working things out in my head
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working things out in my head
I hope no one minds me working through things in my head right now - it really helps me to figure things out.
I had an appt with my therapist. Unfortunately, due to our schedules, I can't see her again until Nov 4. But I have a lot to work on. She is heavily based in Al-Anon, and until I can get to a physical meeting, she's very helpful.
She wants me to quit talking to AH about his drinking. This is hard, I feel like it will be giving him a free pass. She says to do my own thing, and then when he is sober, say something like, "when you spend all night drinking, it cuts into our family time, and I resent that" and then leave it. She says, I will have stated my "discontent" with the situation and not left anything up for argument. Of course AH will argue tho. He always does. How do I say something like that and just walk away when he becomes defensive and argumentative - which he will.
She said God (or HP) cannot speak to him when I am trying to speak over Him. Never thought of it that way. I am trying to be God. Hmm. I never thought of it that way before. God is always with us but we have to allow him to speak. I have to allow Him to speak to AH.
I have a lot of work to do.
I had an appt with my therapist. Unfortunately, due to our schedules, I can't see her again until Nov 4. But I have a lot to work on. She is heavily based in Al-Anon, and until I can get to a physical meeting, she's very helpful.
She wants me to quit talking to AH about his drinking. This is hard, I feel like it will be giving him a free pass. She says to do my own thing, and then when he is sober, say something like, "when you spend all night drinking, it cuts into our family time, and I resent that" and then leave it. She says, I will have stated my "discontent" with the situation and not left anything up for argument. Of course AH will argue tho. He always does. How do I say something like that and just walk away when he becomes defensive and argumentative - which he will.
She said God (or HP) cannot speak to him when I am trying to speak over Him. Never thought of it that way. I am trying to be God. Hmm. I never thought of it that way before. God is always with us but we have to allow him to speak. I have to allow Him to speak to AH.
I have a lot of work to do.
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These are great insights, SVL -- keep it up!
I see why you feel that silence on the subject of his drinking feels like implicit approval, but it isn't. My question is, has all the talking you've ever done about it made a difference? has he ever needed a 'pass' to do whatever the heck it is he's going to do?
You can make a statement saying how you feel without having to defend it or engage in debate about it but you're right, it isn't easy. It takes practice. He will argue and get defensive. But you don't have to. Recently someone said around here that if you want to see your active A's true colors, tell them 'No.'
Sending you continued strength and courage.
I see why you feel that silence on the subject of his drinking feels like implicit approval, but it isn't. My question is, has all the talking you've ever done about it made a difference? has he ever needed a 'pass' to do whatever the heck it is he's going to do?
You can make a statement saying how you feel without having to defend it or engage in debate about it but you're right, it isn't easy. It takes practice. He will argue and get defensive. But you don't have to. Recently someone said around here that if you want to see your active A's true colors, tell them 'No.'
Sending you continued strength and courage.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Your therapist is right. After 34 years with an A, there is NOTHING you can say or do to get him sober. Please just work on you, help you either detach or move forward in your life. They will never seek help from us either "recommending it, threatening it or anything else we want try to do, by HELPING.
Just doesn't work that way. Try and find peace within yourself (((((( HUGS)))))
Just doesn't work that way. Try and find peace within yourself (((((( HUGS)))))
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How do I work on just going about my business with the kids? I have such resentment for having to carry the load of parenting. Yes I know he's the one missing out on them, and I know they can always come to me and I am proud of that, I have worked hard for that, but I still have a lot of resentment for having to do so much.
Sikofit - I lucked out. I was seeing a therapist through work for a year, and she moved. This is the therapist she passed me on to. I think my HP was at work here, I needed to find this woman. I can't see her very often, and she gets on my case about that, but I tell her, at least I'm coming. right?
Sikofit - I lucked out. I was seeing a therapist through work for a year, and she moved. This is the therapist she passed me on to. I think my HP was at work here, I needed to find this woman. I can't see her very often, and she gets on my case about that, but I tell her, at least I'm coming. right?
