Coping with Guilt and Shame
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 383
Coping with Guilt and Shame
Hi all - Happy New Year!
I wanted to put a conundrum to my AA friends and see what experience you can provide. I have a friend in AA who is really struggling with the guilt of his drinking past. I ordered a good book on guilt and shame which I hope will help me and him sift through his issue, but in the meantime I'd be interested in hearing how you have overcome guilt and shame in your own lives.
I was blessed to be able to accept my own shame and guilt and to allow steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 (and God's grace) to do their thing. But my friend feels very badly about his two young kids and how he believes they have been affected by his divorce and feels responsible for perceived damage that just isn't there - they are very young (3 and 6) and I keep telling him they will adjust as long as he establishes a healthy new life in sobriety and remains available to them as a sober, loving dad.
His marriage fell apart like many of ours do when we are drinking, but although he is sober he is still clinging to his ex for acceptance and a feeling of "normalcy" I think. He feels bad about how "hard" life is for her, and remains engaged in her affairs - babysitting, discussing plans, finances, covering for her when she is dating - without a plan or solid custody agreement. I really feel his guilt and/or shame is the motivator in all this. He allows her to manipulate him with shame, and constantly reminds him that he is "not well." She's not a bad person, but he really needs a clean break so he can sweep his side of the street and get busy living in the present!
He is almost two years sober but not living happy, joyous and free like we can when we work the steps. Do you think doing another inventory is in order? Do you have any experience you can share? Thanks!
I wanted to put a conundrum to my AA friends and see what experience you can provide. I have a friend in AA who is really struggling with the guilt of his drinking past. I ordered a good book on guilt and shame which I hope will help me and him sift through his issue, but in the meantime I'd be interested in hearing how you have overcome guilt and shame in your own lives.
I was blessed to be able to accept my own shame and guilt and to allow steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 (and God's grace) to do their thing. But my friend feels very badly about his two young kids and how he believes they have been affected by his divorce and feels responsible for perceived damage that just isn't there - they are very young (3 and 6) and I keep telling him they will adjust as long as he establishes a healthy new life in sobriety and remains available to them as a sober, loving dad.
His marriage fell apart like many of ours do when we are drinking, but although he is sober he is still clinging to his ex for acceptance and a feeling of "normalcy" I think. He feels bad about how "hard" life is for her, and remains engaged in her affairs - babysitting, discussing plans, finances, covering for her when she is dating - without a plan or solid custody agreement. I really feel his guilt and/or shame is the motivator in all this. He allows her to manipulate him with shame, and constantly reminds him that he is "not well." She's not a bad person, but he really needs a clean break so he can sweep his side of the street and get busy living in the present!
He is almost two years sober but not living happy, joyous and free like we can when we work the steps. Do you think doing another inventory is in order? Do you have any experience you can share? Thanks!
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
my experience as a long-ago divorced mother is that there is no such thing as a "clean break" when there are children that still need to be raised. nor is there such a thing as "babysitting" one's own children 
.
this doesn't need to stop someone from doing whatever with his own side of the street.
.this doesn't need to stop someone from doing whatever with his own side of the street.
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
You say "he needs to make a clean break so he can clean up his side of the street." Until he realizes this, he has to do what he has to do. Instead of focusing on guilt and shame, he might take a look at self-pity and self-centeredness. It's in the Big Book on pages 62 and 63. Feeling guilty and being ashamed of having alcoholism is a waste of time. It solves nothing. He'll be a lot better off focusing on not drinking and working the steps. It all boils down to making decisions, and we all have to live with those decisions.
My wife and I were married 15 years when we both came to AA. We both had much the same guilt and shame as your friend and so many others. We also had 3 children, the oldest of which was 12. We were both told to walk our own path, clean up our own sides of the street, put the past in the past and stay out of each other's programs. This past Sunday, we celebrated our 51st anniversary. We were fortunate in that we both had people in AA who cared about us enough to tell us what we needed to hear, and we trusted them and followed directions. Just one more thing. Although I understand your position here and know you're trying to help, take care of yourself first so you don't get lost in the process.
My wife and I were married 15 years when we both came to AA. We both had much the same guilt and shame as your friend and so many others. We also had 3 children, the oldest of which was 12. We were both told to walk our own path, clean up our own sides of the street, put the past in the past and stay out of each other's programs. This past Sunday, we celebrated our 51st anniversary. We were fortunate in that we both had people in AA who cared about us enough to tell us what we needed to hear, and we trusted them and followed directions. Just one more thing. Although I understand your position here and know you're trying to help, take care of yourself first so you don't get lost in the process.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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Originally Posted by Climber122 
Hi all - Happy New Year!
