debsjsu

Carol suggested that I start a new thread with this topic... I was shocked when I saw a post by another person that stated that the largest number of people who get sober do it without any program at all... This was mind blowing to me.... I am only going to ask a couple of things from you please... This thread is NOT program specific... Yes I do belong to a specific program dosnt matter.. The poster didn't specify a specific program. He said "any program at all" So please lets be kind.. everyone is entitled to their OWN opinion... I DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO TELL THEM THEY ARE WRONG!!! any way What do you think? Did you get sober without a program? Have you ever heard this? I had not ... I do not think I could have and if I had I would have still been a miserable person I would just have been able to remember it better. I don't doubt the truth in the statement that the poster made, so please don't misunderstand this thread. I am not saying that what he said wasn't valid Im sure he knows what he is talking about. I just wondered what you guys thought about it. If you had the same questions that I had... Love to all Debs

2dayzmuse

Yes, I have heard this. I find it hard to believe. I think there are many variables to be considered in a statement such as no program at all. I was a hard core real alcoholic who drank large amounts of alcohol every day and every night. I think the amount drank and how often you drink is an important factor to consider. I think being physically addicted plays a huge part on whether you can get sober without a program.

I have tried to get sober on my own many times. I failed miserably each time. My attempts at sobriety were short lived usually lasting a few days if not a only a few hours.

When I became totally helpless and hopeless I started a program, but failed because I put no effort into the program and didn't work it as it was intended to be worked.

When I finally got serious about sobriety and wanted sobriety more then anything else is when it finally happened.

Anna

Yes, I did get sober without a program.

It is 5 yrs, 9 1/2 months!

I have no idea why people find it so hard to believe.

Malcolm

I do believe that more people quit on their own than not. Part of the reason is the (seeming) stigma attached to admitting that you have a problem. I know very few people who will freely admit to being in AA or any other recovery program - most people would prefer to deal with it themselves. They, and I, feel it's something they can control and refuse to seek or accept help until there is no choice. i think about alcoholics in my family, not a single one could admit the problem no matter how apparent. Attempts to curtail it failed, so they thankfully sought help; but, I think a larger majority of people are successful in cutting back or quitting after a few tries.

degadar

I'm three years and a few days - and the only program I used was the one I made up for myself. I think quitting is such a personal thing.

D.

miss communicat

Yes, its possible. I was sober without a program for 13 years. Of course, the argument can (and probably will) be launched that it failed, since I relapsed for 3 years, but my message is actually this:

for me, sobriety is possible without a prorgam, but it is much more high quality WITH one.

debsjsu

Wow this is so very interesting to me.. I must have had my head in the sand all these years.... just goes to show me I always have more to learn... Thanks for posting guys and keeping it kind... Im interested in hearing more. I am afraid that I must be cut from a different cloth, or I must just not be as strong as some of you, I just dont think I would have ever been successful without help.... I also don't think my life would have ever been as peaceful and serean as it is today without the help of my recovery program. I commend the people who have been able to do this on their own. I just wasnt that smart.... Love to all Debs

2dayzmuse

Anna, I only have my experience to relate to. I was so deep in the clutches of alcoholism, there was no way to drag myself out on my own.

We are all different and were at different stages of alcoholism I guess. My hat goes off to those who managed on there own. I couldn't do it and still can't relate to how one manages.

Like I mentioned before, the physical addiction played a big part of why I couldn't stop. I tried to out run the withdrawals, but that can only be done for so long before it catches up with you.

The other thing that makes it so difficult for me to understand is, I tried many, many times to quit. I really tried, or so I thought. I told myself every morning when I awoke feeling like crap that I wouldn't drink today. Today would be different. In a blink of an eye, that would change and I would be drinking again. It was insane and out of control.

How one stop's on their own mystifies me because I couldn't do it. I wonder what it was that I was lacking in? I don't know? Maybe the desire wasn't quite there yet. It is hard to say at this point. Very interesting topic.

BigSis

Good topic, Deb... thank you!

I come from "bluebloods"... as far as I can determine, 100% of the folks in my family of origin do not drink like normies. My maternal grandfather was a 38 year AA member when he died... and the only one in the family to use that program successfully.

My mom quit after about 15 years of hard-assed drinking - she was drinking a quart a day for years, and toward the end was buying them by the 1/2 gallon.

My sis quit pot, alcohol and meth after 30 years of progressively more severe use and drinking (she was a daily drinker for about 15 years before she quit).

My dad was "only" a beer drinker - about 24 a day. He quit a year after mom did when she set a boundary of no booze in the house.

My kids are both addicts...one worked a program for about a year, though he hasn't lately. The other is married to an addict - they have about a year clean.

For me, it was just luck and timing... I got sober because my husband and I wanted kids, and "good parents" don't drink. ... sounds simple, eh?

Lately, I've looked back on that time and noted a few things.

I was at the edge of ramping up from a binge drinker to a daily drinker... my "weekends" had grown from 2 days to 4 days.
My drinking had already become 'unpredictable' and I had always been a blackout drinker.
I had been trying (and failing) at "controlled drinking" for some time.
But I still think I was at a place in the progression of my drinking that just the right combination of elements could come together at the right time to make quitting out of desire "work" for me.

We cut off ALL contact with drinking places and faces... entirely
We had no booze in the house.
We got pregnant within a few months... more reason than ever to stay sober.
We did some of the things treatment centers tell clients to do... get rid of the stuff, stay away from the crowds, focus on living.

Our lives were.... rough, and our relationship has been very difficult.

It was only when I got into Alanon because of my kids that I learned what the 12 steps could do for me.... teach me HOW to live a good and happy life. That has been a trip.... and I've turned into a real 12-step cheerleader.

