What, exactly, is co-dependency???
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 40
What, exactly, is co-dependency???
I thought I was having a bit of a breakthrough in realizing I might be codependent upon my AH. I definitely have a need to feel needed by him and lately he needs his AA support group more than me. This has left me feeling very confused about what my role is going to be in his life now that he's trying to stay sober, which is why I thought I must be codependent.
However, as I try to research more about codependency online I find that most articles describe a codependent wife as being someone who covers up for her AH and tries to protect him from any consequences of his drinking. They also paint a picture of an abused woman, either verbally or physically, who keeps blaming herself for her AH's abuse towards her. If that the the actual definition of a codependent, then I guess I don't fit the bill. I have never had to cover up for my husband when he was drinking because he never displayed any embarrassing behavior, missed work, spent too much money, or did anything like that. Secondly, he has never abused me in any way. He's actually been a very loving, wonderful husband, even while he was drinking.
Also, most articles mention that a codependent person usually grew up with a codependent family member. I honestly do not think either my mother or father could be considered as codependents. If anything, they were TOO independent because that is ultimately what lead to their divorce when I was 18.
Anyway, I was just curious about your opinions on this subject. What is your definition and understanding of "codependency"?
Thanks!
However, as I try to research more about codependency online I find that most articles describe a codependent wife as being someone who covers up for her AH and tries to protect him from any consequences of his drinking. They also paint a picture of an abused woman, either verbally or physically, who keeps blaming herself for her AH's abuse towards her. If that the the actual definition of a codependent, then I guess I don't fit the bill. I have never had to cover up for my husband when he was drinking because he never displayed any embarrassing behavior, missed work, spent too much money, or did anything like that. Secondly, he has never abused me in any way. He's actually been a very loving, wonderful husband, even while he was drinking.
Also, most articles mention that a codependent person usually grew up with a codependent family member. I honestly do not think either my mother or father could be considered as codependents. If anything, they were TOO independent because that is ultimately what lead to their divorce when I was 18.
Anyway, I was just curious about your opinions on this subject. What is your definition and understanding of "codependency"?
Thanks!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I don't think there is an 'exact' definition. For me, it was simply a term I could use to put a label on the behaviors that were detrimental to my life and happiness.
As applied to me, codependence involves trying to control others, doing things for others that they can/should do for themselves in an effort to 'earn' love and affection, and generally being so wrapped up in someone elses life that I lost my own individual identity.
There were lots of other behaviors, but those are the biggies.
L
As applied to me, codependence involves trying to control others, doing things for others that they can/should do for themselves in an effort to 'earn' love and affection, and generally being so wrapped up in someone elses life that I lost my own individual identity.
There were lots of other behaviors, but those are the biggies.
L
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
from LTD: As applied to me, codependence involves trying to control others, doing things for others that they can/should do for themselves in an effort to 'earn' love and affection, and generally being so wrapped up in someone elses life that I lost my own individual identity.
Ditto for me.
Thinking I could control other's feelings, outcomes to situations, that by Helping or cleaning up after people I could change them, not respecting other people's right to be exactly what they are, right now, today, and thinking I knew what they needed to "get better."
And being really attached to these beliefs & focused on other people's problems ..to the point where it was detrimental to my choices and my mental health.
peace,
b
Ditto for me.
Thinking I could control other's feelings, outcomes to situations, that by Helping or cleaning up after people I could change them, not respecting other people's right to be exactly what they are, right now, today, and thinking I knew what they needed to "get better."
And being really attached to these beliefs & focused on other people's problems ..to the point where it was detrimental to my choices and my mental health.
peace,
b
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: in France
Posts: 393
Hi Kitty
I've been asking myself exactly the same question "what is a codependent" so I'm glad you've started this thread and I will be watching it closely.
I'd never even heard of the term before i came to SR
Is anyone married to an alcoholic thereby a codie?
Does this mean I need to tell my hubby (married to an alchoholic) that he needs help to change too?
I've been asking myself exactly the same question "what is a codependent" so I'm glad you've started this thread and I will be watching it closely.
I'd never even heard of the term before i came to SR
Is anyone married to an alcoholic thereby a codie?
Does this mean I need to tell my hubby (married to an alchoholic) that he needs help to change too?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Here are a few definitions although I believe LTD summed it up nicely
For me, I think it is a group of coping mechanisms I learned to deal with various forms of "abandonment" first from my parents, then in romantic relationships, that ultimately caused me harm.
