What exactly is codependency?

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Old 06-28-2009, 08:26 AM
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What exactly is codependency?

Hi everyone.

I'm curious to know what codependency is as it relates to family. In particular my son. I want to ask anyone who knows it well or has been affected by it in any way. What are your experiences and history? What do you believe caused it and when did the first signs of it become obvious? In what form were they obvious? I just want a smattering of different people's experience with this as I educate myself about what exactly codependency is all about.

I don't intend to direct the thread in any way other than for educational reasons.

Thanks.
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:00 AM
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Hello there KenL, and welcome to this part of SR

Originally Posted by KenL View Post
... what exactly codependency is all about. ....
That's akin to asking what exactly alcoholism is all about. It's uniquely different for each person. You can start by saying that codependency is an addiction to the addict, but after that each story is going to be different.


Originally Posted by KenL View Post
... I'm curious to know what codependency is as it relates to family. In particular my son.....
If you would tell us a little about your son, and your relationship towards him, we'd have a better idea as to how to answer your questions. Is he alive? How old is your son? Is he an addict? Does he live with your or far? Is he in recovery? These details will help narrow the discussion, otherwise it will become a hugely general conversation about vastly disparate opinions that won't be of much use to anyone needing _specific_ information.

In the meantime, you can browse thru the "sticky posts" at the top of this forum. There's a wealth of information there. Also read thru the posts made by parents of addicts, there's a lot of wisdom and experience there.

Welcome again

Mike
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:06 AM
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There are many definitions , but this one captures it for me..

A codependent person is one who has let another's person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior.

- Melody Beattie from Codependent No More

Ken , as I look back on my life, I see now that I have been codependent for all of my life...My mother was a codependent...some of my siblings are codependent...

It wasn't until my daughter was getting lost in addiction, that it came screaming to the surface, as I tried, in my obsession, to fix and control her and her addiction. I found SR, hit my bottom, and began to learn how to detach with love..

This is the extremely condensed version
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by grateful2b View Post
There are many definitions , but this one captures it for me..

A codependent person is one who has let another's person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior.

- Melody Beattie from Codependent No More
What a great definition.
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by KenL View Post
Hi everyone.

I'm curious to know what codependency is as it relates to family. In particular my son. I want to ask anyone who knows it well or has been affected by it in any way. What are your experiences and history? What do you believe caused it and when did the first signs of it become obvious? In what form were they obvious? I just want a smattering of different people's experience with this as I educate myself about what exactly codependency is all about.

I don't intend to direct the thread in any way other than for educational reasons.

Thanks.

Codependency was my mum, defending, lying for and about my brother and paying his overdue bills at the expense of the rest of her family, and making a life from it.
Every conversation with my mum used to rvolve around my brother, what he was doing, what she thought he was doing, where he'd been, what she was going to do for him next, what she wanted him to do etc.
She seemed to forget she had a husband, sister, daughter and grandchildren, and a self.
She did everything she possibly could for and/or because of my brother.
I was worried sick about her and had to detach from her for a while, as well as my brother to keep my own sanity. Nothing I could have said would have motivated her anywhere near as much as my brothers illness did. Unfortunately she chose not to educate herself about alcoholism and it's effects, she chose to learn the liars way that was my brothers. If he told her something it must be true.

I had two of her grandchildren, and now I have all 3 of them, it hurt that she could overlook us all and lie to us for so long, even the children knew she was lying to protect her son. As a family we're ok now, I've learned to let things go, but codependancy almost completely wrecked our family. And to be brutally honest, I think if my brother hadn't died it would be just the two of them now, my mum and her son.

Maybe that's a mothers love, and maybe she'd do the same for me. I wouldn't want her to though, she almost killed herself for my brother, I'd like her to stick around with me and the rest of us as long and happily as she can.

That's my experience of codependency.
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:32 AM
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Hi DesertEyes.

Thanks for your willingness to help. I do appreciate it a lot. What I'm really after is an answer to the question, Is my son codependent? In light of that I can tell you some of what I have seen in his behavior. A little history first to put it all into perspective...

