Couples session today
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Couples session today
So it went OK. She doesn't want to date anyone else, she wants to keep her ring on, she wants to date *me* (although her ideas about dating sound a little fantastical... She says there should be flowers, dressing up, trying to "impress" each other.... Not sure what that was about, although dates do sound nice!) We also talked about the various options for achieving this separation thing.... She's pushing for the separate housing idea, with a room for the kids, and I just am in such dread as to the expense and logistics involved with furnishing a whole new space.... And the idea of extending the kids' days in school to accommodate our needs for 'space' doesn't sit great with me.... But perhaps we can achieve want we want to achieve and disrupt the kids' schedule minimally, who knows.
I had some trouble saying I would be willing to commit to a year separation. I just couldn't say it. I said, we could get a year lease on a place (maybe) and then re-evaluate every three months perhaps, but I didn't want to go into this with the idea that we had to do it for a year no matter any other factors, just because.... Well.... Because it's a year! But in the end it seemed like my wife and I were able to talk about all the details and negotiate on the margins and were both flexible, which is good. Who knows - maybe I'll really get a lot out of this and decide a year is just what we need? What I don't want is for this to be too short a time for a separatism, OR too long, either way. Obsessing too much probably, I know.
The fact is my wife is right - it took the two of us 20 years to get to where we are now with our unhealthy dynamic, taking a year (or, at least, being prepared to take a year) is worth it in order to get things right between us.
I asked to come home tonight so I could sleep in my own bed. My wife said it was too soon for her to make other plans, I just said I wanted to sleep in my own bed, and I was *not* asking her to sleep elsewhere, that is up to her. But, in the end, I offered to stay an extra night in the hotel.
One thing at the session that I thought was very nice was my wife said she didn't like the idea of having me be the one to move out because of it "inconveniencing" me.... I actually thought that was very sweet of her and spoke volumes as to where her head was at about all of this... In hearing it, I wanted to suddenly offer to do it anyways, which I may do (although we may want to draw up a formal contractual separation agreement first, just so I feel more comfortable that I'm not giving up some custody or housing claim in the future should things go south between her and me in the future).
So, we'll see how this goes. More later. Still feeling more optimistic.
-DrS
I had some trouble saying I would be willing to commit to a year separation. I just couldn't say it. I said, we could get a year lease on a place (maybe) and then re-evaluate every three months perhaps, but I didn't want to go into this with the idea that we had to do it for a year no matter any other factors, just because.... Well.... Because it's a year! But in the end it seemed like my wife and I were able to talk about all the details and negotiate on the margins and were both flexible, which is good. Who knows - maybe I'll really get a lot out of this and decide a year is just what we need? What I don't want is for this to be too short a time for a separatism, OR too long, either way. Obsessing too much probably, I know.
The fact is my wife is right - it took the two of us 20 years to get to where we are now with our unhealthy dynamic, taking a year (or, at least, being prepared to take a year) is worth it in order to get things right between us.
I asked to come home tonight so I could sleep in my own bed. My wife said it was too soon for her to make other plans, I just said I wanted to sleep in my own bed, and I was *not* asking her to sleep elsewhere, that is up to her. But, in the end, I offered to stay an extra night in the hotel.
One thing at the session that I thought was very nice was my wife said she didn't like the idea of having me be the one to move out because of it "inconveniencing" me.... I actually thought that was very sweet of her and spoke volumes as to where her head was at about all of this... In hearing it, I wanted to suddenly offer to do it anyways, which I may do (although we may want to draw up a formal contractual separation agreement first, just so I feel more comfortable that I'm not giving up some custody or housing claim in the future should things go south between her and me in the future).
So, we'll see how this goes. More later. Still feeling more optimistic.
-DrS
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Kids are very adaptable. I think you're starting to understand the extra cost is a small price for your healing, her healing and your family having a strong foundation to it, no matter what the final outcome is. Look it as a vacation home that one of you happens to live at. 
I believe you both have a strong potential of finding your own healing and then working very well on your marriage. Don't force things. There will likely be an ebb and flow to this as all things have -- don't let the possible setbacks along the way worry you. We recently went through a period that I felt like was 10 steps backwards. Later on I looked at it as 1 step backwards and 3 steps forwards.
One day at a time.
I believe you both have a strong potential of finding your own healing and then working very well on your marriage. Don't force things. There will likely be an ebb and flow to this as all things have -- don't let the possible setbacks along the way worry you. We recently went through a period that I felt like was 10 steps backwards. Later on I looked at it as 1 step backwards and 3 steps forwards.
