How do I forgive myself....???
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 505
How do I forgive myself....???
I was in a department store dressing room over the weekend, and while changing, happened to catch a glimpse of myself in the mirror. And the first thought to pop into my head was, "Yep. He left you because of your disgusting body." It was so matter-of-fact, and in my codie mind, a perfect justification for why my XA ended it the way he did.
But after sitting with this thought for a few minutes, and hopefully as a result of my ongoing therapy sessions, I thought to myself, "What is wrong with you?! Your body may not be up to 'society's standards,' but it sure as hell never stopped him from calling you over there whenever he wanted to USE your body!! And further, if that IS how he thought of you, do you REALLY want to be with someone who judges you so superficially?? Someone who judges you by the way your body looks and not by your kindness, your compassion, your huge, loving heart and for the decent person you are???"
And then finally, later that evening, the truth finally hit me: The only thing worse than the thought that he dumped me because I don't have a 'hot' body is the realization that he never cared WHAT my body looked like. All he ever cared about is that I was always ready, willing and able to drop everything at a moment's notice to run over there and serve his selfish needs. What's the saying, "All cats look gray in the dark"....? Well, I think that's pretty much the mindset of someone operating under a cocaine and alcohol-fueled high. As long as I was willing to drop everything and allow myself to be subjected to his selfish, often 'too-rough' version of sex, he couldn't have cared LESS what my body looked like.
And please don't misunderstand....I'm not trying to portray myself as a helpless victim here. I'm not saying he forced me to do anything - I was a more than willing volunteer. Why? Because in my sick, codependent mind, I wanted to give him whatever he wanted, whatever would make him happy, thinking that if I did, he would eventually give me the love I so desperately craved from him. But I also refuse to let him off the hook. I know what my role was, what I allowed, what I accepted and what I settled for....but he also played a part, one that he refuses to acknowledge. He knew how I felt about him (even said to my face that he'd have to be blind to not see that I was in love with him), and he manipulated my feelings, playing to my sympathies, telling me he just needed time, that I know him better than anyone else and that he loved me (yes, just words, I now realize) until he was done and then moved right along.
So my point in all of this (sorry it's so long) is: How do I go about forgiving MYSELF for the role I willingly played in all this? I can't even think about forgiving him right now - it's too soon, still too raw... But I'm trying to find a way to forgive myself for allowing myself to be treated and used in such a degrading manner, for not valuing and respecting myself enough to have walked away months earlier and most of all, for STILL loving him and missing him in spite of all of it. I feel worthless, ashamed and like I deserved the treatment I got. After all, the truth was right in front of my face the whole time - how did I not see it???
If anyone has any advice or suggestions as to how to begin the process of forgiving myself, I'd greatly appreciate it. (But please be gentle, if possible - I already feel so stupid and can't even tell you how much I've been beating myself up...not sure I can handle more right now.) Thanks so much.
But after sitting with this thought for a few minutes, and hopefully as a result of my ongoing therapy sessions, I thought to myself, "What is wrong with you?! Your body may not be up to 'society's standards,' but it sure as hell never stopped him from calling you over there whenever he wanted to USE your body!! And further, if that IS how he thought of you, do you REALLY want to be with someone who judges you so superficially?? Someone who judges you by the way your body looks and not by your kindness, your compassion, your huge, loving heart and for the decent person you are???"
And then finally, later that evening, the truth finally hit me: The only thing worse than the thought that he dumped me because I don't have a 'hot' body is the realization that he never cared WHAT my body looked like. All he ever cared about is that I was always ready, willing and able to drop everything at a moment's notice to run over there and serve his selfish needs. What's the saying, "All cats look gray in the dark"....? Well, I think that's pretty much the mindset of someone operating under a cocaine and alcohol-fueled high. As long as I was willing to drop everything and allow myself to be subjected to his selfish, often 'too-rough' version of sex, he couldn't have cared LESS what my body looked like.
And please don't misunderstand....I'm not trying to portray myself as a helpless victim here. I'm not saying he forced me to do anything - I was a more than willing volunteer. Why? Because in my sick, codependent mind, I wanted to give him whatever he wanted, whatever would make him happy, thinking that if I did, he would eventually give me the love I so desperately craved from him. But I also refuse to let him off the hook. I know what my role was, what I allowed, what I accepted and what I settled for....but he also played a part, one that he refuses to acknowledge. He knew how I felt about him (even said to my face that he'd have to be blind to not see that I was in love with him), and he manipulated my feelings, playing to my sympathies, telling me he just needed time, that I know him better than anyone else and that he loved me (yes, just words, I now realize) until he was done and then moved right along.
So my point in all of this (sorry it's so long) is: How do I go about forgiving MYSELF for the role I willingly played in all this? I can't even think about forgiving him right now - it's too soon, still too raw... But I'm trying to find a way to forgive myself for allowing myself to be treated and used in such a degrading manner, for not valuing and respecting myself enough to have walked away months earlier and most of all, for STILL loving him and missing him in spite of all of it. I feel worthless, ashamed and like I deserved the treatment I got. After all, the truth was right in front of my face the whole time - how did I not see it???