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Something that helped me a lot was letting go of my need to be "right", to convince someone else that my point of view was justified and they needed to agree. It is hard with someone who is constantly on the defensive in order to protect their disease. I've learned to say "We'll have to agree to disagree," and leave it at that.
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Originally Posted by soverylost 
How do I work on just going about my business with the kids?
We feed the feelings and things and people we pay attention to. If we spend all of our time mulling over our resentments, those resentments will grow. If we can work towards accepting things in our life the way they really are, instead of how we wish them to be, we can start making healthier decisions about what we want and what we'll live with.
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That all makes sense. But I can't shake the feeling that if I accept the way things are, it's a free pass for him. I'm saying, hey babe, keep on drinking yourself to death. That's ok, I don't mind, i'll take care of everything so you can be totally irresponsible. You know?
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i love my kids. I don't want anyone to think that I don't. And I don't resent taking care of them, they are my world. I just resent that I am having to do this myself, with a partner who spends his spare time drinking instead of with his family. Our daughter asked me, what happens if Dad decides he'd rather be drinking forever than spend time with us? That broke my heart. I want to tell him that, I want him to know how much he's hurting us.
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soverylost......You can't expect his agreement with you...or his approval...or his validation of your views... This is part of "detaching" from him.
Invariably.....the alcoholic sees alcohol as the "solution" and the loved ones see alcohol as the "problem". That really is not going to change (unless he sought authentic sobriety---which could take a very long time).
dandylion
Invariably.....the alcoholic sees alcohol as the "solution" and the loved ones see alcohol as the "problem". That really is not going to change (unless he sought authentic sobriety---which could take a very long time).
dandylion
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soverylost.....here is the thing....nothing you say is going to change what he does. Only he will decide what he is going to do. "Nagging" only frustrates YOU more...and doesn't change anything.
It looks like a free pass...but, it isn't really. You can't control or change the fact that he is an active alcoholic...only he can get himself sober. Trust me...most of us have tried every thing in the book. You are going to just wear yourself out and get crazy, yourself trying to press him into being sober and being the kind of partner/parent that you want him to be.
Reality is...he may never morph into what you want him to be. If so, you will need to adjust your life to that reality---whatever you have to do to live the kind of life that you want to live.
What you can do is to set your boundaries. What you will accept or not. What you will live with or not. If he wants to become a reciprocal partner and an attentive father---he will. If he doesn't want to..he won't.
If he drops the ball as a parent--you still have to be the best parent you can be for your children.
These are just bottom line realities. As hard as it is....we all have to live life on life's terms.
For right this minute...I would say to learn how to detach from him and direct that energy to yourself......and learn how to set your boundaries to protect yourself and your children from the disease.
What he will choose to do will be entirely up to him. His responsibilities need to rest on his head...not yours.
dandylion
You have a chance to change your life. He isn't getting a "free pass" because he is living with a disease that will steal everything he has and will ultimately kill him.....unless he chooses o therwise. Living the life of an alcoholic is not a free pass..lol. It is He** on earth.
It looks like a free pass...but, it isn't really. You can't control or change the fact that he is an active alcoholic...only he can get himself sober. Trust me...most of us have tried every thing in the book. You are going to just wear yourself out and get crazy, yourself trying to press him into being sober and being the kind of partner/parent that you want him to be.
Reality is...he may never morph into what you want him to be. If so, you will need to adjust your life to that reality---whatever you have to do to live the kind of life that you want to live.
What you can do is to set your boundaries. What you will accept or not. What you will live with or not. If he wants to become a reciprocal partner and an attentive father---he will. If he doesn't want to..he won't.
If he drops the ball as a parent--you still have to be the best parent you can be for your children.
These are just bottom line realities. As hard as it is....we all have to live life on life's terms.
For right this minute...I would say to learn how to detach from him and direct that energy to yourself......and learn how to set your boundaries to protect yourself and your children from the disease.
What he will choose to do will be entirely up to him. His responsibilities need to rest on his head...not yours.
dandylion
You have a chance to change your life. He isn't getting a "free pass" because he is living with a disease that will steal everything he has and will ultimately kill him.....unless he chooses o therwise. Living the life of an alcoholic is not a free pass..lol. It is He** on earth.
