SpouseRecovery

Is it possible to salvage a marriage so badly damaged by one's alcoholism? I certainly hope so, but I guess my question is when should this be approached? And how? My AH has just over a month sober. I filed for separation 6 weeks ago and we have been living separately ever since. Of course now that he is sober, he wants to come back immediately. While he says he understands that I am not there yet, I don't think he really does. He seems to see my reluctance as me giving up on our marriage. He says he feels me leaving him as abandoning him. My thought process is that it's too soon to confidently make a decision either way. This isn't the first time we have been put in a similar position, and this isn't the first time he has tried to get sober. Granted, this is the longest he has ever been sober, but I still feel it's too soon. Am I wrong to think that he should focus mostly on his own recovery first before he dives into trying to repair our marriage? Of course all marriages have problems, and his drinking was problem #1, but the drinking created a ripple effect that damaged all aspects of our marriage. I had to deal with his drinking for the last few years. That has been my reality. He has only been dealing with the reality sober for 32 days. I have tried to explain to him that my healing process is going to take longer and that I can't give him a specific time frame, which he wants.

Are there any good resources for marriage and alcoholism that anyone can point me to? I am fully aware of Alanon, but I am thinking in terms of specifically working on marriage when alcoholism/emotional abuse is involved. Literature? Theories?

lizw

Are you aware of what happens at al anon?

SpouseRecovery

I am aware of what happens at Alanon. I have been to meetings before. It wasn't quite my vibe. And logistically, my city has very limited meetings. During the week there are only 2 meetings during the day (I work full-time), and only 1 at night, which is too late for me due to childcare.

suki44883

My theory is that a marriage cannot be improved as long as addiction is a factor. Thirty-two days sober is a drop in the bucket. I don't know how long you have been married, but it took years to get to the point of you finally moving out, and it is going to take a whole lot longer than 32 days to make things better.

No, you are not wrong about wanting to wait before getting back together. You have done the hardest part already...moving out. Don't undo all that progress by going back too soon. Once you go back, there you are. What is to stop things from going back to the way they were six weeks ago?

Make him prove that he is serious about recovery. A good measure would be if he can maintain consistent sobriety for at least a year. What is he doing other than just not drinking? Is he working with a therapist, going to AA, working some other kind of program?

SpouseRecovery

He is seeing a therapist who specializes in addiction. He is also attending Life Ring meetings. But just like Alanon in my city, those meetings are very limited, so he is considering attending AA, which are more frequently offered. He has also been regularly seeing our primary doctor and managing his depression with meds.

AnvilheadII

what concerns me about his pressing for how soon you will be back is that he might be thinking "how long do I have to keep up this sober act?' - once you go back, it gets harder to leave. you are better off and safer where you are now. if he is really serious about this, he will also want what is best for YOU. he will shoulder the responsibility for the mess he has made and not ask you to bear any further burden. that's gonna take more sober time....his head is barely out of the fog now. his body is still suffering the affects of the drink. I remember at 1 year sober just beginning to feel like all my parts were properly reassembled. I remember at 2 years feeling stronger, more centered.

suki44883

That is certainly positive, especially if he continues regardless of whether or not you are willing to return at this time.

I, too, feel like he should not be pressuring you. If he is truly serious about recovery and living a sober life, he will do so whether you live with him or not. How else will you know he really wants this for himself and isn't just doing what you expect him to do in order to get you to move back in?

SpouseRecovery

And those are my feelings as well. I feel like if he is really serious about his recovery, he wouldn't be pressuring me. The last time we went through this, I left w/out filing. He agreed to do treatment and to quit, I came back after a month and he was back at it immediately. He claims he will stay sober regardless of the state of our marriage. But yet I can't help but feel him telling me he feels like I abandoned him and that he thinks I am not willing to try at our marriage is him manipulating me or laying on a guilt trip. I've told him that I am afraid if I let him move back home too soon that he will just slip back into old habits. His response is he is staying sober no matter what, yet at the same time he says "we" are in recovery together. It's like one minute he is saying his sobriety and our marriage are separate, but the next minute he is saying they're not.

suki44883

Well, there ya go! You've been down this road before and once he had you back, he reverted to old ways. All the more reason you should stand your ground and allow him to prove what he says before you do anything regarding the marriage. Maybe you can allow the marriage to be in a "holding pattern" for a year while he proves himself. I don't think that's too much to ask of him, considering the years you have dealt with his addiction.

