Shellslove

I posted this on LostButterfly's thread as a response to the story she's been telling and the encouraging messages I've read there...whether or not you're familiar w/her thread (she's an awesome, strong gal!) this is the feeling it bought up in me, and I think it generally applies to how I've been feeling, so I wanted to post as a separate thread starter....

I envy the relationships I see here between the recovering addicts and their HP, b/c I just cannot get there. I think it's b/c I haven't commited to the na/aa thing, b/c i don't know if I believe in it all. I've been 'sober' now for going on a year...and I don't feel like a 'dry' drunk (interesting choice of words since it's always been pills for me.) What I mean is...I've changed alot in my life for the better...I've gotten rid of many triggers, people and things I know are not good for me...I've had extensive counseling, f2f group time (non 12 step) and work w/an addictionologist...things are going good...but I feel like something is missing.

I read here about how everyone has given up control to there HP, and to me...I still feel like I need to control everything and I'm doing this with my own strength and will power...I mean, is that wrong? I just don't know in my head. I can see myself trying to control situations...I have conversation after conversation where I can actually hear myself as I am controlling the flow and making things turn out the way I want them to be...and it works! It's manipulation, not necessarily in a bad way...but I go into a conversation knowing what the resolution will be because I've already decided it to be so, and know how to get it that way. I'm conflicted...what's wrong with control? But I know one day I could lose it all, come crashing down...and if I don't give it up to an HP I might be lost... I see other lost souls and recommend therapy...I suggest aa/na b/c it's worked for so many others...and I know a program of recovery is so important, b/c I wouldn't be where I am w/o mine...but I feel like a sham, b/c I myself haven't 'worked the 12 steps' and given up the control...

I'm sorry, I guess I should've started a thread on this (still thinking about cutting and pasting as I type)...but it's your thread that has actually made me admit to myself that I even care about this and have these feelings....is that crazy? It's like a breakthrough but a curse....how do you guys do it??

Sugah

We talk about "God as I understand Him," and the only problem I have with that statement is the masculine pronoun--or any pronoun. I'd rather say, "God as I understand God." I don't see how God can be reduced to human understanding, let alone to one essence or another (masculine or feminine). But I do like the metaphors we use to try to express a concept of God.

I'm going to share something that I found recently that speaks a little to why I'm okay not being in control of everything around me, and if you can take anything from it, great. If you get bored and want to skip it, I won't be upset about that, either. It speaks to my faith that we all have a Purpose if we just trust.
Now, he's talking about what he imagines heaven to be like, or non-being to be like, but for me, that's a good metaphor for who I want to be and where I want to be--playing my note, just a note in the symphony of life. Can't play it wrong because it's my note, the one intended for me. I can choose to not play at all, or to try to play separate from the composition, but one note all on its own with no other notes to play along with--unless that's the express purpose, like a Tibetan singing bowl--one note gets pretty monotonous. Besides, as Moody says at the end of his essay, "I am also a very excellent musician and no one is any better, except the artful arranger of all sounds."

I hope you find something useful in it.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Nallabelle

Hey this is a very interesting post.
I am not very active in NA either but I do go some. There really is no reason not to. Even if you dont buy into it or whatever, it will only help to go.
I am Catholic and very much so at that. Thank God I was raised with religion because I would be so ****** right now without it.
I am a very controlling person so I understand where you are coming from. Frankly I dont think there is anything wrong with what you are doing. I mean you are managing really well and its not like you arent getting any help (said you saw a therapist, etc). But I have to ask..didnt you say you were on Suboxone? Maybe Im thinking of someone else, but I can tell you that things MIGHT get a little more difficult for you once you come off because youre still getting opiates and all that. I would just have a plan in place as to what you are going to do once that day comes.

windysan

I'm too stupid to understand all that stuff. I just don't do dope.

Nallabelle

lol

Shellslove

Thank you for sharing that, Sugah. I don't know if I have the mental capacity to handle it right now (my head has exploded from work and all the overthinking!!) but I'm going to re-read it and most definetly take from it what I can. I appreciate that alot!

Correct and absolutely correct, Belle. I am on suboxone, currently tapering off (maybe that's where all the emotional thinking is coming from?!?!) but that's my biggest internal conflict right now. I know all of these thoughts and things I'm saying are tied to the idea that I am scared as 5hit to be completely free of drugs...and I don't see myself as truly being drug free this last year (b/c, I literally wasn't, as I was on the subs)

Don't get me wrong, they helped at a time that I needed them...and they bought me the time I needed to learn how to live life free of mind altering substances (I have officially stopped saying 'clean' b/c that implies an addict is 'dirty' and I don't like that. dude, no matter how many pills I took, I always smelled DELICIOUS!) Honestly, for anyone else in my position I would tell them my experience (not pushing it on them) but letting them know how great it was and how much the subs saved my life......

until now....

