Is this abuse or just controlling.....
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: MO
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Is this abuse or just controlling.....
...or does it even matter because it is so out of line either way? One more holiday memory down the drain. My 4 year old lost his spiderman mask somewhere in our house. So last night AH starts in on him that if he doesn't find the mask he can't go trick-or-treating. He starts crying that he doesn't want to find it. AH then says he must have lost it on purpose because he didn't want to wear it and tells him he better go get it wherever he put it. :wtf2 Me (being the codependent I am) start to help looking and AH yells....."Don't help him. He knows exactly where it is because he hid it on purpose." By this time 4 year old is sobbing and I'm furious. This went on for about 20 minutes, which may as well be 20 hours to a child.
Long story short, I told him he could just wear his spiderman baseball hat. I told AH that if he didn't find his happy face he couldn't join us. We all went, and AH goes on as if nothing occured, while I'm left in the wake with all these emotions. This morning he got up early to take everyone out to breakfast. 16 year old and I opted out.......we aren't morning people anyway.
Long story short, I told him he could just wear his spiderman baseball hat. I told AH that if he didn't find his happy face he couldn't join us. We all went, and AH goes on as if nothing occured, while I'm left in the wake with all these emotions. This morning he got up early to take everyone out to breakfast. 16 year old and I opted out.......we aren't morning people anyway.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Reading that hurt me to the core. In my opinion, out of line is the understatement of the year. I can't even begin to imagine the pain and confusion your 4 year old was feeling. 
This is where I have a really difficult time reading posts with children involved.
My 30 year old AD is a perfect example of the long-term effects of me staying with a sick twisted and abusive AH for so long. Abuse comes in many forms, and I truly believe that emotional abuse is the worst.
I will carry that shame/guilt with me to my grave.
This is where I have a really difficult time reading posts with children involved.
My 30 year old AD is a perfect example of the long-term effects of me staying with a sick twisted and abusive AH for so long. Abuse comes in many forms, and I truly believe that emotional abuse is the worst.
I will carry that shame/guilt with me to my grave.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
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I'm going to go with "both" leaning strongly on the "abusive"
One of my strongest childhood memories is my father telling me to go "find" things, then when I couldn't find whatever it was, he'd say "don't MAKE me get up and come look for it."
He never raised his voice or hand to me but that terrified me.
I still have issues with this today, if I can't find something, especially if it's for somebody else, I freak, my heart rate climbs, I sweat, I get anxiety ridden and really afraid, I feel like a child all over again, a scared child that's about to get in trouble, i literally "hear" his voice "don't MAKE me have to come find that"......it's really uncomfortable
I also don't "see" the "codie tendency" in helping your child look for his mask...
The kid is four years old ffs .......
anyway, sorry all I have to offer is righteous indignation, outrage and opinion, no solution, sorry, but that behavior "triggered" me and it would take everything I had not to say or do something if I saw a father behaving like that to a child.... like taking dad around the corner and asking him to try that sh1t on someone his own size...after I had already kicked him 2 or 3 times....
that really made me angry...sorry....
One of my strongest childhood memories is my father telling me to go "find" things, then when I couldn't find whatever it was, he'd say "don't MAKE me get up and come look for it."
He never raised his voice or hand to me but that terrified me.
I still have issues with this today, if I can't find something, especially if it's for somebody else, I freak, my heart rate climbs, I sweat, I get anxiety ridden and really afraid, I feel like a child all over again, a scared child that's about to get in trouble, i literally "hear" his voice "don't MAKE me have to come find that"......it's really uncomfortable
I also don't "see" the "codie tendency" in helping your child look for his mask...
The kid is four years old ffs .......
anyway, sorry all I have to offer is righteous indignation, outrage and opinion, no solution, sorry, but that behavior "triggered" me and it would take everything I had not to say or do something if I saw a father behaving like that to a child.... like taking dad around the corner and asking him to try that sh1t on someone his own size...after I had already kicked him 2 or 3 times....
that really made me angry...sorry....
Formerly known as soconfused11
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Colon, MI
Posts: 410
I would also say more towards being abusive.....that bully type behavior reminds me so much of my xabf. And yesterday I was having a hard day, really missing Chris and feeling bad that he couldn't be with us on Halloween, but your post was a good reminder as to why he's not here with us. So many holidays ruined.
Trying to find a path
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 91
Man, does that bring up old anger.
As the child of an alcoholic I can tell you this. Behavior like that is emotional abuse. There are right ways to treat a child and wrong ways. There is no real grey area as far as I am concerned. Especially at 4 years old.
