fluffyarmpit

which one is it that you can snort? the subutex? I'm getting down to my final 2 weeks of tapering down from oxy, so i want some answers gorrrrrrrsh darn it.

ex D-Boy

you can snort subutex, cannot snort methadone or suboxone.

Well technically you can snort any of them but i wouldn't recommend snorting either of the latter two(from personal experience)

fluffyarmpit

I'm weining off oxy right now... 2morow I'll be down to 80mgs... I wanna get on subutex, that that brand name?....ugh i hate insurance

ex D-Boy

my suggestion would be to go on a short term taper with methadone. Not only is it the cheapest med out of the 3 it is also the most effective in MY personal experience getting off dope.

fluffyarmpit

do they have generic versions? my deductable for brand name is $500! oh and can my regular doc perscribe methadone?

bval

Regular doctors cannot *legally* prescribe methadone to known drug addicts. The law says you have to go to a clinic, where you get to stand in line with a bunch of other junkies, many of whom still use heroin, every day. And after many months of clean **** tests, you *may* start getting to take home a couple days worth of the stuff at a time.

Doctors who have completed the proper 8-hour buprenorphine 'certification' can prescribe it on an outpatient basis to opiate addicts from their PRIVATE practices. They can give you as much to take home as they feel comfortable doing. My doc after 2 months started giving me 3 weeks worth at a time, then after 5 months I got a whole months worth at a time.

There is no generic buprenorphine at present, just subutex/suboxone. It doesn't take long (maybe two weeks) usually before you can start living on about 8mg a day, no matter how big your habit was. That usually runs you about 7 bucks a day. Compared to dope of ANY kind on the street, that's dirt cheap.

I don't recommend methadone to anyone but the most hardcore junkies, or maybe to people doing a short-term taper IN REHAB. Outside of rehab I can guarantee you're far better off on buprenorphine my friend...

And yes, D-Boy is correct about the snorting thing. Subutex of the three only. That's what I was on, + that's how I did it 99% of the time. Not as 'kind' as oxy by that route, but you get used to it. Gotta do *small* amounts at a time ...

fluffyarmpit

i dunno your defination of hardcore junkie but i'd take 200mg of oxy in 2hours and also mix it with valium sometimes also. Just trying to figure which route to take because after i wein off I don't want those cravings at all!

ex D-Boy

good points bvaljalo , i forgot to mention i did my short term taper while in rehab.

I don't know how it works if you are not in a facility.

bval

Okay, well, that certainly qualifies as a hefty friggin dose of Oxy, for sure.

The defining point here being that if you're TOO hardcore of a junkie (like, shooting a gram of dope a day for ten, fifteen years) bupe may not be strong enough to work for you. You may need to get on methadone if you're in that bad of a way.

If you've gotten down to 80mg a day, you'll have NO problem making bupe work for you when the time comes. You'll have no cravings on it at all past the first 24-48 hours, which can admittedly be a little 'rough' while you make the transition.

squirty

I'm really sorry if I'm gonna come across out of order here cus I know that everyone here is struggling...

but the thing is... this thread has caused me some distress today and I think it's important to say this.

At the moment I am on a subutex detox and have been for about 7 months. As I said on your other thread Fluffy, subs have saved my life and I am SO much stronger now...

but I am still a weak addict and I do struggle sometimes and to be perfectly honest with you guys, talking about snorting subs is really unhelpful to my recovery and it's pissed me off that people are discussing it.

I have always loved shoving things up my nose... anything really and my nose has suffered for it...


but the thing is that was how I was in active addiction. Of course, I've wanted to snort subs but have I done it? NO... because I am taking them to recover and I've put faith in my doctor to help me get better. Surprisingly, my doctor did not tell me to crush my subs up and snort them!!!

Like a good girl, I put them under my tongue and wait for them to dissolve as prescribed.

Snorting drugs is not recovery surely?

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as anal. It's just, if you knew how hard it had been for me to do this right and how close this thread made me come to wanting to snort my subs, I think you might understand why I'm upset.

