Sobriety?
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kendal, Cumbria UK
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Sobriety?
As I've mentioned on here, my wife is drinking 1.5 bottles of 12% ABV Cava every other night. This begs the question: is she ever actually sober? She doesn't look drunk and only sounds it at about the end of bottle no. 1. Later, she can be staggering and slurring.
So, in a petite woman, how fast is this amount of alcohol processed?
By the way - just been to 4th Al-Anon meeting in a row. So many familiar stories. Frighteningly, one group member and his wife share the same first names. It's frightening because his wife is dead. She passed on 3 weeks ago, after chronic abuse of vodka. So very sad but I can tell the man's also relieved.
Snood
So, in a petite woman, how fast is this amount of alcohol processed?
By the way - just been to 4th Al-Anon meeting in a row. So many familiar stories. Frighteningly, one group member and his wife share the same first names. It's frightening because his wife is dead. She passed on 3 weeks ago, after chronic abuse of vodka. So very sad but I can tell the man's also relieved.
Snood
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Ok... over how long does she drink the bottle?
I mean, I'm sure she's "sober" the next afternoon, but she's still in a alcohol induced fog.
So whether she's ever sober or not, I can't know. None of us know what she drinks aside from what you've seen and reported here. What matters most to me: What's bothering you? How are you feeling about her drinking? Is her drinking something you can live with?
I mean, I'm sure she's "sober" the next afternoon, but she's still in a alcohol induced fog.
So whether she's ever sober or not, I can't know. None of us know what she drinks aside from what you've seen and reported here. What matters most to me: What's bothering you? How are you feeling about her drinking? Is her drinking something you can live with?
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Originally Posted by RhodeIsland 
Ok... over how long does she drink the bottle?
I mean, I'm sure she's "sober" the next afternoon, but she's still in a alcohol induced fog.
So whether she's ever sober or not, I can't know. None of us know what she drinks aside from what you've seen and reported here. What matters most to me: What's bothering you? How are you feeling about her drinking? Is her drinking something you can live with?
I mean, I'm sure she's "sober" the next afternoon, but she's still in a alcohol induced fog.
So whether she's ever sober or not, I can't know. None of us know what she drinks aside from what you've seen and reported here. What matters most to me: What's bothering you? How are you feeling about her drinking? Is her drinking something you can live with?
Her drinking is definitely something I could live without. I'm honestly hoping she experiences a reversible health condition before any permanent damage is done. The thought of what the outcome might be scares me.
Any mention of the amount she uses, or of the drinking she does is a capital offence. She is unaware that I'm on here, go to a Drug and Alcohol advice counsellor and to Al-Anon meetings.
I'm also sick of having two wives, specifically dealing with the nasty one. Quantitatively, her alcohol tolerance is very high - it generally takes still more for even a hangover to occur. But when one does...I have to be the nurse.
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A bottle and a half will certainly get her trashed, being a petite woman. It's definitely not healthy for her. I'm on the petite side and when I have in the past drank that much I was drunk. Every other day her body and liver don't have time to completely catch up. It will definitely have adverse affects over time, but that time could take a decade, or more, or less, depending entirely on her body.
Is she ever sober? It isn't really a question I can answer. Alcohol distorts thinking. What I can say is that as long as she drinks like that every other day, she never really thinks like a sober person. She may be sober, but it's the thinking like one that is missing. Think of drunk and sober as opposites on a pendulum. Her thinking doesn't have enough time to swing completely back to sober, before she's at it again.
When the nasty wife shows up, it may be time to excuse yourself from the room. There's no reason for you to put up with that. Take care of yourself when the evil twin shows up.
Is she ever sober? It isn't really a question I can answer. Alcohol distorts thinking. What I can say is that as long as she drinks like that every other day, she never really thinks like a sober person. She may be sober, but it's the thinking like one that is missing. Think of drunk and sober as opposites on a pendulum. Her thinking doesn't have enough time to swing completely back to sober, before she's at it again.