If anyone has any advice or suggestions as to how to begin the process of forgiving myself, I'd greatly appreciate it. (But please be gentle, if possible - I already feel so stupid and can't even tell you how much I've been beating myself up...not sure I can handle more right now.) Thanks so much.
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
So my point in all of this (sorry it's so long) is: How do I go about forgiving MYSELF for the role I willingly played in all this?
I know, I know. It doesn't feel like it's that simple given your headspace right now. But the truth of the matter is neither you or I were born with manuals on how to deal with someone else's addiction, or how to counter codependent behaviors. And as a result, we made mistakes.
The mistakes you made weren't from a place of malice, but rather a place of caring for a sick person. And in your best thinking at the time, you did what you thought was right in supporting him. Hopefully as you grow, you become honest enough to recognize where you went off the rails, and then you learn not to do what you did again.
Speaking for myself, I am grateful for the experience I had with my AXGF, as painful as it was. Why? Because I grew as a person. I recognized how f'ed up some of my own behavior was, and was so successful in not repeating it, my AXGF left me because I didn't enable her to be helpless anymore. And I recognized just how fortunate I was to have the gifts I have and the people in my life. It's so, so easy to ruminate over what you think you've lost, and it's so, so easy to not pay attention to what you do have.
The goal is not to beat yourself up. The goal is to identify where you went wrong, learn from it, and then not repeat the same mistake. In AA, I believe this is referred to "another f**king opportunity for growth."
So, knock it off.
With Affection,
ZoSo
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I don't know if you've ever gone to meetings or worked the 12 steps (there is a good study up in the stickies)...but that's where I learned to forgive myself and forgive my son both. It's a process that begins with willingness and grows as we go. I highly recommend it.
Hugs
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
you classify it as a Life Lesson. we all make mistakes hon...or shall I say uninformed decisions....you knew what you knew AT the time....now you know more. in the depths of darkness you found you own value, your self worth
we learn that sex is NOT love. and Love is NOT sex. ask me how I know that one!
we learn that sex is NOT love. and Love is NOT sex. ask me how I know that one!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
we learn that sex is NOT love. and Love is NOT sex. ask me how I know that one!
I felt like this was written from my heart as well. I taught the same things you are thinking…my body was not good enough, thou when he needed it for sex it was perfect…I saw all the red flags and still stayed thinking if I did long enough or forgive or keep my mouth shut and stand by him I will reap the benefits his love affection and commitment, well I got nothing I was to tired and just felt like s*** to stay any longer.
Come to think of it as I read the sticky at the top "when will the pain stop" i no longer felt loved. I remember like it was yesterday in the middle of having sex with him I taught to myself why are you doing this satisfying his needs when he doesn’t even seem interested in your needs. And he knew because when I kind stopped in the middle and just let him finish he said to me " I am sorry I could give you what you wanted I am tired maybe tomorrow" as I think of it now the only times I think he made love to me was when I was pregnant all the rest of the times it was just sex for him
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 654
I always hated the saying "hind sight is 20/20" but it is true. When we look back on the past it is hard to not sit there and be angry with ourselves and think WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?! but we have to try to remember that at the time things were not so clear. Even if it was in front of use the whole time, we weren't ready to truly see it for what it was. So while right now it might seem hard to forgive yourself, remember that you have grown ALOT since then and all that matters is that you move forward with your head held high and vow to yourself to never live through that again. You can't change the past but you can damn well make sure the past doesn't repeat its self.
I just wanted to point out that when you listed all the reasons why someone should love you "your kindness, your compassion, your huge, loving heart and for the decent person you are???" that literally shows how far you have come and how strong of a woman you are. In the midst of asking how to forgive yourself you are able to acknowledge that you have SO MUCH to offer and that is amazing. If nothing else that should show you that you need to forgive yourself because you are too amazing to beat yourself up forever over something. I believe that every woman should remind themselves of all the reasons they deserve respect and to be treated right and why they are amazing because it is so empowering. I hope that that even if it is hard to forgive yourself today that you keep reminding yourself of all your amazing qualities and little by little you will realize that list just keeps growing and growing.
I just wanted to point out that when you listed all the reasons why someone should love you "your kindness, your compassion, your huge, loving heart and for the decent person you are???" that literally shows how far you have come and how strong of a woman you are. In the midst of asking how to forgive yourself you are able to acknowledge that you have SO MUCH to offer and that is amazing. If nothing else that should show you that you need to forgive yourself because you are too amazing to beat yourself up forever over something. I believe that every woman should remind themselves of all the reasons they deserve respect and to be treated right and why they are amazing because it is so empowering. I hope that that even if it is hard to forgive yourself today that you keep reminding yourself of all your amazing qualities and little by little you will realize that list just keeps growing and growing.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 625
I have a daughter. She is amazing. From the moment she was born she has never ceased to amaze me with how flipping awesome she is. That includes the terrible two's, the teenage years - everything.
