions and support would be very helpful if you can do it.
Or something along those lines. And do change your number, and do not respond to any attempts on his side to "discuss" it. You've had years to talk, and nothing has really changed with his drinking, and that is the dealbreaker.
Stick to it and change your routine--do things that make you happy and move on.
Maybe a dance or yoga class, or join a hiking club. Healthy things that involve healthy people.
P.S. I agree with dandy that some therapy sessions and support would be very helpful if you can do it.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by carmen303
Thanks guys
It can be so confusing; the reason we are still taking is because he can be so charming, funny, sweet, kind and acting like a best friend.
How do you go no contact with someone that you feel close to? what do you say, how does it start? I'm just so stuck right now.
It can be so confusing; the reason we are still taking is because he can be so charming, funny, sweet, kind and acting like a best friend.
How do you go no contact with someone that you feel close to? what do you say, how does it start? I'm just so stuck right now.
Regarding your last paragraph, I am not sure how I can help except to "just do it". Sometimes we are so caught up in getting it right or getting it perfect that we are frozen in place, the result being complete inaction. Obviously that is not the path to no contact. So just go for it. Just say what's in your heart, just do what you feel is right. I think you do know that he is mentally abusing you and you have to break free, but you are also I am sure scared and uncertain about so many things. It IS ok. You WILL BE ok. You just need to take that first step.
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I've been getting stronger regarding all of this, because of all the advice I've received here. I've taken actions and made changes, but yes, I have become stuck in my communications with him. I never want to hurt people I care about, so I get stuck. Meanwhile, I'm so worried for my future.
I feel guilty about the idea of meeting another man, when he keeps telling me that he's going to get himself straight for me. I want him to get well, but even if he does, it doesn't solve everything; I don't know what will or won't change in his behaviors if he's sober. He may have bipolar. It's all so complex. I want to be free of this, but don't want to abandon him either.
He told me tonight that he is going to check himself into a facility this week, where they hold him isolated from alcohol for 3 days. I don't know if he's making this up or what. He wants me to drive him there, to show me he's going.
How do I know if the kind things he says are manipulations or genuine; I just don't ever know for sure and I guess the mean comments are either his drinking, bipolar or a way to knock me down, since he feels so bad about his problem.
I feel guilty about the idea of meeting another man, when he keeps telling me that he's going to get himself straight for me. I want him to get well, but even if he does, it doesn't solve everything; I don't know what will or won't change in his behaviors if he's sober. He may have bipolar. It's all so complex. I want to be free of this, but don't want to abandon him either.
He told me tonight that he is going to check himself into a facility this week, where they hold him isolated from alcohol for 3 days. I don't know if he's making this up or what. He wants me to drive him there, to show me he's going.
How do I know if the kind things he says are manipulations or genuine; I just don't ever know for sure and I guess the mean comments are either his drinking, bipolar or a way to knock me down, since he feels so bad about his problem.
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Originally Posted by carmen303
he'll say that I'll be alone forever, if I don't let this go. Then he'll keep reminding me of my age.
Funny thing is, once we broke up, I created an online dating profile and had I wanted to, I could have gone out on a flipping date every single night. I had so many messages and txts on my phone, I took the online dating profile down and decided that I need to work on myself and just meet someone in real life. He also eluded to the fact that I was 'old'. I consider myself to be quite beautiful, energetic, smart AND i have an awesome career at the ripe 'ol age of 39. I actually am talking to a super sweet guy who is 34 and thinks I am awesome. I am taking things slow to say the least.
Story posted on my FB page by a high school friend congratulating her 79 year old mother for meeting someone online and is getting married again to a wonderful man. Love has no age limits. There are plenty of single people in every age bracket. He is trying to control you by making you feel bad about yourself IMO.
I finally decided that I was going to help myself and clear my own mind. My xABF certainly was no help in doing that. Since he has moved out, my DS5 has been behaving 10x better. He is not acting out. He is learning empathy. He isn't treating me how his dad did.
I was confused for quite awhile after the xABF moved out. Of course, I had feelings for him. I still do. I love him and care for him as a human being. I even told him that 'maybe' we could work things out if he'd consider working together on our relationship. He spent about 10 days in the household. In that time he berated me, accused me of cheating, pee'd down my staircase, stumbled around the house drunk, and I found beer cans hidden in the strangest places. I had a what in the WORLD moment in my own head about myself. Why would I let him do this to me again after 5 months of solace and peace? I decided once and for all that I am done, done, done. Too much water under the bridge. Too many broken promises. Relationships do take some work but they shouldn't age a person and make them broken.
Just my .02.
