Gmoney

I dunno. I just posted in another thread that I believe I'm suffering from meeting overdose (just kidding) because I am going to more meetings nowadays. I've heard it said before, but I've been hearing it said a lot lately: "Drugs brought us here and it will always be about the drugs!" One member even shared that everyone should shy away from members who say, "It's not about the drugs today," because they aren't working the NA program.

I got heated.

I'm well aware that NA is a fellowship of men & women for whom drugs HAD become a major problem. Yet, after we get clean and stay clean for a while, don't we eventually learn that our drug usage was merely a symptom of a greater problem? When do we accept that our disease is bigger than the drugs? When do we stop blaming the drugs? Are we to stay in constant self-centered fear of relapsing to a drug, or do we really recover?

Comments...concerns?

kj3880

I think I realized that my opiate addiction was the tip of my mental unhealthiness iceberg almost from the very beginning of recovery. Not just because I stopped using, although that gave me the mental clarity and space and lack of immediate problems of getting drugs so that I could focus on my other stuff. Because I started working on myself in NA. And working on relating to and reaching out to other human beings there for the first time in my life. I really thought the drugs were my only problem and I went to NA for help to stop taking them. What I'm getting there is so much more. I'm getting a life. Thanks, NA. Thanks guys.
KJ

Sugah

You know, Garry, I go to AA a lot more than NA, but I've been called on the same thing at both fellowships. Well, maybe gently reminded that the newcomer must hear something in a share that she or he can relate to, so, even when it's no longer about the drug (for me), I should relate it to the drug - to keep the newcomer's attention.

To answer your question, I can't tell you when it stopped being about the drug. Probably before I was finished with formal step work (9-10 months). Once in a great while, it again becomes about the drug - in a manner of speaking. If I'm having health problems that I think might require some sort of medication that's on my no-no list, then I think about it. If I'm invited to an event where I know there will be a lot of booze, I think about it (I'll tell someone - it's an accountability factor then).

I guess it's always about the drug in part that I am treating the primary cause so that the symptoms (the drug) don't resurface - but more importantly because I'm a better person without them. I get more in a minute's time from my relationship with my higher power than I ever got out of endless hours of using. I find a satisfaction resting my head at night knowing that I was able to be of use to another human being - rather than closing my eyes thinking about tomorrow's scheme for getting and using and finding ways and means to get more.

I think that it's a good thing when it goes beyond the symptoms and becomes what it's supposed to become - a solution to the drug problem (rather than a fearful barrier against the drug) - so long as we keep in mind that the newcomer comes through the door in a much different frame of mind and share in such a way that the newcomer knows she or he is in the right place.

Good topic, Garry.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Gmoney

You make a very good point, Sugah. I truly believe it is very important to keep an atmosphere of identification in our meetings, and make no bones about it, it is our identification as "drug addicts" that helps to form the foundation of our unity. In NA, we try to stay away from being "drug specific" so as not to alienate or disqualify anyone. I mean, with the diversity of addicts (drugs used) found in NA, it's important to remember that drugs are what bring us to recovery, AND by focusing on abstinence from drugs we keep it basic enough for the newcomer to relate and feel welcomed.

Yet...I think it is also important to let the newcomer know that there's a point in the process of each of us that we'll reach when drugs will no longer be the primary focus of our daily existence. The promise of "freedom from active addiction" does get fulfilled and we do recover to a point where "practicing these principles in all our affairs" becomes second nature (done without conscious effort). I'm talking about "living" the program, as opposed to "working" it. Feel me?

Agreed! And that's also my point. When I'm treating the primary cause (me), then that is my focus (or problem) and as a result I don't have to have drugs as a problem again.

Paulie

IMO it stops being about the drugs when we work our steps, somewhere in there, I started to get it, that it was not about the drugs. And my first sponsor made sure that I understood that. IMO it is important to understand that. When I understood it, it helped with the craving for it, the mental craving I thought I had.

I tell women I sponsor in the very beginning that it is not about the drugs. Once the physical craving is gone, IMO it is not about the drugs anymore. That was a relief for me. That helped me understand that I never had to use again. That helped me understand that I could have what others in the rooms had, happiness, joy, peace.....all that great stuff, freedom from using.

Today for me it is about the behaviours, and the solution to working on/changing the behaviours that is what I find in the steps and my relationship with an HP.

I have never had anyone even suggest to me that I should not share that at meeting level, and I do share it alot.

Paulie

One more thing, IMO no one should ever share at meeting level that members should shy away from others members who share a certain message for any reason. It is comments like that, that just confuse a newcomer.