dandylion

SpouseRecovery---my experience is along the lines of suki44883. Over the years, I have seen and dealt with many an alcoholic. I have also had experience with long-recovering ones. I can honestly say that I have never seen a successfully recovering alcoholic without a histroy of working a diligent program. And I do mean diligent--to the point that their live was organized around this number one priority--especially in the first 1-2-3yrs.!
That meant daily meetings, working with a sponsor, working all (ALL) of the 12 steps, and giving back. It takes a lot of time; a lot of focus; fearless honesty and the willingness to change anything that needs to be changed in order to maintain sobriety.
It means that, basically, one has to change their thinking and attitudes--leading, ultimately to a change in actions. When a person is in genuine recovery--not just sober--you can SEE it in their actions---you can FEEL it in the way they conduct themselves. You know it.

It sounds like your husband is still thinking with typical alcoholic self-absorbtion. They want what they want--now. It disease renders them unable to appreciate the needs of others close to them. Of course, they desire to return to their former comfort zone--never mind if that might not be the best thing for you. Don't be surprised at him thinking like this--but, don't get sucked back in.

He is going to try to chip at your boundaries. It is your responsibility to defend and protect your boundaries. I will be your job to take care of you. It just is. You can't expect him to--an alcoholic has a hard time even taking care of themselves!!

I am just giving you food for thought....

dandylion

foolsgold66

Since you are already living separately, I suggest you both agree upon and make a committment to live apart for 1 year.

FireSprite

For us, we couldn't even think about starting on fixing the broken parts of our marriage until somewhere after the 6 month mark or so. I don't remember exactly, but I do know that all efforts made prior to that time ended in frustration no matter how much I wanted it to be different. Even the stuff he did "get" about our problems, he wasn't in a position to correct.

It took us each, separately, a significant amount of time to figure out who we were now...... it seemed like one of us was always in a state of flux for one reason or another - the rising of buried emotions, acknowledgment of exactly how deep our damages were, physical detox for him, awareness of my own codependency for me, etc. We needed to get a better handle on who we were before we could bring that to the table of "us", if that makes any sense. We had 3 separate issues - me, him, us. I also needed time to understand healthy boundaries & work on forgiveness in order to WANT to work on us.

FireSprite

^^^ Yes, daily meetings, focused on his recovery 100% meant there literally wasn't ROOM or TIME to worry about the marriage.

Sometimes the very best we could do was agree to not give up, and I spent many months going back & forth about where I thought we were headed. It took a long time for him to understand how important it was to match his actions with his words, that good intentions simply are not enough and never really had been.

OnlyOneProblem

No, it is not wrong for you to think he should focus on his recovery. Trust yourself. It is ok if you are not ready. I like your analogy that he has only been dealing with sobriety for a short time compared to how long you were dealing with his drinking.

My AH is 44 days sober. He filed for divorce after 2 weeks of sobriety- something he says he regrets. He has told me on many occasions that he wants our marriage to work. He attends 2 meetings a day. Quite often he shares with me his enlightenment. He also shares his struggle with Step 1.

I have been consistent in telling him that his words mean nothing and his actions reflect quite the opposite of what he is saying, i.e. filing for divorce. The paperwork involved with the divorce is long and tedious. Sometimes I feel like he wants to make the marriage work just so he doesn't have to do the paperwork or pay alimony as most of his requests to make it work center around this theme. I have said that we should continue with the legal process and if something changes we can deal with it then.

However, today he shook me up. He came in from his morning meeting and said to me: "You were so right when you told me I needed to make friends and should volunteer or something as an avenue to that. I've made so many friends at AA. I am really happy". All I could do was tell him that I was happy for him - turned around and went upstairs to cry.

I have longed for the day when he would realize that he is the only one that can make himself happy. Is he on the road to recovery? I don't know - but today was the first day that I saw something different. It isn't enough to stop me from moving forward with the legal process.

I truly believe that working a program is vital to his recovery and his recovery is vital to making our marriage work. My program is just as important. I think all I can do at this point is take it one day at a time. Same for you. Trust your self and Good Luck. Look forward to hearing anything helpful on improving ones marriage during this transition period.

dancingnow

Yes, what DL says.

Unfortunately it seems from my experience that my AH acted like a teenager being kicked out of home for no reason and he held on to this resentment and blamed me for all our marriage woes for more than a year of sobriety.

