the things we say that we end up regretting.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
the things we say that we end up regretting.
Today, I'm thinking about the things I texted to my exbf that I regret, when we fought on Friday night after he made it painfully clear he chose the bar over me.
I told him:
Fine, go back to your pathetic drunk-a&&, coke-snorting life.
Look in the mirror-look at what your drunk lifestyle has done to you. (my ex is fat, bordering on obese, from all the alcohol he drinks)
Why don't you go to the bar and find some drunk sl&t and take her home, cuz that's all you're going to get anymore. You will never have a rel'ship with anyone smart like me who actually gives a sh*t about you.
...and other mean things, where I was just lashing out in anger. I actually said "I hate you. You have made me hate you. Nice work."
It was like, I lost all control. I just wanted to hurt him the way he was hurting me.
Have any of you said really mean, horrible things you regret when dealing with your alcoholic/addicted loved one?
How is this love? Maybe I don't really love him. I feel like, all I did was probably knock his self-esteem down even lower, and make it easy for him to just label me some cruel, heartless b*tch and blame me for everything.
I told him:
Fine, go back to your pathetic drunk-a&&, coke-snorting life.
Look in the mirror-look at what your drunk lifestyle has done to you. (my ex is fat, bordering on obese, from all the alcohol he drinks)
Why don't you go to the bar and find some drunk sl&t and take her home, cuz that's all you're going to get anymore. You will never have a rel'ship with anyone smart like me who actually gives a sh*t about you.
...and other mean things, where I was just lashing out in anger. I actually said "I hate you. You have made me hate you. Nice work."
It was like, I lost all control. I just wanted to hurt him the way he was hurting me.
Have any of you said really mean, horrible things you regret when dealing with your alcoholic/addicted loved one?
How is this love? Maybe I don't really love him. I feel like, all I did was probably knock his self-esteem down even lower, and make it easy for him to just label me some cruel, heartless b*tch and blame me for everything.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,915
It's frustration, sweetie. I know because I've been there. We take so much of their BS and finally, we just explode. You got it out and said what you really felt at the time. Sounds like it might be best for you to just let him go. You say he's your ex-boyfriend anyway. Time to cut the ties and let him live his life the way he wants to. You should concentrate on what makes you happy and strive for that. 
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: back from the brink
Posts: 457
Give yourself some slack... it's quite understandable that you blew your top. We've all done it, and while it is out of our character—it is pretty common. We are only human.
I found it completely frustrating to witness my X's downfall. I was sober as a judge, and seeing it all plainly in front of me...but helpless to do anything to stop it.
Once you realize that you didn't cause it, couldn't stop it — you can move on. Cause "movin on" is the only thing we can do - for ourselves!
I found it completely frustrating to witness my X's downfall. I was sober as a judge, and seeing it all plainly in front of me...but helpless to do anything to stop it.
Once you realize that you didn't cause it, couldn't stop it — you can move on. Cause "movin on" is the only thing we can do - for ourselves!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
First of all thank you for your honesty
Secondly, Yes, I have said things I couldn't "take back", I became someone I didn't recognize in my relationship with a practicing alcoholic, and then "my part" and "her part" became so muddled I couldn't tell where I ended and she began, and I couldn't unravel the idiocy and craziness that had become my life.
I got so crazy and angry and frustrated and then that would be used "against me" when I did try to communicate and the whole cycle would begin again, it was crazy making behavior that fed and increased on crazy making behavior that made me go totally crazy.
So, yeah, I get it, and I would say, "But she did XYZ, and she said ABC and THEN I said EFG" and so on, and when I tried to communicate out would come the "No YOU no YOU" defense and the cycle would continue.
So what I am working on now, as in "practicing" and I fail frequently but I am learning is I remember this quote:
bb 1st ed
What I am learning is every single time I have behaved poorly in a relationship it's because I have failed to have and enforce a healthy boundary.
Every. Single. Time.
I will try to "state" my boundary as a method of "behavior modification" to try to say this behavior is unacceptable, then when an argument occurs or the behavior continues, I'm like didn't you hear me? and it's off to the races, or I will bend my boundary and allow someone to cross it, then it's off to the races again, and the thing I notice about "the races" is they seem to invariably escalate no matter how well I try to "referee" them.
I have learned standing in front of another human being restating my boundaries over and over isn't quite "it", it's not quite how they work.