I have 5 kids. My son is the middle child with two girls on either side of him. He is 13. He does not use any illegal drug and does not drink alcohol as far as I know. I say that because he is with me only half the time. I don't know what goes on at his mom's house. He is taking three different meds for various psychological reasons. His parents divorce (me and his mom) and subsequent ongoing relationship his mom has with another woman has been pretty tough on him. So for nearly half the time he is in a house with 7 females. (I have a granddaughter as well.) He is involved in sports and has friends. He mainly stays in touch with them via text messages. I do spend time with him. We work in the yard together and play catch among other things. I attend almost all of his games. I take him and his sisters to church regularly when I have them. It seems that just about the only thing he does well by himself is homework, play Wii, read and sleep. So that's his life in a nutshell from my perspective.

Now as far as relationships. When the kids are with me I only have the 3 youngest. Ben, Bethany and Sarah. Ben definately controls the way things go when they are all together. He directs what game they play on the Wii. He is the one who tells the others to try this or try that in regards to the game's options. There are times when he does let the girls choose but it seems rare. The over-riding thing I'm getting at here is that he is controlling the situation, moreso than not. His nemesis is Bethany (10). I don't know why. He has been targeting her for years with insults and jabs. He has expressed to me much anger he has toward her. But still, with all that hostility, he wants to play with her and her with him. His relationship with Sarah (9) seems fine as he definately shows favor for her over Bethany. Indeed, I think he uses Sarah to overtly show Bethany that she is nothing to him. This occurring primarily when he is upset with Bethany for something. However, just today Sarah and Ben had an exchange that ended unpleasantly. The details need not be mentioned.

I know from what I've been told that his relationships with his older two sisters are not what anyone would call healthy. There is much disrespect. The relationships with his mom and her partner are not healthy either. They have lavished many gifts upon him whereas the girls have not had so much as him. They do not seem to affirm his need for acceptance and understanding beyond all the things they have bought for him. He regularly berates his mom and her partner when he is with me. Rarely do I hear a positive word about them from him. But still he desires to rely on them for whatever reason.

He has had counseling. His grades are pretty good. He usually does what I ask of him and he is not hugely disprespectful towards me. At least not when he's with me. When he is disrespectful I would say that it isn't extreme or ongoing.

I guess the thing that has me thinking of this codependency is his wantoness to be with people rather than do anything by himself. I have to tell him to go do something by himself rather than rely on others to keep him occupied. He will, but only for a short time. He just can't seem to do anything without relying on someone else to do it with him. I have provided him with many hobbies to keep him occupied but he seems to have no interest in them. I don't know if that's because he fears being alone doing those things or if he is genuinely not interested in them. But moreover, it's his wantoness to spend time with the people he shows such disdain toward.

His latest thing is hedging on passive-aggressiveness. He will make a snide remark or an outright insult about me or Beth or Sarah and then immediately after he says it he says "just kidding." Today I talked to him about it and he says he understands. Yet, just now, as I type this to you I have have heard him tell Sarah she is ugly followed up by a "just kidding" comment. I asked him to think about going back to his counselor if he feels he needs to do that.

So with all of this now to digest. I would like to know your thoughts as well as anyone else's thoughts.

Ken
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by grateful2b View Post
There are many definitions , but this one captures it for me..

A codependent person is one who has let another's person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior.

- Melody Beattie from Codependent No More

Ken , as I look back on my life, I see now that I have been codependent for all of my life...My mother was a codependent...some of my siblings are codependent...

It wasn't until my daughter was getting lost in addiction, that it came screaming to the surface, as I tried, in my obsession, to fix and control her and her addiction. I found SR, hit my bottom, and began to learn how to detach with love..

