The 1st Step and the 3rd Tradition
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The 1st Step and the 3rd Tradition
I am 6.25 months (my handy sobriety calculator tells me 
). Today at my favorite AA meeting we discussed the third tradition... "The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to quit drinking." The leader discussed how, with him the desire came a little at a time... he had entered AA as the result of a DUI. He has "good sobriety" and has had for many years...
I am struggling with this desire thing. It is interesting because I work the 1st step every day... There is no doubt in my mind that I am powerless over alcohol and waking up in rehab every day for 2 months certainly drove the point home that my life had become unmanageable... though I knew it was unmanageable well before rehab.... (Rehab for me was part of an intervention to save my career.)
You know, I can't say that I always have the desire to quit drinking. I have surrendered, I am powerless over alcohol. I do enjoy very much my sobriety, I value and nurture it. But as Sunday afternoon comes to a close, full of activities that would always include a beer or four (any activity would have done....) I am troubled by this paradox...
I want to be sober, I need to be sober, and, I will be, God willing. But that seeming paradox of the 1st step and the 3rd tradition. Given the people who shared this morning, I wasn't alone.
What do people here on SR think... (be kind!!)
Mark
). Today at my favorite AA meeting we discussed the third tradition... "The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to quit drinking." The leader discussed how, with him the desire came a little at a time... he had entered AA as the result of a DUI. He has "good sobriety" and has had for many years...I am struggling with this desire thing. It is interesting because I work the 1st step every day... There is no doubt in my mind that I am powerless over alcohol and waking up in rehab every day for 2 months certainly drove the point home that my life had become unmanageable... though I knew it was unmanageable well before rehab.... (Rehab for me was part of an intervention to save my career.)
You know, I can't say that I always have the desire to quit drinking. I have surrendered, I am powerless over alcohol. I do enjoy very much my sobriety, I value and nurture it. But as Sunday afternoon comes to a close, full of activities that would always include a beer or four (any activity would have done....) I am troubled by this paradox...
I want to be sober, I need to be sober, and, I will be, God willing. But that seeming paradox of the 1st step and the 3rd tradition. Given the people who shared this morning, I wasn't alone.
What do people here on SR think... (be kind!!)
Mark
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NYC Metro Area
Posts: 78
I can relate. I have been trying to "get" this program (or let this program get me) for the past year, and one of the problems I think I've had is that it was more that I wanted to want to stop drinking, rather than simply WANTING to stop drinking.
I only have five days back now, and I have no desire to drink right now. I have no doubt that I have no power over alcohol and that it makes my life unmanageble. But I also can't say that I will always have "the desire to stop drinking." It's something I think I will have to battle for a long time. Before, I was always of the mindset "Well, I'm definitely going to drink at XYZ event in the future, so what's the big deal; if I want to drink now, I will."
I don't have any answers right now. I think "good" sobriety is a gradual process.
I only have five days back now, and I have no desire to drink right now. I have no doubt that I have no power over alcohol and that it makes my life unmanageble. But I also can't say that I will always have "the desire to stop drinking." It's something I think I will have to battle for a long time. Before, I was always of the mindset "Well, I'm definitely going to drink at XYZ event in the future, so what's the big deal; if I want to drink now, I will."
I don't have any answers right now. I think "good" sobriety is a gradual process.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX
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Originally Posted by Cubile75 
I want to be sober, I need to be sober, and, I will be, God willing. But that seeming paradox of the 1st step and the 3rd tradition. Given the people who shared this morning, I wasn't alone.
What do people here on SR think... (be kind!!)
Mark
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Many people need to reach a lower bottom than previously 'visited' before they desire to stop drinking.
Hopefully that bottom will not be death (as I have unfortunately seen in some instances).
And... it hopefully will not involve the death of someone else.....
Hopefully that bottom will not be death (as I have unfortunately seen in some instances).
And... it hopefully will not involve the death of someone else.....
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
I don't see the paradox here.
The steps are suggestions on how an individual works the program. The traditions are suggestions on how an AA group runs their meetings.
If you are working step 1, no matter how well or how poorly, you are a member of the fellowship of AA.