The clearest example I have seen about boundaries is Anvilheads example from:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html
So when I don't set and enforce clear boundaries for me, I can and have behaved in a manner detrimental to myself and others that is unacceptable no matter what the provocation.
It's simple but by no means easy, it seems to "dress up in different clothes" and seems to have a different "story" when in fact it is the same thing over and over.
Me failing to have and set a clear boundary and be willing to do whatever it takes to enforce it, one particularly insidious and harmful way I do this is lower my boundary "for them" to be helpful"
That one has been particularly painful and disastrous. I think I am doing it for "them" but the truth of the matter is it's just another form of manipulation of myself and others.
Or If I "puff" my ego up I deserve to be treated with ______", such as using my integrity, or "helping" another person, or generally being a good guy etc. then when they don't treat me as well as I deserve I will stand in front of "them" and "state my boundaries" again and again and again until I completely lose it and I am standing there yelling "DO YOU SEE ME DO YOU SEE ME?????" whereas the truth of the matter is if they could "see" me as a person they would do so without me having to tell them, and no matter how many times I tell them or whatever behaviors I act out in won't make them "see" me, because if they had that ability they would have done so in the first place, which loops back around to me not setting and enforcing a boundary in the first place...which brings us to....
This has caused me more pain and wreckage in my life then I could ever explain.
Self care, setting clear and healthy boundaries and enforcing them, and changing my focus is self empowering to the nth degree.
I hope this made sense.
Secondly, Yes, I have said things I couldn't "take back", I became someone I didn't recognize in my relationship with a practicing alcoholic, and then "my part" and "her part" became so muddled I couldn't tell where I ended and she began, and I couldn't unravel the idiocy and craziness that had become my life.
I got so crazy and angry and frustrated and then that would be used "against me" when I did try to communicate and the whole cycle would begin again, it was crazy making behavior that fed and increased on crazy making behavior that made me go totally crazy.
So, yeah, I get it, and I would say, "But she did XYZ, and she said ABC and THEN I said EFG" and so on, and when I tried to communicate out would come the "No YOU no YOU" defense and the cycle would continue.
So what I am working on now, as in "practicing" and I fail frequently but I am learning is I remember this quote:
People hurt us, seemingly without provocation but we have invariably found we have made a decision based on self that placed us in a position to be hurt.
What I am learning is every single time I have behaved poorly in a relationship it's because I have failed to have and enforce a healthy boundary.
Every. Single. Time.
I will try to "state" my boundary as a method of "behavior modification" to try to say this behavior is unacceptable, then when an argument occurs or the behavior continues, I'm like didn't you hear me? and it's off to the races, or I will bend my boundary and allow someone to cross it, then it's off to the races again, and the thing I notice about "the races" is they seem to invariably escalate no matter how well I try to "referee" them.
I have learned standing in front of another human being restating my boundaries over and over isn't quite "it", it's not quite how they work.
The clearest example I have seen about boundaries is Anvilheads example from:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html
Often if we do not respect ourselves, we will end up exhibiting abusive behavior towards people who do not abuse us. On some level in our codependence, we are more comfortable with being abused (because it is what we have always known) than being treated in a loving way.
Learning to set boundaries is vital to learning to love our self, and to communicating to other's that we have worth.
There are basically three parts to a boundary. The first two are setting the boundary - the third is what we will do to defend that boundary.
If you - a description of the behavior we find unacceptable (again being as descriptive as possible.)
I will - a description of what action you will take to protect and take care of your self in the event the other person violates the boundary.
If you continue this behavior - a description of what steps you will take to protect the boundary that you have set.
One very drastic example (in the case of someone who is just learning about boundaries and has been physically abused in the past) would be:
If you ever hit me, I will call the police and press charges - and I will leave this relationship. If you continue to threaten me, I will get a restraining order and prepare to defend myself in whatever manner is necessary.
It is not always necessary or appropriate to share the third part of this formula with the other person when setting a boundary - the first two steps are the actual setting of the boundary. The third part is something we need to know for ourselves, so that we know what action we can take if the other person violates the boundary. If we set a boundary and expect the other person to abide by it automatically - then we are setting ourselves up to be a victim of our expectation.
It is not enough to set boundaries - it is necessary to be willing to do whatever it takes to enforce them. We need to be willing to go to any length, do whatever it takes to protect ourselves.
Learning to set boundaries is vital to learning to love our self, and to communicating to other's that we have worth.
