Are Relapses Acceptable?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 63
For me, I felt a lot better when Carol posted in one of my threads that she had experienced "false starts"...
If someone who is successful now encourages me by saying they weren't successful first time as well then I feel encouraged to keep trying.
For me it's part of letting go of the "all or nothing", "100% success or 100% failure" attitude. That's the attitude that makes me give up trying because I fell over.
If someone who is successful now encourages me by saying they weren't successful first time as well then I feel encouraged to keep trying.
For me it's part of letting go of the "all or nothing", "100% success or 100% failure" attitude. That's the attitude that makes me give up trying because I fell over.
Karma Amputee
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Among The Living
Posts: 769
Originally Posted by Wombat05 
Frankly--this is the kind of writing/talk that pretty much makes me want to just shake my head and walk away from this site.
Because someone has a different perception of recovery than you, you can make a sweeping statement such as that?
Good for you MROBI that you have found what works for you. I genuinely feel glad for you.
I would suggest however, that perception is reality--and if a recovering person feels it is like riding a bike--that is reality to them. So--to them--your perception would be wrong.
This negativity sucks, and it is more and more prevalent on this board.
Re-reading what I've written here--I almost deleted it. It is a lot easier to just ghost around, and let the negativity go--but I decided this time I'm just not going to sit idle and not say anything.
Because someone has a different perception of recovery than you, you can make a sweeping statement such as that?
Good for you MROBI that you have found what works for you. I genuinely feel glad for you.
I would suggest however, that perception is reality--and if a recovering person feels it is like riding a bike--that is reality to them. So--to them--your perception would be wrong.
This negativity sucks, and it is more and more prevalent on this board.
Re-reading what I've written here--I almost deleted it. It is a lot easier to just ghost around, and let the negativity go--but I decided this time I'm just not going to sit idle and not say anything.
Moving out of Limbo
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Today
Posts: 343
If something has already happened, such as a relapse, you have to accept it. That is the only way to move on.
What we don't have to accept is relapsing right now, because that is all we have control over- the present moment.
So, when someone relapses, they need support. That doesn't mean we are supporting their relapse, that means we are supporting them. I think recovery gives people an opportunity to finally distinguish actions from the person.
What we don't have to accept is relapsing right now, because that is all we have control over- the present moment.
So, when someone relapses, they need support. That doesn't mean we are supporting their relapse, that means we are supporting them. I think recovery gives people an opportunity to finally distinguish actions from the person.
Thriving sober since 12/18/08
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,115
I can only speak for myself (as we all can only do..), but if I drank, I would never want anyone to be accepting of it. Granted, I would beat myself up enough.. but it's NOT ok. We are here for recovery.
I hate the word 'relapse' or 'slip' because it sounds like I'm a victim, like something happened to me. No, I drank. I made a concerted conscious effort to drink. Period. Would I still want support to get back on my feet? sure. Will anyone here make or break my sobriety? Hell no.
I dunno.. I don't take part in the 'coddling' as it's called. I don't get that close to enabling. I can't do it.
I will ALWAYS support people here that are having a hard time, as long as the effort is stronger on their part to do what they can to make better choices.
I don't read a lot on these boards, because I don't agree with a lot of approaches.. but I have my own way to filter that out anyways.. people can certainly post what they want, say what they want, react how they want, whatever. I'll read, post, ignore, .. it's up to me.
I don't think anyone here would say a relaps is "acceptable", but hey.. I keep getting surprised lately.
I hate the word 'relapse' or 'slip' because it sounds like I'm a victim, like something happened to me. No, I drank. I made a concerted conscious effort to drink. Period. Would I still want support to get back on my feet? sure. Will anyone here make or break my sobriety? Hell no.
I dunno.. I don't take part in the 'coddling' as it's called. I don't get that close to enabling. I can't do it.
I will ALWAYS support people here that are having a hard time, as long as the effort is stronger on their part to do what they can to make better choices.
I don't read a lot on these boards, because I don't agree with a lot of approaches.. but I have my own way to filter that out anyways.. people can certainly post what they want, say what they want, react how they want, whatever. I'll read, post, ignore, .. it's up to me.
I don't think anyone here would say a relaps is "acceptable", but hey.. I keep getting surprised lately.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 679
I think a lot of people here have said a lot of good things about relapse. I like the idea of "false starts" by CarolD. I think masseyman has a good point in relapses and reactions to being very subjective and different for each person. A relapse really is different for each person. For someone at a certain time in recovery it can just be a momentary slip up from which you can stand up dust yourself off and go back to your sobriety somewhat strengthened in resolve. For others it can lead into benders or back into full blown using for years. Or as someone mentioned, one relapse can lead to disastrous consequences or death.
