Serper2014

It's a fact that some of us will never recover, despite the hope the that all of us want all of us to recover.

Each relapse must take something out of you. Sure the first few are learning experiences, but at what number does it become more and more discouraging to the individual? How many times can you really believe that you had your last drink before you just accept that you will drink until the end? My uncle has been to inpatient rehab over 40 times. As much as I wish the best for him, statistically speaking he probably will not recover.

How many licks did it take to get to the center of your tootsie pop?


***Disclaimer: This topic is relevant to me because I've had one relapse and the thought of have 500 relapses just....scares me. Even at 100 I don't think I could believe myself at that point. It must get harder and harder to quit the more times you quit. I remember the first time I realized that I had drank daily for 2 months...If I would have quit then it would have been so much easier. Now I'm in recovery with one relapse and I don't want to come back to this post years from now and say "If I would have stuck with it after one relapse it would have been so much easier" ...

Just thoughts in my head for the day! Stay clean guys!

Stoogy

I don't see why any number of relapses should do you any harm with a view to long term sobriety as I always believe we learn more from failure than we do from success.

Serper2014

Yeah but take any task that we could possibly fail or succeed at and I would say that yes we do learn from each failure, but we learn less and less with each failure relative to the first few failures.


If I've relapsed 10,000 times what could I possibly have learned in the 10,000th relapse that I didn't already know. And if we assume that I did learn something, then how significant is that something compared to what I learned in the first few relapses?

FreeOwl

relapse is always an opportunity to learn, and to accept, and to finally - truly - "Get It".

We have to be very careful not to let that become a license... a free hall pass.

I think sometimes the AV is at play, telling us "relapse is totally OK!! It's part of the process!!! We can just get sober NEXT TIME!!!!"

So, we have to be aware of that and we have to be willing to do the work that comes with learning from relapse and redoubling our efforts.

I think that a lot of relapse is precisely because we have not done those things and we HAVE been using the "hall pass" logic.

But, I don't think our chances decrease. As long as we are holding a desire to live in sobriety and taking steps to do so... our chances are still there.

trachemys

" How many licks did it take to get to the center of your tootsie pop?

Two.

A relapse means there was some sober time. Sober time means not drinking. Not drinking means there's still a desire to live.

People can have as many relapses as it takes.

Thepatman

[QUOTE=FreeOwl;4769370]I think sometimes the AV is at play, telling us "relapse is totally OK!! It's part of the process!!! We can just get sober NEXT TIME!!!!"
QUOTE]
I think this is really good. The messages are always encouraging for anyone that relapses on SR.

But the person needs to be self accountable to not interprete this as a free pass for their AV.

PurpleKnight

I think anyone can eventually quit alcohol, we all have the potential inside us, whether that happens or not depends on the effort and wanting it bad enough from the individual.

I guess it's tough to continually pick yourself up and dust yourself off, but when I first decided to quit to finally doing it with a gap of a year of continuously relapsing the decision was made in the same way, the only difference was my mindset and the support I had in place to be able to achieve it.

It can work both ways I think, some needed to "experiment" with moderation to finally realise the extent of the problem, some haven't figured out the right type of support is best for them, some haven't truly accepted the solution to dealing with their addiction, some haven't changed their lifestyle enough to facilitate a Sober life.

Some need time to finally crack it, others get it on the first try, but the decision and strength to re commit after a relapse comes from the same place each time, how much does someone want Sobriety?

Serper2014

[QUOTE=Thepatman;4769386] I wouldn't say this to anyone else patman, but I think in someways it is a bit too encouraging sometimes, because you know that when you come back to SR after a relapse everyone is going to be like "it's ok you'll get it next time, you don't have to feel like this every again." But patman you were the first name I really recognized on these boards. When I saw that you relapsed recently I wanted to post to you "dude wtf!!! get your ass in gear man! you can't be coming into my threads and inspiring me and then let me down like that! It gives me less hope for my own recovery when one of my teachers has relapsed! So don't do it again!"

least

I was a chronic relapser and now have four and a half years sober, so it is possible to finally 'get it'.

1newcreation

I'm always amazed @ folks that r 1 chip wonders! & not sayin that sarcastically either. My 1st two were lack of knowledge. Didnt know program well, not goin 2 mtgs as actively as I do now, nor involved in service work. 3rd time was went back home & since wasnt grounded & all people do after work is drink, why not? Had a sponsor then but he was in back burner so to speak. But he was there 4 me when came back w/ tail btwn my legs & picked up another damn white chip. Guess 'twas learning experience & the line I've heard in mtgs that relapse is part of recovery is horse manure IMO
Sobriety is part of recovery

Nuudawn

I think for the person who has relapsed 10,000 times they are failing to learn anything from relapse. They are not looking at what when wrong. They are not adjusting their sails. Some of us are slow learners...of which I am one.