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What Dandylion said, times a thousand.
You are already doing this alone, and if it he was capable of understanding how you feel about it, if he was capable of changing because of that...it would have happened by now. Any effort made to get him to validate your feelings or understand you just results in you spinning your wheels, building more resentments, and getting more and more enmeshed in his behavior.
You are already doing this alone, and if it he was capable of understanding how you feel about it, if he was capable of changing because of that...it would have happened by now. Any effort made to get him to validate your feelings or understand you just results in you spinning your wheels, building more resentments, and getting more and more enmeshed in his behavior.
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Originally Posted by soverylost
i love my kids. I don't want anyone to think that I don't. And I don't resent taking care of them, they are my world. I just resent that I am having to do this myself, with a partner who spends his spare time drinking instead of with his family. Our daughter asked me, what happens if Dad decides he'd rather be drinking forever than spend time with us? That broke my heart. I want to tell him that, I want him to know how much he's hurting us.
When I start feeling down about the whole single parenting thing and resentful of my ex, I know that it's time to focus back on me. I was the one who chose my ex, I chose to have a child with him, I chose to stay for five years of alcoholism and crazy behavior. At the time I had mentally painted myself into a corner because I didn't think I had other options. I did, though. I just didn't like them. They weren't the options I wanted, so I chose to ignore them and stay stuck.
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What I'm going to say may be controversial but it is my experience so I'll share it.
The ONLY thing that EVER convinced me i had a drinking problem was, ironically, the drink itself.
My wife tried pointing it out, my Mum, my friends, my Aunty.
But it was never over because they said it should be.
It was over when alcohol had totally and thoroughly beat me into a state of surrender.
It is the way of alcoholism and those that have it, that we alcoholic folk are the very last ones to know and admit to it.
Keep yourself and your children safe from any potential harm his drinking might cause. Stay out of his way when drunk and don't think he can be reasoned with.
Even the next morning he will still be drunk, leave any talking to the remorseful stage that will come later that day. If he isn't picking up a drink in the mornings at least.
When you get into the Alanon book, you will find advice similar to the above.
I hope that helps and that the above doesn't terrify you or leave you feeling hopeless.
Left to drink, he will quickly hit a rock bottom and it is then that you have to be ready with a plan to get him the help he needs.
I noticed you have some notions of God and spirituality.
The whole idea of Alanon and AA is that good spirit, God, conquers bad spirit, alcohol.
(the strongest alcoholic beverages are called just that... "spirits ")
In a nutshell, that is how the steps work.
Getting connected to a power greater than yourself.
Let go and let God
The ONLY thing that EVER convinced me i had a drinking problem was, ironically, the drink itself.
My wife tried pointing it out, my Mum, my friends, my Aunty.
But it was never over because they said it should be.
It was over when alcohol had totally and thoroughly beat me into a state of surrender.
It is the way of alcoholism and those that have it, that we alcoholic folk are the very last ones to know and admit to it.
Keep yourself and your children safe from any potential harm his drinking might cause. Stay out of his way when drunk and don't think he can be reasoned with.
Even the next morning he will still be drunk, leave any talking to the remorseful stage that will come later that day. If he isn't picking up a drink in the mornings at least.
When you get into the Alanon book, you will find advice similar to the above.
I hope that helps and that the above doesn't terrify you or leave you feeling hopeless.
Left to drink, he will quickly hit a rock bottom and it is then that you have to be ready with a plan to get him the help he needs.
I noticed you have some notions of God and spirituality.
The whole idea of Alanon and AA is that good spirit, God, conquers bad spirit, alcohol.
(the strongest alcoholic beverages are called just that... "spirits ")
In a nutshell, that is how the steps work.
Getting connected to a power greater than yourself.
Let go and let God
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I personally treated my children just as I would if I were a single mom, because I knew one day it would come to that, and it has. He has them every other weekend and on Tuesdays. Picked up DD from school one day, had to text me and ask who her teacher is.
It was a lot easier for me to know my kids were safe and being taken care of because I was doing it myself. When I eventually kicked my XAH out, it was easier b/c he was like having another child for me to take care of. I did not sign up for that.