This is the extremely condensed version
I should add that I hit my bottom when my pain had become unbearable, and when I had, had enough of banging my head against the wall, trying to control someone and something I really had no power over, at my expense....I realized that I had become sick and crazy, driven by my fear, and all the while I had forgotten about me , because I was so focused on the illusion that it was my job to save this person.
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by grateful2b View Post
A codependent person is one who has let another's person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior.
Thank you grateful2b,

I see that Ben is trying to control situations. I also see that he manipulates others. Through this manipulation he alters their moods and subsequently their behaviors. In other words, a usually happy and complacent Bethany will turn into a mad, sad and resentful Bethany. It makes her say and do things that she would not do had not Ben infused some penetrating remark about Bethany that she finds hurtful. Quite common a reaction for any of us when we are hurt by someone else's negativity. He is doing it intentionally. He pushes it to the limit....to the point where I have to separate him and the girls.
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:45 AM
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Based on what I'm reading from LucyA and grateful2b, codependency is a sort of "taking care of someone to the ends of the Earth" kind of thing. I don't see that with Ben.
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:51 AM
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I cannot say whether he is codependent or not......I think maybe having a conversation with his counsellor or consulting with some other professional might be a good idea..
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Old 06-28-2009, 03:37 PM
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Hello there Ken

Originally Posted by KenL View Post
... My son is the middle child with two girls on either side of him. He is 13. .... He is taking three different meds for various psychological reasons. His parents divorce (me and his mom) and subsequent ongoing relationship his mom has with another woman has been pretty tough on him.... His latest thing is hedging on passive-aggressiveness. He will make a snide remark or an outright insult about ...
Since your son is 13 years old, and you have described a classic "blended family", I am going to venture that your son does _not_ have codependencey. What it sounds like to me is generally called "issues". Basically, a whole lot of emotions, mixed in with puberty, that he does not know how to handle.

Originally Posted by KenL View Post
... I asked him to think about going back to his counselor if he feels he needs to do that.....
Because he is 13, and because he is making his sisters miserable, I would suggest that counseling for the _entire_ family is mandatory. Including as many of the adults as you can manage. Since your son is taking 3 different meds I assume there is already a psychiatrist following him. That would be the professional with which to start.

Originally Posted by KenL View Post
... So with all of this now to digest. I would like to know your thoughts ....
My pleasure, Ken, that is what SR is for. I expect you'll get some more opinions here over the next few days.

Mike
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Old 06-28-2009, 03:43 PM
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I have 3 kids, 2 of my own and my nephew. My nephew has 'issues', as does my own youngest ( he's suddenly found himself to be he middle child where he was once the youngest) They're kids, they're supposed to have problems, difficulties and push their boundaries, I hope over analysis never becomes one of their problems.
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Old 06-28-2009, 04:09 PM
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Hi, welcome to the site

I just read Desert-eyes assessment and agree entirely, he posted while I was typing, I would also suggest counseling for everyone concerned and would talk to your son's psychiatrist.

Something I found helpful was the book I linked below this paragraph, I absolutely recognize some of the dynamics you spoke of in that book, don't let the corny title fool you, the book is all business, I would suggest getting a copy, what you find there may well surprise you, it deals in many instances with children it's possible some of the answers you are looking for are there, or at least will point you in the direction of a solution.

Change Your Brain, Change Your Life, Daniel G. Amen, Book - Barnes & Noble

Originally Posted by KenL View Post
Ben definately controls the way things go when they are all together. He directs what game they play on the Wii. He is the one who tells the others to try this or try that in regards to the game's options. There are times when he does let the girls choose but it seems rare. The over-riding thing I'm getting at here is that he is controlling the situation, moreso than not. His nemesis is Bethany (10). I don't know why. He has been targeting her for years with insults and jabs. He has expressed to me much anger he has toward her. But still, with all that hostility, he wants to play with her and her with him.
I would suggest reading many of the day to day threads here and see if it relates ie "mirrors" the relationship Ben has with Bethany. Codependency does have "caretaking" in it but it also has much more, it occurs frequently in people who live in a situation they feel is "out of control" it manifests in many ways trying to regain control of the situation. the way it relates to me ie the definition I came up with for myself is it's a coping skill to handle abandonment of some sort. Because alcoholism is abandonment in a very real way I believe it was "diagnosed" there first.

The situation you have described with Ben and Bethany absolutely is being replayed out here in this forum in many marriages that include an alcoholic spouse. Frighteningly so actually. So these may be his coping mechanisms to his home life with split households, divorce etc.

