TrainWreckAgain

Thought I would update folks on my ongoing saga...

I talked at length tonight with my AGF this evening. I had asked her if she loved me and if she wanted to build a life with me.

Her answers were that yes she loved me and that she wanted to build a life with me, but didn't see how she could do that and remain well.

I have no problem with either answer. But when I pressed her on the why she thought she couldn't stay well... and yes, it was a genuine question...

She is less than 90 days sober at this point and really has only about 5 weeks of treatment under her belt. Her logic went like this:

1. She had a great deal of resentment over how I had treated her. And, that I had decided to leave her a while ago.
2. I brought 3 kidss to the relationship and she brought 2. One of her 2 is a special needs child. She said that with that many children, with all of their needs, she could not effectively parent.... specifically the special needs child. She was doing this so she did not hurt my kids anymore... or her kids.

I asked her for her plan for what she was going to do.

She is going to

1. Find a 2 bedroom apartment in Orange County (where her treatment center is).
2. She is going to get her driver's license back (to do this, she needs to pay off approximately $7000 in fines / penalties / legal fees).
3. She is going to find a job.
4. She is going to furnish the apartment.
5. She is going to mover her to kids down to OC.
6. Her job is going to allow her get the kids to school and be home when they get home from school.
7. She will be able to focus her time on helping her special needs child get better.
8. In addition to her job and taking care of the kids by herself, she is going continue to see her therapist and go to meetings every day.

She is going to find the place to stay, get the job, get her license and furnish the apartment in the next 3 weeks while she is finishing her treatment.

She is living in a fantasy world. There was some glimpses of progress, in the she did admit that she had done some horrible things, but there was still a great deal of "you were very sick too" in her talk. She believes that she is the only hope for her special needs child. That if she can focus on him and not have worry about my 3 kids, he will be ok. And, "my daughter will be ok."

Her daughter views my girls as her sisters. She is totally bonded to them. And her son (special needs) is completely attached to me as his father. But she is doing this in the best interest of the kids.

There is no way in h*** that she is ready or capable of caring for those kids on her own. She has a super inflated view of the progress she has made (I am the golden child) and what she is capable of doing. She is still living in the ego centric world of addiction... and creating fantasy worlds in which she gets what she wants.

Job 1 for the morning is to figure out how I protect the kids.

Breathe..... trust God.... give it to Him.

naive

these are all things which will continue to unfold and develop. at least she has a plan and is communicating that she feels that her healthiness involves focusing more of her energy on her special needs child. if that what she feels is driving her despair and ultimately, her drinking, then it is good that she has identified this.

i agree that her plan sounds a bit far-fetched but i would imagine that she is still foggy. give it some time. it is good that you are going to join her in couple's meetings, then you will have an opportunity to voice your concerns.

i hear you when you voice your concerns for all of your family, including her children.

keep turning it over to your hp.

naive

beginner

Thank you for sharing your story. You didn't ask for advice, so you may have just felt the need to share it? Either way, I hope you don't mind my comments or suggestions.

I think it's great that she has a plan - whether it's realistic or not. So often alcoholics don't have a plan or come up with any solutions to their problems and don't take responsibility for their problems at all, but leave it to others to make their decisions and clear up their messes for them.

There is an element of blaming that goes with the alcoholic and it sounds like she is doing that with you. However, there is some truth in what she is saying. "Alcoholism is a family disease." Whether or not you agree that alcoholism is a disease, it certainly infects the whole family. That means that you have your "stuff" that you have contributed to this, and because I haven't heard your whole story and don't know you - that may not be news to you at all. When you talked about letting it go to God, it strikes me that Al-Anon may not be foreign to you? I certainly find it very helpful for working on my own baggage that I bring to the equation.

When you mentioned your doubt in her that she would be able to cope or to look after her children effectively without you, it really struck me that something that is common to us partners of alcoholics is that we need to be needed. Which is often why a relationship can sometimes get worse after the alcoholic is sober and in treatment or getting help. Because the non-alcoholic partner did get something out of the alcoholic being "sick". We got to feel needed, we got to feel good about ourselves in comparison to the alcoholic, we got to be a hero (rescuer or martyr). We believed that our alcoholic could not live without us. It was a mutual dependency on each other. Now, your alcoholic girlfriend would like to find her own way and not be dependent on someone else. I think that's brave.

By what you have written, it sounds like she is planning a life without you, and I'm sure that hurts after all you've been through. But if there is a possibility for reconciliation, you will need to do the work on your own recovery as much as she will. She will no doubt make mistakes with her parenting among other things, and may lapse/relapse, but as alcoholic partners we too need to realise that we are not free from "sickness" at all - so we are in no position to judge, or to say or even think "aha! I told you, you wouldn't make it - you couldn't do it on your own without me!"