There are basically three parts to a boundary. The first two are setting the boundary - the third is what we will do to defend that boundary.
If you - a description of the behavior we find unacceptable (again being as descriptive as possible.)
I will - a description of what action you will take to protect and take care of your self in the event the other person violates the boundary.
If you continue this behavior - a description of what steps you will take to protect the boundary that you have set.
One very drastic example (in the case of someone who is just learning about boundaries and has been physically abused in the past) would be:
If you ever hit me, I will call the police and press charges - and I will leave this relationship. If you continue to threaten me, I will get a restraining order and prepare to defend myself in whatever manner is necessary.
It is not always necessary or appropriate to share the third part of this formula with the other person when setting a boundary - the first two steps are the actual setting of the boundary. The third part is something we need to know for ourselves, so that we know what action we can take if the other person violates the boundary. If we set a boundary and expect the other person to abide by it automatically - then we are setting ourselves up to be a victim of our expectation.
It is not enough to set boundaries - it is necessary to be willing to do whatever it takes to enforce them. We need to be willing to go to any length, do whatever it takes to protect ourselves.
It's simple but by no means easy, it seems to "dress up in different clothes" and seems to have a different "story" when in fact it is the same thing over and over.
Me failing to have and set a clear boundary and be willing to do whatever it takes to enforce it, one particularly insidious and harmful way I do this is lower my boundary "for them" to be helpful"
That one has been particularly painful and disastrous. I think I am doing it for "them" but the truth of the matter is it's just another form of manipulation of myself and others.
Or If I "puff" my ego up I deserve to be treated with ______", such as using my integrity, or "helping" another person, or generally being a good guy etc. then when they don't treat me as well as I deserve I will stand in front of "them" and "state my boundaries" again and again and again until I completely lose it and I am standing there yelling "DO YOU SEE ME DO YOU SEE ME?????" whereas the truth of the matter is if they could "see" me as a person they would do so without me having to tell them, and no matter how many times I tell them or whatever behaviors I act out in won't make them "see" me, because if they had that ability they would have done so in the first place, which loops back around to me not setting and enforcing a boundary in the first place...which brings us to....
This has caused me more pain and wreckage in my life then I could ever explain.
Self care, setting clear and healthy boundaries and enforcing them, and changing my focus is self empowering to the nth degree.
I hope this made sense.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 146
I once told my ex that the only reason I lose touch with my family is when I'm with him because they don't like him and are dissapointed every time they find out I've been spending time with him.
It's the truth, and I said it in defense, but I regret it.
It's the truth, and I said it in defense, but I regret it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Boy don't I know that feeling! My friends, my family...they all said of my ex, he's a nice guy, and we can tell that he loves you, but...come on. He's horrible for you!! He's got a drinking problem...he does coke...he lies to you...etc.
I knew all of these things but I kept ignoring their advice, just hoping things would change.
Most of my friends all seemed disappointed every single time I let him back into my life (we broke up about 4 times, due to his coke use, his lying about his ex-gf, etc.)
I knew all of these things but I kept ignoring their advice, just hoping things would change.
Most of my friends all seemed disappointed every single time I let him back into my life (we broke up about 4 times, due to his coke use, his lying about his ex-gf, etc.)
Originally Posted by Crazy4Him 
I once told my ex that the only reason I lose touch with my family is when I'm with him because they don't like him and are dissapointed every time they find out I've been spending time with him.
It's the truth, and I said it in defense, but I regret it.
It's the truth, and I said it in defense, but I regret it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Yes, this makes sense, but not sure how it applies to me, cuz what happened in my case is, I WAS enforcing a boundary, but I let my anger at him crossing it, get out of control. Mainly because, he had already crossed my boundaries SO many times and I let him get away with it, and this was the absolute LAST boundary I was setting.
I mean, he violated my boundary about coke and broke his promise to me that he wouldn't do it anymore. When I told him I was walking, he had BEGGED and BEGGED me to stay with him, saying "It's my drinking, I finally acknowledge I have a problem", and I, against my better judgment, gave him another chance, under the condition that he remain sober for a month.
He couldn't do it. Friday he basically told me to kiss off cuz it's July 4th-good excuse to drink! If the moon was up, he'd probably have used that excuse. i'm sure we've all been there.
What irritated me so much was...he was angry with me! How dare he, get angry at me??? He got ticked that I ever set the boundary in the first place-I mean, did he forget I set it for a good REASON? I Felt so invalidated...I just practically busted a gut.