The really bad thing here that I see and remember is that it was all for nothing, you found a hat and off you went to Trick or Treat. All that yelling, crying and hurt accomplished nothing but yelling, crying and hurt.
Last night when I was out with my son. We were walking behind a family and as they were walking by the bar on Main St. the parent told the kids to wait there for a minute while they went inside to fill up their 32 oz stop and go type cups. The look on those kids faces. I felt so bad for them. Trick or Treating started at 6pm and this was like 6:20pm. This was a very familiar scene to me.
At least your children have one sober parent.
One more thing. My son kept telling me yesterday that he didn't want to go last night. He said he wasn't that excited about it. He's 11! What 11 year old kid doesn't want free candy?
He kept saying, "remember ..." and I finally had to stop him and say, those are our memories and we will always have them and now it is our job to the future us to make some more memories and we owe it to our future selves to make them good ones.
We had a really great night.
As the child of an alcoholic I can tell you this. Behavior like that is emotional abuse. There are right ways to treat a child and wrong ways. There is no real grey area as far as I am concerned. Especially at 4 years old.
The really bad thing here that I see and remember is that it was all for nothing, you found a hat and off you went to Trick or Treat. All that yelling, crying and hurt accomplished nothing but yelling, crying and hurt.
Last night when I was out with my son. We were walking behind a family and as they were walking by the bar on Main St. the parent told the kids to wait there for a minute while they went inside to fill up their 32 oz stop and go type cups. The look on those kids faces. I felt so bad for them. Trick or Treating started at 6pm and this was like 6:20pm. This was a very familiar scene to me.
At least your children have one sober parent.
One more thing. My son kept telling me yesterday that he didn't want to go last night. He said he wasn't that excited about it. He's 11! What 11 year old kid doesn't want free candy?
He kept saying, "remember ..." and I finally had to stop him and say, those are our memories and we will always have them and now it is our job to the future us to make some more memories and we owe it to our future selves to make them good ones.
We had a really great night.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
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I'd call it abusive bullying, hurtful, counter-productive, and grounds for divorce.
But that's just me.
You are the balm blessed- thank goodness your children have you - but that kind of dynamic - like bullying and terror on a special night for a kid - followed by a special treat out to bkfst the next day-- pretty classic "I hurt you, but it was nothing, I'm sorry" see-saw abusive stuff and very hard for a kid to not internalize - esp a 4yr old.
(((hugs)))
Peace-
B.
But that's just me.
You are the balm blessed- thank goodness your children have you - but that kind of dynamic - like bullying and terror on a special night for a kid - followed by a special treat out to bkfst the next day-- pretty classic "I hurt you, but it was nothing, I'm sorry" see-saw abusive stuff and very hard for a kid to not internalize - esp a 4yr old.
(((hugs)))
Peace-
B.
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Join Date: May 2008
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Thank you all for your honest responses. I'm working on trusting my gut.
I did not grow up in an alcoholic home, but my parents did, and I think some of those patterns were passed down. I remember once when I was very young being asked to go get something in another room during a thunderstorm. I said I was afraid lightning would come through the window and hurt me. My dad yelled and said I was just too lazy to go get it. The yelling and tears went on for what seemed like all night. I have often wondered why so many years later that is such a vivid memory. Incidents like this repeated themselves numerous times throughout the years, and thus I earned the title of "the strongwilled child".
It's the same sort of thing that happens here. I guess I question whether that's the kind of thing that goes on in every home, since it has been the only reality I have ever known.
I did not grow up in an alcoholic home, but my parents did, and I think some of those patterns were passed down. I remember once when I was very young being asked to go get something in another room during a thunderstorm. I said I was afraid lightning would come through the window and hurt me. My dad yelled and said I was just too lazy to go get it. The yelling and tears went on for what seemed like all night. I have often wondered why so many years later that is such a vivid memory. Incidents like this repeated themselves numerous times throughout the years, and thus I earned the title of "the strongwilled child".
It's the same sort of thing that happens here. I guess I question whether that's the kind of thing that goes on in every home, since it has been the only reality I have ever known.
Trying to find a path
Join Date: Oct 2008
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I always figured in a 100% healthy home during the thunderstorm the parent would go with you and show you that there was nothing to be afraid of.
I know there is no 100% but I think we have to strive for it, right?
I know there is no 100% but I think we have to strive for it, right?
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Originally Posted by sslusser 
I always figured in a 100% healthy home during the thunderstorm the parent would go with you and show you that there was nothing to be afraid of.
On an aside note........last night AH passed out early and was snoring loud enough for me to hear from the living room for an hour or so. I finally decided to go to bed and when I got in the bedroon he was peeing IN THE SINK. I got in bed and flipped off the TV. As he stumbled back to bed he turned the TV back on and said, "Are you the B!&@# that turned the TV off?" I'm going to say that is abuse......I think I'm getting better at this.
