When is too much?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: williston,fl
Posts: 35
When is too much?
Please help me!
My husband is in outpatient treatment for alcohol and drug abuse. He just recently became serious about his recovery and finally decided to include me completely in his life. Although he has a long way to go in his recovery and we have a long way to go in repairing our marriage, we both could not be happier.
However, his mother has been a major problem in his recovery, as well as our marriage. She has just come to "her terms" with his addiction, and has completely pushed me away. Even when my husband was angry and isolating himself from me, she would have nothing to do with me either. I feel like she helped him keep his distance from me. Thank God he had a complete change in heart and realized the errors of his ways.
One way to prove that he is being completely honest, my husband has signed all the release forms for me to be a complete part of his treatment. Meaning that if I call his counselor and ask any question, she has the permission to give me an answer pertaining to him.
As of yesterday, his counselor told him that his mom called her and left a message to return her call. The counselor had not yet called his mom because she did not know what my husband wanted her to do or say. My husband then signed all the release forms for his mom to have permission to everything as well and gave the counselor permission to talk to his mom and disclose any information asked.
My problem is this...
Isn't this giving his mom too much power and control with his life? I feel that as husband and wife, we should be an open book with honesty and trust, but this should not be the same terms between mother and son. Am I being too jealous? My husband offered to retract the forms giving permission to his mom, but I told him not to and that I would deal with my frusterations.
My husband is in outpatient treatment for alcohol and drug abuse. He just recently became serious about his recovery and finally decided to include me completely in his life. Although he has a long way to go in his recovery and we have a long way to go in repairing our marriage, we both could not be happier.
However, his mother has been a major problem in his recovery, as well as our marriage. She has just come to "her terms" with his addiction, and has completely pushed me away. Even when my husband was angry and isolating himself from me, she would have nothing to do with me either. I feel like she helped him keep his distance from me. Thank God he had a complete change in heart and realized the errors of his ways.
One way to prove that he is being completely honest, my husband has signed all the release forms for me to be a complete part of his treatment. Meaning that if I call his counselor and ask any question, she has the permission to give me an answer pertaining to him.
As of yesterday, his counselor told him that his mom called her and left a message to return her call. The counselor had not yet called his mom because she did not know what my husband wanted her to do or say. My husband then signed all the release forms for his mom to have permission to everything as well and gave the counselor permission to talk to his mom and disclose any information asked.
My problem is this...
Isn't this giving his mom too much power and control with his life? I feel that as husband and wife, we should be an open book with honesty and trust, but this should not be the same terms between mother and son. Am I being too jealous? My husband offered to retract the forms giving permission to his mom, but I told him not to and that I would deal with my frusterations.
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
Posts: 3,167
Addiction is a family disease and recovery is also family. But is appears your marriage needs to be part of the recovery process. Which may mean you learn to effectively communicate your needs to both hubby and MIL and not always just subordinate them.
Maybe discuss with counselor and perhaps MIL involvement is just to come for family day or whatever they have at treatment ctr. Leave commun., betw you, couns. + husband sounds the healthiest to me. Maybe hubby also needs to learn to comm better with his mother and tell her what would be approp for the TWO of you.
Putting down the drugs is not recovery is just allows the work to begin.
Good luck to you as you navigate your way Are you in your own Al_anon or Nar-anon
Maybe discuss with counselor and perhaps MIL involvement is just to come for family day or whatever they have at treatment ctr. Leave commun., betw you, couns. + husband sounds the healthiest to me. Maybe hubby also needs to learn to comm better with his mother and tell her what would be approp for the TWO of you.
Putting down the drugs is not recovery is just allows the work to begin.
Good luck to you as you navigate your way Are you in your own Al_anon or Nar-anon
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: California
Posts: 239
How long has your husband been an admitted alcoholic? How long total? This is not a quick fix. If your husband is getting the right treatment he will learn about how the relationships in his life, with you and his mother, can help or hinder his recovery. You should focus on YOU. You need to understand what his disease has done to you and how to help yourself. Only he can help himself so the consent in itself will not help him in his successful recovery.