I would have to say this is my 4 "serious" go at sobriety. I went to AA in my 20's. For whatever reason, I simply did not resonate with what I found there. As AA seemed to me as the only recovery answer, it was easier on my psyche to go back into denial of my problem. Yes ..I always knew I "should" quit...but it never felt like a "must" quit for my own betterment.

I went to AA again just before I turned 40. I was amidst a painful breakup and I remember pouring myself a drink...and just looking at it. I knew it wasn't going to work. I knew it wasn't going to kill the pain. It is a terrifying thing to lose all faith and hope in your grandest of all coping mechanisms. It is a lonely, confusing, terrifying thing and I felt utterly lost. I literally dropped to me knees in fear and despair.

The answer that came to me was AA. And that worked for awhile...the comfort and care I found there ease my broken heart... a little.

Last year, I woke up one morning and just thought..."the insanity must end". I think it was truly the first time I looked at alcohol as the greatest hindrance to my personal success. Like I radically accepted that notion. It wasn't that the solution failed..as it was back in 2006. It was the CAUSE of the problem.

I sat down and wrote out a list of what I could do when the urge to drink hit. On my list...way down near the end...was go to an AA meeting. I really didn't want to go...at all. At all.

I relapsed. In my climb back to sobriety I was able to start seeing the reasons why. Prior to my relapse...I had started to isolate...I had started to turn away from even my faithful SR. When my counsellor asked me to look at something other than my drinking..and join ANOTHER support forum for THAT problem. It was too much weight to bear.

Although I am not impervious to lonelieness and isolation...I will take "action"...preventative measures to help with that one....

Multiple, multiple relapses simply says to me...a person is simply not standing back, looking at what went wrong...and adjusting their sails.

And without that....yup, you're lost.

SoberLife2014

Someone once told me "If you throw enough sh** at a wall, some of it will eventually stick". That's how I think of it. I had been trying to quit for about 5 years and I had read books, gone to rehab, been to counseling, etc. I don't know how many times I relapsed, probably hundreds of times depending on your definition of "relapse". I relapsed 8 times after I started, what I consider, my recovery. Which is when I started joining groups like this and relapses were discussed. Had I joined this site 5 years ago I'll bet most people would have thought I was hopeless. To this day I still wonder what it took for it to eventually stick for me. Granted, I only have 5 months of sobriety. But this time it really feels like it's going to stick. I guess after my last relapse I finally realized that 1. I SERIOUSLY don't have control over my drinking when I start and I never will (can't just have one. can't pace myself) 2. After I start drinking the outcome will almost always be the same (hangovers, drama, guilt, shame) 3. I said that I never want to drink again for about the 1000th time and I finally listened to myself 4. I really don't need alcohol to live my life. But of course, everyone is different.

LadyinBC

I think recovery is possible if you have had one relapse or 1000.

I am just speaking for me here, but I relapsed over and over again, because I really wasn't ready to quit and wanted to drink. I planned and deliberately executed my relapses because I wanted to get drunk. I try to keep it simple. Today I am choosing to stay sober. Because I would prefer to be sober. The day I pick up a drink it means that I am choosing to get drunk over sobriety. That will not be a good day and I hope that day never comes or happens because it won't be pretty.

For me it comes down to a choice and how badly I want to stay sober, I don't worry about what the stats say or how many times I might have relapsed in the past. This is why I get thru it one day at a time, today sobriety is my choice.

Sunshine14

From my experience, people stop relapsing when the "pain" and "consequences" caused by alcohol are greater than the "reasons" they are drinking.

For example, if one is drinking because they have really bad anxiety or had a bad childhood or whatever and then they get a DUI and end up in jail etc...all of a sudden they say to themselves..."damn! My best friend (alcohol) stabbed me in the back!"

That's MY experience b/c the reason I started drinking and continued to drink for a long time was because of anxiety, PTSD from childhood trauma etc. (to numb the pain). Alcohol finally took me to a place where the pain of drinking was WORSE than the anxiety & trauma etc....so as of 5 short days ago...I have had enough.

As far as relapsing...I am sure there are statistics out there on this, but I personally know people who relapsed for years and got sober and I know people who relapsed for years and died at very young ages. I am still trying to figure out why some people get sober and some don't. It's very sad.

Good luck! Do you have some sober time now?

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Serper2014

Yeah I think you got what I was saying. I wasn't saying it's not possible to recover after a million relapses, but it is much less likely. Obviously people are coming in sharing their stories "I relapsed tons of times and then I finally did it!" But we don't have all the people that did the same and are now dead, and there are definitely more dead than the number of people posting here that are exceptions.

I have 3 days sober, but it really should be 33 days. My relapse was one night, a few beers and that was it. I feel like it's day 33 because the fact that I went 33 days and only drank once??? that's insane to me... I was an alone binge drinker that drank every single night. So yeah that life feels even more far away than 33 days, but I'm counting it as 3 days because I like the sobriety date of 7/7/14 and I may even get it tattooed on me ( I currently have no tats)

Soberpotamus

Ages 25, 27, 30, 31, 35, and 36. I've had to think hard to remember every single sober stint. I nearly forgot about the short lived ones at ages 25, 30, and 31. For reference, I'm now 37.