Not the way I want me or my children to live either, BTW. I am taking babysteps to change things, will continue to detch in the meantime.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tyne and Wear, UK
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Blessed, your posts really touched a nerve with me. I do think that your partner treated your little boy in an abusive and completely inexcusable way. And the hurtful behaviour followed by a "treat" that Bernadette mentioned is something I'm very familar with from my childhood. My dad left when I was 5 so I didn't have a sober parent to turn to. It's good that your children do have one loving and sober parent who obviously cares for them so deeply.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
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Hi Blessed....I am extricating myself from a similar situation, and I too have a hard time labeling emotional/psychological abuse - "abuse". As I am working through all this I am becoming more aware of how tolerant I became of the intolerable. Anyway, I wanted to share with you a book I am currently reading that is helping me a lot. It is called "Why Does He Do That? Inside the minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft. I cannot recommend this book highly enough. Maybe it will help you too.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: California
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Blessed, I'm sorry you had to go through that with your kids. My AH never wanted to with the boys and I on halloween. He sat at home and drank,
in the dark so he didn't have to answer the door.
I think you have gotten your answer regarding abuse. I just wanted to add that I too had trouble figuring out just what abuse was. There was no hitting or physical violence but there was and still is at times verbal abuse. (he would tell you I am over sensitive and can't take a joke)
I think its good to post about it because I found that I just couldn't tell what was going on but to people away from the situation things were much clearer.
I was the frog in the boiling water.
in the dark so he didn't have to answer the door.
I think you have gotten your answer regarding abuse. I just wanted to add that I too had trouble figuring out just what abuse was. There was no hitting or physical violence but there was and still is at times verbal abuse. (he would tell you I am over sensitive and can't take a joke)
I think its good to post about it because I found that I just couldn't tell what was going on but to people away from the situation things were much clearer.
I was the frog in the boiling water.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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me 3
except I was raised in the boiling water so it seemed "normal"
it took years of sobriety, step work, and therapy to overcome it, the scary thing was how fast I went back to that and worse when I re-entered that environment.
I walked away from it this time sicker than I have ever been.
except I was raised in the boiling water so it seemed "normal"
it took years of sobriety, step work, and therapy to overcome it, the scary thing was how fast I went back to that and worse when I re-entered that environment.
I walked away from it this time sicker than I have ever been.
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me 4.
There is another good book out called "No Visible Wounds" that helped me a lot. I also found a lot of good stuff by going to Al Anon meetings and reading.
Your son is blessed that he has a stable parent. I can remember many situations in my 2nd marriage where my exh would be raging at the kids about something they had lost or done or whatever... and then he'd do the same thing as yours and we'd be off to Six Flags or some other ridiculous place the next day like nothing ever happened.
I've been away from that for awhile now, and it's almost surreal to imagine that I used to live in that world.
There IS light and life and happiness out there for you and your children, regardless of whether or not he continues to drink...
Hugs
Cats
There is another good book out called "No Visible Wounds" that helped me a lot. I also found a lot of good stuff by going to Al Anon meetings and reading.
Your son is blessed that he has a stable parent. I can remember many situations in my 2nd marriage where my exh would be raging at the kids about something they had lost or done or whatever... and then he'd do the same thing as yours and we'd be off to Six Flags or some other ridiculous place the next day like nothing ever happened.
I've been away from that for awhile now, and it's almost surreal to imagine that I used to live in that world.
There IS light and life and happiness out there for you and your children, regardless of whether or not he continues to drink...
Hugs
Cats
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Originally Posted by CatsPajamas
Your son is blessed that he has a stable parent.
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Blessed - you are in my thoughts and prayers, as is your family. I have seen things like that played out in my sister's family for the last 16 years as a result of her AH's behavior. It is abuse, even though it took me years of standing by and watching it happen to realize it. Only now am I seeing the effects it has had on my sister and her 4 terrific kids. You are brave - and a good mom - who is leading her children and herself out of a difficult and sad situation. Keep going!
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I fear what the years of emotional abuse have done to my son.
We are away from AH for 18 months and he seems to be doing ok.
I have him seeing the guidance counsler at school and keep communication open.
He will be turning 14 next week,that is a hard enough age to deal with,all I can do is love him and pray.
We are away from AH for 18 months and he seems to be doing ok.
I have him seeing the guidance counsler at school and keep communication open.
He will be turning 14 next week,that is a hard enough age to deal with,all I can do is love him and pray.
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