My advice is to worry about yourself and not his mother. Doesn't matter if she likes you or not it only matters if you are happy with who you are.
Good luck and keep posting!
My advice is to worry about yourself and not his mother. Doesn't matter if she likes you or not it only matters if you are happy with who you are.
Good luck and keep posting!
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Jenn, I have to ask..........................what are you doing for YOU? Have you tried Alanon yet? Or are you getting some private therapy.
Please read all the "stickies" at the top of this forum and the Friends and Families of Substance Abusers.........................we who have been in the throes of addiction, affect our loved ones very badly and they also become ill. There are also some GREAT books that can help you.................two that immediately come to mind are "Codependent No More" and "Under The Influence" both of which are available on Amazon.com. These two will help you tremendously in your own recovery.
It is great that you and your husband are working to reconnect in your marriage, however, at this early stage of his recovery, you can help him most by staying out of HIS RECOVERY and working on your own instead.
Being both a recovering alkie (over 26 years) and a recovering codie (over 23 years) when I first read the above.........................my immediate reaction was "oh goodie, still manipulating, now he can have 'two mommies' not one." You should not NEED to talk to his counselor, unless he says something about his treatment that you do not understand, and I am not even sure then.
I really do think that your trust will return as you see and experience his ACTIONS, not his words. How he treats you at home, how he is taking RESPONSIBILITY for his previous and his current actions, how he is changing.
Please understand, that early in recovery, the alkie's brain is still in fog, and probably feels like "mush". Thus they are still "quacking" when they open their mouths to say anything.......................................tha t's why you will see many on here who say "ACTIONS not words."
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we do care.
Love and hugs,
Please read all the "stickies" at the top of this forum and the Friends and Families of Substance Abusers.........................we who have been in the throes of addiction, affect our loved ones very badly and they also become ill. There are also some GREAT books that can help you.................two that immediately come to mind are "Codependent No More" and "Under The Influence" both of which are available on Amazon.com. These two will help you tremendously in your own recovery.
It is great that you and your husband are working to reconnect in your marriage, however, at this early stage of his recovery, you can help him most by staying out of HIS RECOVERY and working on your own instead.
One way to prove that he is being completely honest, my husband has signed all the release forms for me to be a complete part of his treatment..............................My husband then signed all the release forms for his mom to have permission to everything as well
I really do think that your trust will return as you see and experience his ACTIONS, not his words. How he treats you at home, how he is taking RESPONSIBILITY for his previous and his current actions, how he is changing.
Please understand, that early in recovery, the alkie's brain is still in fog, and probably feels like "mush". Thus they are still "quacking" when they open their mouths to say anything.......................................tha t's why you will see many on here who say "ACTIONS not words."
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we do care.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Green,green grass of home
Posts: 600
One step at a time.One --thing--at a time.
Your man is new into recovery.Can both you and Mom,give him peace?,and work on your issues!!!.I know that im being harsh here.But this man,has alot to deal with,he,s early into recovery,trying to--learn--a new way to live.As hes getting,,{weller if you will,}he will have new tools to deal,with life on lifes terms,and the situations in his life,he will better be able to handel..My suggestion,for whats its worth,is to work on your recovery,your issues with Mom,and for now,give him a break,until he gets on his feet.Alcoholism is a family disease,all have suffered,all need recovery,.No one expects a person in a car accident,to jump out of the hospital bed,immeditally,and get back to work.And so it is with recovery,,it takes time.
