What Do YOU think???
..It took me 4 years with a program!
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
Muse.....
I'm sorry you had a bad day. I hope things are working out for you with that nuisance of a co-worker. She sounds like quite a number. I saw your thread in the cafe. It was a long post, but interesting. I didn't respond, 'cause well, I can't respond to all the posts I'd like.
I was like you. I woke up daily and told myself I would never drink again. Over and over, ad infinitum. I was pouring about an 18 pack a day into a medium-boned, 125 lb frame. Donald swears I would drink up to a case or more on occasion. Every day (or almost every day), I told myself I wouldn't do it again, I felt like I would just curl up and die - I'm still astounded sometimes at what our bodies will tolerate. Then one day, I just did it. Every time I drank I was getting worse and worse, driving smashed, wanting to fight, held a loaded gun to my head, waking up covered in bruises I can't explain..... I remember last summer actually falling out of the driver's seat of my SUV onto the driveway, and somehow my foot got stuck inside while the rest of me hit the pavement. I really could exceed the character limit of a single post rambling about all the things I did, like waking up in jail covered in blood. But you know, "real" alcoholics don't endure all this kind of suffering before they decide to surrender. They have to live in cardboard boxes and drink a gallon of 5 O'Clock Vodka a day (cheap nasty sh!t). Gimme a break. If I hadn't quit I'd have soon been dead or in prison.
Yes, I quit on my own..... before SR or before I knew about anything besides AA. I don't have any particular program. I have been hanging around here with you AAers and Smarties and Christians and Atheists and everyone in between, learning a little bit here and there, and it seems to be enough follow-up program for me. Collective knowledge..... how can you beat it, really? If I had chosen any one particular program for quitting, it would have been individual therapy.
You know, AA says that we are not unique Muse, but we are. We're all different. Our brain and body chemistries are different, our tolerance for emotional/physical pain is different, our indivdual psychologies are different.
There are things you say you don't understand or can't relate to..... I can't understand how you say you couldn't have quit on your own. Who did it for you?
I was like you. I woke up daily and told myself I would never drink again. Over and over, ad infinitum. I was pouring about an 18 pack a day into a medium-boned, 125 lb frame. Donald swears I would drink up to a case or more on occasion. Every day (or almost every day), I told myself I wouldn't do it again, I felt like I would just curl up and die - I'm still astounded sometimes at what our bodies will tolerate. Then one day, I just did it. Every time I drank I was getting worse and worse, driving smashed, wanting to fight, held a loaded gun to my head, waking up covered in bruises I can't explain..... I remember last summer actually falling out of the driver's seat of my SUV onto the driveway, and somehow my foot got stuck inside while the rest of me hit the pavement. I really could exceed the character limit of a single post rambling about all the things I did, like waking up in jail covered in blood. But you know, "real" alcoholics don't endure all this kind of suffering before they decide to surrender. They have to live in cardboard boxes and drink a gallon of 5 O'Clock Vodka a day (cheap nasty sh!t). Gimme a break. If I hadn't quit I'd have soon been dead or in prison.
Yes, I quit on my own..... before SR or before I knew about anything besides AA. I don't have any particular program. I have been hanging around here with you AAers and Smarties and Christians and Atheists and everyone in between, learning a little bit here and there, and it seems to be enough follow-up program for me. Collective knowledge..... how can you beat it, really? If I had chosen any one particular program for quitting, it would have been individual therapy.
You know, AA says that we are not unique Muse, but we are. We're all different. Our brain and body chemistries are different, our tolerance for emotional/physical pain is different, our indivdual psychologies are different.
There are things you say you don't understand or can't relate to..... I can't understand how you say you couldn't have quit on your own. Who did it for you?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 375
There is a serious and interesting point raised here regarding recovery programmes. Someone pointed out, and rightly so, that success goes to those who keep trying.
The important thing to remember is that it's vital not to keep failing and falling at the same hurdle over and over again.
They say practice makes perfect - and that's not actually true. Practice makes habit, and if you fail at the same point every time, all you're doing is making that failure a habit - and we know how hard habits are to break!
Deg.
The important thing to remember is that it's vital not to keep failing and falling at the same hurdle over and over again.
They say practice makes perfect - and that's not actually true. Practice makes habit, and if you fail at the same point every time, all you're doing is making that failure a habit - and we know how hard habits are to break!
Deg.
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fight ... WIN!!
Posts: 118
I'm 55 days sober, so hardly a longtimer but not quite a newbie, but I've never attended any program. I tried to quit on my own and failed many many times, then realized that the one component I was missing was support! I found SR and here I am! You folks are my "program" and so far it's working pretty darn well! 
