CE Girl

Do you lie to others in AA?

You go to meetings, stand in the back, really aren't listening, but "know" some of the people in the room. Your "working your program" But when one of those people asks, "when was your last drink" You lie

You got a "favorite' meeting once a week. I mean, this meeting INSPIRES you. You can't wait to talk about it. There's a glow about you. Dare I say, full of the spirits (hp). When asked when was your last drink, you lie

Why?

Ok, I know the "standard' answer. Because your truly not "working the program" right?

If that's the case, then why bother?

Dellusional? Do you think no one knows?

And how in the world do you come to terms with making the EFFORT to go to these meetings, and lie so you aren't really benefitting?

Is there such a thing as "wishful thinking" to the point you actually BELIEVE your doing something productive?

Can you work a program half way?

When do you realize its impossible?

And how do other A's react, cause they surely know their being ummmm,,,excuse my language, BSed?!?!?!

Hey, what can I say, I'm inquisitive tonight

Peace

DesertEyes

Hey there CE,

I used to be that way. Before I quit drinking I used to hang around AA meets doing what you describe. Let me answer today the way I used to be 30 years ago.

nope

nope. I had lied all my life. I lied to survive as a child and then I lied to survive as a teenager. I lied to myself because if I believed what my parents had brainwashed into me I would have killed myself. I did not know how to _not_ lie.

With tolerance and compassion, because they had once been just like me.

Because the people at those meetings had something I had never experienced in my life. They were _happy_. They laughed from the heart. They _accepted_ themselves. Their lives were full and rich and joyous. They had found what I desperately craved for, and they found it _without_ booze.

It took me three years of hanging around meets and getting DT's in a trash dumpster before I finally figured out that I truly could be like them. That's when I began to learn how to speak truth, to disregard the lies of my parents, to accept myself as a normal human being, to believe that I deserved a small measure of peace in my life.

Now can I ask a question of you?

Why do you ask? Is there somebody in your life who is acting this way?

Mike

CE Girl

I got a two part answer for that DesertEyes,,,(love the name by the way, reminds me of the yellow of a gray wolf)

Yes, there is someone (not in my life at the moment) that acts that way,,,

And since i've become involved in my own recovery, I honestly was trying to figure out why they bother. It's like me going to al anon meetings and not being honest. What's the freakin point?!?! I understand your explanation of the "feel" the environment gives you and how you WISHED it could be you, I feel the same way with my al anon family. But not once did I think I wouldn't have to DO THE WORK to acheive that. But hey, thats just me.

You know whats funny though. Said person has accused ME of being dishonest in my meeting and dealings with my support system in my recovery. How he would know that is beyond me, since I haven't SEEN or TALKED to him in 3 months and he does NOT attend any of my meetings/therapy sessions. I wonder where he got that idea?!?!?

And you know what else? It sad that someone could have that much PAIN in their cores to stand on the outside looking in, waiting and hoping to be part of that "circle of life".

Peace

Emimily

Do you lie to others in AA?

no. you're right, what good would it do me?

You go to meetings, stand in the back, really aren't listening, but "know" some of the people in the room. Your "working your program" But when one of those people asks, "when was your last drink" You lie

i don't.

You got a "favorite' meeting once a week. I mean, this meeting INSPIRES you. You can't wait to talk about it. There's a glow about you. Dare I say, full of the spirits (hp). When asked when was your last drink, you lie

Why?

Ok, I know the "standard' answer. Because your truly not "working the program" right?

If that's the case, then why bother?

Dellusional? Do you think no one knows?

And how in the world do you come to terms with making the EFFORT to go to these meetings, and lie so you aren't really benefitting?

Is there such a thing as "wishful thinking" to the point you actually BELIEVE your doing something productive?

yeah... there is. it's sick, but it happens. this is a disease of perception... deluding ourselves is something we're great at.

Can you work a program half way?

When do you realize its impossible?

when you try to really recover halfway.

