Ananda

god is everything or god is nothing...????

CarolD

Amanda....
I'm not sure what you are looking for
Is this what you mean?

"When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crisis
we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face
the proposition that either
God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is or He isn't."

~Alcoholics Anonymous, 1st. Edition, We Agnostics, pg. 53~

Ive always had faith that God is a powerful force
for good in my life. He gives me forgivness
and serenity. I see His works each day.

I've never been an Agnostic.
I'm probably not sharing what you are concerned about
but it's my experience......

DayTrader

YEP...

What's your choice to be?

- I choose "everything" with my head....but my actions, sometimes, indicate something altogether different. Thankfully, we don't have to get everything perfect (or I'd be tooooootally screwed) but it's up to me to try to shore up my "current agnosticism." God does this in the areas I'm not able to fix on my own but He doesn't do it in the areas I AM able to fix on my own.

He's everything..but that doesn't absolve me from all of my duties. I don't get to say "God keeps me sober," do nothing, and go on to have a wonderful life. I have to handle my end of the bargain. There ARE things I have need to do that contribute to my conscious contact with God. I have to work from my end to do what I can to cross that bridge of faith. I need to keep my side of the street clean (steps 4-9), I need to review my day and right any wrongs the next day, I need to pray, I need to meditate.......and I need to work with others and try my best to help them.

Pagekeeper

Ananda, your conception doesn't have to match Bill W's conception or the conception described in the big book.

AW2486

The BB wants us to make a choice of alcohol or God of your understanding.

I could see how you could easily throw up your hands and say uh uh .. no way. I would suggest having an open mind and do the steps. See what happens after that.

Ananda

i'm confused...thank you page talk to me soon please
carol.... you are right on track (hug) thank you you are an inspiration!

Daytrader...thank you, i'm tired of trying to "live up" to the bargin

aws...i honestly don't think you know where i'm at.

Day -one I'm not coming out every where...but this section is where i am geting something so selfishly i am posting here.

i don't wanna be killed with love, but i also have 25 years of trying to do this deal....

ok...i'll shut up and listen to what is said....I'm not looking for pitty, I'm also feeling that honesty is important...if i don't respond it isn't that i'm not listening, but that this is not all aobut me...I need to step back

Thank you those who care.

24hrsAday

IMHO We All Have To Find Our Own Understanding of Just What God is and What Exactly Does That Mean To Us.. i Really Liked Reading Came to Believe.. i Understand Searching and i Hear You..

AW2486

In my case, the real magic happened in the action steps. 4-9

Pagekeeper

It's an extremely personal journey and no one can give you the answers, Ananda, you must seek within.

I've said this over and over, but it's true for me: I don't know how God works. I don't know if God is everything or nothing. I don't even know if God is a "thing."

At some point, I just had to let go of my ego's desire to comprehend this power. I'll never comprehend it. I'm cool with that today. I just let it be. I let this mystery of God be a beautiful and transformative power in my life rather than an intellectual riddle I try to solve.

My experience with the steps is literal. My interpretation of the text is subjective. I think you're not seeing the difference between experience and interpretation.

Experience is what transforms my heart. Interpretation just ricochets between my ears. If you want God in your heart, stop shaking your head "no."

LexieCat

My experience is like Page's. I was hurting my head trying to deal with "God as I understand him/it". I don't relate to people who talk about God as a personal friend. I don't argue their experience--it simply isn't mine.

So what do I do with a God/higher power that I don't understand? For me, I simply accept my own lack of understanding.

The way I see it, the truth is what the truth is. I don't have to understand something for it to exist or to be true. My understanding is so incredibly limited that there are many, many things I do not understand, that are, nevertheless, true.

For me, turning my will and my life over to a higher power means trying to live in harmony with the world instead of fighting it. The truth is what the truth is.

If I were to disappear off the planet tomorrow, life would go on. That, to me, is my higher power--what I am no longer influencing, or, to be more accurate, what I'm no longer under the delusion that I'm influencing.

Ananda

ok...shouldn't post but...i don't know i just am...

god either can keep me sober or he can't...it isn't dependent on my particular frame of miond that day...he either can or he cant...if he is dependent upon my participation..he isn't everything..

Sorry, i understand there is a lack in me causing this problem..but i'm right dab in the middle of this...good either is or isn't...i'm not intelictualizing...i'm way past that...

ok I'll shut up now...sory...i'm not "blaming" god or anyone else for my lack...my lack is what it is...ah sht...i'm justifying forget it (hug) thanks for caring

RobbyRobot

Absolutely right on Nan. My Hp does not require me to fake myself out with a whole lot of whatever to have that winning smile or wonderful attitude 24/7. Sober living is a way of life, not a slogan or motto for getting sober.

My HP has (had) my back whether I'm (was) drunk, dry, or sober. It's really my choices that make the difference for me, not my HP waiting on me for the proper way forward. My HP don't wait for nothing. Its always go go go. LOL.

Spiritual living is the key to sobriety I'm all in agreement with but that does not mean I had zero spiritual experiences while I was drinking. Some of my finest moments of spiritual experience were when I was drunk and stoned and dying. Some. Not all and not (obviously) the best. Sober living is by far the best of the best for me. If not, sobriety would not work long for me, and my alcoholism would win the day.

