iSPAZ

Most of you probably know my story by now so I will cut straight to the chase. I have been in Al-anon for about three years now. Yes it has helped me. Yes I am doing much better. No I no longer try to control the actions of someone out of control. I believe now that I did not cause it, I can not control it and I can not cure it. Also I am detached as humanly possible considering we had children together. Often in meetings and in the Al-anon literature as well as going to open AA meetings I am infused with information that alcoholism is a disease. Yes I believe there is some underlying mental disorder or chemical imbalance. But when I hear it compared to some kid with a brain tumor or leukemia. Compared to someone with diabetes or genetic illness that a person had absolutely no control over what so ever it makes my blood boil. I get angry looks and eye rolling when I share my experiences. I in all my attempts of understanding I just can not get my head around how someone who makes a conscious decision to drive to the liquor store or bar, take in most cases their families money and purchase their drink of choice and pour it down their throat until they are intoxicated to the point of blackout is a disease to be compared to the others previously mentioned. Please tell me how this is a disease! Yes I understand that when it is treated as a disease (if ever acknowledged) there can be a higher rate of recovery.
Also I understand or have been told that there is a tremendous amount of guilt felt by the alcoholic. If this is so why would someone who is afflicted with this disease continuously post on social media their drinking adventures. Unless there truly is no guilt. I do not see sex addicts posting their adventures. I don't see drug addicts posting their adventure. I don't see pedophiles posting their laundry. I do see loved ones that have been told by countless people they have a huge alcohol problem proudly posting their drunkenness. Maybe my brain is not able to process something so complex or maybe there is no guilt until the house come crumbling down. I appreciate your input.

Bullfrog

I consider it a disease in that, if left untreated, it continues to seep forward and destroy anything/everyone it touches. I also believe that the alcohol is just a symptom of a deeper issue: a soul sickness. In those ways, I am fully in agreement with AA and Al-Anon.

However, no, I do not agree with the comparisons to diabetes or cancer and the like. I also find that insulting, especially to victims of those diseases.

FlippedRHalo

I just posted expressing the same frustration in it being called a disease. While I can understand why in one aspect, I can't in another. You can make a choice to rid yourself of this disease any time you want. You can not make a choice to rid yourself of cancer any time you want.

Thank you for your explanation Bullfrog, that does make sense to me. It certainly does seep forward and destroy everyone it touches, unfortunately.

Slothy

This is a tough one for me. I see my exabf's problem as a disease because I think it helps me depersonalize all the hurt it caused me. Whenever I get stuck on being sad or angry...Its so much easier to say he's just a sick diseased man with a diseased soul and body and that's that. But your right, there is no comparison to a disease like cancer!!!

I do often think though, how is it that some people get so so so addicted? Is there a physiological genetic predisposition? Or is it just a weakness??

LifeRecovery

I do consider it to be a disease. I am very careful though with any disease to say that a person is living with diabetes (for example) or is living with addiction. For me using the word diabetic or alcoholic often tries to "label" the person as their disease. Not all diseases are the same, and we don't treat them the same.

Diabetes is a disease that people are pre-disposed by genetics, age, and in some instance lifestyle behaviors and choices.

In the early stages people with diabetes don't feel bad....it is kind of a silent threat that way. Many people don't know they have it because it is so insidious. I feel addiction is similar in early stages.

Diabetes is not a disease that can be cured at this time, but it is a disease that can be managed and kept in good control. A person living with diabetes can choose to take their medications, get help with their food choices and continue/begin regular activity. Another choice a person with diabetes has is to hide behind it, not get support/help and continue with other behaviors that can cause the disease to progress and create complications. They recommend regular check ups and education to help with management.

Though not all diseases can be "managed" like diabetes I think addiction is similar. It is a disease that we may have a pre-disposition toward, but it is ours what we choose to do with it (and acknowledging it is a big first step).

I also learned and did better with the disease model when I started looking at what disease meant in the dictionary. I started calling it dis-ease also which helped.