For me, to term relapse unacceptable is to say that my recovery and sobriety must be perfect. I am completely unwilling to do this because it is against everything that I am trying to learn in recovery. Recovery is learning that I can be imperfect. However, this is not to say that relapse is something that is okay, like, hey, I am going to a b-day party tonight and why not have one drink because hey I can be imperfect in my sobriety. No, my goal is sobriety but if relapse which is what I aim with all my strength to avoid happens, I will accept it and move on with recovery and sobriety (hopefully—in fact it did happen to me two months ago for a night).
I do think everyone has to take their own stance on relapses. They are, however, part of the process. But in the immediate aftermath of a relapse to feel that you have failed completely and have the failure reinforced seems to me that it would just exacerbate the need/want to use to numb feelings. This is why I think that support is generally a good policy for people who have just fallen off the wagon— it seems they will more likely get back on if they don't feel ashamed of falling off in the first place. Just my two cents.
For me, to term relapse unacceptable is to say that my recovery and sobriety must be perfect. I am completely unwilling to do this because it is against everything that I am trying to learn in recovery. Recovery is learning that I can be imperfect. However, this is not to say that relapse is something that is okay, like, hey, I am going to a b-day party tonight and why not have one drink because hey I can be imperfect in my sobriety. No, my goal is sobriety but if relapse which is what I aim with all my strength to avoid happens, I will accept it and move on with recovery and sobriety (hopefully—in fact it did happen to me two months ago for a night).
I do think everyone has to take their own stance on relapses. They are, however, part of the process. But in the immediate aftermath of a relapse to feel that you have failed completely and have the failure reinforced seems to me that it would just exacerbate the need/want to use to numb feelings. This is why I think that support is generally a good policy for people who have just fallen off the wagon— it seems they will more likely get back on if they don't feel ashamed of falling off in the first place. Just my two cents.
Next stop: real life
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 990
Originally Posted by flutter
I don't think anyone here would say a relaps is "acceptable", but hey.. I keep getting surprised lately.
Relapse isn't a necessary part of recovery, but it does happen. I just don't think we should turn on our own just because they've relapsed.
I don't mean to make any absolute statements, this is all just my take on the issue.
[edit]SFgirl, if I could thank your post more than once I would.[/edit]
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
This is a tough topic, and really depends a lot on the context of, "unacceptable." Here are some of my thoughts.
1. Relapse is NOT necessary and NOT a part of recovery. Relapse is part of addiction.
2. To a degree, relapse is a choice, only so far as the first drink. Though once I have that first one, I can't stop. I'll further qualify this statement by saying I've relapsed plenty of times and have no one to blame but myself. Each time I made the decision to pick up again, a decision which could have gone the other way.
3. Relapse may not be acceptable, but that does not make it wholly unacceptable.
I've heard it said that the relapse happens before one starts drinking again. As in, one makes the decision to drink again, but hasn't put the bottle to their lips yet. Once that first drink hits the lips, the relapse it over. Now you're using again. I'm a believer in that logic.
I think if I were to put the unacceptable tag anywhere, it would be during that time between when one makes the decision to drink and one actually takes the first drink. And if it were another A who was in that sort of limbo state, there's this really weird balance of what action (if any) need be taken by others. Once the alcoholic picks up again, there's nothing that can be done. They are using again. But there is that window in between.
This may start to go a little off topic here... stick with me.
In Al-Anon, the idea is that you can't control other people. One someone makes up their mind to drink, there can be no controlling them. And I conceed that it is very true. I know once I decide to drink, there's little that can stop me. But where do we as fellow alcoholics within the fellowship draw the line. Am I going out of bounds by doing everything in my power (within reason) in order to keep a fellow A from relapsing. My AA friends and I have talked about this often and there's really a mixed bag. And then where does the "anacceptable" part fit into all of this?
Anyway, back to the point. I think that it's a very important aspect of AA in that any time someone falls off the wagon, they are always welcome back. The primary purpose is to carry the message. How do you carry the message to someone who has been ostracized for relapsing. Keep in mind too that when someone returns to AA after a relapse, they are still seeking help from AA. And I want the hand of AA to always be there, for that I'm responsible.
And all of the above is assuming everyone involved in a given situation is in AA. I know that's not the case on SR - not everyone here is in AA. I can only give my thoughts from an AA perspective since that's the only thing that has worked for me. I haven't had any meaningful sobriery with any other method.