My prayers for you and your family,
Your man is new into recovery.Can both you and Mom,give him peace?,and work on your issues!!!.I know that im being harsh here.But this man,has alot to deal with,he,s early into recovery,trying to--learn--a new way to live.As hes getting,,{weller if you will,}he will have new tools to deal,with life on lifes terms,and the situations in his life,he will better be able to handel..My suggestion,for whats its worth,is to work on your recovery,your issues with Mom,and for now,give him a break,until he gets on his feet.Alcoholism is a family disease,all have suffered,all need recovery,.No one expects a person in a car accident,to jump out of the hospital bed,immeditally,and get back to work.And so it is with recovery,,it takes time.
My prayers for you and your family,
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: williston,fl
Posts: 35
I AM working on my recovery. I am reading "Codependency No More", attending classes that teach about codependency and attending al-anon. The ONLY reason I am glad to have access to my husbands treatment process is for the safety of our children. So if he fails a drug test, the counselor has permission to tell me in case he decides to take the kids somewhere. I HAVE NOT called or had private conversations with the counselor, but I do like having the option there in case of safety reasons.
Listen, his recovery is that...HIS RECOVERY. I just feel like his mother is still trying to weasel her way back into our lives to the point she is not welcome and I don't like it. She tends to become empowered by being involved in our relationship. Fine, if she wants to become part of his recovery, then she needs to quit enabling, stop drinking, and back off! All of these have a direct effect on our marriage and me.
I just wanted to know if I was overreacting. I am taking care of myself, but my marriage is part of me; therefore, I have to take care of it as well and that means that boundaries need to be established!
Listen, his recovery is that...HIS RECOVERY. I just feel like his mother is still trying to weasel her way back into our lives to the point she is not welcome and I don't like it. She tends to become empowered by being involved in our relationship. Fine, if she wants to become part of his recovery, then she needs to quit enabling, stop drinking, and back off! All of these have a direct effect on our marriage and me.
I just wanted to know if I was overreacting. I am taking care of myself, but my marriage is part of me; therefore, I have to take care of it as well and that means that boundaries need to be established!
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by jennchip 
I just feel like his mother is still trying to weasel her way back into our lives to the point she is not welcome and I don't like it.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
It sounds like this would be a good issue to work on in joint counseling. Defining the boundaries can be difficult in a damaged marriage and addingthe issues that go along with alcoholism only makes it more difficult.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 596
jennchip, your situation sounds SO similar. My AH is 48. His mother has hated absolutely every woman he has ever been serious with. That includes me for the last 13 years. Nice to my face, but always undermining me. Always trying to put a wedge between me and AH so she can feel more important to him than me. She has never allowed him to be a man. Likewise, he has never stood up to her and told her to bug off. Maybe he doesn't want to. Most like he is afraid to.
I know exactly what you mean though. My AH is also in outpatient rehab. His mother lives in another state!! She is THE most controlling, manipulative, religious, judgemental, gossipy hypocrite I've ever seen. She announced she was coming here to support her son in his rehab. Every time AH is around her, he drinks a ton. Every time I'm around her, she pumps me for information to tell everyone she knows. Even the most benign things she asks me about get twisted all to hell.
I didn't want her to come right now. I am enjoying having AH being sober. We are working our separate programs (me in Al-Anon). I didn't want to risk my peace nor his sobriety, or challenge it just yet. We've only been doing this for a month. She got the message that I didn't want her to come just yet, so she came a week earlier than she originally planned.
I have got to learn to butt out. I didn't speak to her while she was here and that apparently also got her miffed. Overmeddling mothers do no service to their sons when they continue to interfere in their lives after they become adults. They make infantile adult men who continually seek their mother's approval. They get torn between loyalties. They get put in the middle of a battle between the two most important women in his life. Talk about stress!!
Listen, my mother-in-law has 2 sisters whom I've seen less than 4-5 times during the course of my marriage. The 2 sisters don't speak to each other and haven't in years, so there was no conspiracy. Each sister contacted me separately, 6 years apart. Both wanted to know if some of the horrible things they heard about me were true, because they just could not believe what they were hearing. I have 3 stepdaughters. 2 of them have told me some of the most vicious things anyone has ever said about me. My mother-in-law has lied to them to make them hate me over the years. What torture she created for all of us.