Tradition 3 is a guideline for the groups which says that no one can be refused membership in AA if they have a desire to stop drinking. I think of the 3rd tradition as the equal opportunity tradition - you cannot keep someone out because they are female, black, gay or lesbian, non-christian or non-believer, homeless, don't speak English, etc., etc.
So as I said, I do not see the paradox at all. Here is an article on the traditions which may help:
Twelve Traditions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The steps are suggestions on how an individual works the program. The traditions are suggestions on how an AA group runs their meetings.
If you are working step 1, no matter how well or how poorly, you are a member of the fellowship of AA.
Tradition 3 is a guideline for the groups which says that no one can be refused membership in AA if they have a desire to stop drinking. I think of the 3rd tradition as the equal opportunity tradition - you cannot keep someone out because they are female, black, gay or lesbian, non-christian or non-believer, homeless, don't speak English, etc., etc.
So as I said, I do not see the paradox at all. Here is an article on the traditions which may help:
Twelve Traditions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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I work the 1st step everytime I think about a drink or see alcohol glamorized in the media - I remind myself of how one drink would always lead to another, how I felt after drinking too much day after day, how my life had become unmanageable, how I really missed experiencing my own life, how I isolated from my loved ones and how it became all about me...
3rd tradition as is usually understood is that you don't have to say... "I am an alcoholic" or even stop drinking before you can become a member of AA. What is important is that you simply want to quit drinking. This really allows many who aren't ready to take certain steps, to come and investigate AA in a non-threatening way. Today's meeting for me (still a newbie) was unique because it looked at a tradition (traditions are meant to be a plan for the group, steps a plan for the individual) from an individual's perspective.
Tommyk - excellent point, certainly not lost on me. The medical director at the rehab I was at asked me "Do you know what your problem is going to be for you?" "No" I said... "You still have an address..." I get that... But my bottom was the lowest point in my life... And it helps me to keep that green.... Thanx
Mark
3rd tradition as is usually understood is that you don't have to say... "I am an alcoholic" or even stop drinking before you can become a member of AA. What is important is that you simply want to quit drinking. This really allows many who aren't ready to take certain steps, to come and investigate AA in a non-threatening way. Today's meeting for me (still a newbie) was unique because it looked at a tradition (traditions are meant to be a plan for the group, steps a plan for the individual) from an individual's perspective.
Tommyk - excellent point, certainly not lost on me. The medical director at the rehab I was at asked me "Do you know what your problem is going to be for you?" "No" I said... "You still have an address..." I get that... But my bottom was the lowest point in my life... And it helps me to keep that green.... Thanx
Mark
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
Dr Bob said
If someone takes as much as one drink of alcohol,they are out of the fellowship.
When it comes to membership in AA concerning drinking ,I refer them to Dr Bob`s statement.
The co-founder set the standard as far as I am concerned.
In my area,white chips are given out after a slip,or for a newcomer who wants help, and they(slippers) start anew.Their membership starts anew too.Those who are drinking are not members of AA.We call them visitors.
Also,according to the 3rd tradition,many people have hid behind it to pull off their sick crap that affects the group,AA, and others in a horrible way,and any AA group can refuse group membership to anyone,or have anyone leave their meeting if necessary,by using whatever means necessary,and not come back.On the other hand,real AA is a way of life and no one can stop someone from living it I guess,but if I am living it,I will not be a problem to the group,AA,or anyone else.
Yet,when I take another look at the positive side of tradition 3 ,it says anyone who wants help,to recover,(long form trad 3) from their drinking problem is welcome.I find that very refreshing and a great thing.If you want to recover,great.Come on in and join us.
In AA we recover by taking the 12 steps.
If someone takes as much as one drink of alcohol,they are out of the fellowship.
When it comes to membership in AA concerning drinking ,I refer them to Dr Bob`s statement.
The co-founder set the standard as far as I am concerned.
In my area,white chips are given out after a slip,or for a newcomer who wants help, and they(slippers) start anew.Their membership starts anew too.Those who are drinking are not members of AA.We call them visitors.
