CASEINPOINT

A new poster - wanted to share my experience in getting "Sober". Been off vodka for over three weeks now. Was drinking every evening about 1/2 - 3/4 of a fifth.(Never drank during the day) It had grown to this amount and I was starting to feel this was too much, 1.75 liters every 4 days...yuck!. Plus was starting to feel like shi# every day. I had fallen into this as a way to relax in the evening, but after FOUR years, it had definitely gotten out of control. Am sharing this as suggestions on the web helped me to go through withdrawal with limited problems using supplements.

Personal - weight 230 - height 6' 3''.

Supplements used - Vitamine b-1(Thiamin), multivitimin, Milk thistle,liverite,unisome, melatonin,Flax seed in the morning

Day 1 friday - had drank about 3/4 fifth thursday night - it was my 41st birthday - knew this was my last night to drink. Morning - felt like Shi#, But akay though day as I never drink during the day.

5:30 - this is the time I would normally start drinking on a friday night - instead had been taking milk thistle and liverite during the day(Helps liver). At six was starting to feel the "aggravated cravings" Took and multivitamine and 300mg of B1(Thiamine). Helped stem the cravings but gave me a ton of energy. Was pacing around house - decided to go for 45 min run - came back and cleaned entire house!! (Wife loved it) At 11:30 took 1 unisome and 2mg of melatonin. (Knew from pervious attempts at
stopping that insomnia would be one of my biggest problems)

Day 2 Sat - Had good night sleep with unisome and melatonin - only woke up once - and fell right back to sleep - probably my best night sleep in awhile. No cravings Saturday during day - went and worked out(Basketball and weights). Sat 5:30 - cravings starting again - took milk thistle and liverite during day. Took again 300mg of B1, and multi - craving aleviated - went to dinner and movie with wife and kids. Home at 10 - trying to watch SNL but can't concentrate due to cravings - take 200mg more of B1. Seems to help guite a bit. 12:00 - take same combo of melatonin and unisome.

Day 3 Sun - wake up feeling pretty good, had another good night sleep - into the worrisome point of withdrawal - am I going to get halluciation or DT's - 96+ hours.(Haven't gone three days without a drink in four years) Take regimine of vitamin's - feel out of sorts during day. Sunday night 6:00 - take the multi and 300mg B1. Cravings still there but not a problem, at 11:00 go to bed, eliminate the unisome, only take 2mg melatonin.

Day 4 Mon - Wake up feeling great, sleep through night, full of energy. Taking regular vitamins as above, except only 100 mg of B1 at 6:00 pm - 1mg of melatonin at night.

Day 5 - No problems, no craving, perhaps opposite, thought of a going back to drinking actually makes me ill - don't want to feel like shi# anymore. Stop all nightime sleeps aids - sleep well without.

Day 6 till present - no problems, no drinks! Taking normal doses of vitimines and supplements

I share this as it worked for me. I am not a doctor - only researched on the web to help me stop as I had tried to stop before. Had found on web where they inject people with B1(Thiamine) to stop cravings - figured taking it in pill form up to 500 mg would not cause any problems. Milk thistle and liverite help regenerate any damage done to liver, I do these as I am worried that I might have damaged liver(No evidence whatsoever any damage has occured, just want to cover all my bases) Also helps that I am pissed at myself that I got to the point that I actually had to worry about withdrawal symptoms, thank god that after four years of daily drinking that withdraw was by most standards very mild. I do believe the thiamine(B1) did help alot, as the few times I tried to quite before the cravings caused me to drink. Maybe this time I was just more determined, maybe it was the regime including supplements to get a good night's sleep, I believe it was combination of all of the above.

Hope this helps someone. If any others have had success trying this type of regimine, please share on this thread. I will also answer any question any might have as there is alot of missing info. Also please excuse any spelling mistakes

The Jay Walker

CASEINPOINT

welcome to the boards.

Congrats on the 3 weeks, man I remember how hard those first few weeks, months were.

I was lucky enough to go through my withdrawl in a detox center,

But when I got out I still seemed to need to be drinking something constantly, so I drank a lot of gatorade, it seemed to help,

are you going to A.A.?

as for myself, I found I needed to do more than just stop drinking, in A.A. I have found out why I drank to begin with and dealt with a lot of issues I had, for me drinking was just a symptom of deeper problems.

Hope all goes well for you.

CASEINPOINT

Not a member of AA, probably would never go. Since you are still having cravings, have you tried B1(Thiamin). I have learned that alcohol starves the brain of thiamin by blocking its absorbtion into the brain. Studies have shown this is what causes alot of the brain damage problems in alcoholics. I don't want to come here saying, here's the miracle to get sober - vitamin's - but alot of the research makes sense. Try getting onto a regimine of mutivitamin's(make sure it includes B6 and B12) including at least 100mg a day of B1, see if it helps, as stated, I have no cravings to date, only time will tell. When I get time I will include some web address's that show this reseach.