And how do other A's react, cause they surely know their being ummmm,,,excuse my language, BSed?!?!?!

i can only speak for myself here. as an alcoholic, if i know in my gut i'm being lied to, i try to calm my breathing and drop my resentment that moment. i try to remember that they're sick too, and accept them with love and tolerance. and that's it. i let it go. it's hard, esp. when it's someone i love, but i can't change it.

Hey, what can I say, I'm inquisitive tonight

Peace

asking is what it's all about. peace back atcha.

Cynay

It is sad that people have that much pain in their core.... I was one of them as well.

Like Deserteyes I grew up in a raging Alcoholic home that was not safe. If I had been honest our family probaby would have been seperated. I cant tell you how many times I lied to teachers and social service workers regarding bruises, burns, attitudes etc.... I learned to lie probably from birth and I learned that I was not a acceptable human as I was and had to "become" the person they wanted and quickly if I was to survive.

There is a lizzard that changes colors to match the background ... Chamiel? something like that and yes I cant spell... that is the defence system that nature gave it to survive ... well I learned to read people to pay attention to the slightest shift in mood, to the enviroment, and I learned as a small child to change my colors in a heartbeat... again a survival tool.... I cant change like that without being a remarkable lier... I lie to them and I lie to myself so I could live with myself, though it does cause HUGE issues to a persons emotional/mental health.

As an adult I have been in some form of recovery for more then 25 years... It has taken more then 13 of them to even figure out who I was... my whole life has been changing to meet the needs and expectations of other people ... something I still struggle with today. Its not a like I decide to do it... for me its like breathing. So when I walked into the rooms of Al-anon I lied. I became what I saw others be, I became what made my sponsor happy (I thought), I lied about really feeling the steps and recovery...... It was not ment to Deceive and Im not always aware Im doing it at the time.... but later when I actually think about it I see it clearly today...

The problem is I dont want them to know me, if they did they would not want to have anything to do with me... I still have the foundation layed when I was a child ... Im basically unacceptable and as a individual unwanted. I was only of value if I was what they wanted. I have to consciously think about what I want, what I need, what is healthy for me and then set my boundries.... The first time my sponsor asked me to do something that I did not want too I had to really sit and think about it all I struggled with it over a month before I said no I did not feel that was best for me... That was tough and today I can see it was the right choice for me and the lessons I have needed to learn but to actually trust myself and stand up for my wants/needs is still a choice with me, it is not an automatic reaction.... I still have the fears and tendency to hide myself.... to stand on the outside looking in, waiting and hoping to be a part of that "circle of life" and there are times that it is too scary to put myself out there and try... Im the great isolator, that is when I feel safe.

I explain it like this..... Im like a burn victim, but my scares are on the inside. In the beginning it hurts so bad you will do anything to stop the pain... and develope coping skills just to get through the next hour.... after it starts initially healing you dont trust that the intense pain will not come back, it still hurts deeply but you start to move around some... all the time keeping my survival skills in full force... later when the burn heals, it becomes a scar and often feelings are lost when the healing starts... The victim looks in the mirror and does not see the beauty within, only the scars on the outside.... When I look into the mirror I dont see the beauty, I see the scars but mine are not the physical looks.... those scars are who I am.... the me inside. They say happiness is an inside job and I honestly feel that is so true... It does not matter what other people say or how much they try to show me the beauty ... because inside I see scars that I hide and because I hide them... they dont know the real me.... It is a horrible/painful cycle.

MsPINKAcres

Thanks CE,

I'm not an A, but I am married to an alcoholic/addict. He picked up his 4yr sobriety chip in February. He is very active in his home AA group, even has had a couple of sponsees for a little while.

BUT, I'm married to him and I see him at night when he is under the influence. I see the behaviors of the man who is abusing prescription drugs and gambling out of control.

It has been difficult living in this for the past 9 months or so. I'm doing well taking care of me, working my program, etc. I have stopped attending Open AA Meetings with him because I can't continue to participate in his lies.

I know it is his path to walk and prayerfully he will find the strength (or weakness however you want to look at it) to get honest with himself, his HP, his sponsor and his program.