When I came into recovery my sponsor suggested that in order to learn proper self care, that I should just imagine that whatever it was that I was going through, thinking about or about to do - just imagine that my daughter was coming to me from the same place and asking for advice, or forgiveness, or etc. It was suggested that if I dared to love myself half as much as I loved my daughter and took half the forgiveness I'd offer her, I'd be the happiest guy on the planet.
When I came into recovery my sponsor suggested that in order to learn proper self care, that I should just imagine that whatever it was that I was going through, thinking about or about to do - just imagine that my daughter was coming to me from the same place and asking for advice, or forgiveness, or etc. It was suggested that if I dared to love myself half as much as I loved my daughter and took half the forgiveness I'd offer her, I'd be the happiest guy on the planet.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
"The Gift of Imperfection" by Brene Brown. Just got done reading it. Lots of food for thought in it. She talks a lot about "shame" in the book. There's a difference between guilt and shame. Guilt = we DID something bad Shame = we ARE bad. Shame is lethal.
We can acknowledge guilt. We can forgive ourselves for something we are guilty of but getting rid of shame is a whole nuther ball of wax.
I learned for forgive myself when I finally realized that nothing I was going to do was going to change the past. I had no realistic choice but to move forward and let go of the past. And once I knew better, I did better.
lol. I love that. I had heard it before but forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me. Man..... I've had an awful lot of f**king opportunities for growth.....still wondering....when will I be all growed up? lol
gentle hugs
ke
We can acknowledge guilt. We can forgive ourselves for something we are guilty of but getting rid of shame is a whole nuther ball of wax.
I learned for forgive myself when I finally realized that nothing I was going to do was going to change the past. I had no realistic choice but to move forward and let go of the past. And once I knew better, I did better.
In AA, I believe this is referred to "another f**king opportunity for growth."
gentle hugs
ke
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 505
Thank you all, from the bottom of my heart, for the responses. I want to respond to them, but I think I'll have to wait until after work, as just reading through them has resulted in another wave of tears and near-sobbing that I just haven't been able to control these last few days, ever since I decided it was time to finally face this issue and allow it into my conscious thoughts. I've been running from it, trying my damnedest to avoid thinking about it, but I know I can't do that forever. I have to deal with it if I'm ever going to be able to fully heal.
So in the meantime, THANK YOU ALL. Your support means more than I can ever express.
So in the meantime, THANK YOU ALL. Your support means more than I can ever express.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 559
I think you are well on your way to forgiving yourself just by the mere aknowledgement.
When my xah's girlfriend (the woman he was sleeping with for 6 months during our marriage) told me that my husband (at the time) said I was fat and some other really hurtful things I was beyond hurt. Of course she is rail thin. Probably because of the cocaine use, but thats a whole other issue! lol! Anyways, I ended up loosing 20 lbs in 2 months. I starved myself. I couldn't eat because I was so distraught, hurt, upset, anxious...you name it. I was so hurt. I actually thought for as minute that if I was thin like her he would want me back...WTF? Like I sais, I was hurt. This was a 16 year relationship. This was the man I thought was my best friend who I trusted more than anything.
Then, I realized soemthing. Without my xah, I felt better about myself. I had nobody putting me down anymore. I had nobody making me feel like I was a bad person or a b**&% anymore. I started seeing myself as a woman, and I saw how others really liked me. I began to like myself. I started to see that I wasn't crazy, and that I was actually very smart. For the first time ever I really like myself! lol, insert saturday night live skit please! But seriously, I feel confident in me. I have since gained back 15lbs, but I feel healthy and happy. I gave birth to a beautiful little boy. I should be loved for who I am, not discarded because I am not a size 4. That is just insane! I see how stupid those hurtful comments were, and how childish and disgusting they were/are. Those 2 deserve each other. You can have 'em is what I think now. I want a sober, trustworthy, loyal ADULT.
Also, keep in mind, there are plenty of woman who have superb bodies and are cheated on.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Learn from this and grow to an even more beautiful woman!
When my xah's girlfriend (the woman he was sleeping with for 6 months during our marriage) told me that my husband (at the time) said I was fat and some other really hurtful things I was beyond hurt. Of course she is rail thin. Probably because of the cocaine use, but thats a whole other issue! lol! Anyways, I ended up loosing 20 lbs in 2 months. I starved myself. I couldn't eat because I was so distraught, hurt, upset, anxious...you name it. I was so hurt. I actually thought for as minute that if I was thin like her he would want me back...WTF? Like I sais, I was hurt. This was a 16 year relationship. This was the man I thought was my best friend who I trusted more than anything.
Then, I realized soemthing. Without my xah, I felt better about myself. I had nobody putting me down anymore. I had nobody making me feel like I was a bad person or a b**&% anymore. I started seeing myself as a woman, and I saw how others really liked me. I began to like myself. I started to see that I wasn't crazy, and that I was actually very smart. For the first time ever I really like myself! lol, insert saturday night live skit please! But seriously, I feel confident in me. I have since gained back 15lbs, but I feel healthy and happy. I gave birth to a beautiful little boy. I should be loved for who I am, not discarded because I am not a size 4. That is just insane! I see how stupid those hurtful comments were, and how childish and disgusting they were/are. Those 2 deserve each other. You can have 'em is what I think now. I want a sober, trustworthy, loyal ADULT.