Why? Because she HAS to have everyone's attention. She has to be needed. Having others need her is her life source. She creates constant chaos with her mouth. She causes me grief. She causes my AH guilt, stress, fear.
I have to learn how to detach from her and to just pray that someday my AH can figure out his role with her. I feel, like you, that I don't have the tools or that I'm too new in this recovery process to have it all figured out. I did avoid her at all costs during her recent visit and enjoyed my time alone (and at the movies,etc).
But I still can't stand her. I still dream of tossing her into a woodchipper at least once a day. And I realize she will never ever change. I have to change. And it's so hard. But I am tired of carrying the burden of hating her.
Like the others have said. I think she is overstepping her boundaries by interfering. I think your AH is reacting like he's probably been used to reacting for a long time, by complying (which is a sign that he is still a long way from seeing the "mommy" light). And I think you were/are tempted to respond by criticizing what she did.
I believe as we progress in our own recovery, which I do believe will facilitate change in our marriages more than anything we've done so far, we'll be able to simply disengage and allow our AH's to figure it out. And when left to figure it out on their own instead of look to us for guidance (only to resent the hell out of it the next time they drink), hopefully they'll figure it out.
I hear your pain though. You don't know how many times I've wanted to scream to my AH to get off the tit. Harsh I know, but it frustrates the hell out of me.
I know exactly what you mean though. My AH is also in outpatient rehab. His mother lives in another state!! She is THE most controlling, manipulative, religious, judgemental, gossipy hypocrite I've ever seen. She announced she was coming here to support her son in his rehab. Every time AH is around her, he drinks a ton. Every time I'm around her, she pumps me for information to tell everyone she knows. Even the most benign things she asks me about get twisted all to hell.
I didn't want her to come right now. I am enjoying having AH being sober. We are working our separate programs (me in Al-Anon). I didn't want to risk my peace nor his sobriety, or challenge it just yet. We've only been doing this for a month. She got the message that I didn't want her to come just yet, so she came a week earlier than she originally planned.
I have got to learn to butt out. I didn't speak to her while she was here and that apparently also got her miffed. Overmeddling mothers do no service to their sons when they continue to interfere in their lives after they become adults. They make infantile adult men who continually seek their mother's approval. They get torn between loyalties. They get put in the middle of a battle between the two most important women in his life. Talk about stress!!
Listen, my mother-in-law has 2 sisters whom I've seen less than 4-5 times during the course of my marriage. The 2 sisters don't speak to each other and haven't in years, so there was no conspiracy. Each sister contacted me separately, 6 years apart. Both wanted to know if some of the horrible things they heard about me were true, because they just could not believe what they were hearing. I have 3 stepdaughters. 2 of them have told me some of the most vicious things anyone has ever said about me. My mother-in-law has lied to them to make them hate me over the years. What torture she created for all of us.
Why? Because she HAS to have everyone's attention. She has to be needed. Having others need her is her life source. She creates constant chaos with her mouth. She causes me grief. She causes my AH guilt, stress, fear.
I have to learn how to detach from her and to just pray that someday my AH can figure out his role with her. I feel, like you, that I don't have the tools or that I'm too new in this recovery process to have it all figured out. I did avoid her at all costs during her recent visit and enjoyed my time alone (and at the movies,etc).
But I still can't stand her. I still dream of tossing her into a woodchipper at least once a day. And I realize she will never ever change. I have to change. And it's so hard. But I am tired of carrying the burden of hating her.
Like the others have said. I think she is overstepping her boundaries by interfering. I think your AH is reacting like he's probably been used to reacting for a long time, by complying (which is a sign that he is still a long way from seeing the "mommy" light). And I think you were/are tempted to respond by criticizing what she did.