When the nasty wife shows up, it may be time to excuse yourself from the room. There's no reason for you to put up with that. Take care of yourself when the evil twin shows up.
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You might feel guilty if you don't play nurse, but it really isn't your responsibility. She might try to give you grief about it if you don't play nurse, but that's just her nasty disease talking. What do you think might happen if you let her fend for herself?
I know I'm not answering your original question, but it seems that others have done pretty well at that. I hope you can see that I say these things gently. I only want you to feel free of a burden that you didn't create.
I know I'm not answering your original question, but it seems that others have done pretty well at that. I hope you can see that I say these things gently. I only want you to feel free of a burden that you didn't create.
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Well, I found this quite useful...
BAC (blood alcohol content) calculator
...because it shows the timings of both her getting drunk and getting back to a (more) sober state. Last night's calculation shows that she'd been approaching sober by about 6pm the night after the binge. This evening, it's been one and a half bottles of 12%, plus grief.
Her seeming evidently drunk is fairly rare. I see staggering, I hear slurring, I am asked the same question five times over. However, the evil twin can be only too obvious. There can be anger, swearing, the occasional throwing of things and, rarely, a hit for me. She's never physically hurts me.
I think she's drinking out of frustration. She has a daughter in this country who is a 'paranoid schizophrenic.' Excuse the apostrophes but I find it hard to believe that someone can't use a vacuum cleaner, cook properly or use a washing machine can go on holiday in the US by air. In fact "...all she can do is go on holiday." (I'm quoting my wife here). Oh, and stepdaughter can eat...she's morbidly obese. What she won't do is get any better.
What I'm trying to find out is if the evil twin, who can appear in the daytime, is there because the alcohol is always at work. The daytime evil twin can be coped with but will turn into a monster post-drinking.
Food for thought in a very difficult situation.
BAC (blood alcohol content) calculator
...because it shows the timings of both her getting drunk and getting back to a (more) sober state. Last night's calculation shows that she'd been approaching sober by about 6pm the night after the binge. This evening, it's been one and a half bottles of 12%, plus grief.
Her seeming evidently drunk is fairly rare. I see staggering, I hear slurring, I am asked the same question five times over. However, the evil twin can be only too obvious. There can be anger, swearing, the occasional throwing of things and, rarely, a hit for me. She's never physically hurts me.
I think she's drinking out of frustration. She has a daughter in this country who is a 'paranoid schizophrenic.' Excuse the apostrophes but I find it hard to believe that someone can't use a vacuum cleaner, cook properly or use a washing machine can go on holiday in the US by air. In fact "...all she can do is go on holiday." (I'm quoting my wife here). Oh, and stepdaughter can eat...she's morbidly obese. What she won't do is get any better.
What I'm trying to find out is if the evil twin, who can appear in the daytime, is there because the alcohol is always at work. The daytime evil twin can be coped with but will turn into a monster post-drinking.
Food for thought in a very difficult situation.
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Hi Snood, I would ask you to consider being completely honest with her regarding the way you feel, Alanon and the fact that you don't intend to 'nurse' her when she has a hangover.
While she has the right to drink, you also have the right to how you react to her drinking. She won't like it of course, but at the moment she's dominating the conversation ie she's using intimidation to stop you being honest about your emotional life.
What would be the consequence if you say 'While I respect your right to drink, I have the right to stay healthy. I need to see a counsellor and attend Alanon for my own ability to cope with your drinking; that's my business.'
She could yell and quack, but at least you've drawn your line in the sand and you're not pretending her drinking only affects herself.
While she has the right to drink, you also have the right to how you react to her drinking. She won't like it of course, but at the moment she's dominating the conversation ie she's using intimidation to stop you being honest about your emotional life.
What would be the consequence if you say 'While I respect your right to drink, I have the right to stay healthy. I need to see a counsellor and attend Alanon for my own ability to cope with your drinking; that's my business.'
She could yell and quack, but at least you've drawn your line in the sand and you're not pretending her drinking only affects herself.
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Thank you, FeelingGreat,
I've never made any secret of the fact that her drinking like a man upsets me.
If I mention this, I'm warned to "back off" - I very much doubt her liver/kidneys/pancreas/stomach will take this indefinitely for an answer.
Your advice mirrors what several folk have told me recently. I was on the verge
of telling her about Al-Anon and that my counsellor is a alcohol/drug specialist. I got scared off because I really couldn't stand another rant, even from her (more) sober self.
I know I'll have to develop some courage but must pick the time.
I've never made any secret of the fact that her drinking like a man upsets me.
If I mention this, I'm warned to "back off" - I very much doubt her liver/kidneys/pancreas/stomach will take this indefinitely for an answer.
Your advice mirrors what several folk have told me recently. I was on the verge
of telling her about Al-Anon and that my counsellor is a alcohol/drug specialist. I got scared off because I really couldn't stand another rant, even from her (more) sober self.
I know I'll have to develop some courage but must pick the time.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Posts: 6,047
Originally Posted by Snood
I got scared off because I really couldn't stand another rant, even from her (more) sober self.
She's got used to you being scared of her tantrums, and that's why she uses them. Kind of like a toddler who knows their parents will cave if they have a tantrum.
I don't want to minimise the courage it would take to tell her because you're both used to the status quo; one screams, the other backs down. But the times you've stood up to her have had very positive results.
What works for me is to imagine what the reaction will be. Imagine the rant, the things she'll say, and then think about why she's saying them. She's just sticking to the usual script, and you're deviating from the script! That's not right!
You can detach from the ranting, refuse to engage. After all drinking is HER business, how you look after yourself is YOUR business. Then feel free to say I'm just going out to Alanon, be back in an hour. I'm actually smiling, thinking about the look on her face.
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Originally Posted by FeelingGreat
Hi, the 'scared' bit stood out for me. There should be no fear in an adult relationship.
She's got used to you being scared of her tantrums, and that's why she uses them. Kind of like a toddler who knows their parents will cave if they have a tantrum.
I don't want to minimise the courage it would take to tell her because you're both used to the status quo; one screams, the other backs down. But the times you've stood up to her have had very positive results.
What works for me is to imagine what the reaction will be. Imagine the rant, the things she'll say, and then think about why she's saying them. She's just sticking to the usual script, and you're deviating from the script! That's not right!
You can detach from the ranting, refuse to engage. After all drinking is HER business, how you look after yourself is YOUR business. Then feel free to say I'm just going out to Alanon, be back in an hour. I'm actually smiling, thinking about the look on her face.
She's got used to you being scared of her tantrums, and that's why she uses them. Kind of like a toddler who knows their parents will cave if they have a tantrum.
I don't want to minimise the courage it would take to tell her because you're both used to the status quo; one screams, the other backs down. But the times you've stood up to her have had very positive results.
What works for me is to imagine what the reaction will be. Imagine the rant, the things she'll say, and then think about why she's saying them. She's just sticking to the usual script, and you're deviating from the script! That's not right!
You can detach from the ranting, refuse to engage. After all drinking is HER business, how you look after yourself is YOUR business. Then feel free to say I'm just going out to Alanon, be back in an hour. I'm actually smiling, thinking about the look on her face.
I think I shouldn't have used the word 'scared'...'uncomfortable' would've been much more appropriate. In the past, she has used other things which undermine my contentment as bargaining chips. In practice, she has yet to carry out her threats...it's a concern of mine, given the alcohol abuse and its potential effect on this aspect.
I'm a very patient person, which helps a lot, but I won't be a doormat
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It's not at all uncommon for women who are long time alcoholics to die in their 30's. I see this regularly in my profession. I'm pretty sure the body of an adult is able to metabolize about one ounce of hard liquor an hour regardless if the size of the person.
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Just my experience but I thought I would share:
My husband is a fairly big guy. Right before he went to detox, what I saw him drinking was about a handle of liquor every 3-ish days (I was actually tracking how much was being consumed because I was starting to document for divorce/custody purposes). That was what I saw - he was also apparently drinking stuff not in the open.
When he checked in to detox, he had run out of liquor sometime that morning, he checked in sometime in the early evening, and they made him do a breathalyzer on check in. He blew a .157 - almost twice the legal limit for driving hours after he stopped drinking....I shudder to think what he was probably running at any point on any given day, since he was also using benzos to ward off withdrawal symptoms so he could function without drinking at work.
My husband is a fairly big guy. Right before he went to detox, what I saw him drinking was about a handle of liquor every 3-ish days (I was actually tracking how much was being consumed because I was starting to document for divorce/custody purposes). That was what I saw - he was also apparently drinking stuff not in the open.
When he checked in to detox, he had run out of liquor sometime that morning, he checked in sometime in the early evening, and they made him do a breathalyzer on check in. He blew a .157 - almost twice the legal limit for driving hours after he stopped drinking....I shudder to think what he was probably running at any point on any given day, since he was also using benzos to ward off withdrawal symptoms so he could function without drinking at work.
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Originally Posted by WeTheLiving
It's not at all uncommon for women who are long time alcoholics to die in their 30's. I see this regularly in my profession. I'm pretty sure the body of an adult is able to metabolize about one ounce of hard liquor an hour regardless if the size of the person.
The minimum dose of alcohol that must be consumed for serious liver injury to become apparent in men is 5-6 standard drinks daily for 20 years.� For women, the minimum dose is one-fourth to one-half that amount.
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Thanks again,
I've found it as useful as it is scary to keep an eye on my wife's booze consumption. One reason, as advised my my barrister friend, is for the scenario where she calls the police to claim I'm attacking her. I don't do so anyway but I have the evidence of the recycle bin and pictures of it over several months to show the police.
A word with my own doctor revealed that many alcoholics receive a serious health warning too late, i.e. when some irreversible damage has already been done.
There are a couple more useful web sites, at https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/
and at Homepage | Drink Smarter. The latter has an application - The Drinking Mirror - which can be downloaded to a smartphone or tablet, or used online. All drinkers with any regard for their personal appearance should try it!
Tonight, after 1.1/4 bottles of Pinot, she came up in fighting mode. The abuse started - about what I do or don't do this time. I simply said, "I'm not rising to this." and came downstairs.
At my alcohol counsellor group meeting, I was asked, "Why do you stay and put up with it?" This is a question I've often asked myself. I suppose the answer is that the evil twin is not permanently present.
I've found it as useful as it is scary to keep an eye on my wife's booze consumption. One reason, as advised my my barrister friend, is for the scenario where she calls the police to claim I'm attacking her. I don't do so anyway but I have the evidence of the recycle bin and pictures of it over several months to show the police.
A word with my own doctor revealed that many alcoholics receive a serious health warning too late, i.e. when some irreversible damage has already been done.
There are a couple more useful web sites, at https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/
and at Homepage | Drink Smarter. The latter has an application - The Drinking Mirror - which can be downloaded to a smartphone or tablet, or used online. All drinkers with any regard for their personal appearance should try it!
Tonight, after 1.1/4 bottles of Pinot, she came up in fighting mode. The abuse started - about what I do or don't do this time. I simply said, "I'm not rising to this." and came downstairs.
At my alcohol counsellor group meeting, I was asked, "Why do you stay and put up with it?" This is a question I've often asked myself. I suppose the answer is that the evil twin is not permanently present.
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We have a development of sorts.
My wife returned from an afternoon out shopping. We ate and as it was a booze-free night, I thought 'go for it'.