Also,according to the 3rd tradition,many people have hid behind it to pull off their sick crap that affects the group,AA, and others in a horrible way,and any AA group can refuse group membership to anyone,or have anyone leave their meeting if necessary,by using whatever means necessary,and not come back.On the other hand,real AA is a way of life and no one can stop someone from living it I guess,but if I am living it,I will not be a problem to the group,AA,or anyone else.
Yet,when I take another look at the positive side of tradition 3 ,it says anyone who wants help,to recover,(long form trad 3) from their drinking problem is welcome.I find that very refreshing and a great thing.If you want to recover,great.Come on in and join us.
In AA we recover by taking the 12 steps.
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This was buggin' me all night, so I found the Third Tradition. Below is a quote from 12 Steps and 12 Traditions.
"You are an A.A. member if you say so. You can declare yourself in; nobody can keep you out. No matter who you are, no matter how low you've gone, no matter how grave your emotional complications - even your crimes - we still can't deny you A.A. We don't want to keep you out. We aren't a bit afraid you'll harm us, never mind how twisted or violent you may be. We just want to be sure that you get the same great chance for sobriety that we've had. So you're an A.A. member the minute you declare yourself.
Mark
"You are an A.A. member if you say so. You can declare yourself in; nobody can keep you out. No matter who you are, no matter how low you've gone, no matter how grave your emotional complications - even your crimes - we still can't deny you A.A. We don't want to keep you out. We aren't a bit afraid you'll harm us, never mind how twisted or violent you may be. We just want to be sure that you get the same great chance for sobriety that we've had. So you're an A.A. member the minute you declare yourself.
Mark
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
Mark,good to see you digging into the book....
Mark,AA is a way of life,the meetings are just fellowship,but in the end, it is the groups themselves that have the right to decide who the group members are.Every group I have seen gladly takes anyone who wants in,as long as they want to get sober.If the person presents problems that affects others and the group in a bad way,the group suffers,and the group has the right to take whatever action necessary to correct the problem.It is also their responsibility to do so,for several reasons.
One is trad one,unity.Second is trad five,to keep the focus on carrying the message.
Old timers have a saying born out of their many yrs of experience-
if you have a meeting where anything goes,pretty soon,no on will go.
Then if no one goes,no one recovers.Being asked to leave a group is one thing,but being asked to leave all of AA is another.Separate the two if you can.
Anyone can come to my home group if they have been drinking,but we do the talking,not the drinkers.Those currently drinking can`t share with others how they got sober and stay sober,so they need to listen.We allow them to ask questions,and the group answers.Also,as you know,you can`t get sober by drinking alcohol.You first need to separate yourself from alcohol,and then work on getting sober.
When a newcomer has a slip,they get another white chip which means several things,one is they are wanting to be a member of AA again.Why do you think we give out those white chips?
call this number and ask to speak to someone about traditions.They can put it a lot better than I can on a larger scale.
212-870-3400
A.A.W.S.
ever thought of getting a service sponsor who has years of experience in service?I did and it has helped me a lot to better understand the concepts and traditions.
Mark,AA is a way of life,the meetings are just fellowship,but in the end, it is the groups themselves that have the right to decide who the group members are.Every group I have seen gladly takes anyone who wants in,as long as they want to get sober.If the person presents problems that affects others and the group in a bad way,the group suffers,and the group has the right to take whatever action necessary to correct the problem.It is also their responsibility to do so,for several reasons.
One is trad one,unity.Second is trad five,to keep the focus on carrying the message.
Old timers have a saying born out of their many yrs of experience-
if you have a meeting where anything goes,pretty soon,no on will go.
Then if no one goes,no one recovers.Being asked to leave a group is one thing,but being asked to leave all of AA is another.Separate the two if you can.
Anyone can come to my home group if they have been drinking,but we do the talking,not the drinkers.Those currently drinking can`t share with others how they got sober and stay sober,so they need to listen.We allow them to ask questions,and the group answers.Also,as you know,you can`t get sober by drinking alcohol.You first need to separate yourself from alcohol,and then work on getting sober.