NOUN
a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury:
synonyms: illness · sickness · ill health · infection · ailment · malady ·
disorder · complaint · affliction · condition · indisposition · upset · problem · trouble · infirmity · disability · defect · abnormality · pestilence · plague · cancer · canker · blight · bug · virus · contagion
More•a particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people:

Impurrfect

iSPAZ - I'm a double winner and also had problems with the disease theory. However, I just buried a dear friend who continued to smoke after a heart attack and died of lung cancer. My dad is overweight, has high blood pressure and blood sugar issues (borderline diabetes) but does NOTHING to help himself? Is it a disease or frame of mind? I don't honestly know.

What I will tell you is that you will NEVER understand addiction unless you become an addict. You will work yourself into a frenzy, trying, but never get it. I truly pray you don't get it.

I know addiction inside and out, but I couldn't stop my stepmom from dying of an OD last year - she didn't want to hear what recovery had taught me.

I still have loved ones who are struggling with addiction. I've had to stop asking "WHY don't they just get it?!?!" and accept that they just aren't there, yet, and may never be.

I had to stop focusing on them and focus on me. I'm one person and I have one life, as do you. Yes, it hurts and is frustrating. Still, I have one damned life and it's up to me to live it.

I messed up, I hit bottom, and I found recovery. I can't make others choose the same path.

I'm not saying your concerns aren't valid, I'm just saying that whether someone says it's a disease or not, you still have YOUR life to live.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

cynical one

The medical community has labeled addiction/alcoholism as a “brain disease” like Alzheimer’s or dementia are brain diseases. Diabetes is a metabolic disease, and cancer is a disease of abnormal cell growth. Other then lifestyle choices possibly leading to getting these diseases- the symptoms, pathophysiology, treatment, and possible cures are vastly different. I would be wary of any information you read or hear that compares
them.

Gorski explains the Disease Model well, IMO.
The Disease Model of Addiction

Hangnbyathread

There is a definite genetic link to alcoholism. So the pre-disposition to always want it is the disease. And the effects it has on them are certainly different than the effects it has on me. So I'd buy that this is a disease or defect at the least. So there is a physical aspect to us as individuals that make us more or less susceptible.

But I don't support the "There is no cure part" If they don't take in the chemical they won't have the affects of it. So that is the "lack" of the disease. But it is a lifestyle choice they have to make. And their first 5 out of 6 choices will always be to have it.

AnvilheadII

An excerpt from It Works How and Why, Narcotics Anonymous:

As addicts, we have each experienced the pain, loneliness, and despair of addiction. Before coming to NA, most of us tried everything we could think of to control our use of drugs. We tried switching drugs, thinking that we only had a problem with one particular drug. We tried limiting our drug use to certain times or places. We may even have vowed to stop using altogether at a certain point. We may have told ourselves we would never do the things we watched other addicts do, then found ourselves doing those very things. Nothing we tried had any lasting effect. Our active addiction continued to progress, overpowering even our best intentions. Alone, terrified of what the future held for us, we found the Fellowship of Narcotics Anonymous.

As members of Narcotics Anonymous, our experience is that addiction is a progressive disease. The progression may be rapid or slow, but it is always downhill. As long as we are using drugs, our lives will steadily get worse. It would be impossible to precisely describe addiction in a way that is agreeable to everyone. However, the disease seems to affect us in the following general ways. Mentally, we become obsessed with thoughts of using. Physically, we develop a compulsion to continue using, regardless of the consequences. Spiritually, we become totally self-centered in the course of our addiction. Looking at addiction as a disease makes sense to a lot of addicts because, in our experience, addiction is progressive, incurable, and can be fatal unless arrested.

In Narcotics Anonymous, we deal with every aspect of our addiction, not just its most obvious symptom: our uncontrollable drug use. The aspects of our disease are numerous. By practicing this program, we each discover the ways in which our addiction affects us personally. Regardless of the individual effects of addiction on our lives, all of us share some common characteristics. Through working the First Step we will address the obsession, the compulsion, the denial, and what many have termed a "spiritual void."

