Trouble in Paradise
Journey To Me
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Kyle, Texas
Posts: 395
Trouble in Paradise
I could use another perspective on this one. Today, on my way home from work I spoke to my RAH. He had been down throughout the day about his slow moving real estate career. I tried to point him to the bright side of things and reminded him that it will take patients (patients has never been his strong suit). Anyway, when I spoke to him on my way home he seemed even more down and unusually quite. I already had a gut feeling that things were not right. We hung up the line because he said that he had another caller. I then called my mom as I always do and I continued on my home as normal. He texted me knowing my habit and asked me not to be on the phone when I got home (red flag signaled).
Sure enough when I got home he asked me to sit down, and he told me that he messed up. I could see it in his eyes. He said he drank almost a pint. I asked him if it was all gone. He said yes. I asked him what his plan is, and he said that now wasn't the time to iron out details for a plan. I said, "okay," and told him that I love him. I let him know that he is in charge of his own destiny, and if he wanted my opinion I know that he deserves better then the life that he once lived. I let him know that he needs to make his choices, and reminded him that this is his recovery, and where I stood. I also said that for myself I needed to be away from him right now. He said okay. I made my dinner, ate it, grabbed the laptop, and went to the bedroom. That is were I sit now.
A little back history for those that do not know. My RAH and I had a mess of a marriage because of the alcohol and his actions when he drinks. I became codependent, and am trying to learn and make my journey. Late July to early August 2011 it was getting hairy. I spoke to a lawyer regarding possible divorce. Unrelated my RAH tried to take his own life. He wound up in the ER, followed by a mental hospital (his choice), and then outpatient rehab (also his choice). Everything has been smooth since. We give each other our own space so we can reflect on ourselves. He started a new career as a Realtor as said his prior job was a huge trigger he had said. I have been working on me. I decided to do a whole "zen" thing. I began to eat healthy and am working on weight loss to live healthier. I do not drink. I try to consciously treat others as I would want to be treated, and most recently quit smoking.
Where do I go from here? Did I say the right things? Do you have any thoughts on this? One of my boundaries just got crossed, but did it really? I said I will not tolerate drunkenness around me anymore. I do not want to live with a drunk. Did he cross that boundary or does it depend on the next course of actions do you think? So much confusion. I hate it.
Do you have any thoughts on this? I am so sad now...
Sure enough when I got home he asked me to sit down, and he told me that he messed up. I could see it in his eyes. He said he drank almost a pint. I asked him if it was all gone. He said yes. I asked him what his plan is, and he said that now wasn't the time to iron out details for a plan. I said, "okay," and told him that I love him. I let him know that he is in charge of his own destiny, and if he wanted my opinion I know that he deserves better then the life that he once lived. I let him know that he needs to make his choices, and reminded him that this is his recovery, and where I stood. I also said that for myself I needed to be away from him right now. He said okay. I made my dinner, ate it, grabbed the laptop, and went to the bedroom. That is were I sit now.
A little back history for those that do not know. My RAH and I had a mess of a marriage because of the alcohol and his actions when he drinks. I became codependent, and am trying to learn and make my journey. Late July to early August 2011 it was getting hairy. I spoke to a lawyer regarding possible divorce. Unrelated my RAH tried to take his own life. He wound up in the ER, followed by a mental hospital (his choice), and then outpatient rehab (also his choice). Everything has been smooth since. We give each other our own space so we can reflect on ourselves. He started a new career as a Realtor as said his prior job was a huge trigger he had said. I have been working on me. I decided to do a whole "zen" thing. I began to eat healthy and am working on weight loss to live healthier. I do not drink. I try to consciously treat others as I would want to be treated, and most recently quit smoking.
Where do I go from here? Did I say the right things? Do you have any thoughts on this? One of my boundaries just got crossed, but did it really? I said I will not tolerate drunkenness around me anymore. I do not want to live with a drunk. Did he cross that boundary or does it depend on the next course of actions do you think? So much confusion. I hate it.
Do you have any thoughts on this? I am so sad now...