I wanted to put a conundrum to my AA friends and see what experience you can provide. I have a friend in AA who is really struggling with the guilt of his drinking past. I ordered a good book on guilt and shame which I hope will help me and him sift through his issue, but in the meantime I'd be interested in hearing how you have overcome guilt and shame in your own lives.
I was blessed to be able to accept my own shame and guilt and to allow steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 (and God's grace) to do their thing. But my friend feels very badly about his two young kids and how he believes they have been affected by his divorce and feels responsible for perceived damage that just isn't there - they are very young (3 and 6) and I keep telling him they will adjust as long as he establishes a healthy new life in sobriety and remains available to them as a sober, loving dad.
His marriage fell apart like many of ours do when we are drinking, but although he is sober he is still clinging to his ex for acceptance and a feeling of "normalcy" I think. He feels bad about how "hard" life is for her, and remains engaged in her affairs - babysitting, discussing plans, finances, covering for her when she is dating - without a plan or solid custody agreement. I really feel his guilt and/or shame is the motivator in all this. He allows her to manipulate him with shame, and constantly reminds him that he is "not well." She's not a bad person, but he really needs a clean break so he can sweep his side of the street and get busy living in the present!
He is almost two years sober but not living happy, joyous and free like we can when we work the steps. Do you think doing another inventory is in order? Do you have any experience you can share? Thanks!
I wanted to put a conundrum to my AA friends and see what experience you can provide. I have a friend in AA who is really struggling with the guilt of his drinking past. I ordered a good book on guilt and shame which I hope will help me and him sift through his issue, but in the meantime I'd be interested in hearing how you have overcome guilt and shame in your own lives.
I was blessed to be able to accept my own shame and guilt and to allow steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 (and God's grace) to do their thing. But my friend feels very badly about his two young kids and how he believes they have been affected by his divorce and feels responsible for perceived damage that just isn't there - they are very young (3 and 6) and I keep telling him they will adjust as long as he establishes a healthy new life in sobriety and remains available to them as a sober, loving dad.
His marriage fell apart like many of ours do when we are drinking, but although he is sober he is still clinging to his ex for acceptance and a feeling of "normalcy" I think. He feels bad about how "hard" life is for her, and remains engaged in her affairs - babysitting, discussing plans, finances, covering for her when she is dating - without a plan or solid custody agreement. I really feel his guilt and/or shame is the motivator in all this. He allows her to manipulate him with shame, and constantly reminds him that he is "not well." She's not a bad person, but he really needs a clean break so he can sweep his side of the street and get busy living in the present!
He is almost two years sober but not living happy, joyous and free like we can when we work the steps. Do you think doing another inventory is in order? Do you have any experience you can share? Thanks!
Reading a book about guilt and shame leads me to keep thinking about my self, my past, my wrongs...my bog of self pity.
I would suggest that you encourage your friend to be in service to others.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 383
Thanks for your responses all - thanks Music for the suggestion to look at self-pity - I will refer him to 62 and 63 and see how that sits, and try to encourage him to get more into his program - that's good advice. I will indeed keep care of myself too. I have learned to release the results of helping others to God - I do what I can and let go after that.
Kyrie - service is indeed a great idea - I had suggested he start making coffee or volunteer for setup/teardown. He may or may not take the suggestion though...
Sugarbear - that is EXACTLY the book I ordered - thanks! I am getting it more for me to process and being able to understand that aspect of the disease, since guilt is something I don't struggle with.
Fini - I know divorce can be messy - done that with 4 kids myself! So I'm not trying to excuse him from his responsibility as a parent, just keep him from beating himself up because he can't make things as "clean" as he wants. Thanks for you input.
Kyrie - service is indeed a great idea - I had suggested he start making coffee or volunteer for setup/teardown. He may or may not take the suggestion though...
Sugarbear - that is EXACTLY the book I ordered - thanks! I am getting it more for me to process and being able to understand that aspect of the disease, since guilt is something I don't struggle with.
Fini - I know divorce can be messy - done that with 4 kids myself! So I'm not trying to excuse him from his responsibility as a parent, just keep him from beating himself up because he can't make things as "clean" as he wants. Thanks for you input.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by Climber122
Hi all - Happy New Year!
I wanted to put a conundrum to my AA friends and see what experience you can provide. I have a friend in AA who is really struggling with the guilt of his drinking past. I ordered a good book on guilt and shame which I hope will help me and him sift through his issue, but in the meantime I'd be interested in hearing how you have overcome guilt and shame in your own lives.
I was blessed to be able to accept my own shame and guilt and to allow steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 (and God's grace) to do their thing. But my friend feels very badly about his two young kids and how he believes they have been affected by his divorce and feels responsible for perceived damage that just isn't there - they are very young (3 and 6) and I keep telling him they will adjust as long as he establishes a healthy new life in sobriety and remains available to them as a sober, loving dad.