Also, keep in mind, there are plenty of woman who have superb bodies and are cheated on.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Learn from this and grow to an even more beautiful woman!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 178
Have you tried Alanon?
I have accepted to be used some in the past. I guess I didn't feel like I was good
enough to deserve to be treated right.
During my childhood I learned that I was not good enough, that I didn't
deserve anything good, that I didn't deserve anybody's care and effort.
I also learned to do everything on my own. I felt strong, independent.
In the few relationships I had I pretty much was more comfortable with bringing
more than my fair share to the relationship because I felt
damaged.
Alanon helps me understand and change myself.
I find it easier to forgive myself seeing the whole story of how I got where I am.
Good luck to you.
I have accepted to be used some in the past. I guess I didn't feel like I was good
enough to deserve to be treated right.
During my childhood I learned that I was not good enough, that I didn't
deserve anything good, that I didn't deserve anybody's care and effort.
I also learned to do everything on my own. I felt strong, independent.
In the few relationships I had I pretty much was more comfortable with bringing
more than my fair share to the relationship because I felt
damaged.
Alanon helps me understand and change myself.
I find it easier to forgive myself seeing the whole story of how I got where I am.
Good luck to you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 505
Thank you, Zoso, and I know you're right - my mistakes did come from a place of caring, not of malice. That is one thing that I am comforted by, that although I made mistakes, at least my mistakes came from a good place. And honestly, the mistakes I made were detrimental to nobody but myself! They didn't affect my XA in any way, just made it easier for him to manipulate me. And although I know this, it's still hard to not blame myself, especially when some of my own family members keep saying well, you did this and that wrong, you let him use you, what did you expect to happen when you didn't stand up for yourself and never made any demands on him, if I was in that situation, I would have done this and that differently, blah, blah, blah. (Yeah, it's SO easy to criticize and pass judgment when you're not actually involved in the situation and when you have NO idea what it's like to be a raging codependent!!)
I will agree with you that this experience has truly opened my eyes as to how completely f'ed up my behavior is when it comes to love relationships!! I've come to realize that I have absolutely NO boundaries and that I always lose myself in trying to be everything and everyone for the other person. And it alarms me to realize that the extent of these issues is getting more and more severe with each relationship, and I've started crossing the border into putting my own safety and physical welfare at risk, as well. So yes, I will try my best to view this as "another f**king opportunity for growth" (I agree with Kindeyes - love that) and not beat myself up too badly.
Thank you, Ann. I went to one CoDA meeting, but I just felt out of place. I didn't feel like I'd ever be able to open up about what had brought me there. Is the study in the stickies something I can try to follow on my own? Or is it to be used as a supplement to attending actual meetings?
I will agree with you that this experience has truly opened my eyes as to how completely f'ed up my behavior is when it comes to love relationships!! I've come to realize that I have absolutely NO boundaries and that I always lose myself in trying to be everything and everyone for the other person. And it alarms me to realize that the extent of these issues is getting more and more severe with each relationship, and I've started crossing the border into putting my own safety and physical welfare at risk, as well. So yes, I will try my best to view this as "another f**king opportunity for growth" (I agree with Kindeyes - love that) and not beat myself up too badly.
Thank you, Ann. I went to one CoDA meeting, but I just felt out of place. I didn't feel like I'd ever be able to open up about what had brought me there. Is the study in the stickies something I can try to follow on my own? Or is it to be used as a supplement to attending actual meetings?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 505
Thank you, Anvil, although I'm sorry that you've also taken this course at the School of Hard Knocks!!
Every time I think about how naive, how STUPID I was to believe that he actually loved me while treating me like some skank he picked up in his dive bar instead of someone he's known since we were kids, I just feel mortified. Stuff like, "Oh, I'm welcome to stay over after sex but now you want me to sleep on the couch instead of in bed with you? Ummm, sure! At least I get to stay, right?" and "Oh, I can come over and give you sex, but I have to promise not to talk and then have to leave right after? Ummm, okay! At least I get to see you, right?" or "Oh, you told me last week you'd see me on my birthday, but now that it's today you suddenly feel sick and can't hang with me but you'll probably still go to the bar later? Ummm okay, feel better!" Just absolutely degrading behavior that would make me feel like sh*t, until my codie mind quickly kicked into rationalization mode and comforted me with 'logical' excuses as to why he treated me like that - you know the drill, he had a bad childhood, he was hurt too many times, his parents died and he hasn't been able to move past it, he had a dysfunctional upbringing, he just doesn't know how to show love because nobody showed him, I know he feels bad when he acts like this so I have to show him that it's okay and that I love him no matter what, he can get 'just sex' from ANYBODY, he'd NEVER use the sister of a lifelong friend who he KNOWS has feelings for him if he was only interested in sex, etc. My God, no WONDER he treated me like dirt!! I just kept proving that no matter how bad he treated me, I would keep going back, over and over, and never question anything, never make any demands of him. So you can see why I'm having trouble forgiving myself....as I said, I feel like I have no one to blame but myself and that I deserved it. I'm ashamed of the person I was with him, and I don't even know where that person came from... Anyone who knows me would be absolutely shocked to know that I not only put up with such treatment, I chased after it!! I just feel like I don't even know who I am anymore....
