TheOnlyDryPaddy

Anything written in this post is purely for informational purposes and not meant to convey any positive emotion toward the subject on the part of the author

I have "good" news and bad news.

I had been sober for about 4.5 weeks until Monday of last week. My parents came into town to visit me, and I felt safe that I would overindulge when I was with them, so drank some wine before and at dinner and I continued to drink on non-consecutive days until Friday and Saturday. So I guess that's the bad news.

The "good" news is that I was able to drink in measured amounts: two glasses of wine on Monday; three glasses of wine on Wednesday; one glass of wine on Friday; and two Manhattans on Saturday. I say this is "good" news because I didn't get completely plastered, but I do realize that there is a general up ward trend in my consumption.

I have been thinking about the benefits of not drinking in general, regardless of the possibility of being an alcoholic. Consuming substance that lower your inhibitions is not good for someone who already has impulse control issues. Nevertheless, I may actually be a real alcoholic and therefore might lose my life if I don't stop. My question is: given that there are overall benefits to not consuming alcohol, can I be ambivalent about powerlessness and still work the steps? Will all the work that I do while I am ambivalent fall into place if I do admit powerlessness?

sugarbear1

I know that aa works when alcohol is no longer the solution.

Basically, if one can stop drinking & life is ok, then maybe the only problem, alcohol, has been eliminated.

If one stops drinking and life is unbearable, maybe alcoholism is the real problem (I am the problem, not alcohol), then I am willing to go to any length to stop from hurting.

I never understood any step until I continued to the next, and continued through.... Yes, a real person with alcoholism doesn't require full belief in a higher power. Not everyone in aa is a true alcoholic. Alcohol Was my solution until it didn't work and I was homicidal/suicidal without my alcohol as my solution/relief. This is (all of this is my opinion, not an argument) solution/relief. AA doesn't work for everyone, even though these people hang out in aa...creates situations of great debate. It's late, can't see keyboard & I hope this makes sense-enough.

Don't work the steps alone, they are deeper than written on the wall. Those are overviews.

sugarbear1

Maybe another program, other than the 12 steps, may be better for you. Have you read about them?

Boleo

Perhaps you are asking the wrong questions to start with;

1. What is your long-term goal? Do you just want to control your drinking long enough to get your life back in order? If so, perhaps managing your abstinence with psychological tricks&tips is your best bet. Trying SMART or RR may be easier for you in the short run.

2. Do you really want a life long goal? That is, are you ready to quit for good? Then perhaps you should look into a spiritual solution that will manage your sobriety for you? Like 12 step recovery.

3. In the back of your mind do you think you have to experience more YETS to determine if you are a "real alcoholic"? If so print out this list and decide ahead of time which ones you are willing to experience first hand before making a commitment;

I have not been fired YET
I have not gotten a DUI YET
I have not been hospitalized YET
I have not gone to prison YET
I have not lost my family YET
I have not been homeless YET
I have not been Institutionalized YET
I have not died from this disease YET

Mark75

One needs to be pretty willing and motivated to work the steps with rigorous honesty. It's hard to do that work and half measures "avail us nothing". If you are ambivalent about whether you are alcoholic, even, that ambivalence might be carried into the rest of the steps. The twelveth step will be pretty hard to do, maybe even dangerous, for the real alcoholic you may try to help. The whole point of the fellowship is to bring alcoholics to gather and to share the solution and to help other alcoholics get sober.

Whether or not you are alcoholic is for you to decide.... But huh, man, you are pretty obsessed with alcohol... Counting drinks and all.... I also hear a good bit of rationalization and justification...

That's OK, God knows I had a hard time with the first step myself... You are counting drinks, all that... You are among people like yourself.

Can you work the steps anyway? I have no idea... Maybe someone else has an answer.

Frustriert

Only you can decide.

Keep honest track if you have to. Really control it. Be honest when you truly slip and let it go crazy.

Is it worth all that work? I tried for a couple years. Repeatedly failed, got depresses, miserable about it...got in trouble. Ugh. My wife isn't an alcoholic and I don't see her obsessing over how much she drinks.

Do what you need to do!

ru12

If alcohol is messing up your life, stop drinking it. How you go about staying stopped, and being happy stopped, is a different issue.

It is my experience that moderation is harder than abstinance.

CarolD

I knew I was an alcoholic long before I was ready to actually quit
AA did not interest me nor did finding my way out of my mental obcession.
.
Perhaps that is where you are...I
Prayers for peace and clarity coming your way...you sure don't seem content with drinking.

BryanS

According to what I was taught in early recovery, the AA Steps ask for "progress rather than perfection" EXCEPT the 1st Step, which asks 100%, because any alcoholic who is ambivalent about their powerlessness over alcohol will drink again.
Based on that, I wonder who would truly be invested in the "solution" (Step 2) if they didn't fully recognize they have the "problem" (Step 1). And who in their right mind would be willing (Step 3) to do all the work involved to recover from their alcohol AND living problem (the rest of the Steps) if they thought they could drink again. I believe this is what the founders meant when they wrote "half measures availed us nothing".