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 139
I'm so sorry to hear this. I know what you are going through. *hug*
It sounds to me from his response, its not the time..., that this may become, if it isn't already, a full blown relapse.
I often wonder if any alcoholic is able to stay sober. There almost always seems to be a kind of up and down pattern. They almost always seem to go back.
I personally, couldn't take that inevitability anymore. It's why I feel so at peace with my decision to leave, whether he sobers up or not. I would always be waiting to find that empty bottle in my home.
I hope you get some good advice from the others.
You are not alone.
It sounds to me from his response, its not the time..., that this may become, if it isn't already, a full blown relapse.
I often wonder if any alcoholic is able to stay sober. There almost always seems to be a kind of up and down pattern. They almost always seem to go back.
I personally, couldn't take that inevitability anymore. It's why I feel so at peace with my decision to leave, whether he sobers up or not. I would always be waiting to find that empty bottle in my home.
I hope you get some good advice from the others.
You are not alone.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
For over 25 years now I have owned a business that services real estate companies, builders, bankers, and lawyers.
Not attacking anyone who works in this profession, but in my opinion, there is a certain level of social drinking that does occur in the industry. When a real estate agent sells a home, in our part of the country, it is customary to take the new home buyers out for dinner and drinks. Lending institutions sponsor meet and greet wine and cheese open house events weekly. Real Estate companies sponsor lots of events where alcohol is served.
I have never had a drinking problem, I can sip one glass of wine all night long. I can actually see how his new working enviroment could be challenging to his sobriety. I do not know what the "norm" is in Texas, just sharing my personal experience of working in his industry. I don't know, is this . "the fox in the hen house ? "
Wishing you all good things. Take care of you.
Not attacking anyone who works in this profession, but in my opinion, there is a certain level of social drinking that does occur in the industry. When a real estate agent sells a home, in our part of the country, it is customary to take the new home buyers out for dinner and drinks. Lending institutions sponsor meet and greet wine and cheese open house events weekly. Real Estate companies sponsor lots of events where alcohol is served.
I have never had a drinking problem, I can sip one glass of wine all night long. I can actually see how his new working enviroment could be challenging to his sobriety. I do not know what the "norm" is in Texas, just sharing my personal experience of working in his industry. I don't know, is this . "the fox in the hen house ? "
Wishing you all good things. Take care of you.
Journey To Me
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Kyle, Texas
Posts: 395
Thank you for the replies. It has helped me stay on the right thought process. It’s hard not to have anxiety issues when something slams you in the face out of nowhere, and you’re used to trying to pick up the pieces. I had to center myself.
Today I am at work and carrying on as usual. I received a text from him saying that he was sorry and that he loved me. (It’s nothing new to receive a text from the A after a screw up, I know.)
Anyhow, my response was, “Thank you for the apology, but it is not necessary. This is your journey not mine. The way I see it is that you have gained the tools that you need to live your life as you wish. I seen one hundred steps forward since then with one step backward last night. Now where do you go from here? Continue marching forward or wind up where you started from. That is entirely your responsibility and choice. You know where I stand, but your life is your choice. I love you too.”
I feel I have handled myself well. I didn’t let it consume me—not too much anyhow.
Today I am at work and carrying on as usual. I received a text from him saying that he was sorry and that he loved me. (It’s nothing new to receive a text from the A after a screw up, I know.)
Anyhow, my response was, “Thank you for the apology, but it is not necessary. This is your journey not mine. The way I see it is that you have gained the tools that you need to live your life as you wish. I seen one hundred steps forward since then with one step backward last night. Now where do you go from here? Continue marching forward or wind up where you started from. That is entirely your responsibility and choice. You know where I stand, but your life is your choice. I love you too.”
I feel I have handled myself well. I didn’t let it consume me—not too much anyhow.
Journey To Me
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Kyle, Texas
Posts: 395
Originally Posted by ady gil 
I am living a somewhat similar situation to yours and I can't tell you what is best for you but I can tell you the mistakes I made when my RAH relapsed...and in my case it was a full blown month long relapse. It was a living hell.