For me, I think it is a group of coping mechanisms I learned to deal with various forms of "abandonment" first from my parents, then in romantic relationships, that ultimately caused me harm.
Originally Posted by grateful2b 
There are many definitions , but this one captures it for me..
A codependent person is one who has let another's person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior.
- Melody Beattie from Codependent No More
A codependent person is one who has let another's person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior.
- Melody Beattie from Codependent No More
For a long time, alcohol addiction was considered a problem that affects only the alcoholic. The alcoholic was perceived as a bad person without ambition that can be cured only if separated from their family and with the help of other alcoholics.
Nowadays, alcohol addiction is considered a family problem (with a major impact on the entire family, not only on the alcoholic) where each member of the family plays a significant role in the disease onset and evolution.
A person in need and an enabler find each other because they fulfill each other's needs. The enabler needs to protect and care for those in need, while the sick person needs to be protected and cared for.
The family members of an alcoholic are called codependents. However, this term also includes all the people around an alcoholic (not only the family members) such as the alcoholic's friends, co-workers, and neighbors. A codependent or enabler is any person around the alcoholic that becomes their ally and a double participant to the disease.
Codependency was used for the first time in alcohol addiction treatment journals at the beginning of the 70's. Initially, the term referred to the wives of the alcoholics, and only recently was used to define a dysfunctional style to relate with others.
Initially, codependency symptoms were considered a reaction to a stressful life next to an alcoholic, and the excessive fear, shame, and pain experienced by the family were considered a response to the alcoholic's behaviour.
However, researchers have noticed that the codependent behavior continued to be present among family members even when the alcoholic becomes sober.
Alcohol addiction specialists have realised that the codependent behavior is a distinctive disease that affects the family, and the hidden causes of this dysfunctional behavior aggravates the drinking habit of the alcoholic.
Today, alcohol addiction counselor use the codependency term to help family members understand the reactions and the behaviors they develop living with an alcoholic.
An enabler can be described as a special, polite, and altruist person, concerned with others' well being, and willing to help and care for others. Their desire and efforts to care for those in need are triggered by good intentions, but usually become compulsive and harmful to themselves and others. The enabler can be trapped into an vicious circle of insatisfactions. In most cases, the enablers take the role of a martyr and tries to rescue those in need.
Due to the repeated attempts of an enabler to save those in need, those that receive the care develop a destructive behavior (they become dependent on their enabler rescue actions). An enabler grows to enjoy their rescuer role, and the more they help the more they feel satisfied.
The codependent behavior is caused by the enabler's attempts to control the feelings, thoughts and actions of other people.
An enabler often feels that they are the center of their family universe and they feel responsible for others' happiness or unhappiness. An enabler organizes their life trying to receive validation from those around them. Often, enablers cannot break away from a dysfunctional relationship.
Examples of co-dependent behavior:
» They takes over the alcoholic's responsibilities.
» They justify the alcoholic's behavior to their family, relatives, friends, co-workers, or superiors.
» They take over difficult activities that should be done by the alcoholic.
» They take control over the alcoholic's life by stopping them from participating to different social events (where the alcoholic can drink), by tracing chores that mean to keep the alcoholic away from the alcohol source, by digging after hidden bottles of alcohol and throwing them away, and by demonstrating with serious arguments the alcoholic's lies.
» They are not sincere with the alcoholic, other persons, or themselves about the reality they live in and the feelings they have.
» They try to be perfect in everything they do, think, and believe, because they need to feel appreciated and admired.
The codependent behaviour has its own progressive evolution influenced by the addiction's evolution.
The first phase of the codependent behavior is a protective attitude triggered by the occasionally drinking of their alcoholic partner. The codependent tries to excuse their partner's behavior using a vast amount of plausible reasons.
When the partner's drinking become abusive, the codependent needs to find a responsible person for this situations. Unfortunately, in this situation the enabler becomes the target of all the reproaches, accusations, and blame which make them feel responsible for their partner's drinking problem. The codependent starts to doubt their quality as a human being, spouse, or parent. When the situation puts to much strain on their self-esteem, they will struggle to prove to others and themselves that are perfect by trying to make everybody happy, taking over lot of responsibilities, and solving difficult situations. The codependent is motivated by the believe that only being perfect in everything they do, they will determine their partner to stop drinking.
Unfortunately, their efforts are not followed by the desired reaction, and instead, their partner starts drinking even more. This leads to a new type of codependent behaviour: the controller. This is a normal reaction triggered by the need to keep a chaotic situation under control, to reduce the tension, and to restore a secure environment. The codependent controls every aspect of the alcoholic's life and tries to organize their life in order to keep them away from purchasing alcohol.
