Egregious Saturday Night- Memory Bias?
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Egregious Saturday Night- Memory Bias?
I have a whole story here, but I want to preface it with a question. Does anyone have a comment on the memory biases of alcoholics?
Last night my husband and I were set to go to an event that I had been very excited about. I come home from work and he's toasted. He says that we can be late to the event and I won't miss my favorite part.
I acquiesce and we wait for a while until I get concerned. I tell him and he finally gets arounds to eating dinner. I suggest he gets dressed and eat in the car on the way there. He refuses and he asks me what my tension is all about. I make up some innocuous thing because I know drunk confrontions with him are prolongued and often intractable and I wanted him to walk with me to the event because the part of town is sketchy.
In truth I am dismayed and anxious that he is drunk. I finally say so when he is pushing me for the truth.
On the way to the event, he tells me the whole time what an ******* I am. He is navigating with his phone, and is telling me the wrong street to drive down repeatedly. Meanwhile it gets later and later as we drive around and he keeps telling me nastily how I can't ever take responsibility for anything (including getting us lost and being late). For me he says, it's always blame, blame, blame on him.
I find the place and park, and he wants to "talk" before he will let me go to the event (he has the credit card for will call). I am almost apoplectic at this time with the prospect of him hold me there indefinitely "talking" while my event goes on by, so I beg for the credit card to go ahead. He acts like he's going to smoke by the car. He never shows up to the event. He doesn't return phone calls or texts asking where he is, except for one, finally, saying he is ok, but not saying where he is. I had asked where was was repeatedly. I had texted begging him not to screw around and just to say where he was.
I end up leaving the event (which I had so looked forward to) to go drive the streets to look for him. I finally find him at home. He had walked there. I am so angry I could spit. I hit him in the chest. I do not hit people. I have never hit a person. (I am also tiny and not very strong and he is much bigger than me)
I yelled at him and asked if he got my phone calls and messages. He said he didn't want to talk to me, and he did text that he was ok. This strikes me as infuriatingly passive aggressive.
This morning all that remains for him seems to be that I hit him and how awful that was for me to do. He doesn't remember being a drunken passive aggressive *******.
I needed to write it out and blow off steam. Thank you.
Last night my husband and I were set to go to an event that I had been very excited about. I come home from work and he's toasted. He says that we can be late to the event and I won't miss my favorite part.
I acquiesce and we wait for a while until I get concerned. I tell him and he finally gets arounds to eating dinner. I suggest he gets dressed and eat in the car on the way there. He refuses and he asks me what my tension is all about. I make up some innocuous thing because I know drunk confrontions with him are prolongued and often intractable and I wanted him to walk with me to the event because the part of town is sketchy.
In truth I am dismayed and anxious that he is drunk. I finally say so when he is pushing me for the truth.
On the way to the event, he tells me the whole time what an ******* I am. He is navigating with his phone, and is telling me the wrong street to drive down repeatedly. Meanwhile it gets later and later as we drive around and he keeps telling me nastily how I can't ever take responsibility for anything (including getting us lost and being late). For me he says, it's always blame, blame, blame on him.
I find the place and park, and he wants to "talk" before he will let me go to the event (he has the credit card for will call). I am almost apoplectic at this time with the prospect of him hold me there indefinitely "talking" while my event goes on by, so I beg for the credit card to go ahead. He acts like he's going to smoke by the car. He never shows up to the event. He doesn't return phone calls or texts asking where he is, except for one, finally, saying he is ok, but not saying where he is. I had asked where was was repeatedly. I had texted begging him not to screw around and just to say where he was.
I end up leaving the event (which I had so looked forward to) to go drive the streets to look for him. I finally find him at home. He had walked there. I am so angry I could spit. I hit him in the chest. I do not hit people. I have never hit a person. (I am also tiny and not very strong and he is much bigger than me)
I yelled at him and asked if he got my phone calls and messages. He said he didn't want to talk to me, and he did text that he was ok. This strikes me as infuriatingly passive aggressive.