My RAH relapsed right at the 7 month mark (before that he had been in a 4 year drinking hell and before that he had YEARS of sobriety). The biggest mistakes I made were lagging a bit on my own recovery and not having a plan should he relapse. IMO, living with an RAH should have meant for me that I always had a personal savings and a plan to leave should there have been a full blown relapse. My boundary was not living with active alcoholism and when he did relapse I did not have the finances to follow through with that boundary. I also made the mistake of relaxing so to speak in my own recovery as he was recovering....in my experience it was "easy" to feel healthy with an RAH - my AH is one of those that snaps back fairly quickly without the alcohol, he did not continue a lot of character defects and did not continue the immature alcoholic actions (even though sober) like you hear in a lot of the posts here...so it was easy for me to start feeling healthy, go to less meetings and in my case put off getting a therapist that I had been planning to get since Jan 2011. I let my own recovery slide, not all the way but enough.
The downside of the above...when he relapsed I also started slipping down the relapse stairwell - anger, jaded thinking and barely on the edge of controlling my own life all describe me in December 2011 when his relapse was in full force. One of the parts of my relapse was writing off people..thinking that I could control my future and by staying away from the "wrong" people by looking at everyone and every thing for even the tiniest flaw...the truth is the best way to prepare for my future was to get back into my recovery and have the tools in my life to deal with my future instead of trying to control it. I can't control everything that is going to happen to me but I can have the tools to deal with whatever may come.
My RAH is now in rehab (full blown rehab, his first time), he also has a plan for recovery after. I have looked into all my options (divorce, separation, post marital agreement)...and I haven't decided everything but I have decided a couple things. First, I think one of the keys to recovery is at least a physical separation....this means he will not be doing any early recovery in the same living space as me while I work on my recovery. I wish we had done it that way the first time - I think it's very hard to stay on your side of the recovery street when the A is recovering under the same roof, at least in the early part. So once he is out of rehab we have agreed on a trial 6 month separation, a re-evaluation at 6 months and possibly a longer separation (I'm thinking a year at least). I have gotten a second job and will be building up a personal savings account - this account will be there in case we do ever live together again so I will always have options and will always be able to follow through on my boundary of "I will not live with active alcoholism". I will never let that boundary be violated again.
In finally got a therapist....this was key for me. Groups did not work well for me and alanon was helpful but I wasn't getting what I read others were getting here on the board. The therapist helps me one on one to work things through.
The key is no matter what happens with the RAH I will be strong in my recovery and have the tools I need for whatever happens....I won't let things slide this time. I get it when when people say they won't get involved with an RA for fear of the other shoe dropping...and I get that feeling...however, I also get that if I never have the tools to deal with the other shoe dropping in a relationship (whether it be alcohol, financial ruin, verbal abuse or some other big issue), any relationship I have will fail. If I'm broken no relationship I'm in can be happy...RA or non-RA.
So that's my experience with relapse....and a little more background...before that relapse, my RAH did have a period of long term recovery....meaning YEARS....so having those tools is key, the relapse can happen months later, or years and years later. I should have left the house the minute the first drink was taken. I have no idea what the future will hold but I'm working on filling up my toolbox to deal with whatever it may be.
Not sure if that was helpful but that's my experience so far with a relapse....I think if you have a plan and are strong in your recovery you will be able to handle whatever comes your way.
PS - sorry for the long response!!!!
My RAH relapsed right at the 7 month mark (before that he had been in a 4 year drinking hell and before that he had YEARS of sobriety). The biggest mistakes I made were lagging a bit on my own recovery and not having a plan should he relapse. IMO, living with an RAH should have meant for me that I always had a personal savings and a plan to leave should there have been a full blown relapse. My boundary was not living with active alcoholism and when he did relapse I did not have the finances to follow through with that boundary. I also made the mistake of relaxing so to speak in my own recovery as he was recovering....in my experience it was "easy" to feel healthy with an RAH - my AH is one of those that snaps back fairly quickly without the alcohol, he did not continue a lot of character defects and did not continue the immature alcoholic actions (even though sober) like you hear in a lot of the posts here...so it was easy for me to start feeling healthy, go to less meetings and in my case put off getting a therapist that I had been planning to get since Jan 2011. I let my own recovery slide, not all the way but enough.