Just some thoughts. I'm sorry they're challenging. I'm alongside you with all of this - working on all these issues myself.

Freedom1990

I went through a 30 day inpatient rehab. I landed a full-time job as a nurses aid a week after I was discharged. There I was, a single parent out in the real world and doing what people are supposed to do. I was starting over in a whole new location.

Did I make mistakes in my parenting? You bet. No one gives us a manual on parenting.

However I did the best that I could.

Pelican

Thanks for the update TWA.

I'll keep you and those children in positive thought today.

Keep in mind that her ideal plan, at this moment, may appear to be full of holes from your view. Her plan may change as she puts it into action. Her plan may succeed because of her new confidence and inner strength. Her plan may unravel and fall apart. Either way, it is her plan for her life.

She is trying to take responsibility for her life and her children. She may make mistakes and hopefully she will learn and grow from the experience.

She has a 3 week forcast to make all these changes while still in treatment. A lot can happen in 3 weeks. A lot can happen in 24 hours.

Will you be able to support her and allow her to make her own plans and learn her own lessons?

totfit

Whatever her plan may be, if she wants to do it without you, then it is her business and not yours. That's something you need to accept. Heard the one about the bird setting it free....... She needs to learn to make mistakes is sobriety. The last thing she needs is a caretaker.

Gypsy Feet

My (ex)s kids were one of the reason I worked so hard to "save" him. When I met him, the mother of his 2 children had divorced him. His response was to shut out the world and drink. He hadn't seen his children or even tried to in months.

So, I filed his half of the custody papers, cleaned his house and made it kid friendly. I made arrangements with his ex to pick the kids up every other weekend and on holidays. I filled all of our days with special outings and family fun.

The kids are 27 and 26 now, and have a tremendous fondness for their father, so no regrets.

When our marriage dissolved, he went right back into the drink and shut out mode. His kids have not contacted him, nor he them. I robbed all of them of the opportunity to learn communication skills, and they are all waiting for me to put it back together. All three, father and sons, are intelligent, warm, caring people. They will figure it out on their own eventually, as long as I stay out of it and let it happen.

My thoughts are, you can really only take care of yourself and your children at this point. If you find out her children are in danger or being abused, then and only then is it your responsibility to do something about it. Otherwise, its her turn to try and stand on her own 2 feet.

Startingover2

I think that her plan is a bit farfetched too but its hers to own. Let her do that. It probably stings a bit that she is doing all of this without you now after you have been with her thru all the crap.

You mentioned you had kids of your own. I imagine they have seen more than they should have seen with your gf. They have been thru alot as well and they are not even her children. I have children as well from my first marriage and there is alot of damage that was done to them because of axh. Why don't you take this time and put them first and heal them and let your gf do what she needs to do.

Also, she isn't that far into recovery. She still is on shakey ground and may relapse. Wouldn't it be better if she was more stable before she came back?

Easier said than done I know.

TrainWreckAgain

Thanks to all for your comments and advice. I am actually very much at peace with her desire to build a life without me. If she does not believe she can be healthy and continue to grow by being with me, then that is her choice and hers alone.

I recognize that alcoholism is a family disease. It has affected her, me and all of the children. And, I played my part of being codependent perfectly. I have much work to do myself and need to clean up my side of the street, so to speak.

I am committed to not being a caretaker. It is her plan, and she needs to do her best to make it work. As one of you said, she needs to be able to make mistakes in sobriety and to celebrate her sucesses.

I am actually impressed with the fact that she has a plan and is committed to her recovery and to being there for her children. It is clear that she has enormous guilt about her special needs son because she feels that she has failed him in the past. I understand why she feels that way.

Because of poor choices she made earlier in her life, her son did not live with her for long periods of time and ultimately was the victim of abuse. She got him back about 20 months ago. Part of what put her into a tailspin and triggered the drinking was her inability to cope with how much damage the abuse had done to him.

In addition to PTSD, her son suffers from an attachment disorder, which makes if very hard for him to attach in a healthy way to people, but especially adults. It is also likely that he has a brain injury that is a result of her taking drugs while she was pregnant. Please understand that I am not laying blame, just stating the medical facts.

It took him 14 months to get to the point where he felt safe around me and to really be attached to me in a meaningful way. As of today, he feels safe, loved and bonded to everyone in the family. And, he does not feel safe with his mother.

Early this summer, in the middle of all this, I had to move the family about a 1 mile down the road. This involved no change of schools, no change of friends, just a new physical home to live in. The whole idea of the move put her son into a tailspin. For about a week, he was physically ill from the stress and in tears off and on for about 2 weeks. At this point, he has found peace with the move, because, in his own words, "I am with my family." Her daughter is completely bonded with my children, refers to them her sisters. I overheard her the other day saying to one of them, "I am so glad I finally have a dad."

