what would bill do / as I see it
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 69
what would bill do / as I see it
Well hello my friends in the fellowship. I've stayed away from this forum for a while as I needed time to think and reflect on what was said. Unfortunately I've discovered that there are 2 kinds of people. People who get aa and people who dont. If you are one of the few who do, that doesn't give you the right to belittle, talk down to or patronize those who dont conform to your way of thinking.
I took a long hard look at myself and these posts and what scared me and what scares me now is that despite all the positive things that were being said, the things that really stick in your mind are the negatives.
Am I a think skinned newcomer? Am I an egomaniac? Do I just not want to "work the program" Why can't I just keep it simple "stupid"
It scares me that not just on this forum ( I have read many aa forums in the last few days) that a lot ( tho not all) of the very people who are supposed to be carrying the message are overly critical and defensive and closed minded when it comes to any questions or criticisms about aa.
The abuse that goes on in these forums between aa and non aa people is ******* craazzy and it's anything but humble or serene.
Maybe those overly defensive people should ask what would bill do? In these circumstances? Tell a newcomer "maybe aa isn't for you" if they ask a few difficult questions?
And an observation on the sponsor/sponsee relationship and who should approach who.
I was approached by this weirdo using the tactics outlined in the book.
Does it say in the book anywhere that it should be the sponsee approaching the sponsor? As I thought was the custom or so people say in meetings. Find someone you relate to and approach them.
I genuinely worry for the next newcomer this sponsor tries to recruit
That old saying comes to mind "who police's the police"
Anyway I'm still sober and sponsorless and my meeting attendance has declined dramatically. I spend the time I had spent in meetings twice a day with my girlfriend and my friends doing non drinking related things and Strangely I feel a whole lot better as a result.
I took a long hard look at myself and these posts and what scared me and what scares me now is that despite all the positive things that were being said, the things that really stick in your mind are the negatives.
Am I a think skinned newcomer? Am I an egomaniac? Do I just not want to "work the program" Why can't I just keep it simple "stupid"
It scares me that not just on this forum ( I have read many aa forums in the last few days) that a lot ( tho not all) of the very people who are supposed to be carrying the message are overly critical and defensive and closed minded when it comes to any questions or criticisms about aa.
The abuse that goes on in these forums between aa and non aa people is ******* craazzy and it's anything but humble or serene.
Maybe those overly defensive people should ask what would bill do? In these circumstances? Tell a newcomer "maybe aa isn't for you" if they ask a few difficult questions?
And an observation on the sponsor/sponsee relationship and who should approach who.
I was approached by this weirdo using the tactics outlined in the book.
Does it say in the book anywhere that it should be the sponsee approaching the sponsor? As I thought was the custom or so people say in meetings. Find someone you relate to and approach them.
I genuinely worry for the next newcomer this sponsor tries to recruit
That old saying comes to mind "who police's the police"
Anyway I'm still sober and sponsorless and my meeting attendance has declined dramatically. I spend the time I had spent in meetings twice a day with my girlfriend and my friends doing non drinking related things and Strangely I feel a whole lot better as a result.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,477
I have to say I'm not sure what your motivation is here sobersanity.
If certain members put you off, you can certainly put them on ignore - you won't see their posts or recieve PMs from them.
If you don't like a certain thread you can report posts that break a rule, or you can just not read the thread.
If you don't like the forum you don't have to post here at all.
I'm not in AA...but this is your third thread on this?
It seems an awful lot like ax grinding to me.
Maybe you should let it go?
D
If certain members put you off, you can certainly put them on ignore - you won't see their posts or recieve PMs from them.
If you don't like a certain thread you can report posts that break a rule, or you can just not read the thread.
If you don't like the forum you don't have to post here at all.
I'm not in AA...but this is your third thread on this?
It seems an awful lot like ax grinding to me.
Maybe you should let it go?
D
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
I'm not real sure what you are getting at...But for myself I know that AA is a program of recovery. One that takes action. It's a design for living without alcohol. Bill not only worked this program...He put it into words in a book...The number happened to come up 12. I've had to cut back on my meetings too...Due to work. But I live this simple program everyday...Because I took those steps with a sponsor who I sought out...Because he had what I wanted....Why did I seek out my sponsor?....Because I was willing to go to any lengths. I wish you the best with whatever you do to live a happy, productive life without alcohol.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,477
Personally I think you're doing a little more than sharing experience - there's some stuff in here that's definitely a follow on from other threads and could well be considered flame baiting and/or personal attacks....but I'm not going to cut and paste examples.