Thank you, broken, although I'm sorry you've 'been there,' too. I can honestly say that this man never 'made love.' There was never anything gentle or tender about sex with him. It was always on the rough side and sometimes it was TOO rough. (I always had bruising afterwards.) I don't believe he has a conscious intention to hurt during sex...I think that's just his idea of what sex is supposed to be like. And I guess if you consider the fact that we're dealing with someone who was always in that cocaine-induced hyper-sexed state, who watched a lot of porn and definitely had some underlying sexual dysfunction, that WOULD be normal sex to him. But my lack of borders and codependency was SO deep that I never once complained or asked him to stop, never questioned why I sometimes felt degraded and exploited during sex, because I told myself that that was how he needed it to be in order to be happy or to get rid of his demons or whatever else I told myself. I felt that as long as HE was getting something out of it, it didn't necessarily matter if I was, too. My pleasure was based solely on being able to give him pleasure, and I had myself convinced that I could be perfectly happy with that arrangement for the rest of my life, as long as I had him. I mean, talk about absolutely TWISTED logic!!! Sometimes I think that I am SO messed up in the head that I will NEVER be able to recover from it, but I guess (hope!) that just the fact that I'm starting to be AWARE of it is a step in the right direction.
Every time I think about how naive, how STUPID I was to believe that he actually loved me while treating me like some skank he picked up in his dive bar instead of someone he's known since we were kids, I just feel mortified. Stuff like, "Oh, I'm welcome to stay over after sex but now you want me to sleep on the couch instead of in bed with you? Ummm, sure! At least I get to stay, right?" and "Oh, I can come over and give you sex, but I have to promise not to talk and then have to leave right after? Ummm, okay! At least I get to see you, right?" or "Oh, you told me last week you'd see me on my birthday, but now that it's today you suddenly feel sick and can't hang with me but you'll probably still go to the bar later? Ummm okay, feel better!" Just absolutely degrading behavior that would make me feel like sh*t, until my codie mind quickly kicked into rationalization mode and comforted me with 'logical' excuses as to why he treated me like that - you know the drill, he had a bad childhood, he was hurt too many times, his parents died and he hasn't been able to move past it, he had a dysfunctional upbringing, he just doesn't know how to show love because nobody showed him, I know he feels bad when he acts like this so I have to show him that it's okay and that I love him no matter what, he can get 'just sex' from ANYBODY, he'd NEVER use the sister of a lifelong friend who he KNOWS has feelings for him if he was only interested in sex, etc. My God, no WONDER he treated me like dirt!! I just kept proving that no matter how bad he treated me, I would keep going back, over and over, and never question anything, never make any demands of him. So you can see why I'm having trouble forgiving myself....as I said, I feel like I have no one to blame but myself and that I deserved it. I'm ashamed of the person I was with him, and I don't even know where that person came from... Anyone who knows me would be absolutely shocked to know that I not only put up with such treatment, I chased after it!! I just feel like I don't even know who I am anymore....
Thank you, broken, although I'm sorry you've 'been there,' too. I can honestly say that this man never 'made love.' There was never anything gentle or tender about sex with him. It was always on the rough side and sometimes it was TOO rough. (I always had bruising afterwards.) I don't believe he has a conscious intention to hurt during sex...I think that's just his idea of what sex is supposed to be like. And I guess if you consider the fact that we're dealing with someone who was always in that cocaine-induced hyper-sexed state, who watched a lot of porn and definitely had some underlying sexual dysfunction, that WOULD be normal sex to him. But my lack of borders and codependency was SO deep that I never once complained or asked him to stop, never questioned why I sometimes felt degraded and exploited during sex, because I told myself that that was how he needed it to be in order to be happy or to get rid of his demons or whatever else I told myself. I felt that as long as HE was getting something out of it, it didn't necessarily matter if I was, too. My pleasure was based solely on being able to give him pleasure, and I had myself convinced that I could be perfectly happy with that arrangement for the rest of my life, as long as I had him. I mean, talk about absolutely TWISTED logic!!! Sometimes I think that I am SO messed up in the head that I will NEVER be able to recover from it, but I guess (hope!) that just the fact that I'm starting to be AWARE of it is a step in the right direction.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by Maylie
I always hated the saying "hind sight is 20/20" but it is true. When we look back on the past it is hard to not sit there and be angry with ourselves and think WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?! but we have to try to remember that at the time things were not so clear. Even if it was in front of use the whole time, we weren't ready to truly see it for what it was.
And thank you for pointing out that I do have amazing qualities. I can honestly say that when it comes to what's INSIDE, I'm very confident. I know I'm a beautiful person inside. It's the OUTSIDE where I get hung up....I've had extreme body-image issues since I was about 9 years old. And I always feel that in relationships, I'm going to be judged more by how my body looks than for the kind of person I am. The last two guys didn't seem to give a crap about my great personality, and frankly, they didn't even seem to care too much about my body, either. All that mattered was that I had the right anatomical 'parts' for them to use at their convenience. And it didn't help that they both had a penchant for porn and strip clubs....how could I ever be expected to compete with women whose bodies are so hot that they take their clothes off for a living??