[/QUOTE]
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Thanks, Chron. Sorry to hear that you went through that. What an eye opener for you. What makes it so tough is that if they always acted like that, it would be easy to say "enough", but when you see their sweet side and normalcy resurface, it's so easy to tell ourselves that we are over magnifying the situation. Like you said, I've mentioned to him that relationships are challenging enough without adding addition/alcohol into the mix.
Now that he's told me that he's going to enter this rehab thing, I'm wondering if it sound familiar to anyone .... 3 days of isolation from alcohol at a charge of $400 and their done with him. How could that help long term? Are their facilities that do that?
Now that he's told me that he's going to enter this rehab thing, I'm wondering if it sound familiar to anyone .... 3 days of isolation from alcohol at a charge of $400 and their done with him. How could that help long term? Are their facilities that do that?
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Yes, there are facilities that do that with an outpatient program set up as aftercare.
I agree with all the above.
NC, is simple to.put in place. You DO NOT owe an explanation. Not at all. Simply stop answering the phone, emails, or texts. You have stated your boundaries many times. On occasion NC works toward dropping them on their rock bottom so look.at it like your doing him a favor. NC is sooo much more beneficial to you though. YOU have no way of objectively looking at the big picture when you are in the middle of it. Every day that is NC is another day forward away from the merry go round.
His desire for treatment....i told mine I wouldn't drive him there and I didn't. IF he wants it, he will find a way. If you are NC And he gets sober he will show up at your door to announce it.
I know the loneliness. I know how you feel he needs a friend. He needs your help. BUT he doesn't. It is a very hard lesson to learn to just let them go, but neither you or him can grow in this situation if someone doesn't start making the changes. Why not let it start with you? You aren't in the hands of addiction so put on your wings and fly. You are the one with the clear head to make the best decisions for you. As for him, he will figure it out or he won't. Not your problem. Let your HP handle him <3
I agree with all the above.
NC, is simple to.put in place. You DO NOT owe an explanation. Not at all. Simply stop answering the phone, emails, or texts. You have stated your boundaries many times. On occasion NC works toward dropping them on their rock bottom so look.at it like your doing him a favor. NC is sooo much more beneficial to you though. YOU have no way of objectively looking at the big picture when you are in the middle of it. Every day that is NC is another day forward away from the merry go round.
His desire for treatment....i told mine I wouldn't drive him there and I didn't. IF he wants it, he will find a way. If you are NC And he gets sober he will show up at your door to announce it.
I know the loneliness. I know how you feel he needs a friend. He needs your help. BUT he doesn't. It is a very hard lesson to learn to just let them go, but neither you or him can grow in this situation if someone doesn't start making the changes. Why not let it start with you? You aren't in the hands of addiction so put on your wings and fly. You are the one with the clear head to make the best decisions for you. As for him, he will figure it out or he won't. Not your problem. Let your HP handle him <3
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That is verbal abuse. In making boundaries you show strength for yourself which is a threat to him, so he wants to beat you back down with fear. Pathetic.
Don't fall for it honey. Also don't fall for a detox. There is a lot more to recovery than a couple of days of detox.
Don't fall for it honey. Also don't fall for a detox. There is a lot more to recovery than a couple of days of detox.
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carmen....It sounds more like a detox (detoxification) facility.....not a rehabilitation facility.
detox just gets them "sober"....gets the alcohol out of their blood and, hopefully, gets them physically stable. HOWEVER, it can take longer than 3 days to get someone out of the woods, physically. they can still go into DTs and have seizures, etc. after 3days, depending on the individual...and how h ard and l ong they have been drinking.
Rehabilitation takes longer....depending on the facility and insurance, etc. Usually 30 to 90 days in most places.
Both detox and rehab are just steps preparing them for RECOVERY. Sober is not the same as authentic recovery(changing one's life). The has to be a program that they follow vigorously. Alcoholism is for life--unless arrested by TOTAL SOBRIETY.
Hon, you DO realize that you have inside problems that need attention....just as he does....don't you?
dandylion
detox just gets them "sober"....gets the alcohol out of their blood and, hopefully, gets them physically stable. HOWEVER, it can take longer than 3 days to get someone out of the woods, physically. they can still go into DTs and have seizures, etc. after 3days, depending on the individual...and how h ard and l ong they have been drinking.
Rehabilitation takes longer....depending on the facility and insurance, etc. Usually 30 to 90 days in most places.
Both detox and rehab are just steps preparing them for RECOVERY. Sober is not the same as authentic recovery(changing one's life). The has to be a program that they follow vigorously. Alcoholism is for life--unless arrested by TOTAL SOBRIETY.
Hon, you DO realize that you have inside problems that need attention....just as he does....don't you?
dandylion
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Dandy, I'm not sure what my "inside problem" is. I guess it's the desire to find a partner (that does not have this issue), but at the same time, I tend to be a "helper" to others, sometimes at my own expense.