Originally Posted by KenL View Post
I know from what I've been told that his relationships with his older two sisters are not what anyone would call healthy. There is much disrespect. The relationships with his mom and her partner are not healthy either. They have lavished many gifts upon him whereas the girls have not had so much as him. They do not seem to affirm his need for acceptance and understanding beyond all the things they have bought for him. He regularly berates his mom and her partner when he is with me. Rarely do I hear a positive word about them from him. But still he desires to rely on them for whatever reason.
This could be another "manifestation" of his "feeling abandoned"

He relies on them because he is a child.

Originally Posted by KenL View Post
His latest thing is hedging on passive-aggressiveness. He will make a snide remark or an outright insult about me or Beth or Sarah and then immediately after he says it he says "just kidding." Today I talked to him about it and he says he understands. Yet, just now, as I type this to you I have have heard him tell Sarah she is ugly followed up by a "just kidding" comment. I asked him to think about going back to his counselor if he feels he needs to do that

Ken
I would refer to the book, for me when I engaged in that snide barb type behavior it took a loving and patient man a few years of patiently pointing it out to me for me to stop that behavior. (he was my sponsor) Every time I said something like that he would point the hurtful aspect of it, he didn't "berate" me for it but he was absolutely inflexible in bringing it to my attention and pointing out how hurtful the things I said under the guise of humor was.

My parents divorced when I was young and I believe many of the "codependent traits" that became harmful to me in later life stemmed from that divorce. because, to me, remember, in my opinion "codependency" is a reaction to abandonment not "drinking" per se, I will highlight what I found pertinent regarding Ben below

Here was a description of various codependent behaviors I found enlightening:

For a long time, alcohol addiction was considered a problem that affects only the alcoholic. The alcoholic was perceived as a bad person without ambition that can be cured only if separated from their family and with the help of other alcoholics.

Nowadays, alcohol addiction is considered a family problem (with a major impact on the entire family, not only on the alcoholic) where each member of the family plays a significant role in the disease onset and evolution.

A person in need and an enabler find each other because they fulfill each other's needs. The enabler needs to protect and care for those in need, while the sick person needs to be protected and cared for.
The family members of an alcoholic are called codependents. However, this term also includes all the people around an alcoholic (not only the family members) such as the alcoholic's friends, co-workers, and neighbors. A codependent or enabler is any person around the alcoholic that becomes their ally and a double participant to the disease.

Codependency was used for the first time in alcohol addiction treatment journals at the beginning of the 70's. Initially, the term referred to the wives of the alcoholics, and only recently was used to define a dysfunctional style to relate with others.

Initially, codependency symptoms were considered a reaction to a stressful life next to an alcoholic, and the excessive fear, shame, and pain experienced by the family were considered a response to the alcoholic's behaviour.

However, researchers have noticed that the codependent behavior continued to be present among family members even when the alcoholic becomes sober.


Alcohol addiction specialists have realised that the codependent behavior is a distinctive disease that affects the family, and the hidden causes of this dysfunctional behavior aggravates the drinking habit of the alcoholic.

Today, alcohol addiction counselor use the codependency term to help family members understand the reactions and the behaviors they develop living with an alcoholic.

An enabler can be described as a special, polite, and altruist person, concerned with others' well being, and willing to help and care for others. Their desire and efforts to care for those in need are triggered by good intentions, but usually become compulsive and harmful to themselves and others. The enabler can be trapped into an vicious circle of insatisfactions. In most cases, the enablers take the role of a martyr and tries to rescue those in need.

Due to the repeated attempts of an enabler to save those in need, those that receive the care develop a destructive behavior (they become dependent on their enabler rescue actions). An enabler grows to enjoy their rescuer role, and the more they help the more they feel satisfied.

The codependent behavior is caused by the enabler's attempts to control the feelings, thoughts and actions of other people.

An enabler often feels that they are the center of their family universe and they feel responsible for others' happiness or unhappiness. An enabler organizes their life trying to receive validation from those around them. Often, enablers cannot break away from a dysfunctional relationship.