Fluffy, I hope you find the right path. It is such a shame that cost is an issue. This is where I am eternally grateful for the NHS. I know my doctor could have prescribed me either methadone or subs and he was keen to go on the sub route (remember he doesn't gain financially by this choice). The way he put it would be that he (as an addiction specialiast) would prescribe methadone for someone with a severe heroin addiction to stabalise them on and then put them on subs once they'd stabalised on the methadone. With me, he just made me stabalise on painkillers (still at a high dose) and then switched to subs. THIS IS JUST MY EXPERIENCE!!!

zenith15

I had a 20 year hydrocodone habit (also used heroin IV for 6 months of that time), and I tried bupe back when it was still "experimental" (2000) and they prescribed it as an injection (subcutaneous). It did NOTHING for either me or my husband, and I mean NOTHING. I later tried methadone and that has worked great! I have been on methadone for close to 4 years now. I have had monthly takehomes for a long time now so I only go in once per month. I have never once had anyone offer me drugs or ask me to buy drugs from them at the clinic nor have I ever seen such activity take place. Contrary to popular opinion, not all clinics are open air drug markets--many are well run, quiet, friendly places. However, I would always advise anyone to try Bupe FIRST, simply because of the stigma and the BS you can get with the clinic system.

kari08

fluffy,
I know what the panic feels like.. to not want to have to "suffer" withdrawls and cravings and to have to work for this. I can almost hear the panic in your words. I have been living that same nightmare for the last year. I have done the same things as far as rationalizing why I continued to take the med, why I medically needed it, why why why. And how scared I was to go thru w/d and didn't want to crave. Basically.. without being non-compassionate which I am totally NOT I am a very understanding person.. I have to say this. Nothing comes for free.. nothing comes without work and some degree of pain. We are addicts. In no uncertain terms for whatever reason we did this to ourselves. yes we all have our own stories and reasons, but ultimately the one shoving the pills in or the needle in is staring us in the mirror everyday. So why do we deserve to do this painlessly? I personally feel I deserved to get my a** kicked for this. And going throu the w/d do just that. It brings us out stronger and hopefully more Pi**ed in the end to fight this addiction even more. It seems to me and just my opinion of course that u are letting fear run this for you. And indeed money is an issue sometimes, but in the end isn't it about sobriety? And stopping the addiction. I won't even go into the damage you are causing by snorting anything but fresh ocean saline up your nose can do. You should be focusing on taking the treatment you can get... taking it exactly like your doctor wants you to and getting clean. I only say this cause this is a tape I have played in my own player for a long long time. sorry.. stepping off the box now..
Kari

fluffyarmpit

trust me, I've been through rough times while recovering, really rough, so please do not assume that because I didn't mention it, that it did not happen. I had a week where I would wake up crying uncontrollably, I'd get panic attacks so badly i couldn't breathe. I tried to stop cold turkey and I couldn't, guess I'm not as strong as you are. It lasted about 3 days, and had to call up someone to get morphine pills, then after that made me feel better, went right back to oxy's. withdrawls are the worse thing in the world, and ya if a pill can help me avoid that, then a pill is what i will take, not to get high, not to replace it with a different drug................ TO GET BETTER! I'm not looking for highs anymore at all. I almost OD'd and that's what made me stop if you read my other post you'd know my whole story. I've also been through paxil withdrawls too which are equally as horrible, so trust me, I'm putting in my work to get better, not just skipping down the street saying yippee today i took my magic pills everyone and I'm so much better now!

fluffyarmpit

I'm sorry squirty if it made you feel like that, the reason I asked is because the one you can snort, is the one I do not want. I'm used to snorting things, which is part of the habbit, so whichever one I can't snort I want.

bval

I'm certainly NOT encouraging anyone to do their meds in a method other than prescribed.

HOWEVER ...

With regards to bupe, the reality is that it simply does not work unless it enters your bloodstream DIRECTLY. It was used for many DECADES in hospitals as a pain reliever, where it was administered via injection.

A good friend of mine, who actually posts on this board, was part of a pilot program many years ago where doctors were giving heroin addicts buprenorphine in it's usual, injectable form, on a take home basis, to use instead of heroin. She used it, and weaned off of it, and got CLEAN off opiates in this program. This was before subutex/suboxone existed or was technically 'approved' for this purpose. So ... you tell me ... was it WRONG for her to use bupe in this way, via injection, just like she used to do her heroin?