His marriage fell apart like many of ours do when we are drinking, but although he is sober he is still clinging to his ex for acceptance and a feeling of "normalcy" I think. He feels bad about how "hard" life is for her, and remains engaged in her affairs - babysitting, discussing plans, finances, covering for her when she is dating - without a plan or solid custody agreement. I really feel his guilt and/or shame is the motivator in all this. He allows her to manipulate him with shame, and constantly reminds him that he is "not well." She's not a bad person, but he really needs a clean break so he can sweep his side of the street and get busy living in the present!
He is almost two years sober but not living happy, joyous and free like we can when we work the steps. Do you think doing another inventory is in order? Do you have any experience you can share? Thanks!
I wanted to put a conundrum to my AA friends and see what experience you can provide. I have a friend in AA who is really struggling with the guilt of his drinking past. I ordered a good book on guilt and shame which I hope will help me and him sift through his issue, but in the meantime I'd be interested in hearing how you have overcome guilt and shame in your own lives.
I was blessed to be able to accept my own shame and guilt and to allow steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 (and God's grace) to do their thing. But my friend feels very badly about his two young kids and how he believes they have been affected by his divorce and feels responsible for perceived damage that just isn't there - they are very young (3 and 6) and I keep telling him they will adjust as long as he establishes a healthy new life in sobriety and remains available to them as a sober, loving dad.
His marriage fell apart like many of ours do when we are drinking, but although he is sober he is still clinging to his ex for acceptance and a feeling of "normalcy" I think. He feels bad about how "hard" life is for her, and remains engaged in her affairs - babysitting, discussing plans, finances, covering for her when she is dating - without a plan or solid custody agreement. I really feel his guilt and/or shame is the motivator in all this. He allows her to manipulate him with shame, and constantly reminds him that he is "not well." She's not a bad person, but he really needs a clean break so he can sweep his side of the street and get busy living in the present!
He is almost two years sober but not living happy, joyous and free like we can when we work the steps. Do you think doing another inventory is in order? Do you have any experience you can share? Thanks!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
The great thing about AA and working the steps is that I found out there are things I have no business feeling guilty about. When I consumed alcohol, I became drugged. That's not an excuse, it's a fact. When a person is drugged, they do things they wouldn't normally do. I may owe some amends for my actions but to beat myself up feeling guilty isn't constructive. It's destructive! So, I was able to distinguish between the two which helped me to deal with those feelings of guilt. Shame is different. I think shame stems from the idea that somehow I'm flawed. There's something wrong with me that isn't wrong with everyone else. What's different about me is that I'm an alcoholic and that's not my fault! Take away the alcohol and I'm the same as everyone else. I should feel guilty if I discover that I'm alcoholic, and have a list of my defects of character and then continue the same behavior as I did when drinking. So, there's REAL guilt and guilt from feeling sorry for myself. The trick is to figure out which is which.
Trudger of Happy Destiny
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,918
Guilt and shame...I struggle with this as well. I can really get down on myself for the past and relive it over and over again. This is my disease just fueling itself and literally manufacturing misery that doesn't need to be there. Know that, though, doesn't change my obsessive tendencies to dwell...I'll be dwelling then get moments of clarity that it isn't helping and refocus for the time being.
This passage helps a lot - big book p. 133 - "We are sure God wants us to be happy, joyous, and free. We cannot subscribe to the belief that this life is a vale of tears, though it once was just that for many of us. But it is clear that we made our own misery. God didn't do it. Avoid then, the deliberate manufacture of misery, but if trouble comes, cheerfully capitalize it as an opportunity to demonstrate His omnipotence."
This passage helps a lot - big book p. 133 - "We are sure God wants us to be happy, joyous, and free. We cannot subscribe to the belief that this life is a vale of tears, though it once was just that for many of us. But it is clear that we made our own misery. God didn't do it. Avoid then, the deliberate manufacture of misery, but if trouble comes, cheerfully capitalize it as an opportunity to demonstrate His omnipotence."
Recovered
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,129
Guilt and shame. Just ego-centric excuses to drink for me. I don't have room for them in my life, so I release them. They are on the same list of excuses as self-pity, low self-esteem, blah blah, the list is endless.
The best thing I do is to live a life based on AA principles and I can hold my head up and go anywhere. I no longer scrape before anyone, especially my own ego.
The best thing I do is to live a life based on AA principles and I can hold my head up and go anywhere. I no longer scrape before anyone, especially my own ego.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,785
At nine months sober I just realized that I was still looking for a happy ending in my past relationships. Not one or two but all of them.
