I've been thinking...
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ft. Collins CO.
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by nocellphone
Yes SPF, I read it. I got it. I appreciated it. I simply disagree with it somewhat.
Wellllll... I'm not sure about the accuracy of the %ages you've put forth, but I certainly agree that there are people who drink who don't have long-term problems with alcohol. I'm still a bit concerned about the short-term effects.
(Since you enjoy my analogies... ) What would you think if the NRA took out an ad that said, "Blankety-blank percent of people survive bullet wounds, so guns aren't really sooooooooooo bad after all!!! Yay, guns!"?
Yes I did! I swear!!! I can quote it back if you'd like... It's up above somewhere. I'm almost sure of it...
By the way, your sarcasm bone seems to be in good working order (I'd put a smiley here, but apparently I'm over the limit).
Nooooooo... Let me see if I can put it in a way that might be more easily understood: I don't believe that the health benefits outweigh the health risks. If a person shows obvious signs of being affected by alcohol (no need to list 'em, we all know what they are), then the alcohol is affecting them. The damage may not be permanent, but it's still damage. If the ingestion of alcohol causes damage even for a minute, should it's use be advocated in such a way?
To be really honest I dont think there is much evidence that 1-2 drinks a day really DOES damage to the body. Even the people who have fatty liver other factors need to be taken in such as OTC pain medication usage....diet...etc. etc.
Thanks! I'm enjoying our interchanges!
All I know is that I'm gonna keep on not drinking, 'cos my opinion is that it is poisonous. A little or a lot, my liver would have to deTOXIFY the alcohol from my system, and that just isn't a nice thing to do to my li'l ol' liver... Poor little guy has enough to do already.
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ft. Collins CO.
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by Little Missy
No scientific data here, but I believe that "normal" people feel the effects of the alcohol quicker then we do. This may be a little off the topic, but when you said "buzz" it made me think.
I know my hubby feels the effects of just 2 drinks. (Light weight, LOL) I'm sure some people feel this with their one glass of wine. Don't you think that with time, they too, would not feel this effect as greatly as when they first started? Won't the body accommadate to what it is taking in?
Just wondering,
Missy
I know my hubby feels the effects of just 2 drinks. (Light weight, LOL) I'm sure some people feel this with their one glass of wine. Don't you think that with time, they too, would not feel this effect as greatly as when they first started? Won't the body accommadate to what it is taking in?
Just wondering,
Missy
This is called tolerance. As alcoholics our bodies have becomed accustomed to steady alcohol intake and as a result it takes much more for us to feel the effects of it...Indeed though I can't speak for everybody..I know for me it got to the point where I always wanted to feel like I did early on in my drinking. Where I would get after 2-3 beers...would now take me maybe 4-5...then 5-6...so my drinking was always increasing. Even though I was only a weekend binger..I was developing mad tolerance.
It is also developing tolerance which is used as one of the diagnosing critieria in the DSM-IV for an addict of any substance.
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Originally Posted by Brookie
Now that you mention it, seems like I've heard the same thing. At the very least, the Concord Gape Association agrees. And if you can't believe the Concord Grape Association, who can you believe?
Seriously though...indeed I actually think that that statement WAS issued by the Concord Grape Association and there has been little scientific studies to really back it. However there also could be something to it...I mean Wine is fermented from grapes...so who knows.
The real thing is if I drink a glass of red wine/grape joice a day...is that really helping my heart more than if I go for a 30-min Jog?
Been there and done.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Coast North America
Posts: 269
Originally Posted by SPF 77
LMAO!!
Seriously though...indeed I actually think that that statement WAS issued by the Concord Grape Association and there has been little scientific studies to really back it. However there also could be something to it...I mean Wine is fermented from grapes...so who knows.
The real thing is if I drink a glass of red wine/grape joice a day...is that really helping my heart more than if I go for a 30-min Jog?
Seriously though...indeed I actually think that that statement WAS issued by the Concord Grape Association and there has been little scientific studies to really back it. However there also could be something to it...I mean Wine is fermented from grapes...so who knows.
The real thing is if I drink a glass of red wine/grape joice a day...is that really helping my heart more than if I go for a 30-min Jog?
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-cgj111604.php
Welch's funded at least one study at UWisconsin, but there have been a bunch of others not funded by the grape growers.
In any event, concord grape juice is even better than red wine in terms of total proanthocyanidins.
There is still no reason to pick up a glass of wine.