If I were a violent person, he'd have been in big trouble.
So I can relate to another thread someone started about "anger management" -- anger is a hard thing to control when you're dealing with the mind-screwing techniques of the alcoholic.
I am just now starting to feel grateful that I've extracted myself from that madness!!
I mean, he violated my boundary about coke and broke his promise to me that he wouldn't do it anymore. When I told him I was walking, he had BEGGED and BEGGED me to stay with him, saying "It's my drinking, I finally acknowledge I have a problem", and I, against my better judgment, gave him another chance, under the condition that he remain sober for a month.
He couldn't do it. Friday he basically told me to kiss off cuz it's July 4th-good excuse to drink! If the moon was up, he'd probably have used that excuse. i'm sure we've all been there.
What irritated me so much was...he was angry with me! How dare he, get angry at me??? He got ticked that I ever set the boundary in the first place-I mean, did he forget I set it for a good REASON? I Felt so invalidated...I just practically busted a gut.
If I were a violent person, he'd have been in big trouble.
So I can relate to another thread someone started about "anger management" -- anger is a hard thing to control when you're dealing with the mind-screwing techniques of the alcoholic.
I am just now starting to feel grateful that I've extracted myself from that madness!!
Originally Posted by Ago
First of all thank you for your honesty
Secondly, Yes, I have said things I couldn't "take back", I became someone I didn't recognize in my relationship with a practicing alcoholic, and then "my part" and "her part" became so muddled I couldn't tell where I ended and she began, and I couldn't unravel the idiocy and craziness that had become my life.
I got so crazy and angry and frustrated and then that would be used "against me" when I did try to communicate and the whole cycle would begin again, it was crazy making behavior that fed and increased on crazy making behavior that made me go totally crazy.
So, yeah, I get it, and I would say, "But she did XYZ, and she said ABC and THEN I said EFG" and so on, and when I tried to communicate out would come the "No YOU no YOU" defense and the cycle would continue.
So what I am working on now, as in "practicing" and I fail frequently but I am learning is I remember this quote:
bb 1st ed
What I am learning is every single time I have behaved poorly in a relationship it's because I have failed to have and enforce a healthy boundary.
Every. Single. Time.
Secondly, Yes, I have said things I couldn't "take back", I became someone I didn't recognize in my relationship with a practicing alcoholic, and then "my part" and "her part" became so muddled I couldn't tell where I ended and she began, and I couldn't unravel the idiocy and craziness that had become my life.
I got so crazy and angry and frustrated and then that would be used "against me" when I did try to communicate and the whole cycle would begin again, it was crazy making behavior that fed and increased on crazy making behavior that made me go totally crazy.
So, yeah, I get it, and I would say, "But she did XYZ, and she said ABC and THEN I said EFG" and so on, and when I tried to communicate out would come the "No YOU no YOU" defense and the cycle would continue.
So what I am working on now, as in "practicing" and I fail frequently but I am learning is I remember this quote:
bb 1st ed
What I am learning is every single time I have behaved poorly in a relationship it's because I have failed to have and enforce a healthy boundary.
Every. Single. Time.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Yes, this makes sense, but not sure how it applies to me, cuz what happened in my case is, I WAS enforcing a boundary, but I let my anger at him crossing it, get out of control. Mainly because, he had already crossed my boundaries SO many times and I let him get away with it, and this was the absolute LAST boundary I was setting.
he had already crossed my boundaries SO many times and I let him get away with it
I let my anger at him crossing it, get out of control
I let my anger at him crossing it, get out of control
If you had enforced the boundary to begin with you would have never been in the car.
Make sense?
I end up, in situations identical to yours, with my head all wrapped up on "what took place in the car" when the answer is, I should have never been in the car in the first place and would have NOT have been in the car had I set and enforced my boundary in the first place.
You were enforcing a boundary that had already been crossed "for the umpteenth time"
Like I said earlier:
I have learned standing in front of another human being restating my boundaries over and over isn't quite "it", it's not quite how boundaries work.
I will try to "state" my boundary as a method of "behavior modification" to try to say this behavior is unacceptable, then when the behavior continues, I'm like didn't you hear me?
