Are Relapses Acceptable?
Too far from the beach
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 387
Are Relapses Acceptable?
Classical just made a real good point in his previous post about how relapses are just not acceptable. This led me to start this new thread.
Usually when someone on the boards says they relapsed we try to give as much support as we can. I try to tell folks "just brush yourself off, keep your chin up and move on." I hope this helps but....classical made a good point there. Relapsing is disastrous and not acceptable. I am confused about the best reponse.
Here is what I am asking. If one of you relapses, what kind of response is best? What can we write to help avoid another one. How about some input?
Usually when someone on the boards says they relapsed we try to give as much support as we can. I try to tell folks "just brush yourself off, keep your chin up and move on." I hope this helps but....classical made a good point there. Relapsing is disastrous and not acceptable. I am confused about the best reponse.
Here is what I am asking. If one of you relapses, what kind of response is best? What can we write to help avoid another one. How about some input?
Next stop: real life
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 990
I think that's a really, really dangerous way to phrase it. I've had the good fortune of not relapsing, so I don't know what it's like... But I'd imagine those who have are pretty darn fragile afterwards. Is telling them what they've done is "not acceptable" really helpful? Not desirable, sure, something to avoid... But not something to be shunned for.
I realize there are a few chronic, attention-getting relapsers in the world... But I've seen very few here on SR. Let's not knock other people down.
I realize there are a few chronic, attention-getting relapsers in the world... But I've seen very few here on SR. Let's not knock other people down.
Resident
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,150
In my opinion quitting drinking is like a kid riding a bike.
Usually when someone comes on here that has relapsed they are genuinely remoresful because they have slipped.
Do they need to be scolded or encouraged?
If a kid falls off the bike when learning do you yell at him or hug him and get him back on the bike so he will learn from his mistake and succeed?
It depends on your understanding of motivation.
I know what I believe but I don't know the answer.
Usually when someone comes on here that has relapsed they are genuinely remoresful because they have slipped.
Do they need to be scolded or encouraged?
If a kid falls off the bike when learning do you yell at him or hug him and get him back on the bike so he will learn from his mistake and succeed?
It depends on your understanding of motivation.
I know what I believe but I don't know the answer.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Attica, MI
Posts: 465
I think it's hard to tell what one person or another needs in response to a relapse...unless you REALLY know that person eh? I do know that the response, in whatever form it comes in should include in it's message....get up from your fall...fight!
In raising 2 children that are so totally different, each of them had to be taught some things is a different manner according to their own personal bents....but with the same basic message's. Same message, the one you know to be true, with differing attack angles for different people.
I say, when you don't know the person well enough, it's good to err on the side of caution and be encouraging in a gentle manner....without Incouraging disasterous behaviour...
Just so everyone who is here and cares knows....if I fall down....pick me up with a bull dozer and whack me across the face with a sledge hammer....seems as though it's the way I learn best....
In raising 2 children that are so totally different, each of them had to be taught some things is a different manner according to their own personal bents....but with the same basic message's. Same message, the one you know to be true, with differing attack angles for different people.
I say, when you don't know the person well enough, it's good to err on the side of caution and be encouraging in a gentle manner....without Incouraging disasterous behaviour...
Just so everyone who is here and cares knows....if I fall down....pick me up with a bull dozer and whack me across the face with a sledge hammer....seems as though it's the way I learn best....
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: HIGHLANDS
Posts: 121
you are all wrong. and quiting drinking is not at all like riding a bike. man. relapses are a necassary and very real part of the recovery process. most people will relapse at least 7 times in the course of recovery. and its important that they dont feel like a loser and that they relize this and keep trying.
you know only a very small fraction of people will ever be sucsessful at recovery. about 7-13% of people at best. and thats from AA's own documentation. you have to really want it alot. me i think its overrated myself, but thats just me. for me its alot easier and truer to my self to be myself and to be free and to enjoy all the good things in life.
you know only a very small fraction of people will ever be sucsessful at recovery. about 7-13% of people at best. and thats from AA's own documentation. you have to really want it alot. me i think its overrated myself, but thats just me. for me its alot easier and truer to my self to be myself and to be free and to enjoy all the good things in life.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,782
I understand the different opinions here, as I've just relapsed recently and am struggling with forgiving myself and moving on. Relapse isn't a 'necessary' part of recovery, but it does happen. All I can say is to learn from it and move forward again. Some of us 'get it' the first time around, others learn a harder lesson and take longer to 'get it right'. The scary thing about relapse, at least for me, is that I hope and pray I don't do it again as I may not survive another one. I never know when my luck will run out and don't want to find out the hard way. I've had too many hard lessons and should be smarter by now, I can only take it one day at a time, so will only promise myself I'll be sober today.