Examples of co-dependent behavior:

» They takes over the alcoholic's responsibilities.
» They justify the alcoholic's behavior to their family, relatives, friends, co-workers, or superiors.
» They take over difficult activities that should be done by the alcoholic.
» They take control over the alcoholic's life by stopping them from participating to different social events (where the alcoholic can drink), by tracing chores that mean to keep the alcoholic away from the alcohol source, by digging after hidden bottles of alcohol and throwing them away, and by demonstrating with serious arguments the alcoholic's lies.
» They are not sincere with the alcoholic, other persons, or themselves about the reality they live in and the feelings they have.
» They try to be perfect in everything they do, think, and believe, because they need to feel appreciated and admired.

The codependent behaviour has its own progressive evolution influenced by the addiction's evolution.

The first phase of the codependent behavior is a protective attitude triggered by the occasionally drinking of their alcoholic partner. The codependent tries to excuse their partner's behavior using a vast amount of plausible reasons.

When the partner's drinking become abusive, the codependent needs to find a responsible person for this situations. Unfortunately, in this situation the enabler becomes the target of all the reproaches, accusations, and blame which make them feel responsible for their partner's drinking problem. The codependent starts to doubt their quality as a human being, spouse, or parent. When the situation puts to much strain on their self-esteem, they will struggle to prove to others and themselves that are perfect by trying to make everybody happy, taking over lot of responsibilities, and solving difficult situations. The codependent is motivated by the believe that only being perfect in everything they do, they will determine their partner to stop drinking.

Unfortunately, their efforts are not followed by the desired reaction, and instead, their partner starts drinking even more. This leads to a new type of codependent behaviour: the controller. This is a normal reaction triggered by the need to keep a chaotic situation under control, to reduce the tension, and to restore a secure environment. The codependent controls every aspect of the alcoholic's life and tries to organize their life in order to keep them away from purchasing alcohol.

In time, the codependent's self-esteem decreases and they enter a new phase: the accuser. The codependent perceives their alcoholic partner as the only cause of their problems, and projects towards them deep feelings of anger, rage, and fear.

Progressively, the codependent completely loses their self-esteem and they isolate from society (this is a protection mechanism). They perceive themselves as victims, feel sorry for themselves, and lose the desire to help and care for others. They break away from their families, friends, relatives, and they isolate themselves in a world full of grief.


The progressive evolution of the codependent behaviour ends in the last phase, the enabler. The desperate attempts of the codependent to manipulate and control their partner's life actually reinforce their dysfunctional behaviors and prevent them from facing the consequences of being an alcoholic.

Codependents need help to recover from their disfunctional lifestyle in order to re-establish a normal couple and family life, especially when the alcoholic is treated for their addiction.

The codependent's recovery is possible only when the codependent is facing and accepting the pain caused by the past and present, and by adopting a new, healthier lifestyle. However, the recovery takes times because the codependent behaviour (itself) had developed in time. Sometimes, recovery spans over the entire life. Codependents can receive professional help from specialists with expertise in this type of problems to identify those factors that triggered the codependent behaviour, and to implement effective coping strategies that prevent future relapses in the old habits.
There are great strides being made now in "recovery" and many things that were initially identified in studying alcoholism have been found to occur in many stressful situations, such as divorce, separation, etc. here was a "model" from 1981


One model that is helpful in identifying child behaviors is that of Sharon Wegscheider (1981). In this model children adopt various coping and enabling roles.



Little caretaker



The little caretaker role is often a carbon copy of the partner of the alcoholic. They take care of the alcoholic; getting drinks, cleaning up after the alcoholic and soothing over stressful situations and events. They are validated by approval for taking responsibility for the alcoholic and their Behaviour. This little person often goes on to become a partner of an alcoholic or other dysfunctional person if they do not get treatment.



Family hero



The family hero role brings pride to the family by being successful at school or work. At home, the hero assumes the responsibilities that the enabling parent abdicates. By being overly involved in work or school, they can avoid dealing with the real problem at home and patterns of workaholism can develop. Although portraying the image of self-confidence and success, the hero may feel inadequate and experience the same stress-related symptoms as the enabler.