As we examine and acknowledge all these aspects of our disease, we start to understand our powerlessness. Many of us have had problems with the idea that, as addicts, we are obsessive and compulsive. The idea that these words applied to us may have made us cringe. However, obsession and compulsion are aspects of our powerlessness. We need to understand and acknowledge their presence in our lives if our admission of powerlessness is to be complete. Obsession, for us, is the never-ending stream of thoughts relating to using drugs, running out of drugs, getting more drugs, and so on. We simply can't get these thoughts out of our minds. In our experience, compulsion is the irrational impulse to continue using drugs. no matter what happens as a result. We just can't stop. We address obsession and compulsion here as they relate to our drug use because, when we first come into the program, our drug addiction is how we identify with each other and the program. As we continue in our recovery, we will see how these aspects of our addiction can manifest themselves in many areas of our lives.

Denial is the part of our disease that makes it difficult, if not impossible, for us to acknowledge reality. In our addiction, denial protected us from seeing the reality of what our lives had become. We often told ourselves that, given the right set of circumstances, we might still be able to bring our lives under control. Always skillful at defending our actions, we refused to accept responsibility for the damage done by our addiction. We believed that if we tried long and hard enough, substituted one drug for another, switched friends, or changed our living arrangements or occupations, our lives would improve. These rationalizations repeatedly failed us, yet we continued to cling to them. We denied that we had a problem with drugs, regardless of all evidence to the contrary. We lied to ourselves, believing that we could use again successfully. We justified our actions, despite the wreckage around us resulting from our addiction. The spiritual part of our disease, the part we may recognize only by a feeling of emptiness or loneliness when we first get clean, is perhaps one of the most difficult aspects of addiction for us. Because this part of our disease affects us so profoundly and so personally, we may be overwhelmed when we think about applying a program of recovery to it. However, we need to keep in mind that recovery doesn't happen overnight for anyone.

full text is available here: It Works How and Why, Step 1

GracieLou

I can be rid of the symptoms of active alcoholism but I can't get rid of the fact that I am an alcoholic. I am not cured, ever.

So from a different angle the cancer patient (not all but most, if caught in time) can be cured, I cannot.

A person that smoked and developed cancer can be cured and then smoke again. They may never develop cancer again. Most won't risk it but they do, just like the alcoholic that should not risk it but does.

There are people that get cancer and do nothing about it. They just live until they die. A diagnosis is not always the answer to getting or wanting help and that is the same with any medical condition. The person has to want the answer to their problem.

doggonecarl

Alcoholism is a disease characterized by abnormalities in brain chemistry.
--From, Beyond the Influence

Katchie

There is information easily looked up that supports alcoholism isn't a disease. I believe it has been argued.

I don't care who says what. I know the difference in my own mind and that is all that matters. When I've been to meetings, I just keep this opinion to myself since that is the general accepted line of thought. That's fine, I don't have to believe it.

I too do not believe it is a disease as diseases go. I cared for my grandmother who had a brain tumor and was the one caring for her in her home the moment she breathed her last breath. She need not ever apologize to me for having a brain tumor. She literally could not help it, didn't cause it, had no control over it, couldn't make a decision whether to have a brain tumor, etc.

I also cared for my mother in 2011 for 4 months who had bone cancer. I, and my sister, were with her in the same home as my grandmother and held her hand as she breathed her last breath.

In no way shape or form is my husbands alcohol addiction, something he has chosen as his way of dealing with life, remotely associated with, resemble, yada yada, what those two precious women went through, through no fault of their own. I know this in my heart and that's all I need to know.

But, I'm ok if others want to believe differently. I know the one thing my husband has picked from attending AA strongly is that he has a 'disease'. Ok. Whatever. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing and believing what I witness.

ardy

I think maybe when there are people in a group like this.. we are of the same mind and looking for the hand to reach out and keep us from floating away ... i don't know for sure.. just feel every morning this group helps to keep me in a circle that does not move to fast.. but helps to keep the day moving along.. and I am not totally alone and by myself .. for no man is an island... in this sea called Life.. old lady rambling.. prayers to all ardy...

