StayingSober

Ok, I'm not quite sure how much I've posted about my battle with my alcohol addiction here so I'll try to give a quick summary. About a year ago I hit rock bottom, drinking all night, wake up in the early afternoon and start all over again. Everyone I knew and cared about left me. I was broke, had no job, no one to turn to for help. Also trying to live with depression (without medication too... but that's another story).

A couple of months later and I'm doing well. I've got a good job. Plenty of good friends. No booze. And no depression (or a managable level of depression anyway).

Now, as recently as yesterday I've turned to alcohol when things go badly.
But there's a big difference between that and what I used to do.
Yesterday I stopped after just two beers.
I'm not going to fool myself into thinking that I'll never have problems with alcohol again and that I am no longer addicted. Because I am addicted, but I can live with that so long as I don't give in to that addiction.
Just thought it'd be a good idea for me to post something positive here for a change.

Lively

The problem is that an alcoholic will start off drinking again after some period of sobriety thinking they can have only 2. Then sooner or later it's 4, then 6, then 12 and we can't stop. Right back to square one. I finally learned that I cannot drink. At all. Ever again. You're risking losing all that you've regained in your life.

That being said, I hope you stick around. I hope I wasn't too much of a downer for you. Congrats on getting your life back together. I just don't want to see you back in 6 months telling us about everything you're once again lost because of your addiction.

NoMoBeer

Hope you don't have another bottom coming soon.....

I'm in a Big Book quoting mood today, this came to mind:

"Then he fell victim to a belief which practically
every alcoholic has -- that his long period of sobriety
and self-discipline had qualified him to drink as
other men."

I'm an alcoholic. I can't go back to being a regular drinker, same as a pickle can't go back to being a cucumber....

Good Luck!

Ken

CarolD

Hi SS...Your choice is simply that...your choice. Your life.

I just read your previous post. I suggest you do the same.

I hope all goes well.

findingout

Hey StayingSober,

Sorry, I can't see any difference here. It's not the quantity, it's the turning to alcohol when things go badly. For me, one is too many and one thousand is never enough.

But, as CarolD said, it is your life and your choice.

One Love, One Heart,
Tony

ChampionRabbit

I'm certain that there are some people who can return to regular drinking habits, although I'm not one of them.

Those of you who say that turning to booze in times of trouble is indicative of problem drinking are talking nonsense; non-alkies often turn to booze at depressing times. Drinking if you've had a bad day can be part of a completely normal relationship with booze.

Sadly it's not a relationship I'll ever have, but it's almost certainly possible.

Just wanted to provide some balance.

Adam

MNGirlyGirl

....but you did give in to the addiction. It's just a matter of time before you are using like you did. I hope you find the strength to overcome. If you are going to drink only 2 -- why bother at all?

ChampionRabbit

Because alcohol in moderation can be a pleasant thing?

Not that I can drink in moderation, but once I could and it was sometimes nice to have 2 drinks...

Your statement speaks about your attitude (and mine) to booze far more than the person you are directing it at.

Remember: Booze is NOT evil. Booze CAN be enjoyed by many in small qualitities. WE are the idiots who can't drink; there's little to be gained by following the path of sour grapes.



Adam

Don S

Not necessarily. Everyone is different and nothing is inevitable. We can't predict whether SS will learn to drink in moderation (people do), will have occasional relapses but be mostly sober (people do that too) or decide to become completely abstinent (my choice).
Congratulations, SS, on having become mostly alcohol-free. If you find you want alcohol when things are going badly, it might be wise to find another way to cope with that distress. Planning for urges is one of the things people who achieve long-term sobriety do.
Don S

j'ade d'arcy

i too believe that some people will be able to drink in moderation one day. i just don't think that i will be one of them.

i guess ss wil need to be vigilant about the signs that their using has gone out of control again. we all know the signs, especially after getting sober. i just hope that the addiciton dosen't do what addictions usually do....that is sneak up on you.

i wish you the best ss, good thoughts towards you!!

AndrewBeen

I personally have never heard of anyone who clearly became an alcoholic and was later able to drink moderately. Never. If you are able to do that, you would be the first. However, we won't know for sure for say 5 years or so from now.

OK now: knowing the historical odds, do you want to experiment on yourself, just to see if you could be the first? Knowing that the cost will be everything you value in life? If the answer is yes, then PLEASE keep us posted on at least a yearly basis.

Don S

http://www.peele.net/lib/mullen.html
I always perk up when I see the word never.
Don S

michaelj

Stayingsober,
I wish you only the best but I am concerned that the couple of beers will lead to more.
I know I can't drink in moderation and I can't risk my sobriety by even thinking that I might be able to do so.
I regularly have the odd thought that a couple of beers would be OK, then I put my thinking head on and kick these thoughts as far away as possible.
Best wishes
Michael

findingout

Thanks Don This was very interesting and I really liked the end (sorry to spoil it for anyone)

Why do my friend - and so many others who are in AA or treatment - find it necessary to discount Tom's story? Why can't they respect his integrity and his hard-fought sobriety?