1. Relapse is NOT necessary and NOT a part of recovery. Relapse is part of addiction.
2. To a degree, relapse is a choice, only so far as the first drink. Though once I have that first one, I can't stop. I'll further qualify this statement by saying I've relapsed plenty of times and have no one to blame but myself. Each time I made the decision to pick up again, a decision which could have gone the other way.
3. Relapse may not be acceptable, but that does not make it wholly unacceptable.
I've heard it said that the relapse happens before one starts drinking again. As in, one makes the decision to drink again, but hasn't put the bottle to their lips yet. Once that first drink hits the lips, the relapse it over. Now you're using again. I'm a believer in that logic.
I think if I were to put the unacceptable tag anywhere, it would be during that time between when one makes the decision to drink and one actually takes the first drink. And if it were another A who was in that sort of limbo state, there's this really weird balance of what action (if any) need be taken by others. Once the alcoholic picks up again, there's nothing that can be done. They are using again. But there is that window in between.
This may start to go a little off topic here... stick with me.
In Al-Anon, the idea is that you can't control other people. One someone makes up their mind to drink, there can be no controlling them. And I conceed that it is very true. I know once I decide to drink, there's little that can stop me. But where do we as fellow alcoholics within the fellowship draw the line. Am I going out of bounds by doing everything in my power (within reason) in order to keep a fellow A from relapsing. My AA friends and I have talked about this often and there's really a mixed bag. And then where does the "anacceptable" part fit into all of this?
Anyway, back to the point. I think that it's a very important aspect of AA in that any time someone falls off the wagon, they are always welcome back. The primary purpose is to carry the message. How do you carry the message to someone who has been ostracized for relapsing. Keep in mind too that when someone returns to AA after a relapse, they are still seeking help from AA. And I want the hand of AA to always be there, for that I'm responsible.
And all of the above is assuming everyone involved in a given situation is in AA. I know that's not the case on SR - not everyone here is in AA. I can only give my thoughts from an AA perspective since that's the only thing that has worked for me. I haven't had any meaningful sobriery with any other method.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,429
Acceptable is needlessly judgemental in my opinion.
No matter what you think, they happen
I try never to forget that I was a serial relapser for 15 years - at least once a week...usually every 2-3 days after I'd try to stop.
I've been hard on some here - generally because I knew them and I didn't want them to die - and I've supported others when they felt hopeless...
I may have done better in hindsight, but it was what it was...and all my friends are still here
D
No matter what you think, they happen
I try never to forget that I was a serial relapser for 15 years - at least once a week...usually every 2-3 days after I'd try to stop.
I've been hard on some here - generally because I knew them and I didn't want them to die - and I've supported others when they felt hopeless...
I may have done better in hindsight, but it was what it was...and all my friends are still here
D
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 6,608
My opinion is some people (self included) are their own worst critics or enemies. Beating themselves up over and over again until they feel they don't deserve sobriety or feeling good. For me to add to that punishing ego would be not helpful to say the least. I would treat them as I wish they would treat themselves, which would be gentle loving care. It works better with me then a 2 x 4.
On the other hand, some people want the cake handed to them and make no effort and its pretty obvious. Talking to them I would be using another voice, which wouldn't be beating them up but bringing the reality into the picture. We can't do it for you, but we can help. Recovery takes determination and effort and you can be given the tools, but we can't make you use them.
Different strokes for different folks. As far as is relapse acceptable, I would say that we are human and who am I to judge whether it is or isn't acceptable. I am not up to the task of deeming a relapse as acceptable or not. I think that authority lies elsewhere. I would rather be the healer then the judge.
On the other hand, some people want the cake handed to them and make no effort and its pretty obvious. Talking to them I would be using another voice, which wouldn't be beating them up but bringing the reality into the picture. We can't do it for you, but we can help. Recovery takes determination and effort and you can be given the tools, but we can't make you use them.
Different strokes for different folks. As far as is relapse acceptable, I would say that we are human and who am I to judge whether it is or isn't acceptable. I am not up to the task of deeming a relapse as acceptable or not. I think that authority lies elsewhere. I would rather be the healer then the judge.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Alcoholism is a deadly serious disease (illness - whatever you want to call it). People are going to relapse - I know I did time and again. In and out of treatment centers - even when things were going great, I would drink even when I really really didn't want to - and I could have passed a lie detector that I wouldn't drink that die. That is what is so utterly baffling about it all. I don't want to drink, I swear off, I go to meetings, I call fellows - and I wind up drunk. Acceptable? I don't know - but it's the reality of this thing.