I believe as we progress in our own recovery, which I do believe will facilitate change in our marriages more than anything we've done so far, we'll be able to simply disengage and allow our AH's to figure it out. And when left to figure it out on their own instead of look to us for guidance (only to resent the hell out of it the next time they drink), hopefully they'll figure it out.
I hear your pain though. You don't know how many times I've wanted to scream to my AH to get off the tit. Harsh I know, but it frustrates the hell out of me.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: williston,fl
Posts: 35
You know, my husband has done excellent in his treatment for the past month. He has come clean about everything. There are no more lies and dishonesty haunting his path. To make this clear, he gave me full access to all his records in treatment, drug test results and all (this was also a stipulation that my attorney asked for during mediation for temporary custody/support).
Believe it or not, he has "cut the apron strings" when it comes to his mom. I trully believe the reason he gave his mom complete access to his records as well, was to continue with the "honesty" thing and hide nothing. He is still new to this whole process of letting his mom go, so I know he is bound to make mistakes.
I know he is trying really hard to prove he is being open and honest for our marriage to work as well as continue his sobriety. I think it is down right inappropriate and wrong of his mom to meddle where she does not belong. She needs to let him be and let us be. If there is anything he needs her to know or that I need her to know, it should be up to us to tell her.
The bible does say that when you marry, you leave your parents and become one with your spouse. Well we are one, and there is no room for his mom in this marriage. I think she has overstepped her boundary by calling the counselor.
Believe it or not, he has "cut the apron strings" when it comes to his mom. I trully believe the reason he gave his mom complete access to his records as well, was to continue with the "honesty" thing and hide nothing. He is still new to this whole process of letting his mom go, so I know he is bound to make mistakes.
I know he is trying really hard to prove he is being open and honest for our marriage to work as well as continue his sobriety. I think it is down right inappropriate and wrong of his mom to meddle where she does not belong. She needs to let him be and let us be. If there is anything he needs her to know or that I need her to know, it should be up to us to tell her.
The bible does say that when you marry, you leave your parents and become one with your spouse. Well we are one, and there is no room for his mom in this marriage. I think she has overstepped her boundary by calling the counselor.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 596
"The bible does say that when you marry, you leave your parents and become one with your spouse. Well we are one, and there is no room for his mom in this marriage."
One of my stepdaughters repeated to me that she was in church with my ever so religious (in the worst sense of the word) mother-in-law, and asked if her dad was to love me as Christ loved the church. MIL responded, "Not if she's the devil."
Nice.
Going to take some real work on your AH's behalf. I know those strings are strong.
One of my stepdaughters repeated to me that she was in church with my ever so religious (in the worst sense of the word) mother-in-law, and asked if her dad was to love me as Christ loved the church. MIL responded, "Not if she's the devil."
Nice.
Going to take some real work on your AH's behalf. I know those strings are strong.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: williston,fl
Posts: 35
My husband found out tonight why his mom had called the counselor. She said that she just wanted to introduce herself. What a joke! She was weasling her way in. My husband is furious and feels that she has manipulated him.
He had invited her to family night tonight, so that he could open some lines of communication for establishing boundaries. He thought that within his small treatment group it would be a safe place to do this. Anyways, family night did not go as planned and she made several responses that were lies, manipulation and showed lack of support.
Afterwards, she asked him if treatment was really working for him. This is his 10th week of treatment and he has come so far, of course treatment is working for him!!!
She would never pose this question to him in front of me. She is still thinking that he is not serious and going to come running to her. Yes, I know that she is responding off of past experience, but she is too blind to see that he has changed his whole life.
By the way...she is an alcohol abuser as well and in serious denial that she has a problem. So everything she is doing, is based on her denial of herself.
He had invited her to family night tonight, so that he could open some lines of communication for establishing boundaries. He thought that within his small treatment group it would be a safe place to do this. Anyways, family night did not go as planned and she made several responses that were lies, manipulation and showed lack of support.