The form that bupe exists in NOW, a *very* hefty dose in sublingual pill form (hefty because a relatively small percentage actually absorbs via your mouth) is simply a route of administration that happens to work and was considered the most convenient format to distribute the drug in. It makes it VERY expensive, relatively speaking. If you were to look up the absorption ratios for the drug, you'd find the following routes, in descending order: 1) IV injection, 2) IM injection, 3) Rectal, 4) Nasal, 5) Sublingual. I'll leave it up to you to determine the 'cost analysis' here. For some of us, cost was/is a BIG issue with bupe.

I would also point out that NONE of the available routes of admin will magically change bupe into a drug that will get you 'high'. They are what they are ... means of getting the drug into your bloodstream directly by avoiding the effects that the stomach and the liver have on the drug (which render it useless).

Bottom line, in my book, the route of administration is of minimal consequence in the overall scheme of things. What's important is getting on, staying on, weaning down, getting off of the stuff, WITHOUT going back to short-acting opiates like heroin or oxys.

Others may disagree, and again, by all means, take it as prescribed if you can. I personally could not do it that way, couldn't get myself to stay on it if I had to sit and suck it every day. An alternate route worked for me, my nose is fine, and I've got almost 10 months clean right now. WHATEVER IT TAKES my friends...

exjunky

I'll make a small confession... when I was going through suboxone detox, sometime in the middle of my taper I tried to snort my dose. I was just yearning for some kind of a buzz but didn't want to relapse. I almost posted a thread about this stupidity here but I didn't want to give anybody any ideas.

My conclusion: A total of waste of time. I don't think it effected me quicker, nor stronger.

So from drug addict to another, my advice is don't do it. Not because it's wrong, not because it represents a failure in your attitude towards quitting, but just because it doesn't effin' work!

ksos

Fluffy....

I can see that you are struggling with the very real truth that you will, most probably, need to endure some withdrawal symptoms in order to kick your habit....

I could not have said it better than kari 08, who posted exactly what I would have wanted to say to you....

How many more times are you going to try to substitute your DOC with another DOC?

Methodone is not for you--you were even informed of this, right? What you must do to even get into an MMTP requires you to do some pretty dangerous things...

I am not educated about subutex, buprenorphine or any of these "newer" methods of opiate withdrawal, so I will leave this topic alone.

I know your story and you know how I feel about your issues. I think kari 08's post should be printed out and posted on your bathroom mirror, my dear friend.

ksos

Fluffy. Why did you ask which drug you can snort?

fluffyarmpit

if you looked up about 5 posts you'd see the reason... I want one you can't snort, since its part of the habbit and addiction. I'm having such a hard time even trying to find a place to go to to get one. I do not want methadone at all, so its either just weening off and hopping for no relapse, or subs

fluffyarmpit

its funny that some people assume things, I don't recall posting hey guys I'm not gonna go through withdrawls at the end of my of my weening off, everythings gonna be perfect and I'll never crave for an opiate ever again! If i have posted that please point it out to me, what I am looking for is suboxone, because from what I understand about the drug it takes the cravings away, and even if you take an opiate it blocks it from the receptors in your brain. Of course there are going to be withdrawls, I've been through them before and I'm prepared for em again, you guys are saying things as if I think I'm gonna be a ok after all of this, I went from 200mgs snorting at night to nothing when i tried to quit the first time and couldn't handle it, guess i'm not as strong as you guys are, I don't understand your reasoning behind the whole we deserve to suffer because of what we did to ourselves, that makes no sense what so ever, its not like I intended for things to get this out of control, just wanted to try something new and fun, which it was at first, but deserving to suffer is a strange way to put it, thats like saying someone who slits there wrist to kill themselves doesn't deserve the paramedics help, they stand back and say ma'am you did this to yourself, you knew what you were doing when you first started cutting, I think you need to endure a little bit more pain and bloodloss so you learn your lesson before I attempt to stop the bleeding. Then after they save her, and bandage her up she's completely fine and has no bad thoughts at all! she's wonderful, everythings wonderful. no I do not deserve to suffer, if theres a way to help me not, I would take it, and i think suboxone is the way to go. Thats a very strange way of looking at things.