In time, the codependent's self-esteem decreases and they enter a new phase: the accuser. The codependent perceives their alcoholic partner as the only cause of their problems, and projects towards them deep feelings of anger, rage, and fear.
Progressively, the codependent completely loses their self-esteem and they isolate from society (this is a protection mechanism). They perceive themselves as victims, feel sorry for themselves, and lose the desire to help and care for others. They break away from their families, friends, relatives, and they isolate themselves in a world full of grief.
The progressive evolution of the codependent behaviour ends in the last phase, the enabler. The desperate attempts of the codependent to manipulate and control their partner's life actually reinforce their dysfunctional behaviors and prevent them from facing the consequences of being an alcoholic.
Codependents need help to recover from their disfunctional lifestyle in order to re-establish a normal couple and family life, especially when the alcoholic is treated for their addiction.
The codependent's recovery is possible only when the codependent is facing and accepting the pain caused by the past and present, and by adopting a new, healthier lifestyle. However, the recovery takes times because the codependent behaviour (itself) had developed in time. Sometimes, recovery spans over the entire life. Codependents can receive professional help from specialists with expertise in this type of problems to identify those factors that triggered the codependent behaviour, and to implement effective coping strategies that prevent future relapses in the old habits.
Nowadays, alcohol addiction is considered a family problem (with a major impact on the entire family, not only on the alcoholic) where each member of the family plays a significant role in the disease onset and evolution.
A person in need and an enabler find each other because they fulfill each other's needs. The enabler needs to protect and care for those in need, while the sick person needs to be protected and cared for.
The family members of an alcoholic are called codependents. However, this term also includes all the people around an alcoholic (not only the family members) such as the alcoholic's friends, co-workers, and neighbors. A codependent or enabler is any person around the alcoholic that becomes their ally and a double participant to the disease.
Codependency was used for the first time in alcohol addiction treatment journals at the beginning of the 70's. Initially, the term referred to the wives of the alcoholics, and only recently was used to define a dysfunctional style to relate with others.
Initially, codependency symptoms were considered a reaction to a stressful life next to an alcoholic, and the excessive fear, shame, and pain experienced by the family were considered a response to the alcoholic's behaviour.
However, researchers have noticed that the codependent behavior continued to be present among family members even when the alcoholic becomes sober.
Alcohol addiction specialists have realised that the codependent behavior is a distinctive disease that affects the family, and the hidden causes of this dysfunctional behavior aggravates the drinking habit of the alcoholic.
Today, alcohol addiction counselor use the codependency term to help family members understand the reactions and the behaviors they develop living with an alcoholic.
An enabler can be described as a special, polite, and altruist person, concerned with others' well being, and willing to help and care for others. Their desire and efforts to care for those in need are triggered by good intentions, but usually become compulsive and harmful to themselves and others. The enabler can be trapped into an vicious circle of insatisfactions. In most cases, the enablers take the role of a martyr and tries to rescue those in need.
Due to the repeated attempts of an enabler to save those in need, those that receive the care develop a destructive behavior (they become dependent on their enabler rescue actions). An enabler grows to enjoy their rescuer role, and the more they help the more they feel satisfied.
The codependent behavior is caused by the enabler's attempts to control the feelings, thoughts and actions of other people.
An enabler often feels that they are the center of their family universe and they feel responsible for others' happiness or unhappiness. An enabler organizes their life trying to receive validation from those around them. Often, enablers cannot break away from a dysfunctional relationship.
Examples of co-dependent behavior:
» They takes over the alcoholic's responsibilities.
» They justify the alcoholic's behavior to their family, relatives, friends, co-workers, or superiors.
» They take over difficult activities that should be done by the alcoholic.
» They take control over the alcoholic's life by stopping them from participating to different social events (where the alcoholic can drink), by tracing chores that mean to keep the alcoholic away from the alcohol source, by digging after hidden bottles of alcohol and throwing them away, and by demonstrating with serious arguments the alcoholic's lies.
» They are not sincere with the alcoholic, other persons, or themselves about the reality they live in and the feelings they have.
» They try to be perfect in everything they do, think, and believe, because they need to feel appreciated and admired.
The codependent behaviour has its own progressive evolution influenced by the addiction's evolution.
The first phase of the codependent behavior is a protective attitude triggered by the occasionally drinking of their alcoholic partner. The codependent tries to excuse their partner's behavior using a vast amount of plausible reasons.