Just my 4 cents!

happyboy

Interesting. I was commenting after a meeting a little while ago that we rarely talk about drugs in meetings. Sometimes we refer to when we were using, but that is it. My understanding of recovery is that I become a functioning member of society again. I also believe that at some point the desire to use leaves us. I also believe we do recover (recover - not cure) I learn the most in meetings when we talk about how to live without drugs. When my sponsor help me understand how the steps are my tools of living life on life's terms.

I like Sugah's point about keeping it real for the newcomer. I think my home group could pay a bit of heed to that. But I like the message of hope that comes from meetings when we talk of how we can learn to live productive lives, free of drugs.

Underlying that off course is the nature of the disease of addiction.

When i first went into the rooms of na I had the gift of desperation. I wanted to live again. I heard little about drugs. I heard about people living in a way I thought was impossible - happily and free of mind altering substances. That gave me hope and made me feel I was in the right place.

REZ

At first it was about problems with specific drugs. Then it became about drug addiction. Then it became about addiction. Then it became about trying to live a spiritual life one day at a time. It is still all those things for me.

Gmoney

Thanks you guys.

I spoke with my sponsor and several old-timers about this topic last night. They all said the same thing Paulie said: no one should ever tell anyone else who to avoid based on their message. Why? Because each of us is entitled to come to an understanding of the program for ourselves. Another reason mentioned was that we should always share our ES&H, instead of preaching or judging. I agreed totally.

But one of the most profound things they talked about was how drugs aren't mentioned in the steps after step 3. WOW!! One old-timer even shared, "If drugs are still your problem after a few years clean...you might need to go back to the 1st step!" So...one could say that 75% of the program is about learning how to live: becoming responsible, productive and socially acceptable.

I must admit, I can see how drugs should remain a part of our discussions in recovery - especially for the newcomer, but as some point (IMO, as soon as possible) we need to understand that our addiction is about more than drugs AND our recovery is about more than staying clean. Currently...drugs aren't my problem, but addiction will always be. I am an addict, but today I'm not a drug addict. The symptom of drug use has long been arrested. I think the newcomer should know theirs can be arrested too.

"We cannot change the nature of the addict or addiction. We can help to change the old lie "Once an addict, always an addict," by striving to make recovery more available. God help us remember this difference." ~ Basic Text, page xiv

navysteve

Are we to stay in constant self-centered fear of relapsing to a drug, or do we really recover?

I believe that if we practice the steps as a way of life, we do recover. Drugs are not a problem in my life. I have been set free. I do not choose to stay clean today, I have been released from a cunning and baffling addiction and as long as I stay in fit spiritual condition I cannot take drugs. But, should I stop practicing these steps I will eventually have no choice but to use ( there is the catch). I hear the same things in meetings and am told that I don't understand the program. Meetings are important, but meeting attendance is not recovery, its the other 23 hours a day that lead me to recovery or the next drug.

When I share I share how it was, what happened and what it is like now. I don't tell war stories or chant mantras in meetings. War stories never kept me clean and mantras just keep me from thinking I have work to do:

Feeling bad- call your sponsor, make a gratitude list, step up your meetings.

How about work the steps like your life depends on it? That works for me.

We place too much reliance on human powers, I have a sponsor, but I don't hang on his every word. He doesn't tell me what to do, he shows me what he did. I don't need meetings, I need other recovering people, I have sat stone cold silent in many meetings and heard nothing. I have been to bad meetings, sometimes I caused them. If I don't pick up the tools laid at my feet at most meetings then I gain nothing.

But hey, I sit in the back of the room so what do I know?

Paulie

LOL Steve.

You said some really good stuff.

kj3880

I have to say I've gotten something, however small, out of every one of the approx 60 meetings I've been to in the last couple of months. Sometimes it's just a hug that I get, but I really need hugs right now. I'm new to this thing, and sometimes on a really bad day, a meeting to look forward to keeps me hanging in there. I'm working on steps, I'm writing and thinking, but I do think I need to go to meetings. It's not the program, the steps are the program, but I couldn't work steps alone, and I don't know how to do it without the support of my bros and sis's in NA. And I meet those fellow addicts at NA. In addition, a meeting kind of gets me to focus on my recovery for at least one hour a day, something I desperately need to do right now in my busy life. Maybe when you finish the steps you become self-actualized and just go to meetings to reinforce what you already know, I don't know because I'm not there yet. But for new peoples, at least in my experience, going to a lot of meetings seems to be a very important part of staying clean.
KJ

navysteve

Meetings are the fellowship and that is important, but...