Now that I want off and feel I can live life w/o them...it's like...have I been fooling myself here? I'm still a g-d damn addict here, aren't I? I've sucked on a dumb little pill for 1/2 hr everyday and what do i have to show for it? Sure w/d will be easier, b/c I have my 'tools'...but do I really? Drug free is drug free...and I haven't been! I have always advocated opiate maintenance b/c it kept me from binging, calling dealers, lying, stealing, cheating...it made my life better...I was able to basically rise from the proverbial ashes, recreate the parts of my life and relationships lost....but now what? I thought by now I would be strong enough to handle withdrawal, as I've relapsed each time I've tried in the past (hence me getting on suboxone)....but I feel like I have no idea how to live w/o a crutch...I don't think. If I have such control....how am I going to get over this? I've never been able to control w/d and detox in the past so now what?? who says, just b/c I wasn't dr shopping or drugging off the streets...just b/c I've been going to my group and meeting with my dr....that I'll actually have any control over this now? I'm terrified that I'm right back to where I began.

Sorry to go off on this tangent, I think you just hit the nail on the head Belle. I've been thinking waaay too much about the HP thing and how I need to learn to give up control to something 'higher' than myself in order to overcome this....that maybe I'm a big liar for advocating 12 step programs when I haven't worked the steps myself...but maybe it's a cover up for my fear? I honestly thought I wouldn't need that and I could do it my own way...but it seems to work for so many people. I just don't think i can bring myself to stretch my beliefs enough in order to commit to na/aa...I've tried several times and I was adverse to so much of what I heard there - not the people but the ideas, teachings and general outline...how can you believe in something.....you don't believe in??? DOes that makes ANY sense? HA! and if I can't do it on my own...then how will I get through?

I feel like I can control everyone around me...but I don't know if I can control myself.

Shellslove

Oh Windy, you are so silly. Thank you for posting on my thread...I do enjoy and hope you continue but I cannot tell a lie...I want to rip your 'avatar' off the screen and defenestrate it! It gives me the heebs so bad and reminds me of my creepy suspected molester 8th grade science teacher.

And Mr. Cheeseman, if that's secretly you in there, I ain't sorry, you sooo growdy! I know you took Lauren H. to McDonald's over B group's lunch hour without asking, perv!

But I still got love for you, San!

Nallabelle

I was talking to Bear earlier and I said something to him that I think you will understand. During the entire time I was using, I had lost complete control of myself. I was spending like crazy and just lost control of everything in general. But being a control freak (thanks dad by the way) I subconciously had to control some aspect of my world, if not my own.
My two young daughters have suffered the concequences. You cannot even imagine the absolute disgust and regret I feel over what I did for them. Now dont get me wrong, they were never abused or neglected, but I micromanaged and did everything in my power to mold two girls under the age of 5 to be everything that I felt they should be. But they couldnt be. Because they are just little girls. I expected perfection out of them and I can only hope that it isnt too late to reverse the damage and I know staying clean will be the only way to do so.
I rebelled against Catholicism for a long time. What is in this for me, I thought. I stopped being able to connect. It isnt until you look into the eyes of your children that you will know the answer to that question. The traditions and spirituality of my faith has guided me to strive to be the best parent I can be and the best person as well. I would be afraid for my kids if they grew up knowing no god and what that could lead them to. Sometimes you have to stop thinking and just accept it for what it is.
Do you have any ******* idea what these last 3 weeks have been like for me? No money to buy drugs (husband took all cards and cut them up), PREGNANT and all while everyone had thought I quit at the beginning of those 3 weeks. I had no choice. I had to do it. I wanted to do it, but I needed the kick in the ass of knowing I was out of options. I never thought I would do it. I fought it and fought it everyday until I lost. And won. I cant believe I am typing this opiate free. I swear to you, if I can get through the w/d you can too. Youve already learned to live without it, now you just gotta get over the flu for a couple weeks and keep doing what youre doing.
The reason suboxone did not work for me and I relapsed is because I didnt do what you are doing right now. Ok so you dont like NA. Thats ok. Do I think you should give it another try? Maybe, it wont hurt. But you are using other ways to deal with your addiction and thats ok too.
There is no turning back now. Get yourself as low as possible in your tapering. I would even go to every other day and every three days. No matter what though you can do it and we are here for you.