One day at a time.
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I asked to come home tonight so I could sleep in my own bed. My wife said it was too soon for her to make other plans, I just said I wanted to sleep in my own bed, and I was *not* asking her to sleep elsewhere, that is up to her. But, in the end, I offered to stay an extra night in the hotel.
lost me on this one, doc.
ever hear of "quit while you are ahead?"
doc, i know you must feel so out of control. anyone would. i get that.
i don't understand on what level does that question makes sense in your situation.....a year separation was discussed in detail, right?
and then that discussion is followed up with....but can i come home tonight?
huh?
lost me on this one, doc.
ever hear of "quit while you are ahead?"
doc, i know you must feel so out of control. anyone would. i get that.
i don't understand on what level does that question makes sense in your situation.....a year separation was discussed in detail, right?
and then that discussion is followed up with....but can i come home tonight?
huh?
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What happened to the nesting idea? Would seem that if funding is an issue the best idea would be the smallest apartment possible. Switching in and out if that place. What a huge pain in the ass but that way yiu both get to stay in your house and the children aren't disrupted with staying outside their home.
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Maybe slur if the moment today wasn't great timing but I don't see anything wrong with her staying in a hotel while you get to stay at home and be with the kids. I think she has made it real clear she does not want to stay under the same roof at night.
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My husband rented an already furnished studio apartment for himself on a 6 month lease, neither I nor our kids have ever been there. If we were going to proceed with divorce then he'd look for a place that could accomodate our kids too. For rent, utilities, insurance, etc. it's about an extra $1k a month for his separate accommodations. He now stays here on Fridays and Saturdays and our kids don't even notice that he isn't here during the week because he was only ever home for dinner during week nights anyway.
Honestly, the biggest adjustment was for him but being the only parent at home is no cake walk either. Once you're in an apartment and out of a motel you won't be complaining about the bed, and hopefully not the neighbors either.
I also want to date my husband too, because I'd like to enjoy being around him as a man and woman...not just as mom and dad and especially not fall back into the old alcoholic/codependent roles again either. I want to start over now that we're both building healthy foundations individually, I want to build a new healthy relationship foundation too. It's also pretty common marriage self help advice; to date your spouse.
Honestly, the biggest adjustment was for him but being the only parent at home is no cake walk either. Once you're in an apartment and out of a motel you won't be complaining about the bed, and hopefully not the neighbors either.
I also want to date my husband too, because I'd like to enjoy being around him as a man and woman...not just as mom and dad and especially not fall back into the old alcoholic/codependent roles again either. I want to start over now that we're both building healthy foundations individually, I want to build a new healthy relationship foundation too. It's also pretty common marriage self help advice; to date your spouse.
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I see a lot of positivity in this post Dr.S; lots of good communication. One thing I want to comment on - in an earlier post you defined yourself as being codependent. So I would think twice about acting on your impulse to volunteer to be the one to leave the home. I actually think the nesting idea sounds good in your situation as it sounds like your both currently on board with the idea of working on the marriage while being separated. Each of you taking time outside the home would shake things up, and bring in a different sense of independence for your wife also IMO. My son is a little younger than yours; but I think in a lot of ways rotating would give the kids the most stability and the marital home would still belong to both of you =in the emotional sense. Think about how you just said you miss sleeping in your own bed. maybe eating at your table, relaxing on your couch, playing with the kids in the yard... I would just give it some good thought and not act on an impulse that might be based on pleasing, protecting your wife, etc.
What did your therapist have to say about all this? Did she have any suggestions ?
Sounds like good news. Wishing you both the best.
What did your therapist have to say about all this? Did she have any suggestions ?
Sounds like good news. Wishing you both the best.
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Originally Posted by allforcnm 
I see a lot of positivity in this post Dr.S; lots of good communication. One thing I want to comment on - in an earlier post you defined yourself as being codependent. So I would think twice about acting on your impulse to volunteer to be the one to leave the home. I actually think the nesting idea sounds good in your situation as it sounds like your both currently on board with the idea of working on the marriage while being separated. Each of you taking time outside the home would shake things up, and bring in a different sense of independence for your wife also IMO. My son is a little younger than yours; but I think in a lot of ways rotating would give the kids the most stability and the marital home would still belong to both of you =in the emotional sense. Think about how you just said you miss sleeping in your own bed. maybe eating at your table, relaxing on your couch, playing with the kids in the yard... I would just give it some good thought and not act on an impulse that might be based on pleasing, protecting your wife, etc. What did your therapist have to say about all this? Did she have any suggestions ? Sounds like good news. Wishing you both the best.