Fenris

Like Bryan said, the First Step doesn't leave any room for ambivalence -- I resisted acceptance for twelve miserable years and when I finally surrendered, I was broken inside. The minute I started feeling better by working the steps, I attempted to take control again and it led me right back to where I'd been before. Now I have no illusions about my powerlessness or ability to manage my own life. If you are truly an alcoholic, I'd encourage you not to learn this lesson the hard way.

--Fenris.

keithj

Paddy,
Maybe consider taking the "what if" out of your question and look at the facts.
1) You made decision to stop drinking.
2) 4.5 weeks later you drank.

TheOnlyDryPaddy

I'm sorry. I didn't read my post before I posted.

I had been sober for 4.5 months (not weeks), not that the length of time actually matters.

PaperDolls

Personally, I tried doing the AA thing with just the steps I liked and I failed miserably. That's just me.

Music

It's been my experience that people who don't have an alcohol problem, don't generally talk to people about their alcohol problem. They don't care because it's not a problem. People who don't care about alcohol, don't measure their drinking because they don't have to. It's not a problem. People who have to "measure" or keep track of how much they drink, so as not to go overboard, are or tend to be by definition, powerless over alcohol. It's just my opinion mind you, based on myself and my experience that if I'm powerless over alcohol and alcohol causes problems, it's best that I don't drink. The worst thing that's happened to me since I stopped drinking is things got better, beyond what I would have ever expected. But, you have to make up your own mind. I'm not going to tell you you're an alcoholic but again, based on what I've read here, you probably shouldn't drink.

stugotz

When I have to ask if something is wrong, it usually is. So, Ill take Alcoholic for $200 Alex. Just sayin...

TheOnlyDryPaddy

Then you've probably never met a hypochondriac before, just sayin'...

DayTrader

What is it you want to hear Paddy.....that you're not an alkie? Fine, you're not a real alcoholic. Does that really mean anything?

You controlled your drinking a couple times. So what. So did I and I'm a chronic/hopeless alkie. Heck, my LAST drinks were 2 or 3 beers consumed over the course of a couple hours at a bar - absolutely normal controlled "social" drinking.

Outside of what you see on TV and hear in pop-culture.....real alcoholism has little to NOTHING with amounts, frequency or the ability to control that stuff on occasion.

I presume that doesn't matter to you any more than it mattered to me when I was in your shoes - continually hanging my hat on past successes and completely disregarding the glaring failures. As Keith suggested, you made the decision to not drink again.....and you drank again. Whether you're an alkie or not, a chronic alkie or not, whether you suffer from alcoholism or not........I can't say. What I can say is that your decision to drink proved to be lacking in power. ......but I'm sure the next time it'll be different, right?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, really I'm not. I've seen ppl like you over and over. Hell, I personally did the same sort of stuff......over and over. As sugarbear suggested, perhaps your problem lies deeper than "just not drinking" will reach. If it worked (just not drinking) then you never would have felt the overwhelming urge to pick back up.

Really, I'd highly recommend sobriety......it's FAR more than "not drinking" and the only real game in town........if you're an alcoholic.

TheOnlyDryPaddy

Look, I think that I am noy saying what I mean to say. I see no problem in not drinking, but I am wondering, given the way AA defines "alcoholic", if I should be working the Steps with a sponsor. I know what obsession and compulsion feel like and I just don't feel that way with respect to alcohol.

Tommyh

Paddy
I tryed controled drinking in July of 1988
2 beers first day
I went home and cut the grass
I thought I had a victory because I did not drink any more than 2 beers,but today I realize I failed miserable because alcohol was all I thought about as I cut my grass.
Next day,same store,2 more beers,I drank them,and went back to the store and got some more,3 days later I sobered up.

my point here is ,maybe you just drank a few and showed some control in the amount you drank,but what was really going on in your head during this time?
Thats the deal,the mental part of alcoholism.

I am sure there some 12 step groups of some kind who would like to help you thru the steps.I feel sure that somewhere,someone drinks normally who is living the 12 steps,but not in AA.

After all,our Big Book does indeed say
we are sure our way of life has it`s advantages for all
I just had to thump the book a minute...lol

notice it says all,it does not distinguish the difference between non drinkers,alcoholics,or social drinkers.
all includes everyone
so,if you can drink socially or normally,thats great!
and if you still want to go thru the steps,thats double great!!


that bondage of self inside of us all gets us to do a lot of different things,drugs,booze,sex,gambling,emotional unrest,etc

LawMama

I can't answer your question, but I can share my experience.

I don't think I fully accepted my powerlessness and that I am a real alcoholic when I first started working the steps, but I kept working the steps and didn't drink anyway. My full understanding of the first step came months into sobriety as my brain cleared and I became a little more honest with myself, honest enough to see myself for who I really was and my drinking for what it was. I was also able to realize that I am a REAL alcoholic because my mental obsession stuck around for quite a while and I realized that non-alcoholics don't obsess about wanting to drink "just a couple" after not having had a drink for a couple months. But before that, I worked the steps with a sponsor for a good few months while I still had lurking notions in the back of my head that maybe I wasn't a real alcoholic.

Good luck.