whiskerkissed

When I first went into NA I was very put back by this notion of needing a God of my understanding. What I quickly realized this was not a religious connotation, but rather a spiritual one. What I have also come to understand as I keep working the NA program going through my step work is that this emptiness what I could only describe as a black hole in my soul was a spiritual bankruptcy. I had a soul eater that was stronger than my ability to function without trying to fill it with many obsessive-compulsive behaviors trying to fill a hole that had no bottom - from dope and drink to crafts and video games.

I didn't believe there was anything in the world for me. There was a God for everyone else, but I had been abandoned. Why else would such harm come to a 14 year old who screamed out loud after years of abuse - and not even the neighbors in the apt. complex came.

I'm still a work in progress as far as coming into a conscious contact with my HP. It's simply a personal power greater than myself - and stronger than my disease. For months I simply acted "as if". That eventually turned into a "maybe is" and because of the conscious way I look at things in my program now looking for the way things are working in my life that I cannot think in any other way than that there "definitely is". I'm big on fate and karma, but I also believe things happen that are guided by something bigger than myself.

Mostly I see this stuff in hindsight. Occasionally things completely blast through my thoughts like a freight train as they unfold more dramatically...but I am learning to see this and I feel less of that soul eater I first came into the rooms with. This loving and caring God of my understanding is taking over - though very slowly it seems at times. I have to keep working at it. This is not something I can just ask of once in awhile. I sometimes meditate and hit my knees every morning and every night - often through the day when my desire turns into full-blown fiending over dope. I often talk like I would to another person, but my morning and night prayers are more humbling.

As for turning it all over to this HP - I'm not very good at it yet. As I said - I'm a work in progress. I hope when I finish my step work I will have a much stronger contact with my HP.

I don't think you're necessarily a liar for advocating 12-step programs when you haven't had the experience of working one yourself. They do work for many, many people. You can see by reading on the forums how they help, but I do think that unless one actually works a program their intentions - as well intended as they are - don't pack much punch.

I didn't think I needed anyone outside of myself for a whole lot of years. I have 34 yrs of using being me and thought I was quite successful for a long time in NOT using. I was so very wrong. And I cannot do this alone. I need a foundation and structure in my life and NA has given that to me. All I need to do is follow suggestions.... Through those suggestions I have found an HP...something I never thought possible.

Sugah - that was beautiful metaphor! I would say Moody has a bit of an ego...( )...but he put the feel into words in a way not many can.

aasharon90

Growing up Catholic, my religious
beliefs and faith in a HP or God of
my understanding is just that.

As a child going thru verbal and
physical abuse with no friends
or family members on my side ,
with the exception of my dad,
I turned to Jesus, My Lord, so
very often for comfort.

I don't blame Him for anything
Ive gone thru, even tho there
were many time I didnt not
understand and would say...
Why Me......

All that I have gone thru was to
get me to where I am today. To
be sober and to follow His Will
for me and not my own.

Today my soul purpose in life
is to help others achieve sobriety
by sharing my own ESH with them.

windysan

I went to Catholic elementary skool. Cured me of religion at an early age.

kj3880

It doesn't have to be complicated.

When I reached bottom, I knew I needed something to fill up the hole in me. Drugs stopped working. Men stopped working. The hole was God-shaped.

I couldn't even think about God at first when I entered recovery. I was spiritually bankrupt.

So I did something real simple. I raised my eyes and said at the end of a meeting when others were praying "God, help me to believe in You." And He/She did.

My faith has increased since then. Sometimes I have doubts, but I understand that even priests and rabbis have doubts at times. People don't have perfect faith.

Here's an idea: If you can't get it for now, you may borrow my HP for now!

Pray with me now please: "Higher Power, please give our friend Shell faith in You. She is seeking you to come into her life. Amen."

Love,
KJ

Timebuster

A few interesting things I learn from working the program of NA and from my Sponsor. You lie once, the next lie becomes much easier. You steal once, the next time it becomes much easier. You cheat on the one you love once, the next time you don’t think twice. The next time you go to the store and get more change back then what you suppose to get and don’t give it back. Well, the next time it happens it becomes much easier to walk out of the store without feeling guilty. When you hold on to guilt and your shoulders become heaver and heaver. You get my drift here.