I'll stick to modding - time will tell where this thread goes I guess
D
I'll stick to modding - time will tell where this thread goes I guess
D
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
A sponsor is supposed to take you through the steps in order that you may have your own spiritual experience and recover from alcoholism.
It seems to me that you weren't ready to do this from the start which means hopefully the sponsor you had will learn from this experience and pre-qualify his next sponsee in a more formal and in-depth manner. It's pretty simple all he has to do is ask are you willing to do whatever i say, i won't tell you to do anything that isn't in the Big Book. If the sponsees answer is no then the sponsor should move on to the next person.
You are right AA has become too wishy washy and unfortunately some people literally try and love the alcoholic to death, personally i wouldn't even contemplate helping anybody unless they were ready to work the steps immediately to the best of their ability, i would expect lots of questions along the way of course but i would also point out that up to this point that particular newcomer had listened to themselves,and used their own judgement, which led them to the doors of AA so it might be prudent to shut the **** up and listen to me whilst we do the initial step work, beyond which you won't need me anymore but if you would like to keep me around that's cool too.
If what you are doing means you are free from the mental obsession for alcohol and happy then keep doing that!
It seems to me that you weren't ready to do this from the start which means hopefully the sponsor you had will learn from this experience and pre-qualify his next sponsee in a more formal and in-depth manner. It's pretty simple all he has to do is ask are you willing to do whatever i say, i won't tell you to do anything that isn't in the Big Book. If the sponsees answer is no then the sponsor should move on to the next person.
You are right AA has become too wishy washy and unfortunately some people literally try and love the alcoholic to death, personally i wouldn't even contemplate helping anybody unless they were ready to work the steps immediately to the best of their ability, i would expect lots of questions along the way of course but i would also point out that up to this point that particular newcomer had listened to themselves,and used their own judgement, which led them to the doors of AA so it might be prudent to shut the **** up and listen to me whilst we do the initial step work, beyond which you won't need me anymore but if you would like to keep me around that's cool too.
If what you are doing means you are free from the mental obsession for alcohol and happy then keep doing that!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Anyway I'm still sober and sponsorless and my meeting attendance has declined dramatically. I spend the time I had spent in meetings twice a day with my girlfriend and my friends doing non drinking related things and Strangely I feel a whole lot better as a result.
I think you may have answered your own question. you cannot control your previous sponsor either, sometimes you have to just stop picking the scab so the new skin can grow. I'm really glad you are still following your sobriety.
I think you may have answered your own question. you cannot control your previous sponsor either, sometimes you have to just stop picking the scab so the new skin can grow. I'm really glad you are still following your sobriety.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 69
Sorry I double posted there.
I am absolutely not flame baiting etc.
There has been a largely healthy debate going on about these issues I have raised. I am genuinely interested to hear people's opinions and also air my own. This is an open forum people have the same choice as I do regarding who they ignore. If they dont wish to contribute or reply thats their decision,
Dee I have genuine questions and some concerns which I would honestly like to hear what people have to say about them. Or not as the case may be.
I am absolutely not flame baiting etc.
There has been a largely healthy debate going on about these issues I have raised. I am genuinely interested to hear people's opinions and also air my own. This is an open forum people have the same choice as I do regarding who they ignore. If they dont wish to contribute or reply thats their decision,
Dee I have genuine questions and some concerns which I would honestly like to hear what people have to say about them. Or not as the case may be.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,969
big book published in 1939
pamphlet published in 1944
Bill W. said, "AA can and must change"
Take this pamphlet into consideration after reading the history of AA and how the world was then and how AA and the world are now...
A.A. Sponsorship Pamphlet, 1944, by Clarence S.
pamphlet published in 1944
Bill W. said, "AA can and must change"
Take this pamphlet into consideration after reading the history of AA and how the world was then and how AA and the world are now...