I must say tho it is a comfort to know I'm not alone. It has been sad for me living this life again, after having 3 plus yrs of both of us in recovery. That was a very special time for us. I hope that the person you know finds their way back to true recovery also.

So, I know you were looking for input from the A's, but I felt lead to share my experience in this area also. Hope it was ok.

Thanks,
Rita

CE Girl

This thread is taking an interesting turn, as I hoped it would

(((((((((Cynay))))))))),

cha·me·le·on a changeable, fickle, or inconstant person.

I can relate to your post. I too grew up learning to lie as a survial mechanism. Being in a dysfunctional environment, did not give me the skills to be honest. and yes, as an adult, when I finally looked to recovery, it was a "learned behaviour" to become honest. The feeling I began to get from that honesty foreign. but, man, sista, did it FEEL good not to have to track everything I was saying for fear I would "trip myself up". Talk about being FREED!!!!I have to say, this part of my recovery came BEFORE i was involved with an A and I have great admiration for you to have had to deal with BOTH at the same time

I do think theres a difference however, when we're talking about the disease of alcoholism. The person I know who does this, has NO PROBLEM bieng honest with everything else in their lives. Including their alcoholism. Its only recovery they are in denial about. If that makes any sense? It's almost like they can't get to the "embrace", but want to be hugged so bad. I've talked to this person, been in meetings with them and they seem to be able to take their own "inventory" but when asked, when was the last time you used, ALWAYS lie.

Do you find that with your A Japic05? Is he honest with everything ELSE in his life?

Peace

Cynay

Yep that is a huge part of my disease.... that is/was me.

MsPINKAcres

No - He is a true blue liar about anything & everything. Even things that don't really matter. He embellishes stories like crazy!!!

My heart goes out to him as I see the family he was raised in - not the most healthy environment (but heck who was - right?) the majority of his siblings are the same way about the lies/embellishing. And not all A's either.

Silly stuff, like I work 5 hours on baking a cake when it took them 2?????

Does it really matter - it's still cake & it's still good - so why lie?

Thanks to Al-Anon it doesn't drive ME crazy anymore - I just know to discount any story told by any of them.

elizabeth1979

LOL. I think so. I used to do it when I was analyzing why my ex did what he did. I thought it was helpful for my recovery. Turns out, wishful thinking.

best

"Court again?"... was the reply to my saying I was arrested.
"I bet you were drinking."

My reply...
Well yes I maybe had one or two.

Jim knew me well because he knew himself. He didn't call me out on my lie, he just shared his wisdom in hopes I would see the truth.

" Well one or two... as you see... even one or two seems to get you into trouble.'
Every time you have been in trouble... you have been drinking...even if it was only one or two."

Jim knew that my one or two was not one or two beers but more like one or two six packs. Rather then call me out on my lie...he shared the truth of the situation. What he ended up doing... I learned a few facts that day and my respect for Jim grew as my own shame caught me because of my lie.
Jim didn't kick me when I was down...he showed respect and helped me find myself that day.
That was over 30 years ago we had that conversation but I remember it so clearly.
Jim showed respect to someone that didn't deserve it (me) and he made more of an impact on my life in a positive manner then any one else I can think of aside from my wife.

CE Girl

THAT'S what I'm talking about BEST!!!!!

The purpose of the program isn't about honesty or dishonesty, althought I would think things would go quicker if you were honest.

thank the spirits for the "jim's" out there. The A my thread is about has a Peter,,,

With patience and love, Peter shows by his own actions and expereinces compassion and understanding to this A. No judgement.

Maybe he will feel the impact someday also,,,

Peace

fluffyflea

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Just because people are in A.A it doesn't mean they are honest. Honesty is a personal choice. Some people want to recover and some just want to play a game.

Earthworm

minnie

The biggest lies people tell are to themselves. After a lot of reading and listening, I learnt not to take this stuff personally.

I though my ex was hiding bottles from me. He wasn't, he was hiding bottles from himelf. Same stuff, different application.

ritabee

They read this at every open AA meeting in our town (maybe at every meeting everywhere).


"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."


