HoopNinja

not sure I will make it through this post.

Today, my best pal Murphy, attacked another dog at doggie daycare. I take him there 2 times a week because he is part border collie and it gives him the chance to get the exercise he needs. He has not had problems there and everyone there loves him.

Last week our neighbor from where we used to live came over and brought Murph's best friend Toro with her. . .and they were fine but then started fighting and Murph bit him and drew blood.

The week before my sister's dog (who is annoying) would not leave Murph alone so he bit him.

All 3 times he drew blood. The first 2 were things that could be explained. What happened today was completely unprovoked.

I called my vet I have been going to for close to 30 years and she drew the same conclusion I had--which hurts my heart so bad. He cannot live in our house anymore--not with 2 small chlidren.

He has been off since we moved-the house is different, there is more traffic--he has not adjusted and I am trying so hard. I love him so much and my heart hurts so bad.

The vet called the no kill shelter where I got Murph to explain what happened to see if they can rehome him where there are no other animals and no children. She said if they won't take him back he should be put to sleep before he hurts another animal or my kids. I know she would not say this unless it was true-she knows me too well and she they are the kindest people I have ever met. She said the combination of breeds is probably what is causing the behavior problems. I have worked with a behavioralist with him on several occasions because he is so pushy. He knows I am the alpha and he has never hurt the kids but jumps on them. He is part Border Collie so he tries to herd them sometimes and need to be backed off because he is also part Beagle and is very determined about herding them.

This is so hard. My last dog Louis, was also a brown dog and we had 12 wonderful years together. My cat Carl lived to be 19. I had her since she was a little thing. Louis I got from a shelter--he had been abused. I got Murph from a no kill shelter who rescued him from a kill shelter.

It took me a long time to get another dog because I missed Louis so much. I know not everyone is a critter person and may not understand this but I cannot stop crying. I feel like I have failed him and my heart is breaking. I am trying to hold it together because in the middle of all of this I have to worry about the a**hole trying to use this and say I am keeping the kids in the houes with a dangerous animal.

I guess I need a couple of things from you guys--prayers they can find a place to rehome Murph. He is such a good guy and deserves to live a long life in a place where he can live with all the things that come with his mixed breed.

I also, don't know what to tell the kids. Younger DS has always been indifferent to Murphy (if not annoyed because of the herding). Older DS--having Murph go will hurt his heart too. With all the crap their dad has been feeding both kids about how all I want to do is hurt people I need to word things carefully. I thought I would tell them that something is wrong with Murph and the vet is not sure what it is, but that she thinks he will have to be put to sleep. I want both kids to be able to say good-bye. Especially older DS. I talked to the therapist and she said she thought this was best.

So I am going to put Murph in my room so he can spend what time he has left in our house on my bed where he loves to sleep. He has given me so much love in the last 2 years at a time when I really needed it. He has been there to smile and make me laugh during the times when my kids hated me and would spit at me and tell me how much they hated me. He has been the kind soul who has helped me heal my own soul during this hideous divorce. I love him so much and I am so sad right now.

Please pray the shelter finds him a nice place where he can he be who he is.
Karen

suki44883

((((HUGS)))) I am so sorry. I can't even imagine how heartbreaking this is for you. As much as I agree that Murphy should not be around children, I also know how much our furry friends mean to us. They don't understand what is happening to them.

I will definitely pray that Murphy finds a loving forever home where he can run and have lots of fun and even possibly have it be close enough that you could visit with him from time to time.

posiesperson

Oh, I am so, so sorry...

I love animals too and can so appreciate what you're saying. Remember that whatever needs to happen you are doing it for the best and greatest good....that is the ultimate love, no matter the outcome.

Hugs and prayers,
posie

TakingCharge999

I did not get pet owners and "the fuss they made".... until I got my cats.

Pets are better than many humans I know.

HUGS and good hopes for Murphy and for you.

wicked

Wife2Kids,

I am sorry and praying hard for Murphy to find a good home. He is a good dog, just has different needs. Wow, a border collie/beagle mix. That would be tough.
The beagle is absolutely determined, and the collie wants to herd the group.
There must be a job for him somewhere. A friend of mine had a beagle. She would work for days, and I mean days to escape her kennel, then, find a way out of the house through a window or something. She was amazingly smart, but needed something to do.
I hope Murph can find a working farm, and chase away predators. Or, round them up to be taken away! LOL Sorry, I just got that picture in my head. Hunt and herd, what a combination if it could be channeled correctly!
I had a welsh terrier named murphy. He was very sweet, but dumb as a bag of rocks.

