SaTiT

nope..i use to go to AA drunk..
you can smell the alcohol on me easily..
I didn't care..I didn't care about alot of things..mmm everything.
I didn't have to hind my drinking or using.
it was around me everywhere, at home, at work, at play.

poeple try to give a 24 hr chip all the time at first.
and even my nice grandsponsor would get fustrated
at me. It's was the rebellious part of me. You couldn't
make me do anything...don't even try..cuz you're
just fooling yourself or i 'll fool you..

if you really want to know...I love my ex-wife
very much...but she just got on my damn nerves.
nag..nag..nag..She wasn't like that when I first met
her. Well i was drinking and partying a lot when I met
her, she'll get drunk with me too. Well after we got
married, everything changed. She quit her job,
she quit going to school. She freaken quit her life.
She made me quit my band. But i love her so much..
then here comes the I had to changed for her and stuff.
Well I quit my band..music, something i love verymuch.
i gave that up for her...
It was like she had an image in her head of what a
perfect marriage should be..Instead of just being ouselves.
She was the pretties gals any man can dream for..but
she was jealouse as heck. Coming home and having
to sit still or tried to fit into her picture of what a marriage
should be like..drove me out of my freaken mind.
i really, really needed to get f-up..And we never seem
to have a shortage of booze in the house..She did the
shoping...maybe she was as much of an alki as I was..
I don't know...but she then she'll trun around and
tell me i had a drinking problem.

That's why...people don't tell me to do things in AA
No expectations out of me.
Yeap..I sat in the back of the rooms of AA.
I observe if it was going to be the same old, same old.
I was told when to sleep, when to eat, when to breath,
when to feel, how to feel, what to belive, what not to belive
all my life ...AA was different.

Delusional ?
mmm..i was in the twiglight zone or comprehenceable
demoralazations...i didn't what to live on planet earth
even more

I went to AA becuase no one made me.
no court cards, no naging ex-wife.
No rehab counselor wacthing me in a meeting.

Yes..I hit bottom big time, but in the depth of hell,
there I had hope...
the last sentence is from the BB...it's sometime
i can relate to...I read the book.
As insane as i was...reading stuff like that made
me feel sane.
its when someone breaks down
and go into pieces and tell it like it is..
They tell of what i feel inside all those years.
And I oberseve them getting well.
They gave me hope and maybe someday I'll get the
courage to do the same....i saw something.
i wanted that peace.

CE Girl

I think the spirits cloned the A's?!?!?!?But then again, some of us codies are attached at the hip also,,,

Some of us get knocked over the head, others get brought down not so gently,so never expereince it at all,,,

Now for some of MY codie brutal honesty.

LIARS drive me NUTS. And frankly, it discredits them in my eyes. They do not garner respect OR acknowledgement from me. Except for my A

I think one of the MAJOR symptoms of MY disease is the inability and the injustice I see in letting him get away with one. and ADMITTING that he is in fact, lieing. I've never really been able to explain why, although, in my "recovery" I have a good idea, just not ready to blurt it out yet,,lol.

For some reason, i seemed to grapple with validating his lies. They were never truly "outright" in my head. Even as he stood before me, swaying on his feet, glazed look in his eyes and babbling gibberish. When I asked, "have you been drinking" and he would say, "no CE Girl, geez, I'm sick of you twisitng about this", I'd try to not see it as a lie. Does that make ANY sense?!?!? I'd contiue to try and "prove" the lie, by smelling his breathe, following him around the house, QUAKCING at him the whole time to "tell the truth" The more he denied, the more I'd try to force it. Never TRULY beleiveing he was drunk!!! No wonder I was a few cards shy of a full deck in the end.

Every once in a while he'd get so SICK of listening to me, or DRUNK to know any better and he'd get his hidden bottle and THROW it at me. That would devestate me. Cause HE ended up validating his lie, not me,,,,

WoW

Anyone else find this?

Is this a co dependant phenominum? And if so any insight as to why?

Peace

SaTiT

I'm sorry CE..it's crazy living under the same roof
with an active alcoholic..Me butting my head against
the wall with my gf never got me anywhere except for
insanity.

Just my esh..it sucks in a way
the only way I was about to get sober was becuase
i had no one around anymore...especailly my ex-wife.
i don't really blame today her or hate her today.
You how it was to be on the other side of the street.lol
it was just, I didn't understand alcoholism.
If i truely was awear, grasp or had the knowelge of alcoholism
at that time. maybe things might had been different.
But I didn't and alcoholism took me down a dark lonely
road.

The only way i was able to let go of my GF..
Was to find myself alone again..which totally blew me away.
cuz i felt like I was attach to her by the hips too.
We spend everyday togehter. For years and years.
I go freaken crazy just becuase she gose on a bussiness
trip for a night.

I mean accepting i was an alcoholic was hard enough..
Then ten years later..i find myself trying the accept
I was a codi too..which was totally wickage and hard
for me to grasp.
I never thought recovery was going to be like this for me.
If i saw 15 years into the future back when...holy schmoly..
i would really had to go get wacked out of my mind.lol
I figure if i get clean and sober work my alki program
everything would be hunky durie. it didn't truned out
that way. So I stopped making plans...

chero

CE, that made me laugh. I've so done that. Try to prove if he was or wasn't being honest. He never was being honest and once I realized that I had to deal with myself.