When a newcomer has a slip,they get another white chip which means several things,one is they are wanting to be a member of AA again.Why do you think we give out those white chips?
call this number and ask to speak to someone about traditions.They can put it a lot better than I can on a larger scale.
212-870-3400
A.A.W.S.
ever thought of getting a service sponsor who has years of experience in service?I did and it has helped me a lot to better understand the concepts and traditions.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Hey...
Clearly we have alot more in common than we do differences. Mostly, the desire to remain sober.
I do have a sponsor, I am a regular member of the 20/20 club and have a service commitment. The leader of yesterday's meeting has 15 years of sobriety and I hold him in high esteem. As a newcomer, I listen to him, and others like him, quite closely. This particular group is a beginners group called, in fact, "Listen and Learn".
I thought it was a brilliant discussion he led... He spoke to those people who struggle with "the desire to quit drinking", as opposed to.... knowing that you are powerless over alcohol and that your life has become unmanageable. The latter I have no doubt about myself, but, as a newcomer, I still struggle with the former. It was a wonderful way for him to reach out to those of us who are still struggling. He too struggled initially... I AM NOT ALONE!!! (Dr. Bob, according to "The Doctor's Nightmare" also struggled with this for the first 2 and a half years...)
Perhaps I read some of what you said wrongly. I do get a mixed message, however, about what it means to qualify for membership in AA versus membership in your group. I guess I feel a certain ambivalence from you on this point. Reread what you said about the newcomer (I am sure this applies to the old timer also) who has a slip... "they are wanting to become a member of AA again (my emphasis).
My take, correct me if I'm wrong, is that there are no requirements for membership in AA, other than the desire to quit drinking... period. Chips are, obviously, given for the amount of time a person has gone without a drink... period. When I became a member of my home group, I signed the book and wrote in my sobriety date... period.
I certainly agree that someone who is not sober or has not been sober long or is not truly in recovery (but even there, I don't think others can judge...) doesn't have a lot to offer the newcomer at discussion meetings. That's why I rarely share, I'm too busy listening.
SR is a bit different though. It's not AA. It allows for newcomers to express feelings, struggles, confusion, etc... with others without worrying about taking up valuable time in an AA meeting and without the potential F2F embarassment. I love it and that is what keeps me coming back.
Thanx for sharing and participating in this thread. You have helped me a great deal, even if I don't seem to fully agree. If anything, I spent a terrific evening reading about the 12 traditions...
Mark
Clearly we have alot more in common than we do differences. Mostly, the desire to remain sober.
I do have a sponsor, I am a regular member of the 20/20 club and have a service commitment. The leader of yesterday's meeting has 15 years of sobriety and I hold him in high esteem. As a newcomer, I listen to him, and others like him, quite closely. This particular group is a beginners group called, in fact, "Listen and Learn".
I thought it was a brilliant discussion he led... He spoke to those people who struggle with "the desire to quit drinking", as opposed to.... knowing that you are powerless over alcohol and that your life has become unmanageable. The latter I have no doubt about myself, but, as a newcomer, I still struggle with the former. It was a wonderful way for him to reach out to those of us who are still struggling. He too struggled initially... I AM NOT ALONE!!! (Dr. Bob, according to "The Doctor's Nightmare" also struggled with this for the first 2 and a half years...)
Perhaps I read some of what you said wrongly. I do get a mixed message, however, about what it means to qualify for membership in AA versus membership in your group. I guess I feel a certain ambivalence from you on this point. Reread what you said about the newcomer (I am sure this applies to the old timer also) who has a slip... "they are wanting to become a member of AA again (my emphasis).
My take, correct me if I'm wrong, is that there are no requirements for membership in AA, other than the desire to quit drinking... period. Chips are, obviously, given for the amount of time a person has gone without a drink... period. When I became a member of my home group, I signed the book and wrote in my sobriety date... period.
I certainly agree that someone who is not sober or has not been sober long or is not truly in recovery (but even there, I don't think others can judge...) doesn't have a lot to offer the newcomer at discussion meetings. That's why I rarely share, I'm too busy listening.