My ABF (or ex-ABF, depends on the day) came out of rehab, collected his 30 day chip that night, then went home and got drunk. Drank for a week until he got yet another DUI. Attended 2 meetings a week, one regular and one open. Went to the rehab aftercare. Drank to the point of being drunk at least once a week. Said he "got a lot out of his meetings". Couldn't do 90 meetings in 90 days because he had "other priorities". I told him without sobriety being the first priority he had nothing else. He said he had to work the program "his way".

Fast forward to today. Last AA meeting was April 22. Last aftercare meeting (which we attended together) was 5 weeks ago. Everyone in aftercare shared stories about their slips and relapses and how they had to change their thinking and how well they were doing. ABF? Lies. All lies. Nothing about the DUI. Nothing about going to jail on weekends for 15 weeks. Nothing about the relapses. And I just sat there and kept quiet, all the time losing respect for him and gaining respect for the others who were honest with the group, but most of all with themselves.

I truly believe that my ABF is incapable of being honest with himself. He is unable to surrender totally to the program. He wants to be sober but he doesn't want to quit drinking and still thinks he can control it. And he drinks more and more often, in greater and greater quantities.

I believe my ABF went to AA and the aftercare to find an easy way out. Somebody at one of these meetings was going to tell him how to get sober and still enjoy the occasional beer. He never got a sponsor because he knew that a sponsor would see right through him and if the sponsor ever had any doubts and talked to me, I would not cover for him. I would be brutally honest. He took some things from AA, like "take what you like and leave the rest"... and he left most of it. He learned just enough about AA to manipulate the slogans and beliefs and try to use them to justify his drinking.

Stinkin' thinking at its best (worst).

MsGolightly

mine ex is too. i think this is part of their sickness... believing the lies or untruths that they think or say, until the point that it becomes their truth. denial is a very powerful force, and not being honest with themselves allows them to not admit what they've done or are doing is hurting themselves and anyone who cares about them. it's a lot easier to be ignorant.

ps they also read that paragraph at the meetings i've been to.

denny57

I think a lot of it has to do with not understanding the physiology of it. With society implying how weak I am, and how easy it is to just stop, I think I'd tell myself a whole bunch of lies, too. Much like I did while living with alcoholism. I wouldn't call it ignorance; the word desperate comes to mind. It's an extremely baffling disease.

GlassPrisoner

That will change.

That won't.

Actually, I've been brutally honest in my program. I was so desperate, that I didn't care about saving face. I had to save my a**. It was only when I had no one to turn to, and no where else to go, I walked (literally, both of my cars were broken down) into AA.

CarolD

The only sober time I am responsible for is
My Own

I have never lied to anyone about it.

Just as you are responsible for your personal recovery
so am I.

Take care...

Tazman53

Do you lie to others in AA?
No.

You go to meetings, stand in the back, really aren't listening, but "know" some of the people in the room. Your "working your program" But when one of those people asks, "when was your last drink" You lie
N/A

You got a "favorite' meeting once a week. I mean, this meeting INSPIRES you. You can't wait to talk about it. There's a glow about you. Dare I say, full of the spirits (hp). When asked when was your last drink, you lie
N/A

Why?
N/A

Ok, I know the "standard' answer. Because your truly not "working the program" right?
Yes.
If that's the case, then why bother?

I will say that I know of one guy who spent 13 years coming to meetings drunk, he had a sponsor and even had service positions, something must have sunk in, he has been sober the last three years, but to my knowledge he did not lie about his drinking. What Deserteyes said I feel may be true, but it was not my experience.

Dellusional?

Maybe.
Do you think no one knows? I don't know, but I do know I can spot someone who is still practicing.

And how in the world do you come to terms with making the EFFORT to go to these meetings, and lie so you aren't really benefitting?

N/A

Is there such a thing as "wishful thinking" to the point you actually BELIEVE your doing something productive?

N/A

Can you work a program half way?

No

When do you realize its impossible?

???

And how do other A's react, cause they surely know their being ummmm,,,excuse my language, BSed?!?!?!

Knowing what they are going through we are very tolerant, we are there when they are ready to get honest with them selfs.