When the partner's drinking become abusive, the codependent needs to find a responsible person for this situations. Unfortunately, in this situation the enabler becomes the target of all the reproaches, accusations, and blame which make them feel responsible for their partner's drinking problem. The codependent starts to doubt their quality as a human being, spouse, or parent. When the situation puts to much strain on their self-esteem, they will struggle to prove to others and themselves that are perfect by trying to make everybody happy, taking over lot of responsibilities, and solving difficult situations. The codependent is motivated by the believe that only being perfect in everything they do, they will determine their partner to stop drinking.
Unfortunately, their efforts are not followed by the desired reaction, and instead, their partner starts drinking even more. This leads to a new type of codependent behaviour: the controller. This is a normal reaction triggered by the need to keep a chaotic situation under control, to reduce the tension, and to restore a secure environment. The codependent controls every aspect of the alcoholic's life and tries to organize their life in order to keep them away from purchasing alcohol.
In time, the codependent's self-esteem decreases and they enter a new phase: the accuser. The codependent perceives their alcoholic partner as the only cause of their problems, and projects towards them deep feelings of anger, rage, and fear.
Progressively, the codependent completely loses their self-esteem and they isolate from society (this is a protection mechanism). They perceive themselves as victims, feel sorry for themselves, and lose the desire to help and care for others. They break away from their families, friends, relatives, and they isolate themselves in a world full of grief.
The progressive evolution of the codependent behaviour ends in the last phase, the enabler. The desperate attempts of the codependent to manipulate and control their partner's life actually reinforce their dysfunctional behaviors and prevent them from facing the consequences of being an alcoholic.
Codependents need help to recover from their disfunctional lifestyle in order to re-establish a normal couple and family life, especially when the alcoholic is treated for their addiction.
The codependent's recovery is possible only when the codependent is facing and accepting the pain caused by the past and present, and by adopting a new, healthier lifestyle. However, the recovery takes times because the codependent behaviour (itself) had developed in time. Sometimes, recovery spans over the entire life. Codependents can receive professional help from specialists with expertise in this type of problems to identify those factors that triggered the codependent behaviour, and to implement effective coping strategies that prevent future relapses in the old habits.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
In my mind, a "codependent" is
1) someone who depends on his/her relationships / interactions with others to basically "give" him/her a "self" and a "life;"
2) someone who judges his/her own worth primarily or totally -- and at the expense of taking care of him/herself -- on the basis of what he/she does for others and/or how desperately he/she feels needed by others (and, who, therefore, in likely to find him-serself drawn to or seeking out "others" who are very needy and who need to be "fixed" or "saved" in some way);
3) someone who is most "comfortable" relating to others by mothering, manipulating, managing, and/or martyring;
4) someone who actually derives a certain perverse, masochistic pleasure from self-righteousness and martyring;
5) someone who feels (sub-consciously and irrationally) like his/her own safety depends on his/her keeping the people around him/herself happy and satisfied.
If none of that gets the point across, here's a joke that should do the trick:
A codependent is someone who, on her deathbed, sees someone else's life flashing before her eyes!
freya
P.S. I think it's very important to realize that even someone who does not naturally tend towards codependency will often find him/herself beginning to behave in codependent ways if she is in close association/contact with alcoholics/addicts over an extended period of time. That is one of the major ways that the disease of alcoholism/addiction effects people other than the actual addict/alcoholic.
1) someone who depends on his/her relationships / interactions with others to basically "give" him/her a "self" and a "life;"
2) someone who judges his/her own worth primarily or totally -- and at the expense of taking care of him/herself -- on the basis of what he/she does for others and/or how desperately he/she feels needed by others (and, who, therefore, in likely to find him-serself drawn to or seeking out "others" who are very needy and who need to be "fixed" or "saved" in some way);
3) someone who is most "comfortable" relating to others by mothering, manipulating, managing, and/or martyring;
4) someone who actually derives a certain perverse, masochistic pleasure from self-righteousness and martyring;
5) someone who feels (sub-consciously and irrationally) like his/her own safety depends on his/her keeping the people around him/herself happy and satisfied.