Aside from that, we've agreed we want to date (and only each other), we'll probably have some weekly schedule where we each get two days entirely to ourselves for our own recovery work, therapy, or just to have "space," we'll switch off Saturdays with the kids, and the remaining days well do shared family time.
I'm not sure where this will lead us, but like my wife, I'm willing and able to remain optimistic. Again, the fact she seems to still have the same goals that I do is encouraging.
Told the kids last night. Kept it light, factual, and truthful - sometimes brothers and sisters fight and they need to spend time apart (like in their rooms) but that doesn't mean they don't love each other. Same thing with Mom and Dad. My six year old just accepted this explanation. - interestingly, his main concern was that this would cost "ten thousand dollars." I told him it will cost money, but we can make it work. Otherwise they both seemed nonplussed and matter of fact about things. My wife and I always seem to come together when it comes to issues with the kids. Good stuff.
Anyways, more later. I will probably be looking at some studios and rooms this weekend.
-DrS
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Or, you could rent somewhere that would accommodate you OR her. Whoever has the kids stays in the house with them.
That does get kind of expensive, sometimes. But if you two are planning on staying together, that may be the best bet-and the kids aren't losing out on the home they are used to anyway.
That does get kind of expensive, sometimes. But if you two are planning on staying together, that may be the best bet-and the kids aren't losing out on the home they are used to anyway.
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Originally Posted by inpieces314
Or, you could rent somewhere that would accommodate you OR her. Whoever has the kids stays in the house with them.
That does get kind of expensive, sometimes. But if you two are planning on staying together, that may be the best bet-and the kids aren't losing out on the home they are used to anyway.
That does get kind of expensive, sometimes. But if you two are planning on staying together, that may be the best bet-and the kids aren't losing out on the home they are used to anyway.
So that's were we are right now. Looking at a couple places this Saturday. The journey begins. More later.
-DrS
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Hi Doc,
I'm sure there are many ways this could work out. When I was little, my parents separated. Dad got a one-bedroom condo and put two queen beds in it. He also had a hide-a-bed couch in the living room for when all three of us kids would visit. I remember it worked out just fine. We were scheduled to spend every other weekend with him, but were allowed to spend more time there if we wanted. It was a mile away from our house, so we could easily walk to visit whenever we wanted. It was especially great because the condo had a pool and a ping-pong table!
I hope you find something that is comfortable for everyone, but especially for you!
Peace,
Fathom
I'm sure there are many ways this could work out. When I was little, my parents separated. Dad got a one-bedroom condo and put two queen beds in it. He also had a hide-a-bed couch in the living room for when all three of us kids would visit. I remember it worked out just fine. We were scheduled to spend every other weekend with him, but were allowed to spend more time there if we wanted. It was a mile away from our house, so we could easily walk to visit whenever we wanted. It was especially great because the condo had a pool and a ping-pong table!
I hope you find something that is comfortable for everyone, but especially for you!
Peace,
Fathom
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Your new place could also be a great "get away" place for you and your wife after one of those romantic date nights....in time. Buy some candles too.
I understand her wants (dressing up, etc). I always loved "refalling" in love with my husband.
We switched off on the planning of our date nights. Great memories !! Sadly, my husband relapsed and has not yet made it back.
Anyway, try and capture new memories and new feelings. We had a no kid, no money or work talk rule and had a blast.
Do you have any ideas?
I understand her wants (dressing up, etc). I always loved "refalling" in love with my husband.
We switched off on the planning of our date nights. Great memories !! Sadly, my husband relapsed and has not yet made it back.
Anyway, try and capture new memories and new feelings. We had a no kid, no money or work talk rule and had a blast.
Do you have any ideas?
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Originally Posted by LoveMeNow
Your new place could also be a great "get away" place for you and your wife after one of those romantic date nights....in time. Buy some candles too.
I understand her wants (dressing up, etc). I always loved "refalling" in love with my husband.
We switched off on the planning of our date nights. Great memories !! Sadly, my husband relapsed and has not yet made it back.
Anyway, try and capture new memories and new feelings. We had a no kid, no money or work talk rule and had a blast.
Do you have any ideas?
I understand her wants (dressing up, etc). I always loved "refalling" in love with my husband.