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somwhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,175
When I was 23 I got sober for the first time and that sobriety lasted for over ten years. I did it without a program. I did it on my own. How? Massive amounts of exercise, developing spiritually, forming a long term relationship, and becoming preoccupied b/c I entered university about a year later and spent 7.5 yrs in uni fully challenged, enraptured and captivated.
I lost my sobriety as a result of anger that developed in law school when I was finally presented with how the "other half" really did live. I was on my own at 14. I struggled to survive. I had one pair of jeans, a few t-shirts and some socks and a make do winter coat (leather outer shell with a lumber jack shirt inside... it was all I could afford) for most of my teen years. I made it through my teens and started on the path of life by working hard. Nothing was given to me.
I struggled through university (undergrad) by working full time and going to school full time. Despite this I maintained a 3.8 gpa. When I got to law school I was presented with "kids" that had grown up with everything. They arrived in mercedes, beamers, hummers, you name it. Mom and dad bought them houses,condos, etc. to live in while in law school. At xmas they had corporate jets pick them up to go skiing, summer same deal but for travel to Europe, etc. I had to compete with these "kids" for a spot in the co-op program, for jobs, etc.
I became quite angry b/c I finally realized how little I really had started out in life with. I then decided f#$% them, I am going to get it all. I pursued materialism with a vengeance and lost my way. My spiritual side was devastated and I became vulnerable to drink. I soon relapsed.
I am now sober again, and I am doing it on my own again. I did attend AA for a brief period (about six months) but it was not for me. I have learned and benefited from that time, but it is not for me. I am becoming more spiritual again, working out, finding interesting hobbies and reconnecting with family and friends. This site is the closest thing to a program I can say I have and it is more just sharing with others.
In terms of that stat re majority quit without a program, it is actually true that a huge percentage of people who quit do so on their own. They may not, however, have reached the depths that many who really struggle for sobriety have. Or, they are like me and find that accepting their own personal responsibilty and roles in the addiction is what leads them to sobriety.
Regardless of how you find sobriety, just be glad you do find sobriety.
Peace, Levi
I lost my sobriety as a result of anger that developed in law school when I was finally presented with how the "other half" really did live. I was on my own at 14. I struggled to survive. I had one pair of jeans, a few t-shirts and some socks and a make do winter coat (leather outer shell with a lumber jack shirt inside... it was all I could afford) for most of my teen years. I made it through my teens and started on the path of life by working hard. Nothing was given to me.
I struggled through university (undergrad) by working full time and going to school full time. Despite this I maintained a 3.8 gpa. When I got to law school I was presented with "kids" that had grown up with everything. They arrived in mercedes, beamers, hummers, you name it. Mom and dad bought them houses,condos, etc. to live in while in law school. At xmas they had corporate jets pick them up to go skiing, summer same deal but for travel to Europe, etc. I had to compete with these "kids" for a spot in the co-op program, for jobs, etc.
I became quite angry b/c I finally realized how little I really had started out in life with. I then decided f#$% them, I am going to get it all. I pursued materialism with a vengeance and lost my way. My spiritual side was devastated and I became vulnerable to drink. I soon relapsed.
I am now sober again, and I am doing it on my own again. I did attend AA for a brief period (about six months) but it was not for me. I have learned and benefited from that time, but it is not for me. I am becoming more spiritual again, working out, finding interesting hobbies and reconnecting with family and friends. This site is the closest thing to a program I can say I have and it is more just sharing with others.
In terms of that stat re majority quit without a program, it is actually true that a huge percentage of people who quit do so on their own. They may not, however, have reached the depths that many who really struggle for sobriety have. Or, they are like me and find that accepting their own personal responsibilty and roles in the addiction is what leads them to sobriety.
Regardless of how you find sobriety, just be glad you do find sobriety.
Peace, Levi
Paused
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 5,093
Hi Autumn, it's good to hear from you. About the co-worker, not so good, job not so good. I'll have to update about that later.
When AA says we are not unique, I take it as this: We are not unique in our alcoholic ways and alcoholic thinking and alcoholic drinking. In that aspect we are the same. Sure if you break it down we have different personalities and such. But as far as our actions and reactions to booze, we are not unique.
Two years ago when I was coming off of a long binge I was literally babysat for days. I was watched for alcohol poisoning and watched to make sure I didn't drink any more. If it wasn't for AA, my friends and family I would probably be dead or still drinking today.
At that point in my life I was so mentally, physically and emotionally addicted to alcohol I couldn't stop. Even though I hated what I was doing and wanted to quit, I couldn't. If it were up to me, when the anxiety hit and my alcoholic mind told me I needed more I would have given in and gotten more booze and drank it. I was insane from booze and insane without it. The cycle would have continued if I had anything to do with it. Would there have been a point where I would have quit on my own? I don't know. I can't answer that. I would have to say no because I could never stop in the past Experience tells me this is true.