Many members of A.A. believe that true sobriety cannot include even moderate use although the English language (as defined here by the Merriam-Webster dictionary) cleary disagrees:
But I think the important part here is that the man experienced ten years of complete abstinence before he re-introduced alchohol into his life and even after he did start using in moderation he maintained close connections with recovery. Ten years is not equal to one month, three months or three years. For me, when I started and today, complete abstinence from all drugs is the only result I want to pursue. For me, having the goal of drinking again one day would just feed into the obsession that it is not possible to have a happy, joyful, and serene life unless alcohol is involved. For me, today, I don't need to drink, I don't want to drink, and I continue to grow in ways that I don't believe would be possible if I re-introduced drugs into my life. Today, I have a choice, 35 months ago I did not.

My life, my choice.

One Love, One Heart,
Tony

Millwallj

PEELE?????

Don - are you crazy????

That stuff is quite potent. Peele is a sweaty, proffessional lunatic. But a much needed voice.

I keep my Peele readings in private.

Millwallj

#

Tony...that last paragraph pretty much sumerises my change in attitude toward life.

You summed it up neatly.

Don S

Well, at least you read his work. Demonizing Peele is standard operating procedure by the more ardent 12-steppers on these forums. He's actually a very articulate man with a lively sense of humor.

Peele doesn't really advocate anything in particular except that our social drug policies, especially in the US, are ineffective, coercive, and seriously in need of change. But his analyses of research are very useful, particulary when anyone makes an absolute statement about the nature of addiction, the progression of substance abuse, or the efficacy of various treatments.

For example, his recommendation that 'harm reduction' be considered as a reasonable outcome for addiction management programs doesn't mean he is saying that you or I should adopt it as a strategy for ourselves--just that measuring the outcome of any particular policy only in terms of abstinence isn't reasonable or effective from a societal standpoint.

That doesn't fit in with the tools at AA, SMART Recovery, RR, or other abstinence-based programs. But that doesn't matter; he's talking about social programs. The key point is that recovery choices are very individual, and that no one description fits everyone. So you have to be honest with yourself about what your situation is and make that choice, rather than let anyone tell you what is going to happen to you or prescribe some program as the best or the only approach. But in that choice you have the power you need to enact change.

One of the things that bothers me about this thread is that we have a person who has achieved a significant degree of power over drinking, and who simply posted about that. And the immediate replies were not congratulations but dire warnings about inevitable regression into abusive drinking:
'....sooner or later....we all....you did give in to your addiction....'
It is perfectly reasonable to state that you personally don't believe a couple of beers would be a good choice. To state that you are concerned that someone is not taking their past history into account as they make that decision. To post a loving concern that they will want to watch for the signs of increasing use or abuse. But predictions and absolute statements are not reasonable.
Don S

Don S

Here are some ravings from the lunatic:

Six Principles of Change


One. The belief that you can change is the key to change. This is not the powerlessness message of the 12 steps but rather the belief in self-efficacy. Addictions are really no different than other behaviors—believing you can change encourages commitment to the process and enhances the likelihood of success.


Two. The type of treatment is less critical than the individual’s commitment to change. People can select how they want to pursue change in line with their own values and preferences. They don’t need to be told how to change.


Three. Brief treatments can change longstanding habits. It is not the intensity of the treatment that allows people to change but rather its ability to inspire continued efforts in that direction.


Four. Life skills can be the key to licking addiction. All addictions may not be equal; the community reinforcement approach, with its emphasis on developing life skills, might be needed for those more severely debilitated by drugs and alcohol.


Five. Repeated efforts are critical in change. People do not often get better instantly—it usually takes multiple efforts. Providing follow-up allows people to maintain focus on their change goals. Eventually, they stand a good chance of achieving them.


Six. Improvement, without abstinence, counts. People do not usually succeed all at once. But they can show significant improvements; and all improvement should be accepted and rewarded. It is counterproductive to kick people out of therapy for failing to abstain. The therapeutic approach of recognizing improvement in the absence of abstinence is called harm reduction.

http://www.peele.net/lib/surprising.html

Millwallj

Yes Don.

I think he does have an ax to grind though - and his madful commitment to not looking at any AA positives suggest he may have a few biasis in his thinking...

In the whole I agree with you totally.

I would say, and I mean this with conviction: that people who are predicting this threads mans future are not at fault: cults work in that manner.

Brainwashing and fear lead to a very structured pschology amongst AA members. I dont blame them, I blame the literature - which has not changed itself in over half a century (presumbley because the writers, too, are part of the cult).

Peele shatters illusions and beleifs that are part of meetings, part of AA. For some - who have suffered mental torture and self mortification in AA - his writings will be a God send. But for those who beleive what they hear in meetings then he is a fat Devil. And I dont think I would feel comftable letting him loose amongst SR serenity angels.

Millwallj

And what has it got to do with you?

He is trying to post something positive.

Its ironic when people think they are helping, when they could actually be making this mans dilema a lot worse.