I recognize her need to heal and to take responsibility for her own life. Where I get stuck is on the well-being of the children. I have talked to the kids psychologist in depth about this, and her opinion is that taking him from the environment he is in today would be devestating to him.

I raised this question with her last night, and her response was, please give me credit, I have thought this through and talked to my therapist about it. I am certain that she talked to her therapist, but neither of them talked to his psychologist. All of the psychological specialists believe that he needs the equivalent of an intensive outpatient therapy program. She is dead set against this (which was a source of friction between us). She believes her love can fix him.

How do you balance their needs against hers? What if her need to heal herself harms the children? At this point she truly has no parenting skills. Just last night she said she found out that her daughter was communicating with someone on Facebook that she (xAGF) thought was unsafe. She asked me what she should do.

I understand that God can perform miracles.... and I am giving this over to Him... and asking for His guidance as to the next right thing to do.

TrainWreckAgain

As the world turns....

I talked with her again this morning and she said that she was not completely honest with me the night before. Bottom line for her is that she doesn't trust me and she doesn't believe that she can ever regain the trust. I asked her why, and it basically boils down to me having stood my ground on her treatment. She wanted to manage her own treatment... and I listened to what the professionals are thinking.

Even with all the progress she has made, she is still very much in an addict's way of thinking. She drank, smoked pot, used coke, slept with another man, and lied to me about things every day and I am not to be trusted... because I didn't believe she knew better.

So, today is the first day of the rest of my life. God has a plan... I just have to accept it.

beginner

It's certainly been a hard road for you, and it's clear that you have been a good "father" to her children while she's been going through all of this. No doubt you are attached to them and you love them, and they love you. However, if their mother has chosen to live apart from you, you really have no choice but to accept it. I know you are trying to protect them - especially this boy with special needs, but you need to step back from the role of 'Rescuer'. He will manage without you. You mentioned that you have a stronger bond with him than he does with his mother - and no doubt a lot of that was the result of the choices she made. But now she is trying to make different choices, and you need to let them all go so that they can work on their relationship as mother and son. You may disagree with her parenting choices, but she is the parent. It's good that she has a therapist and that her son has a psychologist. At least there are professionals involved that can guide her with this.

I really encourage you, as hard as it feels, to let this all go and allow her to make these choices and give her support and encouragement as she does.

TakingCharge999

TWA are you seeing an individual counselor or psychologist yourself?
((hugs))

naive

hi trainwreck-

it is typical behavior for an addict to project on you, what they are guilty of themselves.

it sounds like she is upset that you overruled her and gave her an ultimatum, rehab or out. so now, she's using the resources in rehab to get clear of you.

i agree with anvil. how much more do you want to invest in her? you have a choice to pull the plug and let her suffer the consequences of her selfishness/myopic view of things.

we can not control these situations. i understand yours is particularly difficult because of her children and their safety, but i would imagine that she will have follow up care or social workers who check on her and her kids in their new home?

TrainWreckAgain

I have given it to God and if when she leaves treatment she wants her kids, I will not fight it. She wants me to pay for her to set up an apartment, I won't. She is on her own.

She is clearly running addict behavior on me. She is sober, but she is showing signs of being a dry drunk.

I am done.

TrainWreckAgain

Just a quick note of thanks to all who have listened to me vent, offered their experience, support and hope, and in a caring way, offered advice based on their experience and wisdom.

This is a special group of people here.

beginner

You're welcome (if that encouragement includes me)! However, I still would encourage you to check your attitude. Sometimes we like to blame the alcoholic/addict completely - it lets us off the hook. And sometimes partners of alcoholics become more angry when an alcoholic gets treatment! I agree with your boundary of "no, I am not going to pay for your apartment" - however, it sounds to me that the alcoholic/addict in your life is at the beginning of her journey, trying to sort things out, and not necessarily getting everything right. I would not consider someone a "dry drunk" who is actively seeking treatment and working on their issues. It would be high expectations (too high in my opinion) on your part to expect her to be, at this stage, running her life in a perfectly healthy way.