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Originally Posted by AndrewBeen
There have been an number of studies over the past two years that have identified the healthful proanthocyanidins found in grapes and wine. Here is one:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-cgj111604.php
Welch's funded at least one study at UWisconsin, but there have been a bunch of others not funded by the grape growers.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-cgj111604.php
Welch's funded at least one study at UWisconsin, but there have been a bunch of others not funded by the grape growers.
So like I said I stand corrected.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kingston, NY
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And some more (via Entrez PubMed):
Adv Exp Med Biol. 2002;505:95-111
Potential health benefits from the flavonoids in grape products on vascular disease.
Folts JD.
Coronary Thrombosis Research Laboratory, University of Wisconsin Medical School, Madison 53792-3248, USA. [email protected]
In the dog, monkey, a nd human we have shown that 5 ml/kg of red wine or 5-10 ml/kg of purple grape juice but not orange or grapefruit juice inhibits platelet activity, and protects against epinephrine activation of platelets. Red wine and purple grape juice enhances platelet and endothelial production of nitric oxide (Fitzpatrick et al., 1993, Parker et al., 2000). This is thought to be one of the mechanisms whereby purple grape juice significantly improved endothelial function in 15 patients with coronary artery disease. The consumption of purple grape juice by the patients also offered increased protection against LDL cholesterol oxidation, even though all the patients were also taking another antioxidant vitamin E, 400 IU/day. The number of people and animals in these studies was small; however, each one acted as their own control as measurements were made in each before, and then after consumption of red wine or purple grape juice. Thus these studies are thought to be significant. We feel that the results of these studies are encouraging and justify further research on larger numbers of subjects. This suggests that the flavonoids in purple grape juice and red wine may inhibit the initiation of atherosclerosis by one or more of the mechanisms described above. It will take years to fully characterize the potential benefits of daily consumption of red wine or purple grape juice for maintaining a healthy heart. Based on the existing evidence of antiplatelet and antioxidant benefits and improved endothelial function from red wine and purple grape juice, it seems reasonable to suggest that moderate amounts of red wine or purple grape juice be included among the 5-7 daily servings of fruits and vegetables per day as recommended by the American Heart Association to help reduce the risk of developing cardiovascular disease.
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Grape juice it is, then!
Adv Exp Med Biol. 2002;505:95-111
Potential health benefits from the flavonoids in grape products on vascular disease.
Folts JD.
Coronary Thrombosis Research Laboratory, University of Wisconsin Medical School, Madison 53792-3248, USA. [email protected]
In the dog, monkey, a nd human we have shown that 5 ml/kg of red wine or 5-10 ml/kg of purple grape juice but not orange or grapefruit juice inhibits platelet activity, and protects against epinephrine activation of platelets. Red wine and purple grape juice enhances platelet and endothelial production of nitric oxide (Fitzpatrick et al., 1993, Parker et al., 2000). This is thought to be one of the mechanisms whereby purple grape juice significantly improved endothelial function in 15 patients with coronary artery disease. The consumption of purple grape juice by the patients also offered increased protection against LDL cholesterol oxidation, even though all the patients were also taking another antioxidant vitamin E, 400 IU/day. The number of people and animals in these studies was small; however, each one acted as their own control as measurements were made in each before, and then after consumption of red wine or purple grape juice. Thus these studies are thought to be significant. We feel that the results of these studies are encouraging and justify further research on larger numbers of subjects. This suggests that the flavonoids in purple grape juice and red wine may inhibit the initiation of atherosclerosis by one or more of the mechanisms described above. It will take years to fully characterize the potential benefits of daily consumption of red wine or purple grape juice for maintaining a healthy heart. Based on the existing evidence of antiplatelet and antioxidant benefits and improved endothelial function from red wine and purple grape juice, it seems reasonable to suggest that moderate amounts of red wine or purple grape juice be included among the 5-7 daily servings of fruits and vegetables per day as recommended by the American Heart Association to help reduce the risk of developing cardiovascular disease.
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Grape juice it is, then!
Cruelty-Free
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by SPF 77
You do have to be careful where you get data like this....and I was...
Originally Posted by nocellphone
What would you think if the NRA took out an ad that said, "Blankety-blank percent of people survive bullet wounds, so guns aren't really sooooooooooo bad after all!!! Yay, guns!"?
Originally Posted by SPF 77
He he I'm amazed they actually havent.
Originally Posted by SPF 77
sorry I was in kinda a rotten mood when I wrote that last post and I think it reflected...thanks though for taking it with good humor.