I never considered myself an "alcoholic in recovery" until age 36. Those previous times were because I knew I needed to get sober. There's a huge difference, in my experience, from knowing there's a problem and realizing I need to act NOW to save myself from disaster. Also, my consumption did change slightly for the worse over the years, and I aged and gained a little more life experience. Life experience and age is just one factor, and I don't think it's enough sometimes to make someone quit, but I used it to my advantage. I am aware that at ages 25 and 27, I felt I could stop at any time. And from age 27 to age 33, time seemed to "warp" for me. This had a lot to do with being in a relationship with an alcoholic at the time, and culminated in the tragic death of my alcoholic mother. I ended the relationship just after she died. Coinciding with the sober stint at age 35 was my first (and hopefully, last... lol) marriage, so that is significant as well, because of the emotional support and stability that afforded me (not that we have a solid marriage, it is rocky due to my addiction and something we are working through).

I grew in knowledge of what addiction is over the years. More so in the latter years. Finally, I decided to make a formal commitment to sobriety, my husband supported this. I went to a 20 day IOP program and attended Continuing Care meetings afterward. The best part of this program involved education on alcoholism from a neuroscience standpoint, addiction as a brain disorder or dysfunction. The Pleasure Unwoven documentary was the inspiration for the presentation we attended on The Broken Brain. My husband sat with me and learned enough that he now understands addiction probably better than many addicts.

So, with each relapse I learned a lot about my motivations for sobriety and my triggers. I learned what is NOT enough to keep me sober (for example, health, physical appearance, vanity). And I learned through trying out Moderation Management that I am not able to moderate.

I've learned to stay open to suggestion and to stay open to all programs, because I have tried most of all them, learned and retained some things from each, and use what works from them for myself now. I have eaten my words a few times And I have more tolerance and patience with others now because of it.

I think there's a fine balance between knowing we can pick ourselves back up after a relapse, and the acceptance of a chronic addiction issue along with a firm commitment to cease the behavior. There's a good metaphor of wearing sobriety like a loose sweater that seems applicable.

LBrain

It's subjective at the very least. This is the same as starting another what works thread x, y or z? What are the stats? NONE.

Can someone who has relapsed time and again finally make it. YES.

What are the chances of surviving a grizzly bear attack? I was in Y-stone a couple years ago exactly where and when a man was killed by a grizzly. Well, a couple miles away. My phone had countless texts and messages from people because I fit the description of the man. His wife survived. The bear just picked her up and threw her. So that day the chances were 50/50.
There are instructional videos and publications galore showing what to do if suddenly in the inevitable situation with a grizzly. I always had my super charged bear spray in easy reach. And I know that after that day I missed quite a few trout because I kept looking over my shoulder for bears.

Unfortunately they don't have an anti-alcohol spray. But they do have a lot of instructions and programs to help you overcome the addiction.
I know of at least one person who has survived more than one bear attack. He obviously knew what to do. But I'll bet he also knows how to avoid bears.
And takes every precaution available to do so. Third time may not be a charm.

If this sounds outrageous it was meant to be. Because knowing what alcohol can do to you yet you still gamble with it is just as outrageous. There may not be a "next time". Why chance it?

Mirage74

I think the concept of a bottom comes in. Some say you've reached your bottom when you quit digging. I've also heard some say you aren't going to quit till you've reached your bottom (subjectively speaking, everyone's is different). You can learn from relapses, but I definitely wouldn't recommend you relapse just to gain more experience. Like many have said, you might not make it back.

Sunshine14

I like your sobriety date too! Haha. Mine is July 4th. :-) Don't beat yourself up over your slip. Just keep moving forward and try to avoid alcohol in the future if that is what you want. I have started looking at alcohol as a gun with one bullet in it. One of these days (if I drink again) I am gonna pull the trigger and it's gonna kill me. Thank God I am still alive to have a CHANCE at sobriety. Seriously...thank you God b/c sometimes I wonder how I survived some of the things I did when I was drinking.

I agree with you...this disease kills many many people. I've lost a few good friends & family members. It was crazy to see them drink themselves to death & know they were dying....but they kept drinking. :-( One of them got so bad she would pray every night for God to let her die and she finally died when her liver and kidneys shut down (in her 40's). She left behind young children. Another person I know ended up jumping to his death because he just couldn't stay sober. (Suicide). :-( Lastly, one of my very dear friends died last fall and also left behind small children. She literally drank herself to death. I still remember the last hug I gave her. I somehow "knew" I would never see her again. :-( She was a skeleton by the end and very young. I miss her so much.

As I am typing this I am getting so angry! So angry at alcohol. So angry at addiction. So angry that it kills so many people & destroys so many lives.

Hang in there! Keep in touch. Our sobriety dates are very close.

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Sunshine14

Love this! Thank you for posting. Helped me a lot!

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