GracieLou

I am not trying to take away from the pain you feel in any way but I find I need to comment on this.

I didn't choose to be an alcoholic. For me, and I am not sure it is like this for everyone, I believe I was born one. The craving that I get from alcohol I had from the first time I drank.

The only way I would have not become an active alcoholic was to never had it touch my lips.

I know now that I have a choice, I did not know that for most of, if not all of my drinking career. This is just my case and I am sure your case or your husbands case may be different, but I never felt there was a choice.

I had to learn to deal with life, on life's terms just like a baby has to learn to walk. I did not know how.

Now I had to be willing to learn, that was my key. I didn't know it was learning process. I had no idea that I could live a life where I did not drink. I did not understand all the ways that I used alcohol at the time I used it.

I do now, I know now, I learned and I am still learning but when I was an active alcoholic, I honestly did not know. I had to get sober first before I was capable of learning any of the things I needed to learn.

I just wanted to point out that for the person that is an active alcoholic like I was, that some of us did not know there was a choice and I didn't know that because I had never been to the other side.

I didn't even know there was grass much less that it was greener. I did not know about alcoholism or what it meant to be an alcoholic. I am sure it is the same for people that have diabetes, they do not know how to cope and manage it until they understood it and got the information.

I was not born knowing how to be a sober alcoholic.

Now all of this is moot to the person that loves the alcoholic of course. They must take care of themselves and their lives. They cannot wait for the alcoholic to get to the other side because they may never get there.

NYCDoglvr

The AMA classifies addiction (which includes alcoholism & codependency) as a mental illness. Better compared to Bipolar or Borderline Personality Disorder. Nobody in the world can predict whether an alcoholic will stop drinking and if so, for how long. I do know that the % is very low.

What's the point of trying to figure out someone? We can never understand what's really in someone elses head. Some alcoholics may feel guilt, many don't. In the end it's how we (the codependent) responds and what we do about our own issues.

Stung

I agree with every word you said. Our marriage therapist, who specializes in addiction, is also diabetic and explained how she could not stop eating cookies, ice cream and cake after she was diagnosed, even though she knew it was making her feel miserable.

I don't have any similar kind of affliction and told them both that they're nuts. I feel bad that they're both compelled to make poor choices for their emotional and physical well being but beyond that, I cannot relate.

WMJ1012

Ispaz

There are a lot of opinions. I believe what you're looking for is the truth.

The truth is it's a spiritual and physical illness or malady that includes distorted thinking, just like the illness or malady of the Alanon, gambler, overeater, sex addict, etc

Change the addiction and the problem is the same - and so is the solution.

If you want to learn the facts yourself, I highly recommend reading the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. In it you will find:

1) An accurate description of the illness
2) An accurate description of the Solution
3) A Solution for you as well

I would read it from The Doctors Opinion (pg XXV in the beginning) straight through to pg 135.

Hawkeye13

I think I was like Grace--sort of "born" into the groove of genetic and behavioral addiction--so I agree that Grace has a valid claim that the initial "choice" might not have been a choice.

However, now that I know how it works, continuing to be an addict or not has become a choice.

It isn't as easy for me, or other "preprogrammed addicts" to choose sobriety perhaps as a normie, but it can be done the same way a diabetic can choose not to consume sugar.

I do not consider myself in perpetual recovery, but recovered.
I'm recovered as long as I don't make the choice to drink.
It is no longer on my radar, I don't crave it, and I have moved on and filled my life
with other things which are meaningful.

Does this mean my disease, or condition, or state of mental health, or whatever lexical signifier you want to attach to it, is cured or in remission?

Depends on your school of thought.
There may be more than one "truth" despite claims to the contrary.

I think the point Katchie makes about her husband is also valid, therefore.
He now knows better and he has the tools to deal with his drinking but does not choose to employ them despite the harm to him and his family.

So both of you (Grace and Katchie) are correct on a bigger spectrum.