Scapegoat



The scapegoat role diverts attention away from the chemically dependent person’s behavior by acting out their anger. Because other family members sublimate their anger, the scapegoat has no role model for healthy expression of this normal feeling. They become at high risk for self-destructive behaviors and may be hospitalized with a variety of traumatic injuries. Although all the children are genetically vulnerable to alcoholism, this child is often considered the highest risk because of their association with risk-taking activities and peers. Although tough and defiant, the scapegoat is also in pain.



Lost child



The lost child role withdraws from family and social activities to escape the problem. Family members feel that they do not need to worry about them because they are quiet and appear content. They leave the family without departing physically by being involved with television, video games, or reading. These children do not bring attention to themselves, but also do not learn to interact with peers. Many clinicians have noted that bulimia is common in chemically dependent families and feel this child is prone to satisfy their pain through eating.



Family clown



The family clown role brings comic relief to the family. Often the youngest child, they try to get attention by being cute or funny. With family reinforcement, their behavior continues to be immature and they may have difficulty learning in school.
I have found many of these "stereotypes" or "models" come to pass in different stressful situations such as businesses, families, even sports teams etc, in my experience they aren't always linked to alcoholism but the reaction is similar.

Sorry to inundate you with information, much of which may actually not be relevant, possibly you can glean a few helpful tidbits from my glut of information, but you seem a kind and loving father who deserves all of the help he can get, I only wish my own father had been as diligent so consider me at your service, feel free to PM me and I will happily answer any questions in my ability.
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Old 06-28-2009, 08:48 PM
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Thanks to everyone. Please allow me some time to cogitate on what is here as it is late in the evening and it appears that there is much to read and reflect upon. I will reply as soon as is possible.
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:08 PM
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I just wanted to say thank you to Ago for posting this:

Unfortunately, in this situation the enabler becomes the target of all the reproaches, accusations, and blame which make them feel responsible for their partner's drinking problem. The codependent starts to doubt their quality as a human being, spouse, or parent. When the situation puts to much strain on their self-esteem, they will struggle to prove to others and themselves that are perfect by trying to make everybody happy, taking over lot of responsibilities, and solving difficult situations. The codependent is motivated by the believe that only being perfect in everything they do, they will determine their partner to stop drinking.
I got a LOT of that. I got a LOT of he thought he should drink because I was a miserable person. (No, he couldn't fathom that I was miserable because his drinking went zero to sixty over the course of time, and it kept speeding up, and it didn't seem to be stopping!!)

Guess you could call that a wake up call. In the context of your quote, I was working 70 hour weeks trying to be a perfect employee--my home life was completly out of control and he was completely drunk every night for three weeks in a row.

He left exactly twenty one days ago. I got an email two days ago that has been the first thing on my mind every morning since I got it. It was about the most cruel thing I've ever read--I diatribe about what a horrible person I am, everything my family might not like about me, three paragraphs of savagery, and he actually closed by asking if it ever occured to me that being with me caused him to drink to get away from me, that it was like I was forcing him to swallow razor blades, and that it was drink or explode, drink or kill me.

All I can say is wow, to think I once wanted to marry this man. To think that I wanted to save him. Was this horrible horrible horrible email from him in response to my asking if he was going to quit drinking? Yes it was. Am I going to ask him again if he's planning on quitting? No I'm not. I swore on my mother's life and my sister's memory I would not ever try to accidentally "bump" into him near his new place. I have not had the slightest urge to do so, and I won't. And here and now I am making another vow. Not to ask him about his drinking ever again. Ever. In a perfect world I would get my passport back, and my house keys back and he would pick up the punching bag out of the garage (how symbolic is that? He left one nice photo of him and his mother, and a punching bag!) Anyhow, I just use the deadbolt that doesn't open with the key. I can get another passport if I need to, I'm certainly not going to encourage him to get anywhere near me or contact him. And since it is Sunday night I am sure he is very happy watching movies having had two six packs. And thank you higher power, he is doing it six miles away.