One thing I will not do when someone relapses is allow them to blame it on anyone or anything else - face the truth "you said you were done, and you drank or used anyways"...regardless of what life throws at someone. I am not of the school of "it's ok, feel better", basically loving someone back into life where they think it's ok.
The last time I drank - I called a guy from AA. He was not suprised that I drank (he did not know me) - that is what alcoholics DO. But he did talk to me about what happened, and we met up. Without going into too much detail (it is here on the site if you are really interested) - he offered me what he had done. If I wanted it - fine, if not - I was more than free to pursue other avenues.
Sometimes I come across as abrasive or mean - but that isn't it. I just don't give room for people to get away from the primary problem (it is never life circumstance that dictates a relapse - I have been through hell without drinking). All the times I relapsed - there is one person that I need to look at, me.
One thing I will not do when someone relapses is allow them to blame it on anyone or anything else - face the truth "you said you were done, and you drank or used anyways"...regardless of what life throws at someone. I am not of the school of "it's ok, feel better", basically loving someone back into life where they think it's ok.
The last time I drank - I called a guy from AA. He was not suprised that I drank (he did not know me) - that is what alcoholics DO. But he did talk to me about what happened, and we met up. Without going into too much detail (it is here on the site if you are really interested) - he offered me what he had done. If I wanted it - fine, if not - I was more than free to pursue other avenues.
Sometimes I come across as abrasive or mean - but that isn't it. I just don't give room for people to get away from the primary problem (it is never life circumstance that dictates a relapse - I have been through hell without drinking). All the times I relapsed - there is one person that I need to look at, me.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,924
Originally Posted by sugErspun
Relapse is absolutely NOT a requirment to get sober.
It does happen - for alcoholics or drug addicts to not be able to stay stopped is the nature of the problem itself!
Are they acceptable? I think that is along the same lines as asking if the sunrise is acceptable - it's going to happen...
It does happen - for alcoholics or drug addicts to not be able to stay stopped is the nature of the problem itself!
Are they acceptable? I think that is along the same lines as asking if the sunrise is acceptable - it's going to happen...
A new way of thinking and living is required to find recovery; here is one way that I personally know works.
"At the hospital I was separated from alcohol for the last time. Treatment seemed wise, for I showed signs of delirium tremens. I have not had a drink since.
There I humbly offered myself to God, as I then understood Him, to do with me as He would. I placed myself unreservedly under His care and direction. I admitted for the first time that of myself I was nothing; that without Him I was lost. I ruthlessly faced my sins and became willing to have my new-found Friend take them away, root and branch."
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 123
I am not a great thinker, and I am a little turned around, confused concerning this topic and some of the discussion.
My question is: If you believe that a relapse is unacceptable, AND you relapse, where does that leave you? Do you continue drinking because you have failed?
I'm not trying to be a smartass, just trying to understand!
JT
My question is: If you believe that a relapse is unacceptable, AND you relapse, where does that leave you? Do you continue drinking because you have failed?
I'm not trying to be a smartass, just trying to understand!
JT
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
A relapse for me would mean i am not changing enough to stay sober, i think about it everyday. It took me years of not knowing how to stop drinking and 'relapsing' over and over again to get to the point where i have been able to stop drinking for a period of time though, but i wouldn't have called them relapses even at the time because i knew i was not really going all out to stay sober really!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 74
Originally Posted by Wombat05
Re-reading what I've written here--I almost deleted it. It is a lot easier to just ghost around, and let the negativity go--but I decided this time I'm just not going to sit idle and not say anything.
Thank you, Wombat.
everything is already ok
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
Posts: 19,793
I remember how many times I tried to stop and could not and after 20 years clean picked up again. I now believe that this dis ease of addiction is here to stay and I must use the info support and program I have to grow and must always remain vigilant. Thats why I do this one day at a time.
I am always so pleased to see people to return after a relapse and for those of us that have relapsed then that is part of our journey.
Finding NA was and is the solution to me and is led me to my spiritual life and a way to clear the debris from within and without and move on through life able to withstand whatever life presents. I am glad no one told me relapse was unacceptable after my 11 year relapse, I would have turned around and walked back out, as it was I was shown love and compassiona and its always my intention, to do the same.
Kevin
I am always so pleased to see people to return after a relapse and for those of us that have relapsed then that is part of our journey.
Finding NA was and is the solution to me and is led me to my spiritual life and a way to clear the debris from within and without and move on through life able to withstand whatever life presents. I am glad no one told me relapse was unacceptable after my 11 year relapse, I would have turned around and walked back out, as it was I was shown love and compassiona and its always my intention, to do the same.