I've told this story before, I called my best friend and begged her to bring me some booze. This was in front of an AA member sitting on my couch. I didn't care what the AA member thought, I didn't care what my friend thought. The only thing I cared about was getting more booze. It was very pathetic, but it shows me how powerful and helpless I am against the disease once I pick up that first drink. There is no doubt in my mind that if I had been alone and it were up to me, I would have gotten more booze and drank it. Of course my friend told me no and the AA member would have intervened and no booze would have exchanged hands, but I was willing to give it a try.
So with that, I can not say I did it on my own. I did it with the help of others who gave there time and effort to help me get sober. From the point of becoming cognizant again, I stepped in and was able to contribute to my sobriety. Before, I was not mentally, emotionally or physically strong enough to do so.
I must give credit where credit is due. I did not get sober on my own. I had help. I can not relate to just putting down the bottle and stopping. I drank the bottle and if left to my own accord, would have gotten more and drank it. I hear what you are saying and understand, but my experience has been different.
When AA says we are not unique, I take it as this: We are not unique in our alcoholic ways and alcoholic thinking and alcoholic drinking. In that aspect we are the same. Sure if you break it down we have different personalities and such. But as far as our actions and reactions to booze, we are not unique.
Two years ago when I was coming off of a long binge I was literally babysat for days. I was watched for alcohol poisoning and watched to make sure I didn't drink any more. If it wasn't for AA, my friends and family I would probably be dead or still drinking today.
At that point in my life I was so mentally, physically and emotionally addicted to alcohol I couldn't stop. Even though I hated what I was doing and wanted to quit, I couldn't. If it were up to me, when the anxiety hit and my alcoholic mind told me I needed more I would have given in and gotten more booze and drank it. I was insane from booze and insane without it. The cycle would have continued if I had anything to do with it. Would there have been a point where I would have quit on my own? I don't know. I can't answer that. I would have to say no because I could never stop in the past Experience tells me this is true.
I've told this story before, I called my best friend and begged her to bring me some booze. This was in front of an AA member sitting on my couch. I didn't care what the AA member thought, I didn't care what my friend thought. The only thing I cared about was getting more booze. It was very pathetic, but it shows me how powerful and helpless I am against the disease once I pick up that first drink. There is no doubt in my mind that if I had been alone and it were up to me, I would have gotten more booze and drank it. Of course my friend told me no and the AA member would have intervened and no booze would have exchanged hands, but I was willing to give it a try.
So with that, I can not say I did it on my own. I did it with the help of others who gave there time and effort to help me get sober. From the point of becoming cognizant again, I stepped in and was able to contribute to my sobriety. Before, I was not mentally, emotionally or physically strong enough to do so.
I must give credit where credit is due. I did not get sober on my own. I had help. I can not relate to just putting down the bottle and stopping. I drank the bottle and if left to my own accord, would have gotten more and drank it. I hear what you are saying and understand, but my experience has been different.
Michael
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London England
Posts: 291
I am sober almost 18 months and I don't use any programme. I started with AA but could not reconcile my views with those of the organisation so I left and became self-supporting. I use this site and others to cherry pick techniques and ideas to maintain my commitment. It works for me and clearly similar approaches work for a number of others too.
I am unsurprised about the wide range of pathways to sobriety. I suppose there are as many pathways as there are alcoholics prepared to walk to freedom.
Michael
I am unsurprised about the wide range of pathways to sobriety. I suppose there are as many pathways as there are alcoholics prepared to walk to freedom.
Michael
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 375
Originally Posted by michaelj
I am sober almost 18 months and I don't use any programme. I started with AA but could not reconcile my views with those of the organisation so I left and became self-supporting. I use this site and others to cherry pick techniques and ideas to maintain my commitment. It works for me and clearly similar approaches work for a number of others too.
I am unsurprised about the wide range of pathways to sobriety. I suppose there are as many pathways as there are alcoholics prepared to walk to freedom.
Michael
I am unsurprised about the wide range of pathways to sobriety. I suppose there are as many pathways as there are alcoholics prepared to walk to freedom.
Michael
Deg.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by leviathon
When I was 23 I got sober for the first time and that sobriety lasted for over ten years. I did it without a program. I did it on my own. How? Massive amounts of exercise, developing spiritually, forming a long term relationship, and becoming preoccupied b/c I entered university about a year later and spent 7.5 yrs in uni fully challenged, enraptured and captivated.