SR is a bit different though. It's not AA. It allows for newcomers to express feelings, struggles, confusion, etc... with others without worrying about taking up valuable time in an AA meeting and without the potential F2F embarassment. I love it and that is what keeps me coming back.
Thanx for sharing and participating in this thread. You have helped me a great deal, even if I don't seem to fully agree. If anything, I spent a terrific evening reading about the 12 traditions...
Mark
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Mark a good thread with good discussion.
In regards to "Group" membership vs. "AA" membership here is an example, that I know of from some old timers. Years before I got into the rooms we had a guy at my home group who was really a problem for the ladies, one lady made the mistake of going out with him............. long story short it actually reached the point of him stalking her, she got a restraining on him and the men in the group told him he was not welcome to the group anymore and suggested he go to strictly mens meetings.
Basically he was not thrown out of AA, just the group for the good of the women and pointed in the direction of mens groups for his own sobriety.
If I may suggest there are many things that are shared/discussed before and after meetings one on one because they could prove embarrassing or not really appropiate for a meeting, that and some things we should try to limit talking to our sponsors about one on one or with some one we know and trust other then our sponsor.
In regards to "Group" membership vs. "AA" membership here is an example, that I know of from some old timers. Years before I got into the rooms we had a guy at my home group who was really a problem for the ladies, one lady made the mistake of going out with him............. long story short it actually reached the point of him stalking her, she got a restraining on him and the men in the group told him he was not welcome to the group anymore and suggested he go to strictly mens meetings.
Basically he was not thrown out of AA, just the group for the good of the women and pointed in the direction of mens groups for his own sobriety.
It allows for newcomers to express feelings, struggles, confusion, etc... with others without worrying about taking up valuable time in an AA meeting and without the potential F2F embarassment. I love it and that is what keeps me coming back.
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
I don't want to drink. My disease wants me to drink.
There's a lot going on inside my head. Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish between what I'm thinking and what the disease is thinking.
There's a lot going on inside my head. Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish between what I'm thinking and what the disease is thinking.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
Mark,first I say good job on getting involved and following the good path of sobriety.I encourage you to keep on trucking down that path,sounds like you`re doing great.
Next,I wasn`t wanting to argue but discuss.That we did,and when you said
If anything, I spent a terrific evening reading about the 12 traditions
it reminded me of when I was new and we had trouble at my home group.We left the meeting upset and we went home and read up on the traditions in the 12x12 and learned.The trouble we had made us better because we did excally what you did.We
got into the solution,we studied the book.Good job!
Taz put it good when he referred to the example of the difference between AA group membership and AA membership.Thats what I was talking about.
I know some old timers who could not make it to a AA meeting sober at first.They kept coming back and one day they made it sober,and are still sober today.
the chips here are offered for time in the program sober,all except the white chip,we call that one the membership chip or the beginners chip.We don`t call it the desire chip.We see it different that you folks do
anyway,this has been a great discussion and good luck buddy
Tommy
Next,I wasn`t wanting to argue but discuss.That we did,and when you said
If anything, I spent a terrific evening reading about the 12 traditions
it reminded me of when I was new and we had trouble at my home group.We left the meeting upset and we went home and read up on the traditions in the 12x12 and learned.The trouble we had made us better because we did excally what you did.We
got into the solution,we studied the book.Good job!
Taz put it good when he referred to the example of the difference between AA group membership and AA membership.Thats what I was talking about.
I know some old timers who could not make it to a AA meeting sober at first.They kept coming back and one day they made it sober,and are still sober today.
the chips here are offered for time in the program sober,all except the white chip,we call that one the membership chip or the beginners chip.We don`t call it the desire chip.We see it different that you folks do
anyway,this has been a great discussion and good luck buddy
Tommy
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 679
(btw, not an AA member although don't know if matters)
I am not quite sure if I get it. I for a while have wanted to quit drinking, have quit now for almost six months. So third tradition— check.
First step. Powerlessness over alcohol— that is a different issue. I struggle with that, not because I am not in AA, but because I have two little voices in my head competing. I don't know if I will ever be completely convinced that I am powerless over alcohol. I feel like each time I wrestle with a craving I have to try and revisit this issue. And it is hard. It is a continual struggle. I think step one never goes away. I mean people who are sober 15 years pick up drinks again. If you are able to admit absolute powerlessness to alcohol (and in my opinion no alcoholic is) then it would be easy to never pick up a drink again.
