calabash

Where I live na is small, relatively new, and we struggle with long sobriety. We have 2 meetings a week, with about 30-40 people between the 2 meetings. 18 months ago, when I went into recovery na was much smaller, there was no literature, no participation in the region etc. One guy wityh the most cleantime of 2 years went out there last week. And he was treasurer. He spent all our book money, all our contributions. Luckily we still have books in stock, and only pay little rent fort the meeting venue. I stole when I was in active addiction. So I have no judgement on that.

The issue is what now. The person is back in the rooms after a week binge. He is broken, but by the grace of god he is back. But he has made no acknowledgement of the monies he stole from the group. He has not said anything about it.

I do not believe it is up to us (the 4 who know) to call him out on iyt. He should make amedns himself isn't it. But it is really getting to me. I am really angry. We3 worked hard to get na of the ground here. And he was an integral part of that.

So chow should we handle it.

I think I must forgive him.....

Doug

Forgiving him will do more for you than it will him, which is much of the point anyway. It also doesn't mean you have to like it, (the event) or him.

As far as what should be done, I'll leave that for somebody else...

stone

Have you asked him where the money is?

Peter

Yes, of course you must forgive him.

I also agree with Doug. You especially should let the matter be handled by someone else because you are so angry. Talk to your sponsor.

There is no need to ask an addict what he did with the money. We already have a pretty good idea what happened to it.

calabash

I have not asked, I know where it is. I am dissapointed I guess. What I really want guidance on is how to handle it within the na group. Do we disclose at the next business meeting he took the money? When we account, how do we handle it in the best, fairest way.

Peter

It has to be addressed at the next business meeting.

As far as handling it is concerned the only thing your group can do is decide how you will recover from the loss.

dontcareinmi

I would have called the police and had him arrested.

Sugah

The concepts spell it out. We are not punitive. It's up to him if he chooses to address it and make amends.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Gmoney

First of all, I agree with everyone who said the addict should be forgiven. Beating him up about his relapse and actions won't help the situation - nor will it do any good to act as if nothing happened. Having him arrested would be more like revenge than recovery. Very often, we assign positions to people for all the wrong reasons and we have to learn from our mistakes. Clean time requirements aren't always a clear indication of qualification.

Misappropriation of NA funds tends to happen. Why? Because we're dealing with people. People are flawed and mess up from time to time. I say this not to excuse the addict of their responsibility to make amends, but only to help calm your anger so you'll understand that level heads must prevail in situations where our expectations aren't fulfilled. Given the opportunity, a little work & some clean time, I'm sure this addict will do right by the group. The addict may not want to address it right now, and shouldn't be forced to do so. Yet, the group HAS TO address it and move on.

In the meantime, it's business as usual for the group. With our primary purpose in mind, the group has to step up and make sure the show goes on. This includes calmly bringing the situation to the table at the next business meeting and devising a plan of action for the group's needs to be met. Sometimes lost or stolen funds cannot be replaced and some sacrifice has to be made until you're in the black again. Other times, there may be members who can donate a bit more than their usual to help make up for the loss.

Since your area is fairly new, you should expect to go through some trials and error. I suggest that you contact NAWS and request Guides For Local Service and bone up on your understanding of the 12 Traditions. It may also be a good idea for certain positions to be shared, or allow someone who isn't fairly new to recovery (or in recovery at all) to hold your money for you. A checking account that requires two signatures might be in order.

Best wishes.

calabash

Thanks Gary,

Well he fessed up last night at a meeting. Was very casual. He is in a long term facility, so he has no income. He was quite flippant about it. Typical addict. I do identify.

Thanks, you are right, we have request a guide to service book, and you are right about the traditions. A couple of us chatted after meeting last night, and agreed to ensure the dooirs stay open. Consistency is vital. Its tough being a newbie (18 months in the programme) and having to ensure na survives too. However, we have a committed core, who share the load. I guess it gives some insight into what those who went before had to do.

I really enjoy this section of SR as it is great to hear from other 12 steppers and share experiences.

thanks again

dontcareinmi

"Having him arrested would be more like revenge than recovery...In the meantime, it's business as usual for the group."

No, it would be justice...he didn't just steal from NA as a whole...he stole from everyone who put a dollar in that basket...

And as long as were so forgiving and in the spirit of recovery....so if someone sexually assults someone in your hall is that ok - what about if they take your car while your inside...is that just business as usual for you too - all in the name of recovery...

Gmoney

Dontcareinmi, this is where you and I differ. Once I put my donation in the basket at any meeting, that money no longer belongs to me. So...if someone stole the money, they didn't steal it from me, they stole it from the group (or NA as a whole...as you put it). All of the other examples you offered are extreme and direct criminal acts to an individual. Mind you, stealing money is also a criminal act, but the severity of the crime has never been mentioned ($5 or $5000) and it would be illogical to compare grapes with watermelons. It's never "okay" for anyone to cause harm, and if you misunderstood my words to conclude that...you're way off base. Insanity can be when we allow our emotions to override our intellect and act hastily without looking at the part we play in our own harm. Reliving an event over and over in my mind with the obsession to "get even" or "make them pay" and justifying it as "justice" isn't recovery for me. Considering the common welfare of NA while maintaining my serenity is. What good will it do NA to have this addict arrested? Would they be arrested or would the police not waste their time on 'he say...she say'? There's too many factors that weren't revealed for me to jump to conclusions with an "off with his head!" attitude. Let's say you have him arrested for stealing $30 and while in jail he kills himself. Would you feel justified then? Sure...it's extreme, but no more than your own hypothetical analogies.