The downside of the above...when he relapsed I also started slipping down the relapse stairwell - anger, jaded thinking and barely on the edge of controlling my own life all describe me in December 2011 when his relapse was in full force. One of the parts of my relapse was writing off people..thinking that I could control my future and by staying away from the "wrong" people by looking at everyone and every thing for even the tiniest flaw...the truth is the best way to prepare for my future was to get back into my recovery and have the tools in my life to deal with my future instead of trying to control it. I can't control everything that is going to happen to me but I can have the tools to deal with whatever may come.
My RAH is now in rehab (full blown rehab, his first time), he also has a plan for recovery after. I have looked into all my options (divorce, separation, post marital agreement)...and I haven't decided everything but I have decided a couple things. First, I think one of the keys to recovery is at least a physical separation....this means he will not be doing any early recovery in the same living space as me while I work on my recovery. I wish we had done it that way the first time - I think it's very hard to stay on your side of the recovery street when the A is recovering under the same roof, at least in the early part. So once he is out of rehab we have agreed on a trial 6 month separation, a re-evaluation at 6 months and possibly a longer separation (I'm thinking a year at least). I have gotten a second job and will be building up a personal savings account - this account will be there in case we do ever live together again so I will always have options and will always be able to follow through on my boundary of "I will not live with active alcoholism". I will never let that boundary be violated again.
In finally got a therapist....this was key for me. Groups did not work well for me and alanon was helpful but I wasn't getting what I read others were getting here on the board. The therapist helps me one on one to work things through.
The key is no matter what happens with the RAH I will be strong in my recovery and have the tools I need for whatever happens....I won't let things slide this time. I get it when when people say they won't get involved with an RA for fear of the other shoe dropping...and I get that feeling...however, I also get that if I never have the tools to deal with the other shoe dropping in a relationship (whether it be alcohol, financial ruin, verbal abuse or some other big issue), any relationship I have will fail. If I'm broken no relationship I'm in can be happy...RA or non-RA.
So that's my experience with relapse....and a little more background...before that relapse, my RAH did have a period of long term recovery....meaning YEARS....so having those tools is key, the relapse can happen months later, or years and years later. I should have left the house the minute the first drink was taken. I have no idea what the future will hold but I'm working on filling up my toolbox to deal with whatever it may be.
Not sure if that was helpful but that's my experience so far with a relapse....I think if you have a plan and are strong in your recovery you will be able to handle whatever comes your way.
PS - sorry for the long response!!!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 447
I think you did good!!
but you need to ask yourself...
where is my boundary... what am I getting from this relationship....if he does not continue sober/in a program can I/do I want to continue this relationship?
these are the decisions that will define the rest of your life...think carefully and read more of our stories here at SR before you answer....
but you need to ask yourself...
where is my boundary... what am I getting from this relationship....if he does not continue sober/in a program can I/do I want to continue this relationship?
these are the decisions that will define the rest of your life...think carefully and read more of our stories here at SR before you answer....
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Everything can be/is a trigger for an alcohlic. Triggers are just excuses. Naive is dead nuts on-- what's missing is he's not actively working AA and he's not going to enough meetings. What's enough meetings? For some it's a couple a week, for others it's a couple a day, and for others it's all day every day for a long time (thus the halls).
Everything else, everything, is just an excuse.
As to what you said? Well (my two cents only):
He said he drank almost a pint. I asked him if it was all gone (Not a question to ask). He said yes. I asked him what his plan is (OK question to ask because he initiated the conversation, not if he didn't)), and he said that now wasn't the time to iron out details for a plan. I said, "okay," and told him that I love him. I let him know that he is in charge of his own destiny, and if he wanted my opinion I know that he deserves better then the life that he once lived. I let him know that he needs to make his choices, This was just a lecture and is not a way to go. He already knows, it just feeds the mommy dynamic, and he ain't your child-- he's a grown ass man and a husband.