Sometimes I can't beleive that coming to this forum and reading just how predictable this disease is can make me feel so much relief.

I'm walking three or four hours a day, and reading and writing in a journal.
This web site was really helpful last night, anyone in a similar situation might want to check it out
Setting Personal Boundaries - protecting self

Peace.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertEyes View Post
Hello there Ken
Since your son is 13 years old, and you have described a classic "blended family", I am going to venture that your son does _not_ have codependencey. What it sounds like to me is generally called "issues". Basically, a whole lot of emotions, mixed in with puberty, that he does not know how to handle.

Because he is 13, and because he is making his sisters miserable, I would suggest that counseling for the _entire_ family is mandatory. Including as many of the adults as you can manage. Since your son is taking 3 different meds I assume there is already a psychiatrist following him. That would be the professional with which to start.
Thanks Mike. I agree with you. Based on what I am learning about codependency I'd have to say that Ben does not exhibit codependency. I think you nailed it by saying that he has "issues" blended with puberty. I know that boys have plenty of things they have to figure out while growing up. I have learned that from my own experience and I have learned as much from the book The Good Son by Michael Gurian. However divorce changes some of that and having a mom who is actively engaged in a lesbian relationship adds even more. He is actually doing quite well in the face of all these changes.

He is being followed by a psychiatrist. Has been for a while now. He changes Ben's meds as needed. He seems to know what he is doing. Ben has not seen his regular counselor for a while. I have gone with him to some of those but the counselor has asked if I don't sit in anymore. This because the child will feel as though they are in trouble or some such thing. I'm ok with it. Ben likes the guy and I trust him. It just seems like Ben is more easily agitated these days and that's why I asked him to consider going back. There are things he can share with the counselor that he can't with anyone else.

I've gotten a bit off topic by going more in depth about the minutia of Ben's life. But based on what I have shared and what I have read, it seems as though he is not codependent.

Thanks for everyone's input.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:57 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Ago View Post

I would suggest reading many of the day to day threads here and see if it relates ie "mirrors" the relationship Ben has with Bethany. Codependency does have "caretaking" in it but it also has much more, it occurs frequently in people who live in a situation they feel is "out of control" it manifests in many ways trying to regain control of the situation. the way it relates to me ie the definition I came up with for myself is it's a coping skill to handle abandonment of some sort. Because alcoholism is abandonment in a very real way I believe it was "diagnosed" there first.

The situation you have described with Ben and Bethany absolutely is being replayed out here in this forum in many marriages that include an alcoholic spouse. Frighteningly so actually. So these may be his coping mechanisms to his home life with split households, divorce etc.

This could be another "manifestation" of his "feeling abandoned"

He relies on them because he is a child.

Sorry to inundate you with information, much of which may actually not be relevant, possibly you can glean a few helpful tidbits from my glut of information, but you seem a kind and loving father who deserves all of the help he can get, I only wish my own father had been as diligent so consider me at your service, feel free to PM me and I will happily answer any questions in my ability.
Thank you Ago! I appreciate your input. I do believe that Ben feels some of the abandonment that you have brought up. I also believe that he sees himself in an "out of his control" situation and he is finding ways to cope with it and make himself feel more in control. And yes he does rely on his little sisters because he is a child, but I see it a bit differently in that he doesn't seem to want to spend time with his friends. He can easily go and be with them. I just wonder if he feels alienated because he comes from a broken home and that that is why he sticks close to his sisters. Maybe he's just lazy, I don't know.

Yes it is a lot of information and some was not relevant. But I found some things in it that were pertinent to one of my other kids.

Thanks for the nice things you said and for the invite to send you a PM.
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by LucyA View Post
I have 3 kids, 2 of my own and my nephew. My nephew has 'issues', as does my own youngest ( he's suddenly found himself to be he middle child where he was once the youngest) They're kids, they're supposed to have problems, difficulties and push their boundaries, I hope over analysis never becomes one of their problems.
Yes Lucy, I see your point. However, children who have to deal with what are really adult issues and not kid issues need special attention. Thanks.
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