This morning all that remains for him seems to be that I hit him and how awful that was for me to do. He doesn't remember being a drunken passive aggressive *******.
I needed to write it out and blow off steam. Thank you.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Memory biases of alcoholics...hmmmm...well for one, when a person is under the influence, they are not going to have an accurate recall of events. That's plain old physiology. But what you describe sounds like something different. It's not a memory issue, its a blame issue. He wanted to drink instead. You got in the way of that, he lashed out at you all evening, both directly and passive-aggressively. Of course he's angry! You didn't "pay attention" to all the non-verbal cues that he didn't want to do to this event anyway, and you are supposed to know these things by the simple act of mind-reading!
Now, my question for you is, why set yourself up like that? There are more effective ways of getting your needs met. I've actually served as emergency back-up for Al-Anon friends who made plans with their A's. Not that I would sit around waiting for a frantic "he's too drunk to go with me" call, but if I had no plans for the evening, didn't mind being on-call in case it did happen. Do you have any family or friends who you could make plans with in these circumstances?
Second question - do you go to l-Anon or read books on alcoholism? You'll find your evening above was pretty common. And so is the lack of remorse or acknowledgement to you today for his bad behavior. Because if he can focus on YOU, he doesn't need to look at HIMSELF. Because if he had to look at himself, he'd have to think about making some changes. And right now, he doesn't want to change. So its your fault.
I am sorry your evening turned out like it did. It must have been terribly disappointing.
Peace,
~T
Now, my question for you is, why set yourself up like that? There are more effective ways of getting your needs met. I've actually served as emergency back-up for Al-Anon friends who made plans with their A's. Not that I would sit around waiting for a frantic "he's too drunk to go with me" call, but if I had no plans for the evening, didn't mind being on-call in case it did happen. Do you have any family or friends who you could make plans with in these circumstances?
Second question - do you go to l-Anon or read books on alcoholism? You'll find your evening above was pretty common. And so is the lack of remorse or acknowledgement to you today for his bad behavior. Because if he can focus on YOU, he doesn't need to look at HIMSELF. Because if he had to look at himself, he'd have to think about making some changes. And right now, he doesn't want to change. So its your fault.
I am sorry your evening turned out like it did. It must have been terribly disappointing.
Peace,
~T
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 64
I have had lots of events and holidays turn out like that. Ick. It's horrible. I like Tuffgirl's idea of finding someone else to spend time with... or even going places by yourself. No way you can depend on an A to be with you and be sober when it's most important. I've even gone as far as trying to extract promises about not drinking before certain events that were important to me. It's never worked. The only one to blame for holding those expectations of a drinking alcoholic is me.
So so sorry your night was crappy. As for the memory thing, I agree that some of it is physiological, and some of it is magical... as in... see? poor me. She's so mean to me.... better have a drink.
Take care,
L
So so sorry your night was crappy. As for the memory thing, I agree that some of it is physiological, and some of it is magical... as in... see? poor me. She's so mean to me.... better have a drink.
Take care,
L
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 211
My AH, when we were together, did this a lot! The whole drag it out to leave, want to sit in the car and "talk" or smoke or whatever just so he could keep drinking. By the time we would get somewhere, we would be late and I would be in a state of frustration like you would believe since you are living it.
I feel for you. For me, that behavior never stopped and neither did the passive aggressive stuff and selective memory until I left. Even now that he is doing AA and seems sober/dry, he still has selective memory.
It drives me crazy
For me, it came down to: do I really want to live like this? Only you can answer that one for you.
I feel for you. For me, that behavior never stopped and neither did the passive aggressive stuff and selective memory until I left. Even now that he is doing AA and seems sober/dry, he still has selective memory.
It drives me crazy
For me, it came down to: do I really want to live like this? Only you can answer that one for you.