We switched off on the planning of our date nights. Great memories !! Sadly, my husband relapsed and has not yet made it back.
Anyway, try and capture new memories and new feelings. We had a no kid, no money or work talk rule and had a blast.
Do you have any ideas?
Well, I like the no kid, no money, no work talk idea. I like the idea of date nights - I really do. However, there's a part I don't like about it to - it feels like I'm being tested (perhaps I shouldn't think of it this way) - but it's like the idea is I'm being asked to 'court' her, and if I don't do a good enough job, well, my fault, and you fail. I don't like that.
My wife and I will talk about it more on Monday (another couples session).
-DrS
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Doc, with respect, you are very invested in controlling how all this turns out, which is a red flag for me. Unfortunately -- or fortunately! -- you can't control her feelings, whether or not she loves and is attracted to you, and whether or not she wants to stay with you. You are, despite all your legal ties, a guy that really stepped in sh** and needs to make it right.
Go on a few dates. Buy the flowers. Pay the compliments. Court your wife. Rebuild trust. Show her you're committed to your sobriety, and not just negotiating who sleeps where when. Get the studio apartment. You're still very young in your recovery. Have you learned to submit to the process yet?
Go on a few dates. Buy the flowers. Pay the compliments. Court your wife. Rebuild trust. Show her you're committed to your sobriety, and not just negotiating who sleeps where when. Get the studio apartment. You're still very young in your recovery. Have you learned to submit to the process yet?
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Also, your wife is also in recovery, yes? She deserves to put her sobriety first, too, not be forced to constantly renegotiate her extremely clear boundaries. Respectfully, I think your negotiations here are a fear of change, and a fear of losing her, and are not rooted in mutual recovery.
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I'm taking the other advice I've heard here. Hold on loosely. Work on myself. Have an open mind. And I'm going to trust my wife's instincts. This separation is as much about me deciding on the direction the future takes as it is about her doing the same. That's all I'm saying.
Perhaps, Florence, that says terrible things, red flags, etc. about my personal self-improvement work ("recovery"), respect for her boundaries, etc....? All right. That's OK. I leave myself open to be judged when I introspect so openly here.
-DrS
Perhaps, Florence, that says terrible things, red flags, etc. about my personal self-improvement work ("recovery"), respect for her boundaries, etc....? All right. That's OK. I leave myself open to be judged when I introspect so openly here.
-DrS
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Originally Posted by DocSobrietist
I'm taking the other advice I've heard here. Hold on loosely. Work on myself. Have an open mind. And I'm going to trust my wife's instincts. This separation is as much about me deciding on the direction the future takes as it is about her doing the same. That's all I'm saying.
Perhaps, Florence, that says terrible things, red flags, etc. about my personal self-improvement work ("recovery"), respect for her boundaries, etc....? All right. That's OK. I leave myself open to be judged when I introspect so openly here.
-DrS
Perhaps, Florence, that says terrible things, red flags, etc. about my personal self-improvement work ("recovery"), respect for her boundaries, etc....? All right. That's OK. I leave myself open to be judged when I introspect so openly here.
-DrS
I have been following your thread, I don't think Florence is saying terrible things about you, she is giving you a view from the outside.
Sometimes when we are in the middle of chaos it's almost impossible to see our part in it.
I believe that is all she is trying to point out
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Doc...if you think about it....the dating period for a couple IS kind of testing (on both sides). A period of time spent together to find out how each one feels about the other being in the company of the other. Experiencing enjoyment is a big part of the dating experience. Both of you will need to experience real enjoyment. The key word is MUTUALITY.
dandylion
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Originally Posted by littlesister1
Hi Doc
I have been following your thread, I don't think Florence is saying terrible things about you, she is giving you a view from the outside.
Sometimes when we are in the middle of chaos it's almost impossible to see our part in it.
I believe that is all she is trying to point out
I have been following your thread, I don't think Florence is saying terrible things about you, she is giving you a view from the outside.
Sometimes when we are in the middle of chaos it's almost impossible to see our part in it.
I believe that is all she is trying to point out
I want things to work out with my wife. I will survive if it doesn't work out.
-DrS
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Doc...if you think about it....the dating period for a couple IS kind of testing (on both sides). A period of time spent together to find out how each one feels about the other being in the company of the other. Experiencing enjoyment is a big part of the dating experience. Both of you will need to experience real enjoyment. The key word is MUTUALITY.
dandylion
dandylion
-DrS
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