Back to the desire to not drink. I think two conflicting desires can simultaneously exist. Like when I have a craving and the two little people are each vying for their want. Stay sober. No, have a drink. I can equally be at home and part of me wants to go out to dinner and the other part wants to heat up something and sit in front of the tv. With powerlessness, however, I don't think there can be such conflict. It can however, exist in varying degrees. Like right now I probably if I will be completely honest think I am 50% powerless to alcohol (I wish it were 100% but again I don't know if I or anyone can ever get there.
Did any of what I just wrote make sense? Did I respond to what you were asking or did I miss your question completely?
I am not quite sure if I get it. I for a while have wanted to quit drinking, have quit now for almost six months. So third tradition— check.
First step. Powerlessness over alcohol— that is a different issue. I struggle with that, not because I am not in AA, but because I have two little voices in my head competing. I don't know if I will ever be completely convinced that I am powerless over alcohol. I feel like each time I wrestle with a craving I have to try and revisit this issue. And it is hard. It is a continual struggle. I think step one never goes away. I mean people who are sober 15 years pick up drinks again. If you are able to admit absolute powerlessness to alcohol (and in my opinion no alcoholic is) then it would be easy to never pick up a drink again.
Back to the desire to not drink. I think two conflicting desires can simultaneously exist. Like when I have a craving and the two little people are each vying for their want. Stay sober. No, have a drink. I can equally be at home and part of me wants to go out to dinner and the other part wants to heat up something and sit in front of the tv. With powerlessness, however, I don't think there can be such conflict. It can however, exist in varying degrees. Like right now I probably if I will be completely honest think I am 50% powerless to alcohol (I wish it were 100% but again I don't know if I or anyone can ever get there.
Did any of what I just wrote make sense? Did I respond to what you were asking or did I miss your question completely?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by sfgirl
(btw, not an AA member although don't know if matters)
I am not quite sure if I get it. I for a while have wanted to quit drinking, have quit now for almost six months. So third tradition— check.
First step. Powerlessness over alcohol— that is a different issue. I struggle with that, not because I am not in AA, but because I have two little voices in my head competing. I don't know if I will ever be completely convinced that I am powerless over alcohol. I feel like each time I wrestle with a craving I have to try and revisit this issue. And it is hard. It is a continual struggle. I think step one never goes away. I mean people who are sober 15 years pick up drinks again. If you are able to admit absolute powerlessness to alcohol (and in my opinion no alcoholic is) then it would be easy to never pick up a drink again.
Back to the desire to not drink. I think two conflicting desires can simultaneously exist. Like when I have a craving and the two little people are each vying for their want. Stay sober. No, have a drink. I can equally be at home and part of me wants to go out to dinner and the other part wants to heat up something and sit in front of the tv. With powerlessness, however, I don't think there can be such conflict. It can however, exist in varying degrees. Like right now I probably if I will be completely honest think I am 50% powerless to alcohol (I wish it were 100% but again I don't know if I or anyone can ever get there.
Did any of what I just wrote make sense? Did I respond to what you were asking or did I miss your question completely?
I am not quite sure if I get it. I for a while have wanted to quit drinking, have quit now for almost six months. So third tradition— check.
First step. Powerlessness over alcohol— that is a different issue. I struggle with that, not because I am not in AA, but because I have two little voices in my head competing. I don't know if I will ever be completely convinced that I am powerless over alcohol. I feel like each time I wrestle with a craving I have to try and revisit this issue. And it is hard. It is a continual struggle. I think step one never goes away. I mean people who are sober 15 years pick up drinks again. If you are able to admit absolute powerlessness to alcohol (and in my opinion no alcoholic is) then it would be easy to never pick up a drink again.