But you're right. We need to remind ourselves of how beautiful, amazing and wonderful we really are, instead of feeding into society's unhealthy standards. Believe me, I'm working on it, but it's a very slow process, trying to reverse a lifetime of low self-esteem and always feeling that I was just never good enough, thin enough, pretty enough, lovable enough, etc.
Thank you for making me realize that I actually am making progress in my recovery. I hadn't realized it, and it's encouraging to know that at least others can see it, even though I feel like I've been floundering around in the same spot since the beginning.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
let me clear up the bit about porn and strip clubs and how "beautiful" those women are. i'm going to speak in generalities here about the opposite sex, but it isn't how BEAUTIFUL or HOT they are, it's that they are naked and what they do or what is done to them while naked. men who are comfortable with their manhood and ego, and confident of their own sexual prowess/skills etc, do not "need" to watch other women having sex and doing kinky stuff to feel aroused and do not "need" to go to strip clubs and hand women money so they will pretend like they are interested!!!! (NEED being the key word here...)
you were not inadequate or lacking dear heart....actually it's the reverse...they had this need to have conquests and attention, to feel that women simply could not control themselves in their presence, so they could feel like a MAN, they had no ability to govern impulse control and thus needed to be stimulated at all times. then if you add in cocaine, well.....then it all goes off the charts.
you were not inadequate or lacking dear heart....actually it's the reverse...they had this need to have conquests and attention, to feel that women simply could not control themselves in their presence, so they could feel like a MAN, they had no ability to govern impulse control and thus needed to be stimulated at all times. then if you add in cocaine, well.....then it all goes off the charts.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 505
Thank you, legna. I think it's awesome that you love your daughter so much, and as a Daddy's girl myself, I can relate. Since the day I was born, my Dad has been convinced that the sun rises and sets in me, and he would move Heaven and Earth to make me happy. And I know seeing me so upset all the time is tearing him apart. I feel so bad, like I've somehow let him down as well. I can't even tell you how hard it was for me to tell him the truth. I just kept crying and apologizing, I was so ashamed to admit how far I removed I had become from the person I used to be - the proverbial 'good girl' who could always be depended upon to do the 'right' thing, the girl who everyone seemed to think had the world at her feet....to go from that to someone who practically wh*red herself out to a cocaine addict who treated her like garbage. 
And believe me, I know my father does NOT think that way about me...but I can tell it distresses him that out of his three children, I'm the one who can't seem to get my personal life together!! Everyone thought that at this point, I'd be (still) married with a couple kids and living happily ever after. *sigh* Yeah, I thought that's where I'd be at this point in my life, too...!! But thank you, legna, for reminding me that there IS still a man in my life who loves me and would do anything for me.
Thank you, Kindeyes, for the recommendation - I will definitely check that book out.
I have to say that it is shame I am feeling....shame for compromising my core principles and values to pathetically chase after someone who I now see was obviously not interested in anything except what I could do for him sexually. Honestly, the only thing I sometimes feel guilty about is for talking bad about him and telling people the truth about him. I don't know WHY I feel that I owe him some sense of loyalty....I can only assume that it's a result of my codependent thinking. I made excuses for him and 'protected' him for so long, that I find myself reverting back to it and then feeling guilty for talking ill about him. That codie part of me is still active, trying to remind me of what a bad life he's had and convince me that by talking bad about him (which is really just telling the truth about what happened), I'm contributing to all the pain and suffering he's endured his whole life. It's really sick thinking, isn't it? After all, it's not like he KNOWS that I'm talking about him, and moreover, I doubt he'd even care if he DID know. But I keep transferring feelings onto him of how I think or imagine he would feel if he knew....it's such a vicious cycle. But as you said, I am doing my best to try and move forward, telling myself it's over, done with and there's nothing I can do to change it. As you said, now I know better, so here's to doing a WHOLE lot better in the future!!
Since the day I was born, my Dad has been convinced that the sun rises and sets in me, and he would move Heaven and Earth to make me happy. And I know seeing me so upset all the time is tearing him apart. I feel so bad, like I've somehow let him down as well. I can't even tell you how hard it was for me to tell him the truth. I just kept crying and apologizing, I was so ashamed to admit how far I removed I had become from the person I used to be - the proverbial 'good girl' who could always be depended upon to do the 'right' thing, the girl who everyone seemed to think had the world at her feet....to go from that to someone who practically wh*red herself out to a cocaine addict who treated her like garbage. 
And believe me, I know my father does NOT think that way about me...but I can tell it distresses him that out of his three children, I'm the one who can't seem to get my personal life together!! Everyone thought that at this point, I'd be (still) married with a couple kids and living happily ever after. *sigh* Yeah, I thought that's where I'd be at this point in my life, too...!! But thank you, legna, for reminding me that there IS still a man in my life who loves me and would do anything for me. Thank you, Kindeyes, for the recommendation - I will definitely check that book out.