I remember the first day I went without asking him if he was drinking was huge for me. I thought I'd die before I made it through the day.

But now I'm back to wanting to prove he is lieing to me. WHY do we need that validation?? Seriously...they lie. It's what they do!!

CE Girl

Me too Sista,,me too,,,,

I am FIRMLY convinced it is my "illness". The addidciton to the addict. I don't see him, I don't talk to him, but yet, I know he is still lying. How? Ok, your really gonna think I'm a whack a doo, but I'l be upfront and honest about HOW,,

The spirits tell me

I think its their way of trying to let me know, I am continuing ot do the RIGHT thing.

I'm very serious.

Take last night for instance. Here I am, happy as a lark running on the beach, when all of a sudden, ~wham~ its in my head. A is drinking. I could "see" it. Him getting home, with his bottle, doing the thing he does best, drinking, hibernating and getting a ring around his arse from the pity pot.

How do I KNOW this?!?!?

I had no reason to think anything. I exchanged one email with him yesterday. we haven't spoken or seen each other for 3 months

My mind was on the TRILLION things I had to do when I went for my run. Not ONE of them had anything to do with him.

but I just know!!!!

And another thing, I have a sister who is on shaky ground with her recovery, an older brother who is an active A, and I NEVER just "know" when they are using.

Ya, I've had karma about them before, but usually only when its a cirsis.

So, am I to belevie my addiction to the addict is specialized?!?!?!?Sorry,,but that makes even ME laugh,,,,

SO, WHY does it make me NUTS to know he's still active and lying threw his teeth, even in the midsts of DETACHMENT?!?!?!

NOTHINGS ever freakin hunky dorie SaTIT,,,

PEACE

ontrackagain

lying is not helping. But I give it to them for still attending.

ritabee

I too am a truth seeker. I hate the lies and I feel like he is playing me for a fool. If I don't question it then he thinks he got away with it. I KNOW when he's lying and I've felt that by calling him on the lie then at least he knows that I'm on to him. He may fool everyone else but he doesn't fool me.

However, I still get lies and denials and if I pursue the topic, eventually I get the blame too for not "trusting" him. Geez! But I'm stubborn and I've told him I WILL NOT dummy down for him or anyone. And really, what's the point of lying about something I know already?

Beating my head against a brick wall.....over and over and over and over.....gets me nowhere and I know better. The reality is, if he told me today was Friday, then I would be convinced it was not. That's how much he lies and the meaningless things he lies about. Makes me wonder when he says "I love you"........

cmc

CE,
This is a great thread. About the lying... I had to 'know' too and for me it was all about being in control. My reasoning was that by owning up to the truth things were somehow being made right. The hurt was being undone and I was receiving my due...an apology of sorts. On the other hand- when I knew in my gut what the truth was, just like you sensed it- finding the truth validated my intuition and gave me permission to do and feel all the negative codie stuff. It was like thinking 'see, I told you so' in my mind whether I said it out loud or not didn't matter. That's how it was for me.

CE Girl

CMC THANK YOU,,I coulda wrote this myself. You did a better job though,,, lol

AndI still find myelf wanting that "apology" As often as today,,,

Got all twisted cause I KNOW he is lying and it drives me nuts. I want to say "see I told you so" To who is the question?

To him?

or

To me?

Interesting question. Of course, I want HIM to realize he's lying. That takes the focus offa me~gulp~

But lets be honest here. I was the one who needed to know, "see I told you so"

ALmost like I had to keep knocking into my head till I got it

See I told you so that it isn't gonna change, unless YOU change it
See I told you so he has a disease that he is doing nothing about except lying to himself and expecting you to beleive him
See I told you so that you are getting a "window" to your future
See I told you so even IF he admits it, he will play out the tape and cry his crodile tears and tell you he doesn't know why he did it and beg you to forgive him and swear he will NEVER do it again
See I told you so, your gonna be hiding in a closet while your looking for your "truths"
See I told you so the only way to end it is to walk outta his life and let him fall

Yup, CMC, I was looking for I told you so, and I got it,,,

It wasn't at all what I expected,,,,

Peace

cmc

And...by somebody making the amends and telling the truth it helps me to really know that _I_ am not crazy....that the craziness was all around me although vague and unproven.
A few months ago, out of the blue my son told me that 'one time' when I thought the bank teller had shorted me a fifty dollar bill....that he had taken it. I changed banks because I 'knew' exactly what was in my wallet before I cashed the check...and it was the only time I had ever 'not' counted out the bills before I left the bank. I was so proud of him for owning up to it and relieved to have some closure about what really happened.
You know, I would get more upset at him for lying (about using or anything else) than I would about the actual 'wrong' done. My world was spinning out of control and the constant chaos made my knowing the truth so very important. For me it was not always a bad thing- but a coping mechanism.

CE Girl

((((((CMC)))))))))

You are hitting the nail right on the proverbial HEAD!!!!!