I don't think anyone here is 'right' or 'wrong', just different perspectives on the same problems and ways to solve those problems.
I don't think anyone here is 'right' or 'wrong', just different perspectives on the same problems and ways to solve those problems.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
For me, relapse isn't an option.
I realize that a lot of people who come here haven't necessarily had a lot of serious consequences to their alcoholism/addictions.
It's hard to wrap your brain around the fact that the disease kills when you're in the early stages, you know?
I had an uncle on my mother's side who died in a car accident on a mountain pass in Colorado many many years ago. He was drunk, and so was the driver.
They were in a convertible, and the top was up, but that doesn't afford much protection when the car flips over.
His jaw was literally ripped off when the car flipped and before it came to a stop.
He lived for a couple of hours at the hospital, and then died.
I can't bring myself to tell someone to dust themselves off and give it a try again when they relapse. I'm not going to browbeat them either. I just have nothing to say because I know people die every day from a relapse, and it isn't a game.
Over the years, I've gotten a pretty good feel for someone who relapses, is fortunate enough to make it back, and finally believes it is life or death with their entire being. Those are the ones I respond to.
I realize that a lot of people who come here haven't necessarily had a lot of serious consequences to their alcoholism/addictions.
It's hard to wrap your brain around the fact that the disease kills when you're in the early stages, you know?
I had an uncle on my mother's side who died in a car accident on a mountain pass in Colorado many many years ago. He was drunk, and so was the driver.
They were in a convertible, and the top was up, but that doesn't afford much protection when the car flips over.
His jaw was literally ripped off when the car flipped and before it came to a stop.
He lived for a couple of hours at the hospital, and then died.
I can't bring myself to tell someone to dust themselves off and give it a try again when they relapse. I'm not going to browbeat them either. I just have nothing to say because I know people die every day from a relapse, and it isn't a game.
Over the years, I've gotten a pretty good feel for someone who relapses, is fortunate enough to make it back, and finally believes it is life or death with their entire being. Those are the ones I respond to.
Living in sobriety
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,870
you are all wrong
who knows whats wrong or right? We only have our ESH. I for one do not judge anyone.....could be me tomorrow. I am lucky enough not to have relasped in eleven years. But i have helped many people who have. trying to learn from our experience and maybe patterns that led back to a drink is what I focus on. We all have different paths to follow.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Attica, MI
Posts: 465
MROBI, respectfully.....not everyone on this thread is wrong. When you begin a post like that, without regard to well thought out feelings of others on the thread...you run the risk of not getting your thoughts across before people disregard them.
People on here are learning and caring from and for each other, each in their own ways. Sharing well thought out ideas is a part of this process of learning.....saying everyone is wrong out right for what they think in that manner is unecessary.
You can get your point across without disregarding others I think.
peace
People on here are learning and caring from and for each other, each in their own ways. Sharing well thought out ideas is a part of this process of learning.....saying everyone is wrong out right for what they think in that manner is unecessary.
You can get your point across without disregarding others I think.
peace
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by MROBI 
you are all wrong. and quiting drinking is not at all like riding a bike. man. relapses are a necassary and very real part of the recovery process. most people will relapse at least 7 times in the course of recovery. and its important that they dont feel like a loser and that they relize this and keep trying.
you know only a very small fraction of people will ever be sucsessful at recovery. about 7-13% of people at best. and thats from AA's own documentation. you have to really want it alot. me i think its overrated myself, but thats just me. for me its alot easier and truer to my self to be myself and to be free and to enjoy all the good things in life.
you know only a very small fraction of people will ever be sucsessful at recovery. about 7-13% of people at best. and thats from AA's own documentation. you have to really want it alot. me i think its overrated myself, but thats just me. for me its alot easier and truer to my self to be myself and to be free and to enjoy all the good things in life.
Wednesday night at my home group there was 100% recovery sitting around the tables.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 2,548
When someone relaspes....including myself in the begining.
They normally are full of guilt and shame....that guilt and shame will sometimes keep them "out there".....never to return to sobriety.
The important thing is to accept them back to the fold with compassion and acceptance...
The important thing is to help that person pull away from that shame and guilt.........
To live in the solution rather than the problem.