If none of that gets the point across, here's a joke that should do the trick:
A codependent is someone who, on her deathbed, sees someone else's life flashing before her eyes!
freya
P.S. I think it's very important to realize that even someone who does not naturally tend towards codependency will often find him/herself beginning to behave in codependent ways if she is in close association/contact with alcoholics/addicts over an extended period of time. That is one of the major ways that the disease of alcoholism/addiction effects people other than the actual addict/alcoholic.
mergirl
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 4,161
Originally Posted by freya
In my mind, a "codependent" is
1) someone who depends on his/her relationships / interactions with others to basically "give" him/her a "self" and a "life;"
2) someone who judges his/her own worth primarily or totally -- and at the expense of taking care of him/herself -- on the basis of what he/she does for others and/or how desperately he/she feels needed by others (and, who, therefore, in likely to find him-serself drawn to or seeking out "others" who are very needy and who need to be "fixed" or "saved" in some way);
3) someone who is most "comfortable" relating to others by mothering, manipulating, managing, and/or martyring;
4) someone who actually derives a certain perverse, masochistic pleasure from self-righteousness and martyring;
5) someone who feels (sub-consciously and irrationally) like his/her own safety depends on his/her keeping the people around him/herself happy and satisfied.
If none of that gets the point across, here's a joke that should do the trick:
A codependent is someone who, on her deathbed, sees someone else's life flashing before her eyes!
freya
P.S. I think it's very important to realize that even someone who does not naturally tend towards codependency will often find him/herself beginning to behave in codependent ways if she is in close association/contact with alcoholics/addicts over an extended period of time. That is one of the major ways that the disease of alcoholism/addiction effects people other than the actual addict/alcoholic.
1) someone who depends on his/her relationships / interactions with others to basically "give" him/her a "self" and a "life;"
2) someone who judges his/her own worth primarily or totally -- and at the expense of taking care of him/herself -- on the basis of what he/she does for others and/or how desperately he/she feels needed by others (and, who, therefore, in likely to find him-serself drawn to or seeking out "others" who are very needy and who need to be "fixed" or "saved" in some way);
3) someone who is most "comfortable" relating to others by mothering, manipulating, managing, and/or martyring;
4) someone who actually derives a certain perverse, masochistic pleasure from self-righteousness and martyring;
5) someone who feels (sub-consciously and irrationally) like his/her own safety depends on his/her keeping the people around him/herself happy and satisfied.
If none of that gets the point across, here's a joke that should do the trick:
A codependent is someone who, on her deathbed, sees someone else's life flashing before her eyes!
freya
P.S. I think it's very important to realize that even someone who does not naturally tend towards codependency will often find him/herself beginning to behave in codependent ways if she is in close association/contact with alcoholics/addicts over an extended period of time. That is one of the major ways that the disease of alcoholism/addiction effects people other than the actual addict/alcoholic.
When the last chick left the nest, I was decimated. I went into a severe depression and had no idea what to do with myself.
Now the "work" that I do, from readings here on these forums and the book "codependent no more", only focuses on me. All of the work is basically about letting other people live and be in charge of their own lives, and believing that my life is worth living because I am wonderful. Just typing that made me cry haha, it was such a foreign concept.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Whew, this is good stuff, you guys. I was definitely starting to fall into this role with my ex before we broke things off.
I felt a sense of security whenever I could do something for him. In a couple of really bad binge incidences, I "saved" him from getting arrested, and when he kicked his foot through a plate glass window, I cleaned and dressed the wound.
We have a big age difference, too, so I was also lapsing into the role of "mothering" him, even in respect to situations not related to his alcoholism.
Now that I've gotten to the point of accepting his disease, and not being angry with him about it, I need to look at my own issues.
I felt a sense of security whenever I could do something for him. In a couple of really bad binge incidences, I "saved" him from getting arrested, and when he kicked his foot through a plate glass window, I cleaned and dressed the wound.
We have a big age difference, too, so I was also lapsing into the role of "mothering" him, even in respect to situations not related to his alcoholism.
Now that I've gotten to the point of accepting his disease, and not being angry with him about it, I need to look at my own issues.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1
I am a recovering codependent to XXaddiction. It is what I write about on my blog. My favorite definition of codependency is derived from MB's The New Codependency. "Many codependent behaviors--such as worrying or controlling--are what ordinary people do from time to time. But we get into trouble when these become behaviors we can't stop. Codependency is normal behavior, plus. There are times we do too much, care too much, feel too little, or overly engage."
My personal favorite definition is, codependency is when caring becomes the Hulk.
My personal favorite definition is, codependency is when caring becomes the Hulk.
Last edited by GiveLove; 07-07-2009 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Removed link - against rules
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
There was something I read in one of the posts about when we have abandonment fears how we tend to control other people. That hit home for me. And also how we get so caught up in other peoples lives we forget about us. Me all the way.
Ngaire
Ngaire
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