As advised by my counsellor and people at Al-Anon, I told my wife that my counsellor is with the local Drug & Alcohol Advisory Service, and that I was about to attend my fourth Al-Anon meeting (this evening).
I expected an explosion but all I got was "OK."
She was a little bit quiet this morning but it's clear to me she's unsure of her ground. Whatever she does to try and criticise my actions will obviously loop right back to her door.
I'll decide to come home late tonight (booze night). With any luck she'll be flat out by then
My wife returned from an afternoon out shopping. We ate and as it was a booze-free night, I thought 'go for it'.
As advised by my counsellor and people at Al-Anon, I told my wife that my counsellor is with the local Drug & Alcohol Advisory Service, and that I was about to attend my fourth Al-Anon meeting (this evening).
I expected an explosion but all I got was "OK."
She was a little bit quiet this morning but it's clear to me she's unsure of her ground. Whatever she does to try and criticise my actions will obviously loop right back to her door.
I'll decide to come home late tonight (booze night). With any luck she'll be flat out by then
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My husband is a fairly big guy. Right before he went to detox, what I saw him drinking was about a handle of liquor every 3-ish days (I was actually tracking how much was being consumed because I was starting to document for divorce/custody purposes). That was what I saw - he was also apparently drinking stuff not in the open.
When he checked in to detox, he had run out of liquor sometime that morning, he checked in sometime in the early evening, and they made him do a breathalyzer on check in. He blew a .157 - almost twice the legal limit for driving hours after he stopped drinking....I shudder to think what he was probably running at any point on any given day, since he was also using benzos to ward off withdrawal symptoms so he could function without drinking at work.
When he checked in to detox, he had run out of liquor sometime that morning, he checked in sometime in the early evening, and they made him do a breathalyzer on check in. He blew a .157 - almost twice the legal limit for driving hours after he stopped drinking....I shudder to think what he was probably running at any point on any given day, since he was also using benzos to ward off withdrawal symptoms so he could function without drinking at work.
I'm just going to say, Snood, that counting drinks and calculating her BAL is bad news. I hope you are able to back off for your own sake. All this concentration on the math detail is not seeing the forest for the trees.
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Thanks, Florence (quote)...
I'm just going to say, Snood, that counting drinks and calculating her BAL is bad news. I hope you are able to back off for your own sake. All this concentration on the math detail is not seeing the forest for the trees.
I beg to differ here. I can judge to the glass how much she's had anyway but there are reasons for my approaching the monitoring more 'scientifically'.
* I have a science/engineering background - I approach many things using it.
* Probably a fond hope but the bottle count will clearly show if her drinking lessens.
* I keep tabs because I often really can't believe just how much she is using.
But thank you for your concern
I'm just going to say, Snood, that counting drinks and calculating her BAL is bad news. I hope you are able to back off for your own sake. All this concentration on the math detail is not seeing the forest for the trees.
I beg to differ here. I can judge to the glass how much she's had anyway but there are reasons for my approaching the monitoring more 'scientifically'.
* I have a science/engineering background - I approach many things using it.
* Probably a fond hope but the bottle count will clearly show if her drinking lessens.
* I keep tabs because I often really can't believe just how much she is using.
But thank you for your concern
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I'm going to gently agree with Florence. When you are counting drinks, you are obsessing over behavior and an outcome that YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER (not yelling here, just emphasizing). That behavior of monitoring is draining your energy. It takes the focus off what you can do to please and care for yourself in those moments.
It's a hard habit to break, not worrying about our loved ones. You can still love her and not worry so much. This disease of hers might break your heart one day. You can help strengthen yourself by caring for yourself and doing things that make you feel happy. I recommend reading the Detachment leaflet put out by Al Anon.
It's a hard habit to break, not worrying about our loved ones. You can still love her and not worry so much. This disease of hers might break your heart one day. You can help strengthen yourself by caring for yourself and doing things that make you feel happy. I recommend reading the Detachment leaflet put out by Al Anon.
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