Kevin
A new dawn and new chapter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 298
I say it's 50/50. You can't be to hard on your self if you relapse. God knows I made thousands attempts to stop drinking in the past and just couldn't quite make it there. On the other hand I don't think you should take it lightly either like "well this is all part of the recovery I guess. I'll quit tomorrow then" and drink up. Almost what I would call a voluntarily relapse. But then again who ever forced us to drink before. Relapse happens, guard your self against it at all costs. No matter how badly you may feel like drinking remember the rational side of you doesn't want you to inject poisons into your system!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 179
Not sure if this belongs under this thread, but I did relapse last night and drank. And I needed to read these posts.
I came to the board today because I feel so false--such a liar. I liked Carol's description of relapses as being or indicative of false starts: I know these early "attempts" have been false for me. I had an idea I would be drinking again....still had an image of wine as being a part of my life. Why? I cannot imagine why for the pain it gives me. The only possible reason is that I am an alcoholic and that is the way an alcoholic thinks. argh.
I just don't want to be/live like this. I am going to learn to live without drinking. I want a life that doesn't have such pain in it, one that doesn't have alcohol in it.
Valentines is my sobriety day.
I came to the board today because I feel so false--such a liar. I liked Carol's description of relapses as being or indicative of false starts: I know these early "attempts" have been false for me. I had an idea I would be drinking again....still had an image of wine as being a part of my life. Why? I cannot imagine why for the pain it gives me. The only possible reason is that I am an alcoholic and that is the way an alcoholic thinks. argh.
I just don't want to be/live like this. I am going to learn to live without drinking. I want a life that doesn't have such pain in it, one that doesn't have alcohol in it.
Valentines is my sobriety day.
mergirl
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 4,161
Originally Posted by SavageHurricane
For me, I felt a lot better when Carol posted in one of my threads that she had experienced "false starts"...
If someone who is successful now encourages me by saying they weren't successful first time as well then I feel encouraged to keep trying.
For me it's part of letting go of the "all or nothing", "100% success or 100% failure" attitude. That's the attitude that makes me give up trying because I fell over.
If someone who is successful now encourages me by saying they weren't successful first time as well then I feel encouraged to keep trying.
For me it's part of letting go of the "all or nothing", "100% success or 100% failure" attitude. That's the attitude that makes me give up trying because I fell over.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 6,608
Originally Posted by Theresa
Not sure if this belongs under this thread, but I did relapse last night and drank. And I needed to read these posts.
I came to the board today because I feel so false--such a liar. I liked Carol's description of relapses as being or indicative of false starts: I know these early "attempts" have been false for me. I had an idea I would be drinking again....still had an image of wine as being a part of my life. Why? I cannot imagine why for the pain it gives me. The only possible reason is that I am an alcoholic and that is the way an alcoholic thinks. argh.
I just don't want to be/live like this. I am going to learn to live without drinking. I want a life that doesn't have such pain in it, one that doesn't have alcohol in it.
Valentines is my sobriety day.
I came to the board today because I feel so false--such a liar. I liked Carol's description of relapses as being or indicative of false starts: I know these early "attempts" have been false for me. I had an idea I would be drinking again....still had an image of wine as being a part of my life. Why? I cannot imagine why for the pain it gives me. The only possible reason is that I am an alcoholic and that is the way an alcoholic thinks. argh.
I just don't want to be/live like this. I am going to learn to live without drinking. I want a life that doesn't have such pain in it, one that doesn't have alcohol in it.
Valentines is my sobriety day.
For the beginning do not thing of giving up alcohol forever. Do it for today. I would psyche myself out when I would think "I can never drink again." Someone here told me don't give it up forever, give it up for today. I did it for today until I got 30 days and then so on. When it gets tough I go back to the "today" thought process. It really pulls me through.
Just wanted to reach out to you on this because I have been in the shoes you're wearing. Pretty soon you'll out grow them.
Too far from the beach
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 387
Originally Posted by Jackstone
I am not a great thinker, and I am a little turned around, confused concerning this topic and some of the discussion.
My question is: If you believe that a relapse is unacceptable, AND you relapse, where does that leave you? Do you continue drinking because you have failed?
I'm not trying to be a smartass, just trying to understand!
JT
My question is: If you believe that a relapse is unacceptable, AND you relapse, where does that leave you? Do you continue drinking because you have failed?
I'm not trying to be a smartass, just trying to understand!
JT
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