My two cents. Some may disagree. Take what you want and leave the rest.
Take care,
Cyranoak
P.s. If he needs a stress-free job, Sales of any kind is not the way to go. Especially Real Estate and Cars. They are very stressful sales jobs. Very stressful. And, like mentioned before, alcohol, cocaine, and marijuana are plentiful in those worlds-- restaurant work too. I know it for a fact.
Everything else, everything, is just an excuse.
As to what you said? Well (my two cents only):
He said he drank almost a pint. I asked him if it was all gone (Not a question to ask). He said yes. I asked him what his plan is (OK question to ask because he initiated the conversation, not if he didn't)), and he said that now wasn't the time to iron out details for a plan. I said, "okay," and told him that I love him. I let him know that he is in charge of his own destiny, and if he wanted my opinion I know that he deserves better then the life that he once lived. I let him know that he needs to make his choices, This was just a lecture and is not a way to go. He already knows, it just feeds the mommy dynamic, and he ain't your child-- he's a grown ass man and a husband.
My two cents. Some may disagree. Take what you want and leave the rest.
Take care,
Cyranoak
P.s. If he needs a stress-free job, Sales of any kind is not the way to go. Especially Real Estate and Cars. They are very stressful sales jobs. Very stressful. And, like mentioned before, alcohol, cocaine, and marijuana are plentiful in those worlds-- restaurant work too. I know it for a fact.
Journey To Me
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Kyle, Texas
Posts: 395
Thought Process Out Loud
If I truly look inside and be honest with myself, at the moment I think divorce is what I want. After everything I have been through, after so much pain and verbal abuse, I have lost my excitement for growing old with this man.
I see him as weak with little self control that will always have the ability to take the quick “fix” to life’s problems. At times the feelings I get are almost of disgust. He is a very respectful kind hearted intelligent man that will always go out of his way to help, but I see him in my mind’s eye at times as the helpless disgusting drunk that has no aspirations or will. It sickens me to think of.
Sometimes, however, I look at him and am truly happy to have him here. He makes me laugh, he helps with chores, and he strives to benefit us for the future. He truly is good hearted.
I move on each day hoping that my feelings will actually settle. I reach within to find my answers, but am still confused. I know relapse can happen anytime. Will I be prepared, and able to maintain my sanity? Do I want to live with that possibility?
My boundary is most definitely that I do not and will not live with an active alcoholic, but I have not properly secured that boundary to an action plan. My savings was stupidly invested into his new career. That needs to be fixed. Also, my heart sinks thinking about the possibility of losing my precious dog. In Texas, a dog is seen as property to where one of the parties would be awarded her as one of the marital possessions that were acquired. The thought of him getting those rights crushes the will of my exit. I know there are shared custody type agreements and such, but that to me is ridicules; it will keep us in contact.
So much soul searching…
I see him as weak with little self control that will always have the ability to take the quick “fix” to life’s problems. At times the feelings I get are almost of disgust. He is a very respectful kind hearted intelligent man that will always go out of his way to help, but I see him in my mind’s eye at times as the helpless disgusting drunk that has no aspirations or will. It sickens me to think of.
Sometimes, however, I look at him and am truly happy to have him here. He makes me laugh, he helps with chores, and he strives to benefit us for the future. He truly is good hearted.
I move on each day hoping that my feelings will actually settle. I reach within to find my answers, but am still confused. I know relapse can happen anytime. Will I be prepared, and able to maintain my sanity? Do I want to live with that possibility?
My boundary is most definitely that I do not and will not live with an active alcoholic, but I have not properly secured that boundary to an action plan. My savings was stupidly invested into his new career. That needs to be fixed. Also, my heart sinks thinking about the possibility of losing my precious dog. In Texas, a dog is seen as property to where one of the parties would be awarded her as one of the marital possessions that were acquired. The thought of him getting those rights crushes the will of my exit. I know there are shared custody type agreements and such, but that to me is ridicules; it will keep us in contact.