Originally Posted by nocellphone
your sarcasm bone seems to be in good working order
Originally Posted by SPF 77
Hehe but your responses to it have been very good.
Originally Posted by SPF 77
Breathing air one could argue is slowly damaging our lungs due to all the polution....should then we advocate not breathing
I had a friend who smoked cigarettes and used the rationalization that "you could get hit by a bus and die more quickly than from smoking". I asked her if she was planning to stand in the street waiting for that bus to hit her.
Originally Posted by SPF 77
To be really honest I dont think there is much evidence that 1-2 drinks a day really DOES damage to the body.
Lemme ask this: if there's no damage done in having one or two drinks, what's up with all that stuff about not letting us drive when we've only had a coupla widdle dwinkee-poos? It could just be that our definitions of damage are different (uh-oh, here come several entries from dictionary.com, etc...
).Hey, who knows? I could be wrong!
Thanks for allowing this thread to be a bit of fun, y'all!
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I, on the other hand, prefer to simply talk out of my a$.
That's the way I take most everything. Keeps me (relatively) sane. Apology accepted, tho' I don't know that one was really required. We's cool!
Yes, I believe you've made that clear somewhere in the course of the other seventy-five times you've made that statement.
Lemme ask this: if there's no damage done in having one or two drinks, what's up with all that stuff about not letting us drive when we've only had a coupla widdle dwinkee-poos? It could just be that our definitions of damage are different (uh-oh, here come several entries from dictionary.com, etc... ).
Hey who knows I might be wrong.
Cruelty-Free
Thread Starter
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Location: Body: South Florida Heart: Yosemite National Park
Posts: 914
Originally Posted by SPF 77
hmmmm....hope you carry some mints with you...or hopefully at least a tic-tac
Originally Posted by SPF 77
Whoah, now whose counting?
Two! Two peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches!!! Bwa-ha-ha-ha!
Originally Posted by SPF 77
LOL....well we can probably agree on the definition of damage...but weren't we talking about the damage they do to our body directly...not what damage could be done through indirect actions.
Originally Posted by SPF 77
But regardless...its still always great to have a good ole fashioned debate with someone who at least is thinking about things, and coming up with their own viewpoints.
Cruelty-Free
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Originally Posted by SPF 77
" To weird to Live...To unique to Die" -Hunter S. Thompson.
My next thought was, "Um... his whole life was a suicide note".
Tragic. Sad. Not unexpected.
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luen
My next thought was, "Um... his whole life was a suicide note".
Tragic. Sad. Not unexpected.
Funny how the most observant...and the most intellegent are the ones who always go first........intellgence=decadence=homicidance (or whatever you want to call it).
Hell the way our society is going...who can blame the (censored....we never know whos' listening do we).
<CENSORED sake kiddies the for>
Originally Posted by nocellphone
My next thought was, "Um... his whole life was a suicide note".
Tragic. Sad. Not unexpected.
Funny how the most observant...and the most intellegent are the ones who always go first........intellgence=decadence=homicidance (or whatever you want to call it).
Hell the way our society is going...who can blame the (censored....we never know whos' listening do we).
<CENSORED sake kiddies the for>
Cruelty-Free
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Body: South Florida Heart: Yosemite National Park
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Originally Posted by SPF 77
who can blame the (censored....we never know whos' listening do we).
Y'know SPF, you might want to check out Paranoid's Anonymous...?
Problem is, no one'll tell anybody where the meetings are held!
Old and in the Way
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Originally Posted by nocellphone
Y'know SPF, you might want to check out Paranoid's Anonymous...?
Problem is, no one'll tell anybody where the meetings are held!
Problem is, no one'll tell anybody where the meetings are held!
everything is already ok
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
Posts: 19,793
I was pleased to read that I can 't get a little pregnant
What about all the known thingies that are good for the heart?
(thingies being a highly evolved tech term, especially for this time in the mornong)
What about all the known thingies that are good for the heart?
(thingies being a highly evolved tech term, especially for this time in the mornong)
Been there and done.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Coast North America
Posts: 269
Originally Posted by nocellphone
Y'know SPF, you might want to check out Paranoid's Anonymous...?
Problem is, no one'll tell anybody where the meetings are held!
Problem is, no one'll tell anybody where the meetings are held!
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Originally Posted by nocellphone
Y'know SPF, you might want to check out Paranoid's Anonymous...?
Problem is, no one'll tell anybody where the meetings are held!
Problem is, no one'll tell anybody where the meetings are held!
Paranoids Anonymous....isn't that just another name for the Libertarian Party
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