The father of my children is dead, he died of alcoholism, and while my ending with him was long ago, I still was hanging on to a happy ending for our children.
It sort of hit me this week, I think because of the new year, that I had been doing that. Hoping for a happy ending instead of letting go. I was hanging on because I was still trying to control the outcome.
I have come to the conclusion that I am not responsible for the happiness of others and it is time to let go of that need for a happy ending and direct my attention at new beginnings.
I will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. I can look back and see my mistakes and were and when I was wrong so I don't make them again, not to hang on hoping that I can one day fix it. I have made my amends for my mistakes and it time I leave them in the past were they belong.
The father of my children is dead, he died of alcoholism, and while my ending with him was long ago, I still was hanging on to a happy ending for our children.
It sort of hit me this week, I think because of the new year, that I had been doing that. Hoping for a happy ending instead of letting go. I was hanging on because I was still trying to control the outcome.
I have come to the conclusion that I am not responsible for the happiness of others and it is time to let go of that need for a happy ending and direct my attention at new beginnings.
I will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. I can look back and see my mistakes and were and when I was wrong so I don't make them again, not to hang on hoping that I can one day fix it. I have made my amends for my mistakes and it time I leave them in the past were they belong.
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
GL, I had the same experience when my dad died. Four hours after I talked to him on the phone to tell him he was going to be a grandpa for the first time, he had a massive heart attack, at 49 years old. I have no idea how much I hated God for doing that to ME, or how much that affected my attitude about drinking, but when I reached about 3 years without a drink, it dawned on me how selfish I was because his death didn't fit into my plan for living. If only he had lived...blah, blah. I probably used his death as a pretty good excuse to get drunk a few times. All I know is when I realized where my feelings were coming from and why, I made peace and moved on. He was a great guy and I still love him. I'm so grateful that my wife was able to meet him. He's her guardian angel and she knows she will see him again some day.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 891
I see blessings here, the man is sober, he is keeping it together and he is involved with his kids. Could be a lot worse.
If he feels this bad he must be a bloody good Dad because it shows he cares a lot.
I have two kids as well and fortunately my disease was arrested before separation happened. I still had to face how my drinking and behavior had affected my marriage and relationship with my kids. I'm still married and I'm still making amends as best I can by trying to be a better man, living by principles as my higher power would want me to live.
Its a long process but it really started by forgiving myself. If God could forgive me and give me another chance then I won't refuse that by not forgiving myself and letting go of guilt. Holding onto the past through guilt and shame was going to make amends difficult, honesty unlikely and relapse certain. Just tell the man there is no shame in forgiving one self and loving ones self and letting go, that he is worthy of it.
If he feels this bad he must be a bloody good Dad because it shows he cares a lot.
I have two kids as well and fortunately my disease was arrested before separation happened. I still had to face how my drinking and behavior had affected my marriage and relationship with my kids. I'm still married and I'm still making amends as best I can by trying to be a better man, living by principles as my higher power would want me to live.
Its a long process but it really started by forgiving myself. If God could forgive me and give me another chance then I won't refuse that by not forgiving myself and letting go of guilt. Holding onto the past through guilt and shame was going to make amends difficult, honesty unlikely and relapse certain. Just tell the man there is no shame in forgiving one self and loving ones self and letting go, that he is worthy of it.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,323
Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today
Every spiritual being having a human experience has a higher power and it is not me.
I am sick trying to get well, not bad trying to get good.
I stopped drinking alcohol and mood altering drugs in 1986, and have been living the AA program to the best of my ability one day at a time.
I make restitution for harm done whenever possible by the way I live today.
Sandy B. made his "Drop the Rock" talk in 1976, and he just celebrated 49 years of sobriety on Dec. 7, 2013. He is currently a single man with a number of divorces.
If old timers like Sandy and me can't always drop the rock Climber122, I am afraid your friend will have to work his program cause it works when you work it.
I am sick trying to get well, not bad trying to get good.
I stopped drinking alcohol and mood altering drugs in 1986, and have been living the AA program to the best of my ability one day at a time.
I make restitution for harm done whenever possible by the way I live today.
Sandy B. made his "Drop the Rock" talk in 1976, and he just celebrated 49 years of sobriety on Dec. 7, 2013. He is currently a single man with a number of divorces.
If old timers like Sandy and me can't always drop the rock Climber122, I am afraid your friend will have to work his program cause it works when you work it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 383
Thank you one and all for your thoughtful and valuable wisdom. I'm going to send him the link to this thread so he can read through it all. This kind of support is exactly why AA is so wonderful! You all are great, and know that you are really helping out a fellow drunk today - Happy New Year!
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