So much soul searching…
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
alcoholic translation:
AH: Sure enough when I got home he asked me to sit down, and he told me that he messed up.
translation: i've been drinking for weeks now in secret rather than selling houses. better tell her something, she's like a frickin detective these days. hmmm. i'll tell her i drank half a pint...she'll buy that...i'll pretend i'm sorry and upset....then, i can slowly ease back into drinking and everything will go back to normal.
alcoholic: He said he drank almost a pint.
translation: i relapse two weeks ago. i drink now.
alcoholic: I asked him if it was all gone. He said yes.
translation: what a stupid question. is the pint gone? hell yeah. and chased by 10 more.
alcoholic: I asked him what his plan is, and he said that now wasn't the time to iron out details for a plan.
translation: the plan? the plan is to return to drinking! oh? you mean the recovery plan? ha ha. i'm not going to those silly meetings. i can control my drinking. i don't have a problem. only you have a problem. i don't. hmm. need more money so that i can drink tomorow while she's at work...i'll tell her i need more money for my real estate business...hmmm...yeah, that'll work...let's see...i say i have to show a house thats 60 miles out of town and i need money for the gasoline....hmmm....or, i need a new suit, big sale on the horizon and need to look my best....that's the ticket.
AH: Sure enough when I got home he asked me to sit down, and he told me that he messed up.
translation: i've been drinking for weeks now in secret rather than selling houses. better tell her something, she's like a frickin detective these days. hmmm. i'll tell her i drank half a pint...she'll buy that...i'll pretend i'm sorry and upset....then, i can slowly ease back into drinking and everything will go back to normal.
alcoholic: He said he drank almost a pint.
translation: i relapse two weeks ago. i drink now.
alcoholic: I asked him if it was all gone. He said yes.
translation: what a stupid question. is the pint gone? hell yeah. and chased by 10 more.
alcoholic: I asked him what his plan is, and he said that now wasn't the time to iron out details for a plan.
translation: the plan? the plan is to return to drinking! oh? you mean the recovery plan? ha ha. i'm not going to those silly meetings. i can control my drinking. i don't have a problem. only you have a problem. i don't. hmm. need more money so that i can drink tomorow while she's at work...i'll tell her i need more money for my real estate business...hmmm...yeah, that'll work...let's see...i say i have to show a house thats 60 miles out of town and i need money for the gasoline....hmmm....or, i need a new suit, big sale on the horizon and need to look my best....that's the ticket.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Where do I go from here? Did I say the right things? Do you have any thoughts on this? One of my boundaries just got crossed, but did it really? I said I will not tolerate drunkenness around me anymore. I do not want to live with a drunk. Did he cross that boundary or does it depend on the next course of actions do you think?
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by MTSlideAddict
I could use another perspective on this one.
Right or Wrong?
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
My knee jerk instinct is that he is looking for you to believe he thinks he made a mistake, wants your sympathy and has no intention of seeking help or investing in recovery.
The statement he made about how this is not the time to talk about a plan is like a country size red flag.
I heard that time after time after time from my xAH when he would relapse, be caught in a lie, embarass himself or both of us with his drinking.... He would get all puppy dog like and say he knew he screwed up and he wanted my support and sympathy but didn't want to be held accountable for doing a damned thing differently.
I think you should decide (not now necessarily but at some point when you feel prepared) how much you want to tolerate and what YOUR plan is if things continue down the path they're on...
The statement he made about how this is not the time to talk about a plan is like a country size red flag.
I heard that time after time after time from my xAH when he would relapse, be caught in a lie, embarass himself or both of us with his drinking.... He would get all puppy dog like and say he knew he screwed up and he wanted my support and sympathy but didn't want to be held accountable for doing a damned thing differently.
I think you should decide (not now necessarily but at some point when you feel prepared) how much you want to tolerate and what YOUR plan is if things continue down the path they're on...
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