Also my RAH didn't get much beyond 30 days of sobriety until we were on our 2nd year of separation. His sobriety had nothing to do with me. By then we had very little of what you would call a marriage and his resentment (my own also) were very much in the way of us relating to each other. Nevertheless we did get back together and now after 1 1/2 years sobriety and a lot of recovery work on both our parts we are developing a new relationship.

Seriously does it make sense for a grownup to feel that they are being "abandoned". I can think of so many situations where boundaries need to be put in place and two adults can work through without feeling like they are being abandoned. I know my AH felt the same way but I was keen on helping myself out of the mess we were in and didn't care to take on that responsibility as it kept me from my own healing.

SpouseRecovery

My post on another thread tonight:
Back to day one with my AH. He relapsed today, he made it 32 days. The situation is even more complicated because he has our daughter this weekend. Thankfully I requested supervised visits for our daughter in my separation paperwork and he can only have her with his parents. She was not with him when he relapsed. But it's like we're right back to square one. Almost immediately after he relapsed, before he told me, the texts started and I knew. He was telling me he loved me and that I deserved better. That there was no way he was going to get better. And then he started saying that I needed to come and get him. His battery is dead and he is stuck where he's at. He said all he wants is to sleep next to me tonight because that will make him feel better (we have been separated for over a month). I made it very clear to him that it wasn't going to happen, that I wasn't going to be manipulated and that I won't be responsible for his recovery.

I really thought he was going to make it this time. The irony is he attended his first AA meeting today. He talked to me on the phone afterward and told me it was positive. I don't know if I can endure another week of hell like the last time this happened--the threats, the yo-yo emotions, the harassment, the manipulation, the lying, the self-pity.

CarryOn

I'm sorry to hear of his relapse. Relapse is often part of recovery, so I hope he gets himself back on track.

Both my counselor & priest (a RA himself) told me early on that I needed to grieve my marriage - not that things definitely would not work out, but that in order to have a healthy marriage, our relationship would have to change. It has been almost a year since I started counseling and about 5 months since RAH quit drinking, and I fully agree that our marriage must change. We've made positive steps, but there is a long way to go. A month is just too soon.

Another thing my counselor reminds me about is that you can divorce and who says you won't reconcile later? At least your life moves forward regardless.

Keep your focus on you...that is what is most important now.

NYCDoglvr

Alanon was invaluable for me, taught me to deal with my issues of codependency and I strongly recommend it. Regarding "fixing" a broken marriage......... Perhaps it helps to ask yourself if you trust and respect him. He is in very early sobriety.........suggest he get back to you in a year. Does he have a program?

SpouseRecovery

My post on another thread early this morning: My AH will be spending his first night ever in jail. After relapsing tonight, he demanded that I let him come to the house. I refused. I told him to stay where he was at and stop drinking, start fresh. He then said he was going to come to the house and the only way I could get him to leave was by calling the cops. After a couple of hours, I figured he was bluffing and went to bed, but I made sure everything was locked up tight. I was awakened by him trying to bust off the doorknob to the garage door. He broke it off but thankfully the lock held. He proceeded to then try to break in through another door and a window. He was texting me that if I didn't let him in that he would bust in with the sledgehammer and that the only way he would leave was if he were arrested. I was truly scared. He has never hurt me physically before, but he has threatened. He has also threatened to harm himself. Thank God our child was not here tonight. Calling 911 was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. It was harder than leaving him. We are still in a gray area with our separation because we haven't had a court date. So even though he agreed to my terms, including a temporary restraining order for the house (not a DVPO), they couldn't lawfully keep him from coming in, even though he was obviously drunk and wanting to be arrested. However, he did run and hide and ignored the sheriffs' pleas to come out. So he was booked on obstruction. I can't help but feel the codependency creeping in. I actually feel guilty for calling 911. Seeing him taken away in handcuffs was surreal. I started to think about how his parents would react and how they would think of me. I started to think of the financial burden on him and the fact that now he'll have a criminal record. He was laughing and joking with the cops. It's as if he wanted to be arrested. So much for sleep tonight.

Hammer

Looking at:

and:

Looks like you may have ventured into something from Neural Network Engineering.

When diving for the local bottom -- Steepest Gradient Descent is the Optimal Path.

Sounds like he is looking for his bottom and diving hard to it.

May he find it, and may he find God there. Until they really beat their own butts down, there is no recovery, if at all.

Stay out of the path.

Sorry you (we) have to go through some of it with him (them).