CASEINPOINT

I provide the following study as one of many examples of the relationship between Thiamin and alcohol consumption. As alcohol blocks the the absobtion of thiamin the following occur. Do any of the symptoms sound familar?? Obviously at 300+ mg of thiamin I was taking far exceeds daily allowance, but then again maybe was need to adjust for loss. Am down to 3mg per day in multi vitamin. For more info just go to any search engine and punch in THIAMIN +ALCOHOL

Requirements

The RECOMMENDED DIETARY ALLOWANCE (RDA) for thiamin for men is 1.5 mg and for non-pregnant women 1.1 mg, and based upon an allowance of 0.5 mg per 1,000 calories consumed daily. The requirement increases with pregnancy and lactation. Because of the prevalence of alcoholism in the United States, thiamin deficiency is not uncommon. Symptoms of moderate deficiency include FATIGUE, apathy, nausea, irritability, depression, slowed wound healing, loss of appetite, indigestion and constipation. Moderate deficiency symptoms can be caused by crash dieting, alcohol abuse or liver disease. People relying on highly processed foods are at risk, for example, elderly people; low-income persons; teenagers relying on sweets, soft drinks and low nutrient foods; and pregnant women. Consuming large amounts of sugar as found in sweets and soft drinks increases the need for thiamin. Also at risk are patients on kidney dialysis or who are sustained for long periods by intravenous nutrients.

Factors That Increase Thiamin Requirements

o Alcohol. Thiamin assimilation is blocked by alcohol consumption. Alcohol use also injures the small intestine and reduces its ability to absorb thiamin. Alcohol decreases thiamin conversion to thiamin pyrophosphate and depletes tissues of this coenzyme.

The Jay Walker

Verry interesting

I havnt craved alcohol in many years but I do still crave sweets, I think I'll try that thiamin, vitamins are allways good,
thanks for the tip

Jon

Hi case,

Welcome to the forums. It is true that most addicts and alcoholics suffer from severe vitamin defecencies. Also true that supplements can help with cravings.

But...

What you are really talking about here is the detox process, or physical sobriety. Just about every study ever done confirms that there are underlying issues regarding our drinking habits. And, if you subscribe to the belief that alcoholism is a disease, as stated by the AMA, then vitamins can do little for long-term sobriety.

But we need to define "sobriety" in recovery terms. Sobriety is much more than just not drinking. It is a change in behaviors and beliefs so that one may lead a productive, happy life without alcohol.

While a majority of problem drinkers "just stop", without the use of outside help, research says that their behaviors may remain 'alcoholic" without a change in attitudes and beliefs. The most common course for that is 12-step fellowships because they are free and readily available, and have a built-in support system. 12-step is not the only way to attain sobriety. Other courses include counseling, church, support groups, etc.

The fact is that physical sobriety through abstinence and detox, with or without vitamins, is has to come first. But it isn't over after we "stop." In fact, the recovery has just begun...

CASEINPOINT

Thanks for your reponse. You have a great site!!. Your point is valid, I may be an stray case. I have very happy home life, good job, great wife and kids, love God etc. With this in mind I went to the web to try and figure out why I couldn't stop drinking. My mind was in the right spot, but something else seemed to be going on. Why was I craving alcohol?? Was alcohol depriving my body of something that caused it to crave more alcohol. My logic was that since the Thiamin deficency symptoms where the same as those when I had cravings, maybe I could solve the craving by substituting the thaimin and other vitamin's and supplement's for the alcohol, as they have done in many studies with success. Well, after trying to stop a number of times, using the thaimin regimine worked for me. As you are probably too well aware every individual is different - let's have all the knowledge we can get on our side.(Thus the need for sites such as this, and why I am posting) There is no doubt that once you get sober you need to solve the problems in life that cause you to hide behind the buzz alcohol provides.

hcolleen

Glad to hear that some are educating themselves to nutrional supplements. I am quite dismayed in reading articles and books that so little emphasis is put on the nutrional aspect of alcoholism. First and foremost alcoholism is a PHYSICAL disease. The byproduct of the disease are the resulting behaviors. An excellent book to read is "Seven weeks to sobriety"...you will never look at alcoholism in the same way agan. I would encourage everyone to read it...you will surely be enlightened..guarenteed!!!

Ninerfan

Thanks for the info Case....but the disease of alcoholism is a little more complicated than what you describe. I don't doubt your sincerity, you have found a way that is working for you. And vitamin therapy is good for all of us, alcoholic or not.

Case, I don't know if you're an alcoholic or just a very heavy drinker but for your sake I hope it is the latter. Heavy drinkers aren't necessarily alcoholic, in which case you can stop and perhaps continue drinking at a later date. Alcoholics can NEVER safely drink.

The truth is that if you are an alcoholic you eventually will drink again unless you get down to the causes and conditions that make you abuse alcohol. How do I know this? Because I haven't seen one alcoholic yet stay sober for a significant period of time without working on changing his or her attitudes and circumstances.

We are all different and I'm not going to try to lump us all into the same category but there are some common threads that run throughout alcoholics. We are selfish, self centered and destructive people. We destroy our lives, health, families, and friends if we drink long enough. Some alcoholics don't do as much damage as others because of who they are and because they stopped earlier. The fact that we continue to drink alcoholically after repeated bad experiences is proof of our insanity regarding liquor.