I got so crazy and angry and frustrated and then that would be used "against me" when I did try to communicate and the whole cycle would begin again, it was crazy making behavior that fed and increased on crazy making behavior that made me go totally crazy.
when they don't treat me as well as I deserve I will stand in front of "them" and "state my boundaries" again and again and again until I completely lose it and I am standing there yelling "DO YOU SEE ME DO YOU SEE ME?????" whereas the truth of the matter is if they could "see" me as a person they would do so without me having to tell them, and no matter how many times I tell them or whatever behaviors I act out in won't make them "see" me, because if they had that ability they would have done so in the first place, which loops back around to me not setting and enforcing a boundary in the first place...which brings us to....
This has caused me more pain and wreckage in my life then I could ever explain.
When the truth of the matter is if I had enforced my boundary one of the first 20-30 times it was crossed I wouldn't have been in the car in the first place.
Hence, me not enforcing my boundaries always leads to me getting harmed then doing harm in turn by way of retaliation, until it gets so muddled, they are drinking because of you, and the fact you are so abusive and manipulative and you end up on sites like this scratching your head wondering to yourself how that happened, because you remember calling him a fat ******* but.....but......
then here's the kicker:
What irritated me so much was...he was angry with me! How dare he, get angry at me??? He got ticked that I ever set the boundary in the first place-I mean, did he forget I set it for a good REASON? I Felt so invalidated...I just practically busted a gut.
Me failing to have and set a clear boundary and be willing to do whatever it takes to enforce it, one particularly insidious and harmful way I do this is lower my boundary "for them" to be helpful"
That one has been particularly painful and disastrous. I think I am doing it for "them" but the truth of the matter is it's just another form of manipulation of myself and others. (setting a "boundary" which is in reality "behavior modification' is manipulation and by me "lowering my boundary" and "giving them another chance" I "expect" them to "behave" in return, I am setting myself up for failure because I am "being nice" and "giving them another chance" when the truth of the matter is I am manipulating myself in order to get what I want from them by doing something "nice" for them so they will treat me in a certain way, ie; the way I want, which is at the end of the day, controlling)
That "puffs" my ego up so I deserve to be treated with ______", such as using my integrity, or "helping" another person, or generally being a good guy etc. then when they don't treat me as well as I deserve I will stand in front of "them" and "state my boundaries" again and again and again until I completely lose it and I am standing there yelling "DO YOU SEE ME DO YOU SEE ME?????" whereas the truth of the matter is if they could "see" me as a person they would do so without me having to tell them, and no matter how many times I tell them or whatever behaviors I act out in won't make them "see" me, because if they had that ability they would have done so in the first place, which loops back around to me not setting and enforcing a boundary in the first place...which brings us to....
This has caused me more pain and wreckage in my life then I could ever explain.
That one has been particularly painful and disastrous. I think I am doing it for "them" but the truth of the matter is it's just another form of manipulation of myself and others. (setting a "boundary" which is in reality "behavior modification' is manipulation and by me "lowering my boundary" and "giving them another chance" I "expect" them to "behave" in return, I am setting myself up for failure because I am "being nice" and "giving them another chance" when the truth of the matter is I am manipulating myself in order to get what I want from them by doing something "nice" for them so they will treat me in a certain way, ie; the way I want, which is at the end of the day, controlling)
That "puffs" my ego up so I deserve to be treated with ______", such as using my integrity, or "helping" another person, or generally being a good guy etc. then when they don't treat me as well as I deserve I will stand in front of "them" and "state my boundaries" again and again and again until I completely lose it and I am standing there yelling "DO YOU SEE ME DO YOU SEE ME?????" whereas the truth of the matter is if they could "see" me as a person they would do so without me having to tell them, and no matter how many times I tell them or whatever behaviors I act out in won't make them "see" me, because if they had that ability they would have done so in the first place, which loops back around to me not setting and enforcing a boundary in the first place...which brings us to....
This has caused me more pain and wreckage in my life then I could ever explain.
By the way, I don't know if this is helpful for you, but I am getting a TON of insight into myself by writing this out, I knew all this stuff but hadn't followed it through and had it make so much sense to me and still kept being confused with the "yeah buts"
Last edited by Ago; 07-05-2009 at 06:48 PM.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 75
So in my other "normal" relationships in the past I could just say, "hey, you hurt me" and the person would realize it was a problem and they'd likely try to change.
But with XAB was sitting there month after month after month saying "this is not acceptable" & "this is not acceptable" but I wasn't listening to myself. If it were unacceptable, I would have protected myself by moving away from this man who was consciously acting in such a way as to hurt me, hurt himself, & others.