Afterwards, she asked him if treatment was really working for him. This is his 10th week of treatment and he has come so far, of course treatment is working for him!!!
She would never pose this question to him in front of me. She is still thinking that he is not serious and going to come running to her. Yes, I know that she is responding off of past experience, but she is too blind to see that he has changed his whole life.
By the way...she is an alcohol abuser as well and in serious denial that she has a problem. So everything she is doing, is based on her denial of herself.
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Originally Posted by jennchip
By the way...she is an alcohol abuser as well and in serious denial that she has a problem. So everything she is doing, is based on her denial of herself.
BINGO!
No wonder she is not feeling too kindly towards you........I have been there (still am with a few),too.
Detatchment sounds in order!
Good luck!
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
So your alcoholic/drug addict husband has FINALLY decided to include you fully in his life, his interfering family doesn't like you, and you have continuing fears that he will be under the influence when he's supervising your children, and you "couldn't be happier."
I hope you'll continue to go to Alanon, learn all you can about addiction and co-dependency, and perhaps find a good counselor because my idea of happiness doesn't include anything along those lines any more.
I wouldn't worry too much about what your husband is doing these days or what his mother is doing either. I'd be worried about what it is about you that you find yourself in this situation and you still claim "I couldn't be happier."
I hope you'll continue to go to Alanon, learn all you can about addiction and co-dependency, and perhaps find a good counselor because my idea of happiness doesn't include anything along those lines any more.
I wouldn't worry too much about what your husband is doing these days or what his mother is doing either. I'd be worried about what it is about you that you find yourself in this situation and you still claim "I couldn't be happier."
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Posts: 35
FormerDoormat...
If you only knew where my life had been, yes I am happy and hopeful for a happier future. Finally having a marriage where so far, we are on each others side and seeing eye to eye, is a good thing. However, I WILL continue to take care of myself, and hope my marriage keeps blooming.
I don't care about my in-laws disliking me. As far as I am concerned, they are no longer important, but I would be fooling myself thinking that. My MIL is still my husbands mother and is slowly starting to be pushed out of our life by him. Eventhough, I don't care if they like me or not, that is not my concern. My concern is the meddling.
As for trusting if my husband is sober enough to handle our children, yeah that's tough. Guess what? He is sober right now in this moment and that is what counts. We are each taking it day by day...moment by moment and enjoying the happiness life gives us right now. If he falls off the wagon tomorrow, I will deal with it then.
As for now, I am happy and hopeful. This may not be somebody else's form of happiness, but as I said before, we have come far from where our marriage was.
If you only knew where my life had been, yes I am happy and hopeful for a happier future. Finally having a marriage where so far, we are on each others side and seeing eye to eye, is a good thing. However, I WILL continue to take care of myself, and hope my marriage keeps blooming.
I don't care about my in-laws disliking me. As far as I am concerned, they are no longer important, but I would be fooling myself thinking that. My MIL is still my husbands mother and is slowly starting to be pushed out of our life by him. Eventhough, I don't care if they like me or not, that is not my concern. My concern is the meddling.
As for trusting if my husband is sober enough to handle our children, yeah that's tough. Guess what? He is sober right now in this moment and that is what counts. We are each taking it day by day...moment by moment and enjoying the happiness life gives us right now. If he falls off the wagon tomorrow, I will deal with it then.
As for now, I am happy and hopeful. This may not be somebody else's form of happiness, but as I said before, we have come far from where our marriage was.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Green,green grass of home
Posts: 600
Our begiings didnt look "nice" in other peoples eyes either,jennchip.It was tough,but we came through,through God,s Grace.
But ya know one day at a time,we got there,to where a hopeless,marriage,bloomed into something beautiful.
Keep on,keeping on,
the best is yet to be,
But ya know one day at a time,we got there,to where a hopeless,marriage,bloomed into something beautiful.
Keep on,keeping on,
the best is yet to be,
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