Compassion.........acceptance.......empathy....... .
Exactly what was is given to me..........and i went on to stay sober.
8 years and 5 months......because of the love and acceptance.. i moved on from my relaspe......
Thats my take...........trucker
They normally are full of guilt and shame....that guilt and shame will sometimes keep them "out there".....never to return to sobriety.
The important thing is to accept them back to the fold with compassion and acceptance...
The important thing is to help that person pull away from that shame and guilt.........
To live in the solution rather than the problem.
Compassion.........acceptance.......empathy....... .
Exactly what was is given to me..........and i went on to stay sober.
8 years and 5 months......because of the love and acceptance.. i moved on from my relaspe......
Thats my take...........trucker
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Well....
I did return to the bottle after I decided to stop.
...it took me 4 years and lots of false starts
before I finally quit.
I often share here how I stopped drinking.
Hoefully it gives someone the assistance they need.
I rarely use the terms...relapse or slip...I perfer to think
people drink again because they have not yet
figured out how to not drink
And Yes! you too can be a sobriety success!
I did return to the bottle after I decided to stop.
...it took me 4 years and lots of false starts
before I finally quit.
I often share here how I stopped drinking.
Hoefully it gives someone the assistance they need.I rarely use the terms...relapse or slip...I perfer to think
people drink again because they have not yet
figured out how to not drink
And Yes! you too can be a sobriety success!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by trucker
The important thing is to accept them back to the fold with compassion and acceptance...
The important thing is to help that person pull away from that shame and guilt.........
To live in the solution rather than the problem.
The important thing is to help that person pull away from that shame and guilt.........
To live in the solution rather than the problem.
Thank you so much for the reminder of what it was like for me too. :ghug
Karma Amputee
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Among The Living
Posts: 769
Are Relapses Acceptable?
Not for me personally, but I understand that it happens all the time to people in recovery and I understand that if it does happen, the struggle to get sober gets even harder but must continue to be fought; so knowing this, a relapse is totally unacceptable for me.
I can accept the imperfections of others just fine though.
Not for me personally, but I understand that it happens all the time to people in recovery and I understand that if it does happen, the struggle to get sober gets even harder but must continue to be fought; so knowing this, a relapse is totally unacceptable for me.
I can accept the imperfections of others just fine though.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Littleton, Co.
Posts: 3,317
I have been on these boards long enough to know that the majority of our members support others when they relapse. There is no need to shame them; they are already feeling guilty enough. This is a time when these people are in need of a shoulder to lean on... not a brush off.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Relapse is absolutely NOT a requirment to get sober.
It does happen - for alcoholics or drug addicts to not be able to stay stopped is the nature of the problem itself!
Are they acceptable? I think that is along the same lines as asking if the sunrise is acceptable - it's going to happen...
It does happen - for alcoholics or drug addicts to not be able to stay stopped is the nature of the problem itself!
Are they acceptable? I think that is along the same lines as asking if the sunrise is acceptable - it's going to happen...
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,955
For many people, drug abuse becomes chronic, with relapses possible even after long periods of abstinence. In fact, relapse to drug abuse occurs at rates similar to those for other well-characterized, chronic medical illnesses such as diabetes, hypertension, and asthma. As a chronic, recurring illness, addiction may require repeated episodes of treatment before sustained abstinence is achieved. Through treatment tailored to individual needs, people with drug addiction can recover and lead productive lives.
Source:National Institute on Drug Abuse
Source:National Institute on Drug Abuse
Relapse rates from addiction (40 to 60%) can be compared to those suffering from other chronic illnesses such as Type I diabetes (30 - 50%), Hypertension (50-70%) and asthma (50 to 70%). Drug addiction should be treated like any other chronic illness, with relapse indicating the need for renewed intervention
Source: McLellan et al, JAMA 284: 1698 - 1695, 2000
Source: McLellan et al, JAMA 284: 1698 - 1695, 2000
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montana
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by MROBI
you are all wrong.
Because someone has a different perception of recovery than you, you can make a sweeping statement such as that?
Good for you MROBI that you have found what works for you. I genuinely feel glad for you.
I would suggest however, that perception is reality--and if a recovering person feels it is like riding a bike--that is reality to them. So--to them--your perception would be wrong.
This negativity sucks, and it is more and more prevalent on this board.
Re-reading what I've written here--I almost deleted it. It is a lot easier to just ghost around, and let the negativity go--but I decided this time I'm just not going to sit idle and not say anything.
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