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Well, as it turns out, he says that he didn't read each and every one of my texts, he just chose to ignore them along with my phone calls. So he wasn't completely aware of how badly I wanted to find him, only a little. Why he did not tell me where he was, only that he was fine, he has no answer for.
He did agree that his behavior was terrible though. He did hold my feet to the fire about hitting him. He wanted an apology. He said he didn't feel respected. I don't actually feel sorry though. He has not spoken of any harm to him from it. And it was very cathartic for me.
While One should not hit people, and while I don't intend to do so in the future, I am not really sorry.
He did agree that his behavior was terrible though. He did hold my feet to the fire about hitting him. He wanted an apology. He said he didn't feel respected. I don't actually feel sorry though. He has not spoken of any harm to him from it. And it was very cathartic for me.
While One should not hit people, and while I don't intend to do so in the future, I am not really sorry.
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
Gotta say it... Bull$hit. He got each and every one of the text messages and saw all of your calls. As Tuffgirl said, you were getting in the way of what he really wanted to do... And he isn't ever going to admit that. So telling you some bogus story is easier for him than the truth... And it helps him deflect blame on to you.
He's upset about YOU not respecting him?!? Phhhtt. To heck with that.
Having back up plans help protect me from alcoholic antics as well. As time went on, I began to see just how little I was actually able to do with my AH.
He's upset about YOU not respecting him?!? Phhhtt. To heck with that.
Having back up plans help protect me from alcoholic antics as well. As time went on, I began to see just how little I was actually able to do with my AH.
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 386
My heart goes out. This gave me such flashbacks to nights when RABF was drinking. I got to a point where I dreaded all social events, sporting events, parties, work events, family dinners, weekends etc because I never knew how he would be.
Also, I remember one very horrible night where I got so infuriated with him that I hit him. I was so ashamed and disgusted with myself. How could I lose it like that?! It never failed to amaze me how he would be the one in the wrong, but I would somehow end up the bad guy. I'd say something or behave in a way that I'd completely lower myself. Ugh.
I'm sorry you had a hideous night. Next event, invite a friend! You'll have way more fun!
Also, I remember one very horrible night where I got so infuriated with him that I hit him. I was so ashamed and disgusted with myself. How could I lose it like that?! It never failed to amaze me how he would be the one in the wrong, but I would somehow end up the bad guy. I'd say something or behave in a way that I'd completely lower myself. Ugh.
I'm sorry you had a hideous night. Next event, invite a friend! You'll have way more fun!
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 49
Thank you ladies. Stuff like this where he's screwing around with me, with my head makes me wonder where it stops. He complains that I don't trust him, that I seem to think he's a bad guy. I think there's a lot I don't know about him, and there's a lot he doesn't consciously know about himself.
Our talk about his behavior last night, for which I got some sort of apology and promise not to do it again, segued immediately into a conversation involving the bad things I wrongly think about him. The conversation dwelled on an example of my wrongdoing that occured 1-2 years ago. An apology was expected so that he could feel confident I wouldn't do it again.
I feel harangued. He says it's because I "have such a tendency to feel criticized," and that he is legitimately trying to resolve something important to him.
I feel like screaming.
Our talk about his behavior last night, for which I got some sort of apology and promise not to do it again, segued immediately into a conversation involving the bad things I wrongly think about him. The conversation dwelled on an example of my wrongdoing that occured 1-2 years ago. An apology was expected so that he could feel confident I wouldn't do it again.
I feel harangued. He says it's because I "have such a tendency to feel criticized," and that he is legitimately trying to resolve something important to him.
I feel like screaming.
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
I don't blame you for feeling like screaming...
I had many of those same circular conversation with alcoholism over the years. I would try to have a discussion about something that bothered me... And would always end up defending myself and apologizing for something I did.
Don't take it personally. It's the disease. Deflecting and blame shifting are its signature survival mechanisms. If the attention gets shifted on to you... The alcoholic has successfully dodged further discussions on the drinking and associated behavior.