It wasn't so much that he was drinking, but more what I KNEW what it would do for HIS core to tell the simple truth.
Take your son for instance. I bet if you asked him, he felt better for having told you the truth. Owning up to his responsiblity, and, in the simpliest way this hippie chick can put it, being FREE in his conscious about what he did. Taking the consequences for his actions, and learning the lesson. It's a win/win situation for BOTH people and FREEING.

I call it "up front and honest"

It's a "standard" of mine. My spirits teach, "you get what you give". Not to say you expect that everytime you give. But, if your true to your core, up front and honest and can admit your misgivens, you will receive the same in return. It's simple and some say idealistic, but I simply can't settle for less

The rest is fogivable and can be worked on

Which is another point

ADMIT the deed, wake up tomorrow and try again. Becasue you were up front and honest, I will wake up beside you. SUPPORTING not ENABLING you as you continue your journey.

Denying is abusing my support

Again, SIMPLE. Or at least in my idealitic mind it is

I'm interested in what the A's out there think

Is it that "simple" to you?

Peace

dobiediva

Yep. That was always my stand on it too. The drinking didn't bother me HALF as much as the LIES. There is no faster way to kill somebody's trust than to lie to them in my opinion.

cmc

Simple but not easy and for the person making the amend. I need to remember to forgive without the amend though, and then getting an apology or being told the truth is just a bonus- unless it causes harm which is the guideline of when making an amend or confessing is not appropriate.
Step 9
"Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."

SaTiT

CE..
do you ever listen to your boby ?
you know... everytime you make contact. You feel like
you're having a fever or through all the emotional
roller coaster or chaos..you feel that feverish like feeling.

That's what my body tell's me..i pyshically get
sick. but when I go into my enabling mode it gose
away..but i need a fix again the next time.
mmm..do you have pressure in your head ?
you can't eat you can't sleep. and you can't even
think straight or focus. nothing is clear or foggy.

that's how it was for me...that's pretty mess up
epecailly since i wasn't using...it's about as close
to a dry drunk as i can identified with, if there
is such a thing as a dry drunk...the only
problem was...i wasn't catching a buzz and having
all the damn withdraws and consequences.

i'm sorry for what you're going through.

i started to only notice or distinguish the different
my sickness and well after i got well enough.
I had a tasted of being well during our seperations
or my emotional detachment.

barb dwyer

Hi CE -

I tended bar here for almost five years.
There's people in the rooms who claim years of sobriety -
and I served them as recently as last summer.

And they know I know it.

I talked to my sponsor about it, well, actually, she came to me about it right in teh beginning.
I told her I was in AA for my own recovery.
What comeone else claims in there
is between them
and their HP.
It's not only none of my business
but it keeps me honest.
because you KNOW since they know I know they're lying ...
they're just waiting for me to 'mess up' so they can 'prove' something.

What a mess that kind of thinking is.
It's like when you tried to hold more than one ball underwater at the pool.
Just too hard to do.

I'm just staying sober
and trying to figure out what 'well' is.

CE Girl

Yes SaTIT, I actually make a "habit" of it. And your right, this week it has felt "sick"

And I guess I didn't have enough, because today I answered the phone when he called.

I just posted to Dobie's post and realized I misinterprutted the "feel" my spirits were giving me,,

The conversation didn't last long, as he's still QUACKING

Nonethe less, I am even "sicker" now

The good news is, I KNOW the cure. Something that has eluded me in the past.

Keep the boundary, and continue the detachment

CMC,,your so right,,I'm gonna make forgiveness without the amends a priority this weekend

Funny, thing is, he admitted his continued drinking. But is still blaming people, places and things for it. Denial is alive and well. Don't you know, he's gone to crap cause I left him?!?!?!?DUH

Bottom line, let him continue his spiral, I will continue to climb the ladder out,,,

Opposites directions usually finds no crossroads,,,

Hopefully I am coming off my "dry drunk" SaTIT, I cetainly can not listen to any more lies

Peace

Sunlight81

How do you get an A to stop lying?

Stop asking them questions you already know the answer to.

prodigal

I get absolutely NUTS when I KNOW someone is lying to me. And I don't mean a little-white-lie kinda lie. I mean someone who is blurry-eyed and slurring their words and losing control of their facial muscles - kinda twitching. "Are you drunk AGAIN?" "Uh, duh, well, uh ... hmmm ... uh .... lemme see ... nope."

I don't discuss AH's drinking. I don't bring it to his attention. I don't confront him about it. I don't comment on it. I don't go near it. I was crazy outta my mind nuts from going 'round and 'round with him. For my own sanity, I let it go.

cagefree

Yup - been there...done that.

I have had blatant, flashing neon light proof of his lies...I have displayed my proof to him with all the zeal of the world's best court lawyer.

Then one word from him, and I'm doubting if he was lying at all.

He will lie...it's me who has to stop believing everyone around me instead of the intuition in my head screaming to be heard. Then I'm shocked and p1ssed when I'm the victim and betrayed.

Once I quit believing the lies and stop telling myself I'm wrong, that my instincts are wrong, it won't matter what he does - cuz I won't believe it, and his lies will be like little ants under my big combat boots of self-worth.