I hope you don't have to put him to sleep Wife. My dog (a miniature dachshund) has been here thru everything with my kids, and is always by my side when I am sad. She knows and wants to comfort me.

Prayers for a home for Murphy, and an easy transition during these troubled times.

Beth

hello-kitty

What difficult times for you and your kids. I'm sorry.

When I was about 12, and my brothers and sisters were between the ages of 4 and 11, we had to have our dog, Taffy, put to sleep because she attacked a neighbors dog, and then she killed a cat, and then she attacked another dog when it was walking by the house on a leash with it's owner - Taffy totally cleared the fence and bit the dog.

It was very sad. My mother explained the situation to each of us separately in age appropriate language. It went something like this:

Taffy was a rescue dog. We didn't know what happened to her before we got her. Now something bad was happening in her brain that was causing her to be aggressive and dangerous to other people and animals. She could end up killing someone or something so we have to put her down (another home was not an option for Taffy - she was too unpredictable). Then my mother told us that we would get another dog that was better adjusted to children and families - and that wasn't dangerous.

I loved Taffy with all my heart. But the way my mom explained it to us made it clear that there was no other way. We didn't hold it against her. And we all got over it pretty quickly. It was just part of growing up...

LucyA

I'd almost given up trying to rehome my brothers Rottie, I loved him to pieces but have 3 kids, a full time job and a tiny garden. It just wouldn't have been fair to the dog for me to keep him.
No one was willing to take him though and I didn't want him to go to just any rescue place and end up chained up guarding some pile of bricks or being a status symbol, he was a much loved pet (and a big baby)
In the end, someone came to me and asked to take him, a friend from long ago who'd moved back near my parents, they were animal mad when we were younger and there's no one I would have trusted him with more! She already had 2 girl rotties and was willing to take Casper, and they all live in the house with her and her husband!
I hope Murphy is as lucky as Casper was, and still is.

KerBearz

I will pray for you, the kids and Murph too! I'm sorry you have to go through all this, but you sound very strong. Take care!

dollydo

Awwh, so sorry. I have my Dad's cat a beautiful Hymalayan (sp),my Dad passed away in February, my friend took him, it didn't work out, now I have him, it is not working out. I have two dogs and another cat, this cat just can't be with other animals...he is just mean to them. He also hisses and spits at me, he is mad at the world!

I am trying to find him a good home, I am stressed about this entire situation. I don't want to take him to a shelter, but, I may have no choice.

I am an animal lover, so I really do understand. Lets hope that there is a good home in Murphys future!

RollTide

I will pray for your family and Murphy and I am crying with you.

HoopNinja

The rescue place where I got Murph has a rule that if you surrender an animal you get from them that you have to surrender it back to them. I called them and am waiting for an answer. My vet also called them.

wicked--thank you for your post (and visual--it made me laugh) and it kicked my brain into gear and I emailed Border Collie Rescue--Murphy is not a mean dog. I think he is going slightly wonky because since I am now flying solo in all ways I cannot walk him as much and he is stuck in the house all day while I am at work. He is a working dog and he needs a job (hmmm, sounds like someone else I know--difference is that Murphy, if given a job, will actually work).

I explained the circumstances to Border Collie rescue (and there is one in the city I live in) and asked if Murph might be a candidate and was it possible the behavior he is exhibiting is because he is going crazy sitting around all day. He is extremely intelligent. I guess if I was extremely intelligent and was forced to sit around all day doing nothing it might cause problems for me. I know they will respond and know they will be a better option than the rescue where I got Murph since they know about Border Collies. I read their webpage and became hopeful (and stopped crying and started thinking about what is good for him and his soul and not me and my soul).

It would be swell if he got a home and I could visit--but if not, I know he will be a happy guy if Border Collie Rescue places him.

Once again SR calms the spirit and provides guidance

wicked

Yes! Because once Murph gets there, they will know exactly how to handle him.
Oh, this is wonderful news for him. And, I do understand about doing what is right for him, I had to give a german shorthair up because she was going crazy in our small trailer with no hunting or running space. She was beautiful and smart, but had to be outdoors.
Her name was Faith. :ghug3

I love to watch shows on border collies and how they herd. Amazing how intense they are and immediately respond to commands. They are cool, but need their work.