Once this was pointed out to me... I saw it in almost all our conversations. It was so sad how much the alcoholic avoided taking responsibility. And how easily everything got shifted to me... Especially because I had an over active sense of responsibility and apologized for everything.
Scream away sweetie. We understand.
I had many of those same circular conversation with alcoholism over the years. I would try to have a discussion about something that bothered me... And would always end up defending myself and apologizing for something I did.
Don't take it personally. It's the disease. Deflecting and blame shifting are its signature survival mechanisms. If the attention gets shifted on to you... The alcoholic has successfully dodged further discussions on the drinking and associated behavior.
Once this was pointed out to me... I saw it in almost all our conversations. It was so sad how much the alcoholic avoided taking responsibility. And how easily everything got shifted to me... Especially because I had an over active sense of responsibility and apologized for everything.
Scream away sweetie. We understand.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Originally Posted by kale 
Last night my husband and I were set to go to an event that I had been very excited about.
I come home from work and he's toasted.
He says that we can be late to the event
and I won't miss my favorite part.
I acquiesce and we wait for a while until I get concerned.
I tell him and he finally gets arounds to eating dinner.
On the way to the event, he tells me the whole time what an ******* I am.
He is navigating with his phone, and is telling me the wrong street to drive down repeatedly. Meanwhile it gets later and later as we drive around and he keeps telling me nastily how I can't ever take responsibility for anything (including getting us lost and being late). For me he says, it's always blame, blame, blame on him.
I find the place and park, and he wants to "talk" before he will let me go to the event (he has the credit card for will call).
. He acts like he's going to smoke by the car.
He never shows up to the event.
He doesn't return phone calls or texts asking where he is, except for one, finally, saying he is ok, but not saying where he is.
I come home from work and he's toasted.
He says that we can be late to the event
and I won't miss my favorite part.
I acquiesce and we wait for a while until I get concerned.
I tell him and he finally gets arounds to eating dinner.
On the way to the event, he tells me the whole time what an ******* I am.
He is navigating with his phone, and is telling me the wrong street to drive down repeatedly. Meanwhile it gets later and later as we drive around and he keeps telling me nastily how I can't ever take responsibility for anything (including getting us lost and being late). For me he says, it's always blame, blame, blame on him.
I find the place and park, and he wants to "talk" before he will let me go to the event (he has the credit card for will call).
. He acts like he's going to smoke by the car.
He never shows up to the event.
He doesn't return phone calls or texts asking where he is, except for one, finally, saying he is ok, but not saying where he is.
His entire evening was focused on treating you with disrespect, and he minimized your feelings.
Alcoholism is progressive.
It will get worse.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 49
If I may rant a little more... When he is drinking, I am anxious. He can tell and feels uncomfortable with that. He demands to know what I'm thinking. I usually try to avoid telling him, because if I say I'm unhappy with him drinking while he's drinking he does a combination of dismissing me, blaming me, and getting mad.
I avoid this. He says it is my responsibility to tell me what I'm thinking, damn the consequences.
Thus I find myself in the middle of a sticky catch-22 mess.
I avoid this. He says it is my responsibility to tell me what I'm thinking, damn the consequences.
Thus I find myself in the middle of a sticky catch-22 mess.
Stoic
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
I’d like to share one of my stories regarding my AW and her ability to ruin a “big” event, to show that you definitely aren’t alone. About four years ago, my work was planning on a big Easter picnic in the morning, with booths, rides, egg hunts, the works. I was planning on bringing our 3 y/o daughter, and 14 y/o son and I was talking it up for a good week or more. The morning that the event was planned, AW was completely inebriated. (which at that time was more or less a constant thing)
As we’re dressed, and getting ready to go out the door (not her, she never participated in anything), she all of a sudden said that I wasn’t allowed to take the children to the Easter event, since we’re not Christian. She’d known about this event for the entire time, and never expressed concerns previously, until now when we were literally walking out the door. I told her that she was acting irrationally, and that we were going anyways. (This was long before I learned how to productively interact with AW) She claimed that if we left, she would call the police and tell them I was abducting our children. At this point, I was so furious at her actions, I called her bluff and told her that she had better call the police, because we were going. So, she picked up the phone, and dialed 911 and did exactly what she said she was going to do.