This is just my .02
I think it's all good and fine what your counselor is saying about not talking to him about drinking, however, not addressing your resentments that will continue to pile up is a mistake.
XXX
It was a lot easier for me to know my kids were safe and being taken care of because I was doing it myself. When I eventually kicked my XAH out, it was easier b/c he was like having another child for me to take care of. I did not sign up for that.
This is just my .02
I think it's all good and fine what your counselor is saying about not talking to him about drinking, however, not addressing your resentments that will continue to pile up is a mistake.
XXX
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Posts: 3,443
I understand that resentment.
In hindsight I can see that the resentment was not about carrying the load because I am for sure carrying the load now and I don't have resentment.
My resentment, and it was deep and overwhelming, was that I felt I was being forced to accept a situation I found unacceptable. I was resentful that I could not force/coerce/convince him to make a different choice and I was angry and resentful because I was unwilling to. I didn't see that I had any choices but I did, I just didn't like them or give myself permission to make them.
Once I turned that corner the resentments slowly started fading away.
In hindsight I can see that the resentment was not about carrying the load because I am for sure carrying the load now and I don't have resentment.
My resentment, and it was deep and overwhelming, was that I felt I was being forced to accept a situation I found unacceptable. I was resentful that I could not force/coerce/convince him to make a different choice and I was angry and resentful because I was unwilling to. I didn't see that I had any choices but I did, I just didn't like them or give myself permission to make them.
Once I turned that corner the resentments slowly started fading away.
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How do I work on just going about my business with the kids? I have such resentment for having to carry the load of parenting. Yes I know he's the one missing out on them, and I know they can always come to me and I am proud of that, I have worked hard for that, but I still have a lot of resentment for having to do so much.
I'm up to my earlobes in it right now, and I can tell you that that is what makes me get out of bed in the morning. Knowing that no matter what, I can always hold on to that: I was there for my children when they needed me. It was hard work. I threw fits at night over the absolute absence of their father (even when he was in the same room). I cried at how exhausted I was. I had some pretty stern talks with God about how unfair it all was.
The reward? Is that my children trust me, unconditionally.
Children who grow up in bad circumstances and still turn out OK usually have one thing in common: They have one person (my friend who's an ACOA calls them "angels") who believes in them and sticks by them no matter what. For her, it was an elderly social worker who broke the rules and helped her get emancipated. For my husband, it was his grandmother. For my children -- it was me.
You are their angel. You're the one constant in their life. The rock. Try to remember that when you're overwhelmed and resentful towards their father. No matter how much work you are doing, you're doing the most important work in the world: You are saving lives.
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So true lillamy. I am an ACoA and I had an angel--my grandma. She was a subtle angel, but an angel nonetheless. She didn't ever interfere, but she always had time to talk to me, and she always provided a place to escape to--anytime--no questions asked. She was my safety when things got hot at home. She has severe dementia now and it breaks my heart that she has no idea what's going on around her. I don't know what I would've done without her.
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Im curious hope you dont mind my asking, in the program I work along with what your new therapist said there would be something there about making the quality time count with your husband. Was it suggested its ok to engage with him when he is sober, initiate family activities or couples activities ? Things you both, or all enjoy? I dont know if this will make sense but I will try to explain anyway. nagging, pleading, threatening dont work because after a while its only like a little annoying negative voice and a wall is put up to deflect it. But if you are able to spend enjoyable time together, and as a family when he is sober and treat him as normal then with our program the idea is these times end up being a positive reinforcement not to drink. You really dont have to say anything, but you can emphasis how much you enjoy spending time together. Over time he may begin to connect the dots for himself and form a stronger desire to have more sober time. But one of the problems is you have to be very much in control of your own emotions. If the next day he drinks, you cant blame yourself or think it has anything to do with you. Two independent days, feelings, thoughts. You spend time together because you want to, because you want to relate to him as a non user when he's sober. This may not relate to what youve been instructed dont know but I thought maybe it would help you see just because you dont complain about his drinking, your actions and interactions still speak volumes but in a more subtle way.
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