Fantastic!

CatsPajamas

I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said.

Hugs and love and understanding from one dog mom to another.

Cats

isurvived

showing aggression towards other dogs doesn't necessarily mean your dog will show aggression towards people. Two totally different situations.

However, I do agree that your dogs needs a job. Border collies, and other herding breeds need purpose. They are high energy dogs that are happiest when they are busy.

I have 8 dogs! 3 of them are Australian sheperds (much like border collies in size and temperment) 1 Australian Blue Heeler (another working breed), 3 Jack Russell Terriers, and 1 Beagle. Once and a while we have a skirmish here amongst the pack - but it usually occurs if I don't maintain my "pack leader" role. None of my dogs (while aggressive towards the other dogs) have shown any aggression to people.

I have however taken in dogs that were aggressive to people, and quite sociable with other dogs!

Like you, my dogs have been my salvation during my divorce and have been great family members always. None of them liked my X.

I hope that you can find a good home for your dog if you have to part with him.

Lola1024

Sending you a big hug ! Parting with a pet can be so painful. Earlier this week we had to give away my mom's dog Stormy - with the cancer and dialysis my mom can no longer handle her - she is a doberman. She went to do good home but still hard for mom to lose her on top of everything else. I hope Murphy finds a good home - sounds like some good possibilities coming up. :ghug3

HoopNinja

Everybody--thank you so much. My brain went into overdrive this morning and I started to think of people I could reach out to. I had a DUH moment when I realized one of the investigators I used to work with was also a breeder and trainer and at some point trained narcotic detection and police protection dogs. I just got off the phone with her and feel 1000% better.

She agrees that right now, Murphy is not a good fit for our family and that yes wicked--he needs to be a working dog. She asked me a bunch of questions and said he sounded like he would be a good narcotic detection dog. She said police departments often use Border Collies for that and that they also use Beagles at airports to find produce people bring into the country. She is no longer doing this kind of work with dogs but said she would reach out and see what she could find out. She also gave me the names of a couple places who may be happy to take Murphy and train him and another who might have information on other places where Murphy could be placed. She said he is not a dog that should be euthanized (I agree).

Also--thanks i survivied--the information about dog aggression vs. people aggression turned me in other directions. My previous co-worker pointed out that Murphy is 2 years old-an age when dogs sort of re-assess their boundaries and that she is not surprised by the first 2 biting incidents because they happened on his turf in situations where he was provoked. She said the thing that happened at doggie daycare, while inappropriate behavior, is not something to get overly concerned about. But she again said, you have enough on your plate and you are right--he is way too much dog for you right now and don't feel bad about it. Let's work on finding him someplace. She said he also could be a good companion dog for someone who wants a dog with them 24/7--someone retired who wants a dog to go fishing with, for walks out in the woods--things like that. She said he has all the good "selling points"--he is housebroken, trained (sit, down, stay, wait--the basic but a very good start which someone else would not have to teach him). Also he is neutered, very healthy and young. She said all of those things make him a perfect companion dog for a retired person looking for a 24/7 pet.

So, I have been able to put feelers out in many directions in the last 24 hours. I know this sounds dumb, but when she said he would make a great addition to a police department as a narcotic detection dog--well I felt a sense of pride and thought--wouldn't that be great. Just a different kind of herding predators wicked!

So, I am much relieved today and know your prayers, thoughts and good wishes have led me in the right direction. I will be sad to lose my pal but my heart will swell with joy if one of the people I have reached out to or I find him a good place.

AND, my friend now breeds bix boxy labs who are just love muffins. She said that she and other breeders she knows often are looking for homes for older dogs they no longer show or who are not being bred anymore. She said when we were ready, she would find us a great dog.

I will keep you updated. I am just hoping the shelter I got him from will not insist he go back there if I find him somewhere else to go where he can work.

wicked

Oh my, wouldnt that be wonderful? If Murphy could be a detection dog? A hero!
No, you don't euthanize heroes, and he is so young, only two, and I think they have a fairly long life span.
Oh, I think I am getting a little teary eyed. Damn, this makes me happy.
He will make someone a fantastic dog, whether he is a companion or detection dog.
Herding out the evil doers! Oh wow.