I have come to an understanding of my HP (God) that allows me to be both my best and my worst and everything in between and I'm still loved and helped. I am never tossed aside, forgotten, or punished by my HP so for me it's never a question of what or what not is my God but who and what am I in relationship with God! Do I love God? Do I love others as I love myself? Am I sober because I'm just not drinking or am I sober because I live a sober spiritual life? And other things....

A God of our own understanding. For you Nan, that would mean exactly what you posted. Go with it. Just be ready to defend your growing understanding from your own misunderstandings of the very HP you have come to begin to understand. For me, I always have an open mind to my own critical thoughts and feelings. I do not ignore my own wonderings and searches for Truth. My understandings themselves are not written in stone; what is written in stone is simply this and this alone: A God of my own understanding.

My understandings change and grow and mature. Some are kept. Some are dropped forever. Some are not fully experienced enough for me to decide either way. I always begin at square one though: I'm a sober alcoholic first, last, and always. Its worked the same since day one so thats The Way for grateful sober me.

((Ananda))
Robby

yeahgr8

wow thats a good post RR...thats my experience too:-)

justanothrdrunk

No. Not in my mind anyway.

When I was an active drunk, I saw a great many things in black and white. As I got sober and worked the program I learned that there are many shades of grey with just about everything. The exception to that rule is my sobriety. Either I'm sober or I'm not. That's about the only black/white thing for me now.

IO Storm

I care ananda...

You have received excellent replies here. I've received inspiration from them too.

What I have is simple. God is everything.
God is my only defense against that first and deadly drink. In the past few years of sobriety...I've had more than a few 'shaky' moments. I do not have any other explanation for staying sober through those dark and practically faithless times and the fact that I'm still sober today except for evidence of God 'carrying' me through them.

My very best to you)))

keithj

It doesn't work that way in my experience. This power, God, is not dependent on my participation. But this power's effect in my life, is absolutely dependent on my relationship to this power.

I can't sit back and say, 'If God wanted me to be sober, then I'd be sober', and not do anything to open myself up to that grace.

It's right there in Step 4. Remove the things which had been blocking me from the sunlight of the spirit. Those things are plugging up the pipeline between me and God. The paradox is, I can't remove those things without God's help.

Daytrader pointed out the key line in that idea. 'What was our choice to be?' I get to make that choice of limiting God and doing things my way, or surrender and doing things God's way.

Is my choice God is everything? Then let's get busy letting God do for us what I can't do. Cuz I've lived a life of 'God isn't', and I didn't do very well. It brought me right to the brink of 'God is'.

RobertHugh

I always thought my God consciousness would be of the Bill W. variety-- a clarifying moment when my life would change in an instant, and I would know.

That never came.

The sense of a higher power in my life came quietly, but profoundly, while I was working the steps. From the moment I surrendered to that process, I was "rewarded" with some peace. I can't identify a moment or even a week, but I can tell you that it built in strength as I got through the work.

It was really like waking up from a very long sleep. One day I realized I'd changed-- not that day, but over the course of the previous few weeks. My wife saw it, my friends saw it.

All I can tell you is it felt...fatherly and purposeful. My father died after a vicious short battle with cancer last year this time, so it almost felt like I would feel around him...I'd been absent that feeling for some time, and suddenly it felt like it was there again. When I would pause and consider my higher power, it was no longer a clinical concept, I felt love and protection.

But I believe that feeling was not available to me until I commenced the work of cleaning up my past....

I don't need to put words to it. It's just there.

DayTrader

I don't necessarily look at it as "God keeps me sober or He doesn't" because that takes all responsibility off my shoulders. IMO, it IS my responsibility to keep in conscious contact with that power (God) and to do my best to be what He wants me to be: loving, considerate, forgiving, free of resentment, trusting, faithful, and so on. If God is everything and I'm going to take direction from Him, then I shouldn't likely be taking my own direction - and my direction usually contains a lot of justified resentment, bitterness, anger, fear, revenge......etc.

I don't think God's grace is contingent upon the action I take - He loves me no matter what. However, I have found my daily reprieve, my happiness, and my downright sanity at times IS highly contingent upon my willingness to live my life according to His plans. I have to be willing to smash any and all of my beliefs, I have to try my darnedest to be the best representation of God I can be here on earth and when I fail, I have to be humble enough to apologize and make things right.

I, we, have free will to ignore Him and His plans if we choose to. He doesn't interfere with us if we choose that "other" path (I wish He did sometimes). If I decide, instead, to stay on the spiritual path....I've got to do work on my end because, without that work, I wander off in another direction. I close my eyes, ignore Him, and go off to do my own thing....which usually hurts...then I come running back. He's not going to force me to stay in on His path....that's my responsibility.

He's everything....regardless of which path I'm on. The real question is, "Am I in a position to receive any of it or not?"

Ananda

you know guys I just don't know....I've been in the rooms 25 years now....not using that as an excuse...i'm just pretty confused at this point...what i know tonight it....i've called to go to treatemnt...no that isn't the answer...but it might give me enoujgh breathing space to find one.


i'm tired of this, my aa friends are tired of it and want me to suck up and get sober, my son is tired of it..wants an answer, my boss doesn't know this is the problem, but will tomarrow when i can't show up to work.

I'm done...I don't have any faith in anything, but i'm tired of trying...tired of dissapointing, tired

I pray to god to simply let it end....and the answer is no...

ok slam me...after tomarrow morning i don't think i'll hear you anyway...

i'm hoping for a last minite miricale, but know that is bs....thank you all for your help.

treatment will help or it wont

you all have done your job thank you.

Ananda

god i am so fcked