At this point, I of course couldn’t leave with the kids, so sat around and waiting the 15 minutes or so for a cruiser to show up. The next hour or so consisted of me sitting out on the porch by myself and under watch, while the police interviewed her and my 14 y/o son (who was as mad at her actions as I was).
After the police realized what was going on, and saw that what I told them in the beginning that the truth, they basically told her not to waste their time like that again. The kids and I left to the Easter event, quite late, with the 14 y/o and I pretty upset and having the morning ruined. At least the 3 y/o was too young to realize what happened, so she enjoyed herself regardless.
As we’re dressed, and getting ready to go out the door (not her, she never participated in anything), she all of a sudden said that I wasn’t allowed to take the children to the Easter event, since we’re not Christian. She’d known about this event for the entire time, and never expressed concerns previously, until now when we were literally walking out the door. I told her that she was acting irrationally, and that we were going anyways. (This was long before I learned how to productively interact with AW) She claimed that if we left, she would call the police and tell them I was abducting our children. At this point, I was so furious at her actions, I called her bluff and told her that she had better call the police, because we were going. So, she picked up the phone, and dialed 911 and did exactly what she said she was going to do.
At this point, I of course couldn’t leave with the kids, so sat around and waiting the 15 minutes or so for a cruiser to show up. The next hour or so consisted of me sitting out on the porch by myself and under watch, while the police interviewed her and my 14 y/o son (who was as mad at her actions as I was).
After the police realized what was going on, and saw that what I told them in the beginning that the truth, they basically told her not to waste their time like that again. The kids and I left to the Easter event, quite late, with the 14 y/o and I pretty upset and having the morning ruined. At least the 3 y/o was too young to realize what happened, so she enjoyed herself regardless.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SAN FRANCISCO
Posts: 1,176
It sounds like he totally ruined your evening and that would have driven me crazy as well... yes they can have difficulty remembering things they have done under the influence which makes arguing with them totally impossible. One of the favorite tricks of my axbf was to do something totally stupid and outrageous, pick a fight and then accuse me of having the drinking problem. Being with them will drive you bats*it crazy...
I have to say it really isn't okay to hit someone though, though I can understand why you were so mad. Probably a better idea just to walk away from this one.
I have to say it really isn't okay to hit someone though, though I can understand why you were so mad. Probably a better idea just to walk away from this one.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by ResignedToWait
I’d like to share one of my stories regarding my AW and her ability to ruin a “big” event, to show that you definitely aren’t alone. About four years ago, my work was planning on a big Easter picnic in the morning, with booths, rides, egg hunts, the works. I was planning on bringing our 3 y/o daughter, and 14 y/o son and I was talking it up for a good week or more. The morning that the event was planned, AW was completely inebriated. (which at that time was more or less a constant thing)
As we’re dressed, and getting ready to go out the door (not her, she never participated in anything), she all of a sudden said that I wasn’t allowed to take the children to the Easter event, since we’re not Christian. She’d known about this event for the entire time, and never expressed concerns previously, until now when we were literally walking out the door. I told her that she was acting irrationally, and that we were going anyways. (This was long before I learned how to productively interact with AW) She claimed that if we left, she would call the police and tell them I was abducting our children. At this point, I was so furious at her actions, I called her bluff and told her that she had better call the police, because we were going. So, she picked up the phone, and dialed 911 and did exactly what she said she was going to do.
At this point, I of course couldn’t leave with the kids, so sat around and waiting the 15 minutes or so for a cruiser to show up. The next hour or so consisted of me sitting out on the porch by myself and under watch, while the police interviewed her and my 14 y/o son (who was as mad at her actions as I was).