I'm working toward the NC idea. Not sure how I'm going to do it. I feel like the time will reveal itself when the time is right...I hope.
Regarding any future together...I hate to say never; the end. Once I've been close, I feel like saying, if things change, if you make it 6 months, etc..... I used to think that would work, but I've read so much about relapse, it sounds like sobriety may not be the end. Plus, if he has bipolar, he might continue the inappropriate behaviors that bother me so much.
I did tell him that he has to do AA too. He hates AA. He did say "no" to anymore AA. He went once with me and that was it. His energy is too hyper to sit through meetings and he can't focus, but I KNOW that he needs a sponsor to get better and I don't think there's any other way to get one.
I'm working toward the NC idea. Not sure how I'm going to do it. I feel like the time will reveal itself when the time is right...I hope.
Regarding any future together...I hate to say never; the end. Once I've been close, I feel like saying, if things change, if you make it 6 months, etc..... I used to think that would work, but I've read so much about relapse, it sounds like sobriety may not be the end. Plus, if he has bipolar, he might continue the inappropriate behaviors that bother me so much.
I did tell him that he has to do AA too. He hates AA. He did say "no" to anymore AA. He went once with me and that was it. His energy is too hyper to sit through meetings and he can't focus, but I KNOW that he needs a sponsor to get better and I don't think there's any other way to get one.
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So, on one hand he's trying make me feel badly about myself
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There's a lot of focus on HIM and what HE needs to do to get better. I did the same the with my ex. In my mind his drinking was THE problem and if he would just go to detox and rehab and AA and get sober then everything would be almost perfect.
I was blind to my contribution to the issues in our relationship. I was just trying to help him, but by sticking around and putting up with his unacceptable behavior, I was tacitly condoning it. Sure I ran my mouth and made threats, "If you don't get sober, I'll blah, blah, blah." But I never took any action to back them up, so he knew he could just keep doing whatever he wanted.
By remaining in contact with him, you are keeping the door open to his manipulation and verbal and emotional abuse. By talking to him when he's drunk, you are condoning that behavior as well.
If he really, truly wants sobriety and is not just telling you what you want to hear to appease you, then he will do it for himself. AA isn't the only game in town, and a three day detox is not recovery.
If you really want positive changes in your life, then you can do things differently as well. You can do a temporary no contact. Say a month to start. 30 days. It will be hard, but you are asking him to give up alcohol forever, so maybe give him a chance to think about what he really wants without you trying to pull him in a certain direction. During that 30 days, hit some Alanon meetings. You want him to go to AA and get a sponsor. Couples I know who are successful in recovery have one partner in each program working on their own stuff.
You are asking a lot from him. Are you willing to do things differently?
I was blind to my contribution to the issues in our relationship. I was just trying to help him, but by sticking around and putting up with his unacceptable behavior, I was tacitly condoning it. Sure I ran my mouth and made threats, "If you don't get sober, I'll blah, blah, blah." But I never took any action to back them up, so he knew he could just keep doing whatever he wanted.
By remaining in contact with him, you are keeping the door open to his manipulation and verbal and emotional abuse. By talking to him when he's drunk, you are condoning that behavior as well.
If he really, truly wants sobriety and is not just telling you what you want to hear to appease you, then he will do it for himself. AA isn't the only game in town, and a three day detox is not recovery.
If you really want positive changes in your life, then you can do things differently as well. You can do a temporary no contact. Say a month to start. 30 days. It will be hard, but you are asking him to give up alcohol forever, so maybe give him a chance to think about what he really wants without you trying to pull him in a certain direction. During that 30 days, hit some Alanon meetings. You want him to go to AA and get a sponsor. Couples I know who are successful in recovery have one partner in each program working on their own stuff.
You are asking a lot from him. Are you willing to do things differently?
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Originally Posted by carmen303
I try to protect my feelings
When I left AXH, it was so we could work on our own issues and then try to start over. I told him that. I told myself that. And that's OK. It got me to a point where I could start to look at things in a different light.
No contact forever is a hard idea to swallow, I know. I had to break it down I to smaller increments. And I mean smaller. I started out with just trying to not respond to his calls or texts or e-mails for 5 or 10 minutes. I'd distract myself with something: clean the bathroom, hand wash the dishes... After a while the urge to respond was gone by the time I did my chore or wrote in my journal for x minutes. I'd step up the time.
Then I'd try to ignore the stuff that didn't need an answer and only respond to what did: in my case: visitation or stuff about DS. And not all of the stuff he sent about DS needed a response. I couldn't do it at first. I asked my sister to review the correspondence and tell me what needed a response. There was very little.
So, don't worry about going no contact forever. Just get through the next few weeks, or days, or hours, or minutes. Get through enough of those to get the time you need to gain enough distance to see things a bit clearer, to heal.
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