I think most of my frustration, looking back, was really with me. Long long after I realized he wasn't listening to a word I was saying I realized I wasn't listening to a word I was saying either!!
Bottom line, I agree with Suki:
But with XAB was sitting there month after month after month saying "this is not acceptable" & "this is not acceptable" but I wasn't listening to myself. If it were unacceptable, I would have protected myself by moving away from this man who was consciously acting in such a way as to hurt me, hurt himself, & others.
I think most of my frustration, looking back, was really with me. Long long after I realized he wasn't listening to a word I was saying I realized I wasn't listening to a word I was saying either!!
Bottom line, I agree with Suki:
Time to cut the ties and let him live his life the way he wants to. You should concentrate on what makes you happy and strive for that.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Yes, yes, yes-this all makes sense. This is sooo true. Everyone thinks I'm the abusive, controlling one now and the fact that well, he broke his promise to me has fallen by the wayside.
Plus, how convenient his friends and family can now look at me as the bad guy, so they don't have to face the cold hard truth about my ex and his alcoholism.
Now I feel like I wasted so much time, continually getting back together with him, when I should have cut him out of my life the first time he crossed the line.
Plus, how convenient his friends and family can now look at me as the bad guy, so they don't have to face the cold hard truth about my ex and his alcoholism.
Now I feel like I wasted so much time, continually getting back together with him, when I should have cut him out of my life the first time he crossed the line.
Originally Posted by Ago
So now, in the situations I have been part of in the past, the focus would now be on how "abusive" and "controlling" I had been and how I had called him "fat" or whatever, with some validity I might add, because, you know, to a practicing alcoholic the best defense is a good offense, rather then, to me the issue that was important was, my boundary had been crossed, and the cycle would just round and round with no resolution. I would be focusing on my "crossed boundary", they would be focusing on my "abusive and controlling behavior" I would be saying "yeah but I wouldn't have lost my temper if you hadn't trampled my boundaries and called you those names" and blah blah blah
When the truth of the matter is if I had enforced my boundary one of the first 20-30 times it was crossed I wouldn't have been in the car in the first place.
Hence, me not enforcing my boundaries always leads to me getting harmed then doing harm in turn by way of retaliation, until it gets so muddled, they are drinking because of you, and the fact you are so abusive and manipulative and you end up on sites like this scratching your head wondering to yourself how that happened, because you remember calling him a fat ******* but.....but......
then here's the kicker:
Which matches this because you had already set the boundary SO many times and he kept crossing it and you kept letting him, hence you were "doing him a favor" by setting the boundary again but really lowering your boundary because it had already been crossed so many times:
So by lowering and not enforcing my boundary in the first place it caused this entire train wreck to happen.
By the way, I don't know if this is helpful for you, but I am getting a TON of insight into myself by writing this out, I knew all this stuff but hadn't followed it through and had it make so much sense to me and still kept being confused with the "yeah buts"
When the truth of the matter is if I had enforced my boundary one of the first 20-30 times it was crossed I wouldn't have been in the car in the first place.
Hence, me not enforcing my boundaries always leads to me getting harmed then doing harm in turn by way of retaliation, until it gets so muddled, they are drinking because of you, and the fact you are so abusive and manipulative and you end up on sites like this scratching your head wondering to yourself how that happened, because you remember calling him a fat ******* but.....but......
then here's the kicker:
Which matches this because you had already set the boundary SO many times and he kept crossing it and you kept letting him, hence you were "doing him a favor" by setting the boundary again but really lowering your boundary because it had already been crossed so many times:
So by lowering and not enforcing my boundary in the first place it caused this entire train wreck to happen.
By the way, I don't know if this is helpful for you, but I am getting a TON of insight into myself by writing this out, I knew all this stuff but hadn't followed it through and had it make so much sense to me and still kept being confused with the "yeah buts"
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
There is nothing more insane to me than people refusing to see the truth, which is so simple a third grader could understand. Someone makes a promise to keep a relationship. They break that promise. Therefore, they lose the relationship!
What I'm realizing, is that I've been the lone person on the sidewalk, pointing at this growing inferno; meanwhile everyone else around my ex is fiddling while Rome burns. Well, you can only point out what people don't want to see for so long, before they start looking at YOU as nuts. Eventually, you gotta get off the sidewalk and run to safety before you get burned as well!