I want to thank you Case for posting and please keep posting. I take your point about vitamins relieving the cravings and hope it helps others. Tell us how your doing good or bad.

N

Fishman35

Let me start by saying congrats on the three weeks. Yes, the physiological aspects of this disease are important. Vitamins and excersise, and nutrition are very important indeed. Alcohol does absolutely terrible things to our bodies. But there is so much more to being "sober" than just getting through the physical affects of alcohol abuse. I went through treatment three times before I understood the total effects of this disease. You see, I am a very proactive, left brained person. Being an engineer, I believed that if I just found out what alcohol does to the body and how to relieve the withdrawls, that I would be fine. My second trip through treatment, I went to the head councilor and demanded that she give me the scientific data on alcohol and the human body. She told me "fine. I will show you all of the studies and conclusions ever done on alcohol and alcoholism, but it won't keep you sober." She did just that. And, in the end, she was right. I left the center and was drinking 5 months later. They call that a 'dry drunk". (No alcohol is being consumed, but the problem is not solved). In the program of AA, this experience of finding out the "how and why" is called analysis, paralysis. There is a deeper issue going on that makes us alcoholics. All addiction: gambling, chocolate, internet, sex, drugs, alcohol, etc.., are attempts at escapism because we cannot face the hard reality of our current situation, or life as a whole, and we try to medicate ourselves with something that makes us feel, or we think will make us feel, better. The problem with being alcoholic is that we have a physical allergy to alcohol, and we will pound ourselves with it until it kills us. No one likes to admit that they different because they cannot drink successfully. The point is that we cannot. I can tell you everything you ever wanted to know about why we crave it, what happens to the brain when alcohol enters it, and what causes Post Accute Withdrawl Syndrome. But in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't mean squat. You cannot fix insane thinking with insane thinking. Intelligence does not dictate behavior. Some of the greatest minds in history have been inside alcoholic people. I hope you find true sobriety, and address the issue that gets all of us to the point of jumping off. This much is true of any alcoholic. If you do not address the problem inside, the drink will always be with you. Good luck and God speed.

Peter

Hi Caseinpoint.

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your input.I am sure a lot of us will find it very useful.

HOWEVER.

What you recommended would not keep me sober because my disease affects me more than just PHYSICALLY.

I have a mental obsession with alcohol and a spiritual defeciency that affects my perceptions of myself and the way I view the world.

My NEED and my DESIRE to drink alcohol far surpassed any PHYSICAL craving I had.

I abused alcohol for twenty years in an attempt to "change" the way I felt about myself.

Serious emotional issues like shame,anger,fear and low self esteem are not issues that can be treated with just vitamins and exercise.Although their value cannot be denied,my emotional problems could only be addressed by therapy and deep spiritual exploration.

It was only after dealing with my disease on this level that the need for alcohol left me.

AA has been helping millions of alcoholics to stay sober because of the unique spiritual approach it takes to recovery and has been known to succeed where medicine has failed.

New information about alcoholism and recovery seem to surface every day and I personally embrace any idea that is helping people to stay sober.

If taking Thiamin is helping you to stay off the booze,my hat is off to you.I only know that vitamins alone will not work for this alcoholic.

Please stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

Peter

CASEINPOINT

WOW! Thanks for the replies. I have to admit I had a couple of glasses of beer last night, I'm stuck here in the Dallas airport and a couple of guys(also stuck) and I sat in the bar a had a pitcher. Happy to report to no desire beyond the couple of beer's, especially since there is nothing better to do when you are stuck at an airport.(Nothing worse than being frozen in at an airport!)

Fortunately found a computer with internet access, so was able to read replies and study my situation a bit more. I believe ninerfan is right, I am probably just a heavy drinker and not an alcoholic. I was drinking about 1/2 a fifth of vodka a night, this turns out to be less than a pint. From reading about alcoholic's from Eddie Van Halen to Nick Nolte, a pint or more is what they drink just to get their day started! So I guess my experience is not typical for a true alcoholic who is spending a life hiding behind alcohol. Fortunately from the replies AA seems to be a great place to get help.

I guess from the replies what should be taken away from my post is be aware of what alcohol is depriving your body of. (Perhaps the book hcolleen recommended??) If you are going to drink, make sure you are doing your best to offset the damage done to your body by addressing what other craving's your body is developing due the alcohol use. This can be as simple as taking the right vitamin's. If you are not doing this then you body, per the studies, ends up craving more than alcohol, ie the thiamin.(And obviously this just makes the cravings and other problems when trying to guit that much worse) Also addressing these deficiencies may help to limit damage done to the body by alcohol in the long run. ie milk thistle may help save the liver from cirrosis and heptitus. I believe that if you address the damage alcohol is doing to your body by depriving it of vitamin's and nutrients, it will be easier to break the habit once the time comes, and you will feel so much better it will be easier to stay off in the long run.

The Jay Walker

CASEINPOINT

Good luck to you. hope to see you around here again.

Jon

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