I'm a triple winner Spaz and my husband's drinking is really the main reason I am still
active on this list. It also makes me angry that he knows what this can mean in terms
of progression but still does it. I try to let that go and realize I have the choice to be in the relationship same as he has the choice to drink.

It is not easy to grow up with, be in, or live with alcohol addiction.

freetosmile

I have said this before and this is truly my view as a health care professional.

If I view alcoholism as a disease (like diabetes or heart disease) then I also know that there are interventions and treatment regimens designed to give better quality of life, add to duration of life, or cure it entirely.

If I look at alcoholism as incurable (like type 1 - insulin dependent diabetes) then this is my thought process:

In the medical world, if we have patients that come into the clinic and are simply refusing to follow the treatment regimen (like lifestyle changes, medication and so on) then we stop focusing so much on "helping" them. We gear up to just treat the emergencies. Because that is what is going to happen with that patient. They will have more and more emergencies as their disease progresses. We also realize that we have hundreds of other patients who DO WANT TO FOLLOW the treatments and we focus our attention on them.

So in essence, yes it can be viewed of as a disease ( but IMO not leukemia or something like that) but more of a disease in which the patient is doing NOTHING to treat. So if there ARE treatments (AA, therapy, rehab) and the A is choosing NOT to self-help...then it's time to focus that attention on those who do want self-help (like yourself).

Just my two cents

Shellcrusher

I'm not a double winner.
I have been on these boards for a while. I attend 2 Alanon meetings per week with a step study group on Sunday and I have a sponsor.
The majority of the fellas in my men's Alanon recovery group are double winners with some powerful sobriety and wisdom under their belts.

Here's what I know.
The only conscious decision my wife made was taking that first drink. 2 months later, she couldn't stand and was falling up the stairs...I know alcoholics who can do it faster but that's not my business. This view is a bit different than some other posts here but my thoughts come from what Bill says and the stories in the Big Book, which I study.

Anyway, that's all it took and I used to beat myself silly trying to figure out how in the world someone can do the things she did. All it took was 1 drink from her and 2 months later, I couldn't think straight and fell down a hole that nobody could see. She kept drinkin. I kept spinning cycles about her drinking. I tried to make it rational. For me to keep thinking the same way about her and try to figure out why she couldn't just make a better conscious choice was driving me closer and closer to my own death. I don't say that lightly. It's the same hole that brought me to this forum, got me to Alanon and got me to mind myself.

All that said, I'm not going down the path of defining the word disease, just like I'm not going down the path of defining God. Hell, my study leader is a double winner and a Doctor. He calls it an Allergy. What am I? A codie? Addicted to my Addict? Insane? There's so many ways other people could define me. My mother in law said I was crazy. I hated her for it but guess what? She's right.

Learning that my wife has a disease, an Allergy, a Gene an Addiction helped me separate the drunk behaviors from the wife I love. That aided in detachment which created more space in my mind to focus on myself. That's all it is to me.

My RAW attends AA, has a sponsor and works her own program. I'm going to let her define what Alcoholism is for herself. I'm not a doctor. I'm not an Alcoholic. I'm not God. How rational was my own choice to try and define for her, what her problem is? I tried to do that for her so many times that she's probably still pissed at me for robbing her of her own dignity to figure it out herself. How cruel of me! Guess what? I wasn't doing it only to her. I realized that my own behavior could be applied to most areas of my life. I'm fixing my overbearing type A control freak behavior. That is how I go from focusing on defining her Disease to working on myself. How's that for 4th stepping it? Wait? Did I just 5th step? I'm here because of her but I'm taking responsibility for my own actions. Believe me when I say, I feel real good for doing that just now. That's growth. That's serenity.

Speaking of that, I know that I have a ton of resentments to work through and do inventory on. The more work I put into myself the more those resentments start to fade. I begin to think less about why my wife did those bad things. I focus less on how her behavior used to baffle and upset me. I'm learning how to let that noise go and for me. Life is so much better when I work on figuring out my own problems.