We sometimes place more emphasis on them than the program ( I have heard in meetings that you should wait to work the steps or just don't use.) When I question things like that in a group conscious meeting I get told that some people need to hear that. But all I can think about is all the coffins being filled by addicts who needed to hear work the steps now! Or how long do you want to wait? Or, you never have to feel that way again if you do this!?!?!? We get stuck in alot of meetings in the war story, which I need to a point. I need to know you and I share a common bond in our suffering but more than that I need "THE" solution.

Meetings are not recovery. Meetings are a means to recovery. And a great one most times!!

I sponsored a guy online ( only time I ever did) He was in Iraq, no meetings to attend (where he was but there are a few in Iraq I know)but the occasional drug was available

He began to recover. He is home now and attends meetings, I get the occasional email from him. I mailed him his one year coin to Iraq, he is working on three now.

Meetings can be wonderful, but in my perspective and in my experience they can be heart breaking as well. I have met guys with serious time in the rooms who hadn't done a fourth step. They said things like my sponsor said I am still on step one, or I am just not ready to llok at that ( a guy with ten years who sponsors people) I know step work is not a race but I am sorry ten years without cleaning up the wreckage????

I met another guy at a meeting who rode up on his brand new Harley, he shared about it in the meeting. I noticed all the white power tatoos on his arms. I did get alot out of that meeting, but it wasn't anything anyone had said, because the sharing was in my opinion, horrible. But there was a black man sitting right next to him. I noticed him eyeing the tat's. I thought he was gonna jump him after the meeting. He hugged him and thanked him for sharing.

After the meeting I walked up to the guy and asked him why?????

He said " because today I am not a victim of my emotions. Today I am free!" But of course, he had worked the steps. I left that meeting feeling pretty good.

And I think what Garry was getting at was when does it move beyond drugs? When do we live in the solution?

barb dwyer

thoroughly enjoying this thread - thanks Garry!!!

Paulie

I LOVE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The_Hammer

I have always been of the opnion that the substance was only 10% of the problem. I was 90% of the problem. When I worked the steps, the Me problem begins to fade and we can see the path of damage that the drugs did and more fully appreciate the gift I have been given in being straight. My heart needed a good overhaul, as well as my head and my soul. Nothing is exempt from what addiction did to me.

navysteve

Drugs are merely a symptom. If they were th eproblem we would only need one step:

1. Hey doofus, stop using, you can't handle it!

The_Hammer

Right on.

THe dope is what distorted my image in the mirror. Made it possible for me to be acceptable in social circles that I ran in. Made it so I could talk to the girl in the corner at that party. It became a mask I couldn't or wouldn't take off (both are true). So wher did the problem lay? Right in my lap. I spent enough time blaming; "well if so and so would quit picking on me...", you know the rest.

hairgirl

Sometimes, I don't think people want take the steps as seriously as they need to.I know for a fact that my addictions issues are just a symptom of my psychological issues.It was there before I touched any drug.As a child, I learned to make myself feel better by eating, and as an adult- it was my choice to find something else to make me "feel better".
I knew that getting my drug addiction under control would help me work through the emotional mess I was underneath.I did it because I wanted to heal.The drugs are just the tip of the iceberg.Allot of people seem to think that once they are clean for a while, everything else should just be "Fixed", for the rest of their lives.I think it goes along with the instant gratification we long for.All I know, is that I have learned more in the past few years about the "why", and how to heal a lifetime of pain.It makes the symptom of drug abuse allot less of an obstacle to a much larger situation.

Gmoney

KJ, don't get it twisted...recovery DOES happen in our meetings. Meetings are very, very important, but I also see what Steve is saying. We should really give credit to the steps for our recovery, but we also need the fellowship and meetings. I do...just not as many as I once did (LOL!!).

As a member who has been around for a little while now, I'd share long and hard against any assertion that step work should be put off (by anyone) or "postponed." NA tells us that the sooner we get busy the better. Anyone who ignores this information or believes that others should be told to not work the steps, obviously hasn't picked up a Basic Text and read it. And how can someone sponsor someone else if they haven't worked the steps themselves? Sounds like the blind leading the blind to me. I know of a home group member who has 13 years clean but has never done a 4th step. She continues to have problems in the same area of her life over and over and over again. I wonder why? Does she know how to stay clean? Of course she does, but she hasn't learned how to recover (IMO). The Basic Text tells us that just putting down the drugs will lead to improvements in our lives. Some see these small (but important) improvements as enough and they feel they have arrived...that is, until life hits them right between the eyes. These are often the ones who whine, bitch and moan constantly in meetings (about the same issues) and use valuable meeting time as an arena for dumping their problems on everone else. They are given positive experience and solutions. but the same unwillingness that keeps them from doing step work, keeps them stuck in the problem instead of the solution (IMO). So...is drugs their problem?