I have to say that it is shame I am feeling....shame for compromising my core principles and values to pathetically chase after someone who I now see was obviously not interested in anything except what I could do for him sexually. Honestly, the only thing I sometimes feel guilty about is for talking bad about him and telling people the truth about him. I don't know WHY I feel that I owe him some sense of loyalty....I can only assume that it's a result of my codependent thinking. I made excuses for him and 'protected' him for so long, that I find myself reverting back to it and then feeling guilty for talking ill about him. That codie part of me is still active, trying to remind me of what a bad life he's had and convince me that by talking bad about him (which is really just telling the truth about what happened), I'm contributing to all the pain and suffering he's endured his whole life. It's really sick thinking, isn't it? After all, it's not like he KNOWS that I'm talking about him, and moreover, I doubt he'd even care if he DID know. But I keep transferring feelings onto him of how I think or imagine he would feel if he knew....it's such a vicious cycle. But as you said, I am doing my best to try and move forward, telling myself it's over, done with and there's nothing I can do to change it. As you said, now I know better, so here's to doing a WHOLE lot better in the future!!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by EverHopeful721
I think it's awesome that you love your daughter so much, and as a Daddy's girl myself, I can relate. Since the day I was born, my Dad has been convinced that the sun rises and sets in me, and he would move Heaven and Earth to make me happy. And I know seeing me so upset all the time is tearing him apart. I feel so bad, like I've somehow let him down as well. I can't even tell you how hard it was for me to tell him the truth. I just kept crying and apologizing, I was so ashamed to admit how far I removed I had become from the person I used to be - the proverbial 'good girl' who could always be depended upon to do the 'right' thing, the girl who everyone seemed to think had the world at her feet....to go from that to someone who practically wh*red herself out to a cocaine addict who treated her like garbage. And believe me, I know my father does NOT think that way about me...but I can tell it distresses him that out of his three children, I'm the one who can't seem to get my personal life together!! Everyone thought that at this point, I'd be (still) married with a couple kids and living happily ever after. *sigh* Yeah, I thought that's where I'd be at this point in my life, too...!! But thank you, legna, for reminding me that there IS still a man in my life who loves me and would do anything for me.
Since the day I was born, my Dad has been convinced that the sun rises and sets in me, and he would move Heaven and Earth to make me happy. And I know seeing me so upset all the time is tearing him apart. I feel so bad, like I've somehow let him down as well. I can't even tell you how hard it was for me to tell him the truth. I just kept crying and apologizing, I was so ashamed to admit how far I removed I had become from the person I used to be - the proverbial 'good girl' who could always be depended upon to do the 'right' thing, the girl who everyone seemed to think had the world at her feet....to go from that to someone who practically wh*red herself out to a cocaine addict who treated her like garbage. And believe me, I know my father does NOT think that way about me...but I can tell it distresses him that out of his three children, I'm the one who can't seem to get my personal life together!! Everyone thought that at this point, I'd be (still) married with a couple kids and living happily ever after. *sigh* Yeah, I thought that's where I'd be at this point in my life, too...!! But thank you, legna, for reminding me that there IS still a man in my life who loves me and would do anything for me. I to was the apple of eyes of my father and in January, 7 2012 I lost him. It was a Sunday and I called my ex to tell him I was flying out the country that night for a week and I wanted him to pass by and just give me a hug. Do you know what this man said to me " I cant I am going to see my grandmother she is sick I have my own personal problems to deal with too you know" I was so hurt and knowing the only way he could go see his grandmother was because he had a car I brought for him but little did I know at the time he wasn’t really going to see his grandma but his other woman 300 miles away.
I know the guilt and shame you feel….i too was the good girl, the only one in my family to go to college the only one who has come this far in life who had all her s**t together then BAM I fell for this piece of crap guy who was only using me for sex and money and any other thing he could get from me….i will be 30 in August and I to feel like I am supposed to be married with kids home with white picket fence blah blah blah but here I am and you know what EverHopeful…life doesn’t always go the way we planned, we don't always get the ones we love, but you have to believe that God has a better plan for us…
Yes it sucks that we "good girl who loved our men so much and would have sacrifice for them was taken advantage of by the person we trusted the most. But what can we do now? Nothing but take what we learnt from it and move on… I know for me my heart will never be the same but maybe its not meant to be…or maybe just maybe there will come a guy who will be able to heal my broken heart and make me forget it was ever broken to begin with…
And the talking about him to others weather it’s the truth (which is mostly the horrible things he did and how horrible he treated us and used us and how bad he is) or how sweet an how painful his childhood was does not make it ok for the way they treated us…or isn't going to change what they did to us…i know when I tried telling our mutual friends the truth about our relationship some of them took my side some his….i am learning ok no I am forcing myself not be talk, think (which is almost impossible sometimes) about him….i am working on me and my future…well for now at least I am trying my God darm best…
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 505
Thank you, story. I'm so sorry that your XH said such awful, hurtful things, especially in light of a 16 year relationship - you must have been devastated. When I was dating XA#1, he would always tell me how I wasn't his type (of course, I was his type enough to have sex with, though) and how he was attracted to really petite, tiny women with tight little bodies, no big boobs or hips. WELL! I am shorter, but I've had hips and boobs since I was about 11 years old, lol!! I could lose 50 lbs and I'd still be curvy and wouldn't have some tiny, tight little body - I'm just not made that way. BUT, I followed the same line of thinking as you - maybe if I could lose a bunch of weight, I'd be more appealing to him. I didn't starve myself, but I started purging, sticking a toothbrush down my throat immediately after eating. I didn't do it every meal, and not necessarily even every day, but I can see how easily that happens. I got to the point where if I ate ANYTHING, no matter how small a portion, the feeling of having food in my stomach made me feel sick and I'd have to go purge. I started that about two years ago, continued doing it through dating XA#2 (because I figured he probably also found my body disgusting) and I still do it occasionally (have done it a few times in the last couple weeks), but I did tell my therapist about it and he obviously wants me to stop.