I know that in my famiy, "white knuckle" recovery has been what has been modeled for us. I also see the downfall of that "way". And I can see where many of the benefits of 12-step are all over the place - if we look for them.

I learned in management classes about synergy - the power of the group being more than the power of the individual.

I learned in kindergarten to be kind to my neighbor.

I learned in church to do good works without seeking fame.

I learned in counseling the benefits of confession and letting go of secrets.

I learned in from my pets how to love unconditionally.

And each of these concepts has been brought together and reinforced in an efficient and effective way in 12-step. I very much admire the program.

Good topic, Deb.

Shakur

Very interesting thread. I've thought about this at length. I believe that, as there are only 5 million members, officially, worldwide, in AA, and an even smaller number in NA, that there have to be a substantial number of people who do manage to quit without the aid of a 12 Step Program. Yet this beggars the question, why is this approach so under-reported (as one person on this thread says, no one seems to believe its possible). I am an active member of AA who tried to get clean and sober in every possible way.

I love AA, but it is clearly not for everyone. Yet even people who only utilize SR Forums in an effort to cease drinking/using are really not quitting "on their own". No one does anything "on their own", as no one exists in a complete vacuum. We live in an existential net, and independence and dependence are relative values, not existing absolutely.

In the words of rapper and active rock cocaine enthusiast DMX: DO YOU!

Anna

You know I have never for a moment thought I was smarter or better or stronger than anyone else who got sober, no matter how they did it. We are not all the same and I can't imagine why we would all find the exact same path to follow. I can accept anyone's method of getting sober as long as it works for them. In my belief, any way that works is great.

I did do it on my own and I do have a peaceful and joyous life. I am thrilled to be where I am in my life.

brigid

I did it without a program too. I do think that sharing with people about problems and talking things through is the major thing that helps work out the issues. AND I definitely know that I am every bit an alcoholic, seriously. I had prayed for a long time to quit drinking, then one episode and the circumstances in my life were there to help me through, and I talked about it a lot.

love Brigid

2dayzmuse

I never thought for a moment that my post was implying that I thought you were. I apologize if that is the way it came across. I also am not implying that stopping on your own means that your life is not fulfilling or with out peace. I don't understand where you got that from. That is not the point I am trying to convey.

I also am not saying my way is better then anyone else's. I agree with whatever works, works. I was just trying to relate to stopping on one's own. I can't. I can't relate because I was not successful in doing so. That doesn't imply that anyone one is right or wrong, better, stronger, smarter. I posted from a honest, sincere point of view. I was not trying to be judgemental or chastising. I wanted an open honest discussion, but some how things ended up skewed. I personally don't care how one quits. Just quit. That is all that matters to me.

Anna

Whoa, Muse, I most definitely didn't mean to come across the way you thought I did. I have said very little on this board about how I got sober and I guess I got carried away tonight. I really am sorry if I came across badly.

2dayzmuse

Maybe it's me Anna. Maybe I read more into then what was intended. Continue to share and don't stop because of anything I said. All things and ways are important in sobriety. Don't let me interfere with that. I'm just having a bad day and not thinking clearly.

Anna

Muse,

2dayzmuse

That battle is just as tough no matter which form we choose to get sober. I admire anyone for taking on the challenge and winning. To those who are still struggling, never give up! There is hope, a solution and happiness ahead! Kudos to all who keep trying!

Kellye C

I can relate to Muze. Because I was physically addicted to it and was a daily drinker I could not stop on my own. As Muze said, daily I resolved that I wasn't going to drink that day when I would wake up either still drunk or so hungover I wanted to die. In a few hours I would be shaking so bad and so sick that I would tell myself instead that I would just have a little and try to "taper off". Next thing you know it's evening and I would think, well, I've already drank today so tomorrow I'll do it right. Then I would drink til passing out that night KNOWING that tomorrow would be better and it never was. I did this for a year because I did NOT want to admit that it controlled me, not the other way around. I was deeply ashamed of that fact and tried my best to hide it. I resisted AA because I didn't want to be seen as weak minded and weak willed (that was what I thought then - NOT what I think today). At the end, my kidneys were shutting down and my liver hurt constantly and I was "maintenance drinking" throughout the day to stop the withdrawals. A one person intervention in the form of my mom almost 2 years ago (in 5 days) got me through the doors of AA. There I found the courage and support to suffer through the full withdrawals (the very idea of them scared the wits out of me so that was another thing that kept me drinking). In addition to the program and the steps a big part of it for me is the fellowship and the friendships I've made.

AA is certainly not the only way as many, many can attest to but it was the way for me and I'm thankful for its existence.

As has been stated, no matter what method is used to stop drinking, the end result is what is most important. The end result is not drinking today.

Hugs to all,
Kellye

2dayzmuse

Another fine example of finding the solution that worked for you.

CarolD

Here is the survey that has been posted by Don S


"In 1992, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism conducted one of the largest surveys of substance use ever, sending Census Bureau workers to interview more than 42,000 Americans about their lifetime drug and alcohol use. Of the 4,500-plus respondents who had ever been dependent on alcohol, only 27 percent had gone to treatment of any kind, including Alcoholics Anonymous. In this group, one-third were still abusing alcohol.

Of those who never had any treatment, only about one-quarter were currently diagnosable as alcohol abusers. This study, known as the National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Survey, indicates first that treatment is not a cure-all, and second that it is not necessary. The vast majority of Americans who were alcohol dependent, about three-quarters, never underwent treatment. And fewer of them were abusing alcohol than were those who were treated."
....from the article cited above.
That is analysis of actual data. Other studies have shown 'natural remission' rates of 25 - 30%+. Even the study by Vaillant, a 12-step proponent, found that the rate of sobriety of those treated with 12-step programs (not AA specifically, it should be noted) was no higher than those who were untreated.

I find it much more interesting to read our personal
experiences....