A.A. Sponsorship Pamphlet, 1944, by Clarence S.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,969
Significant changes, not really; those 12 steps still do what they were intended to do, the rest of the fellowship, not really much change has taken place, still a bunch of personalities at different stages of recovery or illness.
Drugs and alcohol were prevalent then and are prevalent now.
Not much has truly changed....then again, we have much more technology and people and opinions today, so in a sense, yes, everything has changed.....
No one hurts me without my permission today.
Drugs and alcohol were prevalent then and are prevalent now.
Not much has truly changed....then again, we have much more technology and people and opinions today, so in a sense, yes, everything has changed.....
No one hurts me without my permission today.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 453
I think questions are great. I know people who love AA and people who hate AA and it's all the same to me. I go because it helps me and I love it when people ask questions.
That being said, I also know that people in AA are just that. People. They don't always say what we want to hear, they don't always behave how we want them to behave, there is no test or admission criteria that you need to fulfill to become a member of AA (except for a desire to quit drinking), which is absolutely its strength. It's free and no one is obligated to go.
Not everyone wants to debate AA or answer hard questions about it. Just like not everyone in church wants to debate dogma, not everyone in literature classes wants to discuss if Shakespeare really wrote his plays, not everyone who votes wants to have in depth political discussions. We're all different.
And, yeah, some people will try to belittle you, but that's just how the world is. In and out of AA. I guess the best thing to do is try not to be one of those people, as much as humanly possible.
Just like in life, if you meet someone who really rubs you the wrong way, maybe look at why. Sometimes it's because they tell you what you need to hear but don't want to and sometimes it's because they're jerks. It's hard to tell which is which sometimes, but ultimately it's your life so you get to decide who you want to listen to. And sometimes jerks have good things to say and nice people can have crap to say. And vice versa.
I don't know what Bill W. would do. He was an ex-drunk like me and not a saint, so I guess while I'm grateful to him for starting the program, I don't look at him as a guru. I've got my own take on the AA program and that's the beauty of it.
I'm glad you're sober and finding your way.
That being said, I also know that people in AA are just that. People. They don't always say what we want to hear, they don't always behave how we want them to behave, there is no test or admission criteria that you need to fulfill to become a member of AA (except for a desire to quit drinking), which is absolutely its strength. It's free and no one is obligated to go.
Not everyone wants to debate AA or answer hard questions about it. Just like not everyone in church wants to debate dogma, not everyone in literature classes wants to discuss if Shakespeare really wrote his plays, not everyone who votes wants to have in depth political discussions. We're all different.
And, yeah, some people will try to belittle you, but that's just how the world is. In and out of AA. I guess the best thing to do is try not to be one of those people, as much as humanly possible.
Just like in life, if you meet someone who really rubs you the wrong way, maybe look at why. Sometimes it's because they tell you what you need to hear but don't want to and sometimes it's because they're jerks. It's hard to tell which is which sometimes, but ultimately it's your life so you get to decide who you want to listen to. And sometimes jerks have good things to say and nice people can have crap to say. And vice versa.
I don't know what Bill W. would do. He was an ex-drunk like me and not a saint, so I guess while I'm grateful to him for starting the program, I don't look at him as a guru. I've got my own take on the AA program and that's the beauty of it.
I'm glad you're sober and finding your way.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 69
Guys one last genuine question.
Again this is a genuine question that you can answer or not.
Is it possible that what we are doing is causing more harm than good ?
For every one of us that stays sober in the long term are we hurting scores more?
Again I stress that this is a genuine non flame baiting question
Again this is a genuine question that you can answer or not.
Is it possible that what we are doing is causing more harm than good ?
For every one of us that stays sober in the long term are we hurting scores more?
Again I stress that this is a genuine non flame baiting question
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
Glad you're sober and happy sobersanity. May be you should focus on the positive stuff. I find I generally have a better day when I can do that. Surround yourself with the people that make you smile. How about some posts from you that make others smile?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by sobersanity 
Anyway I'm still sober and sponsorless and my meeting attendance has declined dramatically. I spend the time I had spent in meetings twice a day with my girlfriend and my friends doing non drinking related things and Strangely I feel a whole lot better as a result.
If it doesn't work out for you, there are plenty of other ways besides AA to get sober... and AA will always be here if you want it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by sobersanity
Again I stress that this is a genuine non flame baiting question
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