Back to the desire to not drink. I think two conflicting desires can simultaneously exist. Like when I have a craving and the two little people are each vying for their want. Stay sober. No, have a drink. I can equally be at home and part of me wants to go out to dinner and the other part wants to heat up something and sit in front of the tv. With powerlessness, however, I don't think there can be such conflict. It can however, exist in varying degrees. Like right now I probably if I will be completely honest think I am 50% powerless to alcohol (I wish it were 100% but again I don't know if I or anyone can ever get there.
Did any of what I just wrote make sense? Did I respond to what you were asking or did I miss your question completely?
I am a recovered alcoholic-that is, I have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. I don't have cravings anymore, but it was a struggle, as you talk about, early on in my sobriety.
I am 100% powerless over alcohol once I pick up that first drink. It's the first one that will eventually kill me.
How do I know this? I had to go back out and research some more after 4 years clean/sober. I had begun to doubt that I was indeed powerless over alcohol! I was going to be a social drinker!
Now mind you, I had already become emotionally 'drunk' and spiritually sick a good 90 days before that first drink. I had become terminally unique. I quit doing a lot of the things that had kept me sober those early years, wasn't listening to the warnings my sponsor was giving me. My disease was speaking very loudly to me.
I 'thought' I would just go out one night, have one hell of a good time, get sh*tfaced, and then hop right back into recovery, right?
I even had my designated driver set up for me that night because that was the responsible thing to do, don't you know?!
That one-nighter turned into two months worth of hell, even doing cocaine *gag*, filled with overwhelming fear, shame, guilt, self-loathing, all in between the drinking binges, oh and the blackouts which I had never had prior to getting clean/sober.
Yes, I am powerless over alcohol, 100%.
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Location: San Francisco, CA
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Freedom1990—
I am not sure if that was a response to the general thread or to my post. But I realize that I may not have made myself completely clear in what I said. When I said I think I am 50% powerless over alcohol what I meant was not that I was not powerless over alcohol but that I have not completely accepted that. And I am not sure I will ever be able to fully accept "my powerlessness."
I am powerless over alcohol but to me the first step (also, again I am not in AA, but like some of the steps, so sort of take them as I see them) seems about really and truly internalizing that reality. I think that is an extreme struggle. However, maybe I was wrong in assuming that other people don't get there completely. I am currently reading this book, "Spirituality of Imperfection," and it is talking all about how humans are imperfect and can never be fully anything and I am sure that influenced what I wrote. In fact, what I was just reading was in my mind. Also another interesting tidbit from that book is that AA broke with the Oxford Group partly because of the Oxford Group's insistence on the four absolutes—absolute purity, honesty, unselfishness, and love. It was the contention with this notion of absolute or perfection. Not saying that has to apply to step one just throwing it out there because I think it is my theme of the day— "I am not perfect."
I just personally have a hard time ever seeing myself at a point where I will fully and wholly accept this powerlessness. I think that I will always have a little part of me who will think "I am cured" or some other variant. But we shall see. I just should not have assumed my experience was that of the whole.
I am not sure if that was a response to the general thread or to my post. But I realize that I may not have made myself completely clear in what I said. When I said I think I am 50% powerless over alcohol what I meant was not that I was not powerless over alcohol but that I have not completely accepted that. And I am not sure I will ever be able to fully accept "my powerlessness."
I am powerless over alcohol but to me the first step (also, again I am not in AA, but like some of the steps, so sort of take them as I see them) seems about really and truly internalizing that reality. I think that is an extreme struggle. However, maybe I was wrong in assuming that other people don't get there completely. I am currently reading this book, "Spirituality of Imperfection," and it is talking all about how humans are imperfect and can never be fully anything and I am sure that influenced what I wrote. In fact, what I was just reading was in my mind. Also another interesting tidbit from that book is that AA broke with the Oxford Group partly because of the Oxford Group's insistence on the four absolutes—absolute purity, honesty, unselfishness, and love. It was the contention with this notion of absolute or perfection. Not saying that has to apply to step one just throwing it out there because I think it is my theme of the day— "I am not perfect."
I just personally have a hard time ever seeing myself at a point where I will fully and wholly accept this powerlessness. I think that I will always have a little part of me who will think "I am cured" or some other variant. But we shall see. I just should not have assumed my experience was that of the whole.
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