I'm so glad that you have discovered the confident, beautiful woman you are, and although I can't imagine ever being able to accept my body as it is, I would like to. My negative body image has held me back and been the source of such misery and insecurity for practically my whole life....I think I'd like to experience the freedom that accepting and loving my body would bring.
Kinda funny.....I just realized that I told myself I wouldn't want to be with someone who judged me so superficially, by how my body looks, but now I see that I've been doing the same exact thing to myself all these years!! Wow - lightbulb moment!! LOL
Thank you, February13. I've never tried Al-Anon, just that one CoDA meeting. But my therapist said if I want to try meetings, he would suggest Al-Anon. But I don't know that I'd really belong there since I wasn't in a 'committed' relationship with my XA and he's no longer in my life.....aren't those meetings more for people who have addicts/alcoholics in their life at the current time? I just feel like they'd say well you weren't even his girlfriend and it's over anyway, why don't you just move on with your life?
And I agree with you - as I'm getting deeper into therapy, I'm starting to uncover the reasons WHY I am the way I am. I was like you - the strong one, independent, the one who took care of everyone else. But I still haven't uncovered where my low self-esteem and feelings of unworthiness and not being good enough came from. People keep asking me, "Why don't you feel like you deserve better?? Why don't you feel like you deserve to be loved by a healthy person??" And all I can do is respond with a teary, "I don't KNOW why!!!!" Ah well, maybe soon I'll discover the answer....
I'm so glad that you have discovered the confident, beautiful woman you are, and although I can't imagine ever being able to accept my body as it is, I would like to. My negative body image has held me back and been the source of such misery and insecurity for practically my whole life....I think I'd like to experience the freedom that accepting and loving my body would bring.
Kinda funny.....I just realized that I told myself I wouldn't want to be with someone who judged me so superficially, by how my body looks, but now I see that I've been doing the same exact thing to myself all these years!! Wow - lightbulb moment!! LOL
Thank you, February13. I've never tried Al-Anon, just that one CoDA meeting. But my therapist said if I want to try meetings, he would suggest Al-Anon. But I don't know that I'd really belong there since I wasn't in a 'committed' relationship with my XA and he's no longer in my life.....aren't those meetings more for people who have addicts/alcoholics in their life at the current time? I just feel like they'd say well you weren't even his girlfriend and it's over anyway, why don't you just move on with your life?
And I agree with you - as I'm getting deeper into therapy, I'm starting to uncover the reasons WHY I am the way I am. I was like you - the strong one, independent, the one who took care of everyone else. But I still haven't uncovered where my low self-esteem and feelings of unworthiness and not being good enough came from. People keep asking me, "Why don't you feel like you deserve better?? Why don't you feel like you deserve to be loved by a healthy person??" And all I can do is respond with a teary, "I don't KNOW why!!!!" Ah well, maybe soon I'll discover the answer....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
let me clear up the bit about porn and strip clubs and how "beautiful" those women are. i'm going to speak in generalities here about the opposite sex, but it isn't how BEAUTIFUL or HOT they are, it's that they are naked and what they do or what is done to them while naked. men who are comfortable with their manhood and ego, and confident of their own sexual prowess/skills etc, do not "need" to watch other women having sex and doing kinky stuff to feel aroused and do not "need" to go to strip clubs and hand women money so they will pretend like they are interested!!!! (NEED being the key word here...)
you were not inadequate or lacking dear heart....actually it's the reverse...they had this need to have conquests and attention, to feel that women simply could not control themselves in their presence, so they could feel like a MAN, they had no ability to govern impulse control and thus needed to be stimulated at all times. then if you add in cocaine, well.....then it all goes off the charts.
you were not inadequate or lacking dear heart....actually it's the reverse...they had this need to have conquests and attention, to feel that women simply could not control themselves in their presence, so they could feel like a MAN, they had no ability to govern impulse control and thus needed to be stimulated at all times. then if you add in cocaine, well.....then it all goes off the charts.
And another nail you hit on the head - the need for constant stimulation!! I thought I was the only one who noticed this! Again, the last one in particular seemed to require that constant stimulation and I noticed over time that his need seemed to require more and more extreme measures to be satisfied.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