What I'm realizing, is that I've been the lone person on the sidewalk, pointing at this growing inferno; meanwhile everyone else around my ex is fiddling while Rome burns. Well, you can only point out what people don't want to see for so long, before they start looking at YOU as nuts. Eventually, you gotta get off the sidewalk and run to safety before you get burned as well!
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 96
Every single thing I ever said to my STBEXAH was remembered by him and brought up against me months, sometimes literally years afterwards. Three days before he left me for good (I didnt know it at the time) he brought up things I had said which had resolved themselves and didnt appear to be a problem anymore...suddenly they were...After he left, he rang and I said I havent done anything, his response, not recently...he had stored everything up so I was the problem, never ever any mention in our relationship of his behaviours as an alcoholic but always always my behaviour, not ever to be forgotten. Even when we had to speak initially for him to get his stuff, I said something and guess what, next phone conversation he brought it up, Ive read somewhere that it is a major red flag if someone never lets go of things you have said in anger....his behaviour made me angry, I didnt respond in the right way, I knew no better then..I do now but only in hindsight, but I didnt hang onto everything he did, in fact, my brain had this great capacity for forgetting his cruelty, coldness, many abandonments, never knowing where he was, his switching off his phone, his unkindness about me to others, not to my face, at least I said things to him, not others...Hey it takes two but I had never been in a relationship with an alcoholic b4 and much of my time was spent trying to keep him happy...it was only the terrible frustration that made me literally feel like I was going insane..Maybe gone off the thread a bit here...but the utter confusion and always being the one in the wrong was awful and I got to believe it, some others did too until they got to know me and my AH. Hugs Lilly
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
sandrawg, this is a tough part of your "extraction" process, for sure.
When I saw that my relationship with an alcoholic was turning me into a person I didn't recognize, a person I didn't respect, I knew it was time to cut it off completely and go no-contact. No matter how much it "hurt" him, no matter whether I still had an inkling of hope that some magical miracle might happen and he'd change into a completely different person LOL...I didn't want to be that woman with so much fury and venom, it was horrible to watch because THAT'S NOT ME, and so I had to end it.
It's all up to you, of course, but I felt much better about myself and my life, and realized I wasn't the raging b*tch I thought I was. I was just forcing myself to suffer so much -- staying in a relationship with a fat, lying, drug-addicted alcoholic -- that it came out as rage. When I stopped making myself suffer, the anger eventually subsided. And, well, pretty soon I didn't give a **** any more
Hoping for peace of mind for you soon
So I can relate to another thread someone started about "anger management" -- anger is a hard thing to control when you're dealing with the mind-screwing techniques of the alcoholic.
I am just now starting to feel grateful that I've extracted myself from that madness!!
I am just now starting to feel grateful that I've extracted myself from that madness!!
It's all up to you, of course, but I felt much better about myself and my life, and realized I wasn't the raging b*tch I thought I was. I was just forcing myself to suffer so much -- staying in a relationship with a fat, lying, drug-addicted alcoholic -- that it came out as rage. When I stopped making myself suffer, the anger eventually subsided. And, well, pretty soon I didn't give a **** any more
Hoping for peace of mind for you soon
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
There is nothing more insane to me than people refusing to see the truth, which is so simple a third grader could understand.
This is the part where I get to change MYSELF
There is nothing more insane to me than people refusing to see the truth, which is so simple a third grader could understand.
he had already crossed my boundaries SO many times and I let him get away with it
I'm beginning to see this is what they mean by "changing my focus"
Last edited by Ago; 07-06-2009 at 10:25 AM.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by covington
So in my other "normal" relationships in the past I could just say, "hey, you hurt me" and the person would realize it was a problem and they'd likely try to change.
But with XAB was sitting there month after month after month saying "this is not acceptable" & "this is not acceptable" but I wasn't listening to myself. If it were unacceptable, I would have protected myself by moving away from this man who was consciously acting in such a way as to hurt me, hurt himself, & others.
I think most of my frustration, looking back, was really with me. Long long after I realized he wasn't listening to a word I was saying I realized I wasn't listening to a word I was saying either!!
But with XAB was sitting there month after month after month saying "this is not acceptable" & "this is not acceptable" but I wasn't listening to myself. If it were unacceptable, I would have protected myself by moving away from this man who was consciously acting in such a way as to hurt me, hurt himself, & others.
I think most of my frustration, looking back, was really with me. Long long after I realized he wasn't listening to a word I was saying I realized I wasn't listening to a word I was saying either!!