Now you have a resource when you are ready for another dog. And, yes, a big ole lab could be the ticket. They are so laid back, love being part of the family.
Great news all around.

FormerDoormat

Keep in mind that vets are not professional behaviorists--they are vets. So I would take a vet's opinion about dog behavior with a grain of salt. Before you give away your beloved pooch, I would seek the help and advice of a professional canine behaviorist.

I agree with the previous poster who said that dog aggression is different than human aggression. Not saying he doesn't have both, just that more information is needed to determine if your beloved dog is a threat to your children.

Most likely, he is not and the best solution will be to change the way you handle him to keep his dog interactions to a minimum. There is a solution that could work for everyone involved. Your dog doesn't need to lose his home because your vet says so.

I have to wonder about any vet who would immediately recommend rehoming a dog before recommending that other alternatives can be pursued with much success.

Our faithful, voiceless friends cannot speak for themselves, so I am speaking for your dog.

Just change my name from FormerDoormat to DogAdvocate. Is your dog worth the extra effort to find an acceptable solution that can keep him in his current home? Absolutely!

Imagine the life of a dog. We humans expect them to fit into our human households--often forgetting that they are a different species and they think and behave differently than we do. It is all give on the dog's part and all take on the human's part. And when they fail to fit the impossible mold humans try to fit them into, they often pay with the loss of their home or, worse, the loss of their life.

If your dog is stressed out with the recent changes in the family, I'm surprised your vet didn't recommend Rescue Remedy, a natural supplement to alleviate his anxiety or even the canine version of Prozac. Even a dietary change to a lower-protein food (like a lamb-based food) can have a big impact on behavior. More exercise or brain stimulating activities are other options to help alleviate his stress.

My point is, like we've all learned here on SR, there are always other choices. Sending your best friend away should be the last choice--not the first.

HoopNinja

Dog Advocate--please do not lecture me. I have had dogs all my life and have never surrendered one of them. Surrendering Murphy is not something I would EVER take lightly and what you just wrote cut me to my soul. I love Murphy. He is part of our family. I have had an excellent behaviorist to see him on three occasions. I train using Patricia McConnell's model.

I hate to tell you this but the reason I would surrender Murphy is not because he is too much work but because he deserves better than what he is getting at our house. It would be swell if I could give him the 2 to 3 hours he needs every day--but I can't. To me, as much as it would rip my heart out, I would rather he go somewhere he can get all the attention he needs. You can lambast me as much as you want for saying that. You have NO idea what I have been doing to work with him--while trying to raise 2 kids with attachment disorder and PTSD while divorcing a lunatic.

NO ONE told me he was a Border Collie when I adopted him or I never would have adopted him. He was a mixed breed dog and they told me he was a Beagle. The behaviorist took one look at him and told me he was pretty much mostly Border Collie. Did I abandon him immediatly. No, I have been working with him for 2 years. But what is more humane for him--to leave him in a house all day long while I am at work or that he be someplace where he can do what he was bred to do. I just called the doggie daycare to see exactly what happened yesterday because I did not get the full story. She told me all the dogs were outside taking a break and Murph was about 5 feet away from the other dog and with no provocation lunged at him and grabbed him by his neck and face and shook him very hard. She said it was an attack. She also told me that she has never seen him snap at a single person or even growl at a person. She was very sad and said he is a very sweet dog. She also said that some times Border Collies do not do well in doggie daycare because they do see the rambunctious dogs as mis-behaving sheep. She is also a behaviorist. But she said she has seen him fixate on other dogs that are acting wild--she said she could see the border collie in him focusing on the bad sheep. She is not sure what happened with the dog yesterday.

I have a call in to the behaviorist again to have her come to our new house. I have not given up on him. If I surrender him it is because I love him--not because I am throwing him away and I think what you just said to me was the most hateful thing in the world. You don't know me. Don't you judge me.

HoopNinja

Also, just so you know. I have been searching daily for 2 months for a job closer to my new house so I can go home during my lunch hour to walk Murphy. Please do not make me seem to be some heartless monster. Sometimes, although a decision is painful, what is right needs to be done. Murphy is a Border Collie who needs 2 to 3 hours of HARD exercise every day. I can't give him that right now. Does that make me selfish?