I really do wish that you could be more encouraging and supportive of her - particularly in that she is in treatment and trying to make a new start for herself and take responsibility for her life. Although I empathise with how you might feel, I can see her point of why she may not be able to stay well living with someone who remains with the attitude of treating her like she is an addict without the ability to change, and no matter what she does she's just not going to be up to the task and desperately needs you to help her and fill in for her as a parent. So that you seem to be "the one that has it all together" and she's "the one that never will have it all together no matter what". Partners of alcoholics can play the blame-game as much as the alcoholic. When you have two people in a relationship blaming the other person instead of focusing on their own issues, you have a no-win situation. Perhaps what I am saying here is some of what your ex-gf is trying to say to you. I think it would be more helpful to focus on your part of the equation. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh/unsupportive, but I feel it would be unhelpful to suggest to you in this case that "oh yes - she's a terrible alcoholic, poor you!"

No doubt she has hurt you terribly, and you feel an enormous amount of anger and frustration as we all do in our own situations - but you need to deal with that yourself rather than turning it on her at this time where she is trying to work out her own recovery.

TrainWreckAgain

Beginner,

Thanks for the comments. I do love the fact that people here feel free to speak what is on their mind.

I read your post twice to try to evaluate my attitude and think about how I could be supportive and not be taken advantage of at the same time.

My comment about her being a dry drunk may be a bit harsh and reactive, but her comments and thought processes this morning were straight out of the addict playbook.

1. She was exclusively focused on blaming me. According to her it was "your actions that have made it impossible for me to even think about moving back in." When I asked her to explain, she went straight back on the attack, "You have treated me horribly in rehab;" and she literally said, "You always talk to the treatment team and listen to what they have to say. You NEVER listen to me. I know how to fix me better than they do. Why don't you believe me when you say I can figure this out on my own?" And the classic, "You haven't been there for me in the way I needed you to be."

I have been very supportive throughout. I have told her I am impressed with how hard she has been working and I can see that she is making progress. She has a very generous petty cash account so she can buy the things that she needs and has a fair amount of money left over for carry-out food, starbucks and the such. Any time she has asked for a specific item to sent from home, it has been sent. It really comes down to the fact that she is not getting her way.

2. She played attack the other person, "You are a cheater. You ***** around with other women all the time." Oh? You mean all those hours of the day and night when I am at work or at home taking care of 5 kids? (Didn't say it... but thought it). For the record, I know factually that she cheated on me once and have strong suspicions about 5-6 more times.

3. She claimed, "You don't believe what I say." When I pointed her pattern of lies and deceipt and asked if she thought that perhaps that might have to do with me not believing her, she didn't deny the past lies but said, "That is all in the past, I don't do that any more." This was 5 minutes after she told me she had lied to me the previous evening.

I know she is clean. She is tested 2 times a day. But the tought and logic patters are VERY similar to her thought patterns when she was actively using.

It is just broken thinking.

My concern with paying for her apartment is that I don't believe it is what the treatment team would recommend. The next logical step for her is that she would go to a sober living house. That is the generally accepted best next step. The research shows that 6-9 months is highly structured sober living environment is the best place to go.

She wants to go to a place where she can do whatever she wants. She can clearly do that, but to pay for her apartment, give her a car, and put $5000 in the bank seems like a recipe for disaster. If she wants to go out and use, I can't stop her, but I don't have to make it easy. Even with her tirade this morning, if she wanted to go to a sober living house, I would probably pay for it for a few months. She deserves a chance to get her life together, even if it is not with me.

prodigal

Trainwreck, I've been married to two addicts. I understand what you are explaining about her in your most recent post. The thing is, we are here to support you because YOU are posting. I know all I need to know about her.

She has done some pretty crummy things. She may make amends for them someday; then again, maybe she won't. Finger-pointing and explaining an addict to me gets kinda lost on me these days.

I see it as what addicts do. Her brain is mush. She's just on the brink of recovery.

So how about you get off of her side of the street. I know her story. I'm far more interested in what you are going to do, how you feel about you, and how you plan to proceed.

naive

hi trainwreck-

i'm with you on her dry drunk behavior. if someone were actually in recovery, they would not say "that's all in the past..." but take accountability. as you know, just because they are clean, doesn't mean they are in recovery. and from what you've described, she's not in recovery

my alcoholic never wanted to face what he had done. he wanted to sweep it under the carpet, or accuse me of similar. any rational, honest attempt at sorting things out was met with either "forget it, it's in the past" or a slew of false accusations about my behavior.

i personally disagree with beginner and feel that you shouldn't put up with this any longer. i do not feel that you should be more supportive of her; rather, i would define my boundaries, stick to them and let her deal with her own mess.

there is such a thing as common decency and gratefulness. you have paid for her rehab while taking care of her children and she, in turn, accuses you of infidelity.

enough is enough!

i certainly agree with you and wouldn't pay for her new apartment. that would be further enabling her.

time to switch the focus back to you and your recovery....any plans?

naive

benham

Great vent. I hope that was cathartic for you. If you need to vent further, go nuts. If not, then naive intelligently put it already: