SeekingGrowth

Hi everyone. A friend of mine has been in recovery from opiate addiction for about three years. She was a big NA'er for awhile, but found a new job about a year ago that required her to move and keeps her very busy. She goes to meetings much less frequently now, and spends less time with recovering people. She followed the recommended approach of complete abstinence from all mood altering drugs up until about a month ago, when she decided she could drink alcohol. As far as I know, she has not been drinking to excess, but gets together with work colleagues once a week or so, or with other friends, and has a few beers, maybe gets a little toasted. She says she has no desire to go back to using opiates, but wants to be able to have a few drinks with friends once a week or so, like "normal" people.

i'm looking for opinions and experience here - how much of a risk is it, really, that her drinking will take her back to her DOC, or that she will end up cross-addicted to alcohol? I have another friend who is a treatment professional, and who is in recovery himself, who says that my girlfriend's behavior is HUGELY risky and HIGHLY likely to take her back to using. Really? Even if she is very aware of her past and has no desire or plan to go back to that life?

Thanks to all for your thoughts on this....

brian810

I'm living proof of that one I'm an alcoholic I don't drink anymore cause I traded it for opiates trading addictions is easy a dangerous believe me

Mountainmanbob

for the true addict this never works out well for long

seems that our real problem seems to be -- self deception

a fool is one who fools themself

MM

OpioPhobe

Alcohol didn't work out well for me, and it has been a painful lesson.

GracieLou

I was never a big pot smoker but I am sure if I started smoking pot that I would return to drinking.

Having an addictive personality, I know that I am at risk. At first I am sure it would be a joint once in a while, then it would be a couple times a week, then it would be everyday and when the time comes that the pot no longer does for me what I want it to, I will seek out old faithful.

It would be pure denial if I convince myself that I use it to relax, unwind or be social. It is the fact that I am leaning on something other than my HP to get me through.

I remember a time that if I had any issues, a little stress, a bad day, a rough ride home from work etc. the first thing that came to mind was “I need a drink”. I used it to cope and escape instead of understanding that is was just life. It was not some big harry deal.

I cannot let myself fall into denial that I am a normal person. I am not but I am not alone. There are many more just like me. I have accepted that. Acceptance is what has allowed me to go on, live life on life’s terms without looking or going back to play with the “normal” people.

IMO this person is at risk but sometimes the only way to find out and learn to accept that is to test the waters. It is their decision and there is not much anyone can do about it except be there when or if they return to recovery.

cleaninLI

Trading one addiction for another addiction is very common. I know there are people who can drink moderately during recovery. But I'm unsure of the percentage and if it leads to problems down the road. It did for me. After my recovery my first time around, I decided to drink a beer one day.....within a couple months I was up to half a bottle of vodka every day....then within a few more months a fifth of vodka daily. So I know I can not drink in recovery. The craziest thing of all is I don't even like alcohol! I never craved it or anything like that. I believe it's because I'm addicted to numbing myself....to the high or change that substances give me.......the DOC is unimportant.

Marcus

This question pops up pretty regularly around here. I am sure if you searched the substance abuse forum for Alcohol OR Drinking you would find 100 threads started on this very topic over the years.

One problem with MOST addicts is they are not like so called NORMAL people. They tend to do many things to excess and not just their drugs of choice. Many that I have met tend to think a bit differently and often irrationally including myself.

You say she is very aware of her past and has no desire or plan to go back to that life. Unfortunately many of us had no desire or plan to repeat the past, but it happens again and again and again.

I have been to several treatment facilities both inpatient and outpatient. Most of the people who were not first timers there explain how they started to pull away from their recovery. Whether it be not going to meetings or not continuing to see their therapist or reach out for help. Then they decided it was okay to drink or smoke a little pot or even pop a pill or two on weekends. It often starts harmlessly enough, but progresses into a problem. Then they tell themselves well if it gets to be a problem I will quit. But by the time it becomes a problem you have woken up the beast and you can't quit. Just because you quit once before does not mean it will be easy to quit a second, third, or tenth time.

I do hate to make blanket statements about ALL ADDICTS. Because yes we have a lot in common, but each and every story is a little unique. Some are worse than others. But like many have already said it is very risky. Can't she find other outlets to socialize that do not involve drinking?

Let us know how it goes. Best of luck to you!!!

TiredEnough

I really believe I could drink if I wanted to in moderation. I don't think alcohol could ever be for me what opiates were. They are just too different in how they hit me. Thing is, I don't like to drink so I don't.

MIRecovery

For me sober means sober

BadSneakers

This is a controversial topic, I know. I dumped a hydro habit in 2005. Since then I have been able to drink in a light social manner and once in a blue moon smoke weed. I have never felt the desire to abuse them because my thing is opioids. They are the one thing that hits me in the magic spot, so that's what I have to be on guard for. Those other things just don't grab/effect me in the same way.

I stupidly got involved with kratom in 2012. It works on the delta and mu opioid receptors. Naturally my "responsible" use eventually devolved into a heavy habit with tinctures and a physical withdrawal that made kicking hydro seem like a day at the beach. So for me personally the message is quite clear: I understand where my Achilles heel is, it's those freaking opioid receptors that are ALWAYS going to be looking for that particular feeling that opiates give. So I must do my best to avoid them from here on out if I want to live a healthy, full life.

This is just my personal opinion as to what works for me. (Since I got clean from the kratom I haven't taken any mind-altering substances - including alcohol - because I am letting myself heal. I probably won't for a while.)

anattaboy

There is some research to imply an alcohol/opiate connection but you could not prove it by me. I've done opiates (even heroin) in the past recreationally and never developed a habit--even did oxy 80's for 2 weeks daily and just stopped with a little stomach upset. We're all wired different and "addictive personality" is weak science at best but repetitive drinking does produce THIQ. I will clarify that I would not try heroin now that I am sober as it would not take me "there". In fact, I never got there and I gave it my all.

Ashamedof

I think everyone is different but for me? I have traded addictions since I was 15years old.
My demise has been and will always be opiates but that doesn't mean alcohol wasn't a problem at one point in my life (when I kicked opiates years ago). The thing is, I don't even like drinking but it filled some kind of void for me so I wanted more and more. Addicts want instant gratification. We're not known for our patience, that's for sure.
I think your friend should tread lightly. Weekend drinking can easily turn into nightly and then daily drinking.

brian810

I agree with you ash been in rehab for alcohol twice then got into the opies I thought the other day when I quit opies getting a little nip of vodka to ease the pain glad I didn't cause I would have had a half gallon in my fridge right now myself I can't do any mood altering drugs or drink I lose with both its a battle I can't go into anymore

anattaboy

Best wishes Brian! Being clean is progressive.You know this even if it doesn't feel that way right now.

Fly N Buy

Well, to use a legal analogy, goes to character...

If someone you depose has their veracity proven to be unreliable, the conclusion might be nothing they say can be trusted. Might they still tell the truth - well, yes. But is the entire statement after the lie in question. Yes

So goes addictions. Could a person who was an addict not get addicted to another substance. Perhaps. Might they, well yes.

The math of addiction rarely adds up to empirical conclusive data. Hope for the best for your friend I suppose.

peace

liv1ce

I believe that there is a possibility that there is a difference amongst us in that some can actually carry on a relationship with one substance and control themselves while being unable with another. But not me or anyone else I have personally met who has the type of problem known as addiction. That would be me.

For me, I will do ANYTHING that will get me high. Pot was put on this earth for me and I have proven that I can smoke it every day all day for years and stay alive, work, eat, sleep, make love, count, add, play sports and on and on. I just can't stop smoking it.

I can do the same things on oxy, hydros, tramadol and alcohol. I just can't stop.

I will and have gotten involved in virtually anything that will get me high, get me that little sidestep from life that allows me to look at things from a different angle or with a different attitude.

Anywhere, anytime, anyhow.

I just can't stop.

Sobriety, however, is the only answer for me to live a life that is honest and free and cannot involve any of those things that I crave - ever.

Sobriety is something, however, that I have proven time and again I AM able to stop.
I can be sober for years and stop at the drop of a hat and then stop being sober for years. It is so easy to stop being sober that I cannot mess with it.

TiredEnough

I wonder sometimes if I was an addict or just an idiot that really liked painkillers. Most of the problems I see here don't really affect me all that much. I really wonder about that sometimes.

BlueChair

I didnt write this thread, but thanks for posting it Seeking Growth and for everyone who has replied. I have been talking to a few of my friends here behind the scenes about this same topic. My husband was very sick last year with coke. Shooting it up, mixing it with things including heroin. Before it got that bad he snorted it for a month or so, and sometimes drank at the same time. He said it increased the effect plus he was in a dark place in his head. It was technically a relapse for him because he had trouble with coke before when he was in college (I didnt know him then). It had been a lot of years he wasnt using any drugs and doing fine, normal. He drank socially when I met him but I never saw any problems with it. Our whole relationship he has been able to do this. We dont keep beer in the frig or anything like this, mainly for him its always been a glass or two of wine, or sometimes one harder drink, an occasional celebration, or time out with the friends and he would have a couple beers. I think I saw him drink too much one time in our years together and it wasnt flat out drunk and not anywhere near the time of his relapse.

Sorry digressing a little, he did rehab last year and the doctors told him to stay off any substances including alcohol. Did the whole explanation of how the brain works, the dopamine, neurotransmitters, GABA and all these things I wont bore you all with as you probably already know. Then the part about memory and drinking memories linked with coke use being a trigger.
But where we live wine is very hard to escape from, and he decided he was not going to stop drinking and wanted to try to drink socially. By this I dont mean hanging out at bars, or in the garage with his friends and a case of beer. He worked with his doctor and has defined parameters for himself. Like he wont drink for emotional reasons, to escape, to numb himself, to make social situations easier. these types of things.

So far its working. Once this past year I came home and he was there drinking a bottle of wine. He had a bad day and was drinking emotionally. We talked it out, he stopped and threw the rest out. We went out and did something fun, had dinner. But it scares me sometimes, the potential misuse and how it could inadvertently trigger drug use.

Over the holiday weekend, we were away with family, extended family and lots of wine socially again. He did good, had one to one half drinks and stopped and only with dinner, or when we were all sitting and talking.

My problem is the topic for another thread of my own, learning to deal with my own fears while respecting his choice, and supporting him. I dont want to guilt him, make him feel like he is under a watchful eye because I dont think its healthy for either of us. I trust the way hes handling it, but its still scary because I love him and never want a repeat of last year. I think my fears were triggered by the long weekend and being around so much drink. I shared it with him, and he thinks it will take time for him to prove to himself and me its ok, or he will find out its a bad idea. He feels good about the way hes handling it right now. I do too, but Im still a big ole scarey cat!

sorry to be so long and rambling, but all this has been on my mind and Ive been a little reluctant to post in public.

SeekingGrowth

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and experience, everyone. I really appreciate it!!

Mamahawk

Seeking for me personally I think an addict should abstain from any mind altering substance. For me, Vicodin, was and will always be my one and only "love" so to say. Nothing compared. Everyone raved about oxy and I tried it but it just did not phase me. I only wanted my Vic's. BUT if I couldn't have those I would try anything to replicate the feeling. But like I said this is for me personally. I can't touch anything that will alter me. That includes some OTC stuff. I just have no limit in how much I'll take of anything to try to get high. And I think the potential to switch addictions is just to high for an addict.