When I found the courage to surrender my will over to a Power greater than myself. After doing so, the journey of self-discovery, enlightenment, awareness, and spiritual growth commenced. With this new found discovery of feelings I was able to sit down and take action and honestly write a gut wrenching inventory. The fear, pain, sadness, regrets and past guilt were lifted from that deep hole of my past wrong doings. That life is now filled with serenity, clarity, love, personal growth, self-improvement and guilt free. I have made my amends to the best of my ability to my past.

In recovery I recognize that the rewards of integrity, esteem and a guilt-free conscience outweigh the temporary relief that the old behaviors could bring. Although our personal program for living differs from one to a another, the NA program gives us a set of spiritual principles that work. Over the years, these principles have withstood the personal tests of hundreds of thousands of addicts. Those who helped us have asked only that we help others in return. This is what we do here. First-time situations are the hardest for us to deal with because our minds quickly revert to the old way of thinking. It becomes a debate in our head over recovery on one hand and addiction on the other. Both are so powerful that it's easy to lose sight of self. Before “I” came to NA, “I” never even had a chance because “I” never saw anything but addiction. I to been to many funerals in my recovery life. I would hate to have the guilt of another.Today I learned how to be humble, to regain freedom from pride and arrogance.

I have heard it said many times....
Religion is for people who want to avoid going to hell,
Spirituality is for those who have already been there.

Ivan

whiskerkissed

I have this written on a sticky note at my pc...

Tish28

Shell, maybe I've missed this, but do you have a sponser?
Perhaps that would help you with the H.P. concept.
I personally can understand Windy - I did the same and it doesn't hurt me.
Today I am happier than I ever have been, I replace God by
Good Orderly Direction. thanks to Bear, and it works for me.
What matters is to stop using and to learn about life and what you want it to be -
that is just IMHO.

Nallabelle

Ok I get offended when it comes to what I consider rude comments about Christianity so can we stop the ******** now
Shell are you getting some clarity now? What are your thoughts on everyone's responses?

Shellslove

hey guys - I just want to quickly say a quick thank you for reading and posting and you are all awesome. Work is craaazy today, so I posted this uber long mssg on another thread this morning and don't have time to post on mine So thank you all and I promise I haven't 'emotionally poured' on y'all and ran...I will def read your responses tonight and let you know my thoughts. I haven't gone through them all yet but I saw yours above Belle - uh oh? offended? I hope I didn't say anything wrong!

Just to lay it out I was raised jewish and followed the traditions and culture, mostly for my family, then b/c it made me feel comfortable and was nice to have something that felt like 'home.' My mother got sick and passed away when I was 16, and I was of course already going through the rebellious teen phase, and clearly didn't know my toe from my nose...so things got confusing. I don't really care to label my religion or faith now, but I will say I'm open to any and all....whatever gives you stability and gets you through the day works for me. And I'm willing to listen to opinions coming from any angle...if we were all the same it would be boring. I guess the problem is I haven't made this about g-d or spirituality...for me it's something I need to find in myself that I haven't yet, and then I hope the rest will fall into place. Okay, I'll write later, promise! thanks guys!

p.s. 2nd day on nicotine patch trying reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly hard not to go out for a smoke. not helping, grrr!

Nallabelle

Shell you have to try chantix

Shellslove

Yeah? I've heard mix reviews...some say great, some say eh, some say terrible. I work in a law environment and once the ? of 'settlement' came up dealing w/chantix, class action and 'suicidal ideation' - we've been getting like 780 calls a day. I don't usually buy into the BS and most of the people call at like 2:30 on Tuesday and I can hear Springer in the background (hey - no judgement, I love me some Springer, but could you turn the tv down first?) Anyways - i thought I'd try the patch but I'm getting all hot/cold sweaty and nervous. I say I've got a 50/50 shot of this being from w/d or the patch itself...who knows anymore?! Belle, you've tried Chantix w/good results?

Nallabelle

Well I would say out of all the things my husband and I used to quit smoking, Chantix was BY FAR the best. 2nd would be the gum but get it on ebay.
Chantix aint cheap but it works and its worth it. Dont believe everything you hear. Believe me. The only advice I have is if you get it, take it exactly as you are supposed to and after you quit you are supposed to continue taking it for like two months. Big mistake if you stop taking it too early.
I did start smoking again two years later when I started using pills.
Ironic I just made a post on the quit smoking board because its time to quit yet again. We can do it together.