I have long realized that much of my interpersonal relationship difficulties including work, family, and romantic relationships have come from not stating and enforcing a "No" firmly enough, but what happens after I don't enforce my boundary is where I get "caught up" and "enmeshed" in, that is where "my focus" goes, and that is always a convoluted morass of blame for all concerned that is impossible to untangle, but by going back, I see that it has ALWAYS started with me either not having a clear boundary or not enforcing it.
When I returned home and had my feelings hurt a few times by my "healthy" friends, I stated my "boundaries" and said, "hey that hurt my feelings" and they heard, validated, and respected my boundaries I used that to show "I was right" in my dealings with "unhealthy people", that the problem was "unhealthy people" not hearing and respecting my boundaries, when in fact that wasn't 100% the case, it STILL went back to me not "enforcing" a "No".
My problem is not dealing with "healthy people", I'm good at that, my problem is dealing with people who wouldn't know a boundary if it pooped in their Easter basket, but since, at the end of the day, I don't "enforce" my boundary I blame them, and once I let them cross my boundary, I end up down at their level.
I have heard it said that you can't bring somebody "up" to your level, but they can certainly "drag" you down to theirs, that has proven to be overwhelmingly true, and in every case it comes from me not enforcing my boundary "no matter what".
This has been confusing me for the last year, I knew it, but I wasn't putting all the "pieces" together until now in a coherent sequence of events, so I want to really thank Sandrawg for her threads.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 108
I have sort of held off on posting to this thread. I really don't regret anything that I've said. I'm not a mean or vindictive person by nature so I guess I've never said anything too hurtful. Most of what I say is from my heart, even if its bad. When I do say something I feel is too mean, I generally apologize for it. That's why I get treated like a doormat and my XABF knows exactly what to say to turn things around on me and make me feel guilty for what I've said. I have never bashed his daughter or family and the things I have said have been simply bringing his past actions to light. I'm not sure it's so wrong to tell an alcoholic that they are choosing the alcohol over you. I've told my XABF this many times. You are choosing the alcohol over us. This is true and most literature will tell you that it is true. Alcohol is number 1 to the untreated addict. Just my 2 cents.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
I told my ex that, many times, too. But in a really angry way, as in, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD CHOOSE COKE / BOOZE OVER ME.
Mixed in there, tho, were lots of personal attacks - I was like a snake that lashes out to be defensive. I can't say "I couldn't help it"-of course, I could've helped it. I let myself fly off the handle when it hit home that he was doing exactly what he KNEW would make me lose him.
I just...ugh.
Can't type anymore, sorry.
Mixed in there, tho, were lots of personal attacks - I was like a snake that lashes out to be defensive. I can't say "I couldn't help it"-of course, I could've helped it. I let myself fly off the handle when it hit home that he was doing exactly what he KNEW would make me lose him.
I just...ugh.
Can't type anymore, sorry.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,542
Just remember not to beat yourself up too much about lashing out. Take responsibility for your actions, yes, but don't berate yourself for it. I did it, despite my best intentions to detach, detach, detach. It took me some time but I did learn the hard way - anything I said in anger would just give STBXAH even more ammunition. So now I don't react. I don't scream and shout. I don't engage in the argument. And I think that drove/drives him more insane than anything I could ever say.
I do know that, at the end, he was losing it big time. Things started to get physical with him throwing things around and he left - partially I think because he knew he was out of control and would hit me if he stayed. Scary times and I'm glad not to be living through that any more.
Now, when I have to contact him (about selling the house) I just don't engage with the argument - not matter how tempting - because I know it would be a waste of my breath!
Trying to reason with my STBXAH is like trying to reason with a wall. Like him, it is fixed in its position and just cannot hear what it is you're saying. I'm not a bricklayer so I cannot cure/control/change it! What I can do it stop trying to reason with it and save myself a headache - it is what it is!
I do know that, at the end, he was losing it big time. Things started to get physical with him throwing things around and he left - partially I think because he knew he was out of control and would hit me if he stayed. Scary times and I'm glad not to be living through that any more.
Now, when I have to contact him (about selling the house) I just don't engage with the argument - not matter how tempting - because I know it would be a waste of my breath!
Trying to reason with my STBXAH is like trying to reason with a wall. Like him, it is fixed in its position and just cannot hear what it is you're saying. I'm not a bricklayer so I cannot cure/control/change it! What I can do it stop trying to reason with it and save myself a headache - it is what it is!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