Open-mindedness, acceptance, empathy, forgiveness, patience, tolerance, honesty, willingness and a whole slew of other spiritual principles can be applied in EVERY situation that occurs in our lives...and the program of NA teaches us to practice these principles in ALL OUR AFFAIRS...not just when I'm feeling self-righteous or have a overwhelming need to control the outcome of a problem I helped to create (hint, hint). The beauty of recovery is that, through practice and application, the spiritual principles that allow us freedom from our addictions also allow us freedom from old ideas and attitudes that never really worked for us anyway....so...the "spirit of recovery" becomes second nature.

Hopefully, one day you'll get there. Keep coming back.

REZ

I think the best thing to do is welcome him back but enter into some kind of agreement with him to pay the money back. I'm all for forgiveness but our program is also about making amends, which needs to do, at some point. I am not in favor of having him arrested. However, I definitely could see bringing law enforcement into this if it were more money at a higher level of organization, e.g. stealing $10,000 from WSO.

calabash

Calling the cops in is just not an option. For many of the reasons Gary mentioins. Like I said in my first post, in active addiction I stole. Like was pointed out this happens sometimes in NA. We are addicts, some of us relapse. But applying spiritual principals is the key.

My main worry was he had not owend up. Now he has. He is back in a long term rehab. He has no money. He said he will pay it back whern he can. The rest is up to him. Its his amend that must be made. I have learnt in the rooms if I lend someone money, I must consider giving it to them. I have learnt that we are all one call from relapse. No one is ever safe from the disease. We must remain ever vigilant. Most importantly I have learnt to accept people as they are, and not to judge. I too was a thief a short while ago.

I think I had to come to terms with one of the people I lookewd up to as an example of recovery working, picking up again. I think my feeling spoke to the fear that we need to be ever vigilant. Thisd disease is both cunning and patient.

Thanks for letting me share

Doug

I was at a Meeting last night Calabash, were evidently the same thing has happened more than once I guess. The Meeting itself is still alive and well, hopefully, your's stays intact too.

SlymJim

Hi, Im Jim. New here. I can say that I believe you should forgive him...however just because you forgive somebody doesnt mean you should not hold them accountable for their actions. Its a strange way to think, as if you don't forgive him, but second chances are what most of us are about.

The difference between a person who was given a second chance and EARNED a second chance is the difference between someone who stays clean and someone who doesn't, or so I have seen...Im not expert, Im here to talk about this stuff just as much as anyone else.

But just the same, I was given 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th chances and I blew it each time. Now that I am supported, and forgiven, I have to continue on my OWN path to recovery, cut my own swath and lead my own path. If I look back, people will be there to lend a shoulder or a shove, but not to hold my feet off the ground while I use them like a swing, as a child does....(think little kid between the parents)

So forgive him....help him through this, but make him earn back what he has lost through his escapade.

Just my thoughts.

SaTiT

i fogive him ,but I'll still let him know..it's not right.

it's been done in my area serveral times.

beating up on yourself becuase of someone else mistake is not a good idea.
it's okay to be angery...you're angery, don't deny that.
Find a healthy way to release your anger or the negative energy
so you will not carry that baggage inside of you.
life is unfair...it is what it is.
We don't have to react to a bad situation like we use to.
Think of it as an opportunity to practice and apply what you have learned.
Well you know , i didn't wait up with love, paitent and tolerance.
i had to learned how to practice it and it didn't happened over nite.
Now you know why , recovery is not boring.lol

or you're getting a better understanding of step #8 and #9...it's not about him.
It's about your recovery. i hate growning pain..lol

daydream

Curious for an update, Calabash, if you care to oblige.

calabash

HI Daydream,

Well, he fessed up as mentioned, is in a long term rehab, has no dime to repay. No one seems that bothered about it, except me maybe. I have certainly forgiven him, I too was a thief in active addiction.

He was an old timer in a young na group. I guess it really gets me that he still taslk all the time in meetings and has a very big ego.

I have learnt that i must resolve resentments in them rooms as they can affect my recovery.

So I am struggling with this indfividual I think. He is so unrepentant, like that is what addicts do! Its a disease and all.

I try not to judger, but understand the programme slightly differently in terms of hasving to take responsability, and focus on keeping myself clean.

It is disapointiong to a relative newbie like me to see the depth of addiction sometimes. I good reason to remain vigilant.

SaTiT

I'm glad you're posting and talking about it, so it won't eat you up inside.
Sometimes I have to go home from an NA meeting and pray becuase
some recovering addicts t me off.

I learned early on not to put anyone on a pedistal.

We all judge wheater we like it or not..we have to evaluate sometimes.
I try not to condem.

but the truth of the matter is, no matter what has happen
I feel what I feel. it's my emotions or anger that's inside of me
and not anyone else. I try my best not to put my emotions
into someone else hands. Forgiveness is oneway of release that
anger from inside of me. i forgive others for myself actaully.

I guess the way i understand it is...if i don't judge , forgivness
is not requirement

Sometimes i don't feel spiriatual so I use this tool that's been passed on to me
"nobody pays rent in my head"

you're clean and sober so you must be doing something right.