After the police realized what was going on, and saw that what I told them in the beginning that the truth, they basically told her not to waste their time like that again. The kids and I left to the Easter event, quite late, with the 14 y/o and I pretty upset and having the morning ruined. At least the 3 y/o was too young to realize what happened, so she enjoyed herself regardless.
As we’re dressed, and getting ready to go out the door (not her, she never participated in anything), she all of a sudden said that I wasn’t allowed to take the children to the Easter event, since we’re not Christian. She’d known about this event for the entire time, and never expressed concerns previously, until now when we were literally walking out the door. I told her that she was acting irrationally, and that we were going anyways. (This was long before I learned how to productively interact with AW) She claimed that if we left, she would call the police and tell them I was abducting our children. At this point, I was so furious at her actions, I called her bluff and told her that she had better call the police, because we were going. So, she picked up the phone, and dialed 911 and did exactly what she said she was going to do.
At this point, I of course couldn’t leave with the kids, so sat around and waiting the 15 minutes or so for a cruiser to show up. The next hour or so consisted of me sitting out on the porch by myself and under watch, while the police interviewed her and my 14 y/o son (who was as mad at her actions as I was).
After the police realized what was going on, and saw that what I told them in the beginning that the truth, they basically told her not to waste their time like that again. The kids and I left to the Easter event, quite late, with the 14 y/o and I pretty upset and having the morning ruined. At least the 3 y/o was too young to realize what happened, so she enjoyed herself regardless.
I am glad you allowed that incident to happen. although it inconvenienced you, it was well-played.
I think we can all tell stories like the ones on this thread. It is a very common thing in alcoholic relationships. I've often wondered if two alcoholics do this to each other or if they are just happy being drunk together?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 654
I'm sorry that your event got ruined 
I'm sure all you wanted to do was enjoy an event you had been looking forward to with your husband. It really shouldn't be much to ask for your husband to join you at an event that means something to you just as other couples do, except you can't because he is an A. I would go with some of the suggestions with either going to events by yourself or having a friend or family memeber to go with. When it comes down to it, planning on going somewhere with an A is like planning to have a terrible chaotic night full of dissapointment right out the gate
I also think his memory loss is partly from the drinking but more from choosing to remember only certain events. Of course he remembers you hitting him, that is the one part of the night where you slipped up and he could turn around and blame you about something. It is ever so convient that he doesn't remember how he ruined your night and caused you to worry so much you ended up leaving the event early even though you got there late. Have you considered some detatchment? I found that when I started going out and deciding not to check my phone and to not worry about what my A was doing that I was able to enjoy myself. It just wasn't worth worrying about where he was, he will do what he wants and choose not to answer if I was going to get in the way of his using.
I hope that you can get to a point where you can enjoy yourself when you are out, regardless of what your husband is doing.
hugs
Maylie
I'm sure all you wanted to do was enjoy an event you had been looking forward to with your husband. It really shouldn't be much to ask for your husband to join you at an event that means something to you just as other couples do, except you can't because he is an A. I would go with some of the suggestions with either going to events by yourself or having a friend or family memeber to go with. When it comes down to it, planning on going somewhere with an A is like planning to have a terrible chaotic night full of dissapointment right out the gate I also think his memory loss is partly from the drinking but more from choosing to remember only certain events. Of course he remembers you hitting him, that is the one part of the night where you slipped up and he could turn around and blame you about something. It is ever so convient that he doesn't remember how he ruined your night and caused you to worry so much you ended up leaving the event early even though you got there late. Have you considered some detatchment? I found that when I started going out and deciding not to check my phone and to not worry about what my A was doing that I was able to enjoy myself. It just wasn't worth worrying about where he was, he will do what he wants and choose not to answer if I was going to get in the way of his using.
I hope that you can get to a point where you can enjoy yourself when you are out, regardless of what your husband is doing.
hugs
Maylie
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