I KNOW I AM A NEWBIE, but so far, I have been staying sober through my own support system...my family, friends, a wonderful, wise woman who is a regular at AA meetings, and SR. I agree with Shakur that we are not "quitting on our own," since "no one exists in a complete vacuum." My "program" consists of these people, and I know that I would not be able to do it without them. Like Levi, I have found exercise, a good diet, new hobbies, and was accepted to grad school. I have much more to be interested in now, and there are actuall tangible reasons for me to NOT drink. Again, I KNOW I'm a newbie, but I had to give my two cents.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rainsville, Alabama
Posts: 189
Hey guys .. Thank you so very much for posting here and edcuating this old lady alcoholic.... I am a member of a recovery program and I have my own "story" which is much like some I have read here... The one thing that has amazed me when reading these post is that even though I am a member of a recovery program, I chose to have an open mind while reading here and really think about what I was reading... This is what I came up with.... anna I can see where you can have sobriety and a completely peaceful life with serenity, and when I imply that My program gives that to me it may sound as if I am implying that you don't have that... I didn't realize that until I read my post and others and then your post... Im so sorry I said that the way I did. I did not realize how that must have sounded.... Also Levi I really liked what you had to say about changing the inner views you had... Spirituality, and how you looked at the world around you. I know I am missing some of the really valid points you made, but what you said made a lot of sence to me.. There were many people who had awesome things I needed to hear.. The neatest thing for me was to realize that I could identify with what everyone said IF I HAD AN OPEN MIND. My personal experience may have been different but I could see and understand where they were comming from, if I was just willing to "hear" them... Just my opinion Love to all Debs
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anywhere,USA
Posts: 511
After 25 years of active addiction...personally I needed a program and treatment to help me break the cycle. I don't believe that I could have done it on my own. My "best thinking" would have let me quit my job and continue to get high...
Without the "required" treatment to clear my head...and my thinking I would have continued to pursue my drug to the destruction of everything in my life.
I needed clean & sober people to give me hope and show me how to live life on life's terms.
I'm grateful to the program of NA & AA...it's given me a new life.
Without the "required" treatment to clear my head...and my thinking I would have continued to pursue my drug to the destruction of everything in my life.
I needed clean & sober people to give me hope and show me how to live life on life's terms.
I'm grateful to the program of NA & AA...it's given me a new life.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,504
Wow, Debs,
I love your post!
We all need each other in some way on this journey, but not always in the same way. I regret Debs that I did sound defensive and that's something I thought about a lot last night. I don't usually feel that way because I feel comfortable with where I am in recovery, but, there is always a lesson to be learned, always!
I love your post!
We all need each other in some way on this journey, but not always in the same way. I regret Debs that I did sound defensive and that's something I thought about a lot last night. I don't usually feel that way because I feel comfortable with where I am in recovery, but, there is always a lesson to be learned, always!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rainsville, Alabama
Posts: 189
I appreciate that anna,, I like some of the others had no other choice but to drink.. I absolutely had no control what so ever over alcohol, it controled me. It took other people, a program of recovery and a Higher Power in my life to help me get sober.. The getting sober wasnt even the hardest part. I hit my hardest bottem sober. There is no reality like hitting reality sober.. When I could "drink" my reality away it didn't seem so bad but having to face it sober seemed more than I could bare...without the help and support of the people in my recovery program, my Higher Power and a lot of prayer Im not sure I would have ever come out of it alive... I was facing 42 felony charges, living in my car (which I thought was normal at the time, I was sick mentally) couldn't go a day without a drink without getting physically sick. I wont go through all the sordid details, but I just think for me I was too far gone to "help myself"...... I needed medical help, I was also "baby sat" and people in my recovery group loved me until I could love myself b/c I was so messed up I didn't know how to function, and I really hated me and who I was.... So yea in the shape I was in it amazes me if anyone can pull out of that and do it "on their own" maybe some can, maybe they have, I don't know. Thats what this is about... Learning as much as I can, having an open mind and listening to others..... Love to all Debs
Paused
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 5,093
Knowing that there is hope for you and I, for anyone who suffers brings me great joy. Alcoholism strips us from so much. The good news is that sobriety is achievable. We did it meaning there is always hope.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,415
I have no doubt that AA is the "last house on the street". All those people who managed to get off the ride before they got that far, hat's off to them, however they did it. For those of us who, by whatever combination of personality, history, circumstance, genetics, psychometry and juju took it to the extremes defined by ourselves, it's an unexpected deliverance from a downward spiral which felt hopeless. Those people who did it their way, good luck to you. But disrespecting the fellowship which some of us love so much, because it gave us hope and so much more when hope was gone and despair was all we had - cut us some slack if we are sometimes zealous. We know that AA can recover anyone who is unfortunate enough to need it. "What then have we gained by our unbelief? We called the chessboard black - we call it white"
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rainsville, Alabama
Posts: 189
I read a story once that said a simple sentance that completly explained it for me, this is it.... "Alcohol gave me wings to fly, and then it took away my sky" so profound to me....... Love to all Debs
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