LumenandNyx

Yo and hello,

Just a thought - by all means - let me know if this idea doesn't fit your experience.

I will - as usual - use myself as an example. This is my second true north experience in recovery. I pulled it off once before when I lived on the west coast of Oregon. While I lived next to the ocean I managed to accumulate just over 20 months of sobriety. This time around, I'm closing the gap on 6 months. Here's what I'm getting at....

I moved back to the city from the coast and relapsed. Once I did that, I stayed drunk for the next four years until I finally got sober again this past March. While I don't have the sober time under my belt that I had before, my guess, and this is partly due to some of the posts I read here, is that I will have to be wary of my AV and a return of cravings for the rest of my life. However long that's going to be.

Alcoholics are a strange bunch. I think we have to always remain vigil - at least to the extent where our AV is concerned. When I hear or read about someone with one or two decades relapsing, my heart sinks. And that's a common theme. It's disheartening to hear/read when someone with that much time on the wagon face plants. Folks get complacent and comfortable in their sobriety and it's like the AV wakes up from a 20 year nap and says "SURPRISE!!" (insert evil laugh)

The 20 months that I accumulated on the coast weren't long enough for me to get complacent and comfortable in them. Moving to the noise and chaos of the city was all I needed to convince myself that alcohol would make everything go away. There's too much incoming in cities, too much noise, too much commotion, too much cement.

I suppose there's a certain mindset that accompanies a successful life of sobriety and recovery. I remember feeling adamant about staying sober during the numerous attempts I made and failed at it. So - what did I do differently on the coast and what am I doing differently here now? Nothing. I'm not doing ANYTHING different. I'm just not drinking.

dwtbd

In AVRT the AV is any positive thought, image or feeling about alcohol consumption AND any doubt in your ability to remain abstinent.
The presence of AV isn't anything to be weary of, if you have decided to quit for good, if you have made a Big Plan and pledged to yourself to never again drink and to never change your mind on that decision.

The thing to be weary of is talking yourself back into dissolving the separation between You, the rationally self interested , higher level, neocortex you and the base level want/urge/desire for alcohol, the Beast.

Making the Big Plan provides the separation and any thought or desire to go against that Plan is easily identified as AV .

Make a Big Plan and be free to set your confidence level at 100% that in two decades hence you will be able to recognize , instantly, any thought about deviation from the Plan , realize it as AV and shut it down, ignore It ,every time. No worries

Aellyce

Environment is a very well-known factor in the development of addiction, as well as in relapses. I actually study this for living, as a scientist. I definitely experienced the former. My alcoholism escalated very fast in my early 30s, after moving to a place that was just plain incompatible with me in many ways - it was the middle of the continent, in a middle-sized, boring city without cultural diversity. I also hated my job and workplace there. Sadly, I got stuck there for almost 3 years and turned into a full-blown, advanced alcoholic, feeling like suffocating everyday, not only by my addiction but everything around me. I escaped in the end into an environment that's pretty much my ideal (well, it was before 2020) - I got better mentally and in my life satisfaction, but not sober. It took quite a few more years and intense, everyday effort to finally get sober, but still relapsed briefly after ~2 years...now I have >4 years. Don't know if I could have done this in the previous environment... probably, but I suspect it would have been much more difficult, perhaps with more setbacks and destruction. In my view, environment can be like a matrix, in either a supportive or destructive way. But it is still hardcore effort to get out of an addiction and I completely agree it takes ongoing vigilance to maintain long-term sobriety and a lifestyle without destruction, for those of us who are prone to it.

So I hear you. I was a bit scared early this year when COVID started, that the changes in New York City might pose a risk for mental health decline or even relapsing for me... but it turned out sort of the opposite and my mental health has not been this good for more than 15 years! Now I am contemplating moving into a less urban environment again (partly because there is no point in dealing with the expenses here anymore, but also for novelty). This time somewhere quiet with lots of nature, probably still at the coast (interesting how I like being close to the ocean, given that I was born and raised in the middle of another continent) not a boring town in the middle of nowhere. Not sure yet, I will wait to see how things progress next year. So, it is not always that predictable, we change over time, our preferences also change.

Congrats and I wish you lasting success!

ciowa

The way I feel right now, to go back to drinking means I will make a conscious decision to give up the life I've built while being sober. There is no way I can hold on to what I have now or make progress with alcohol being in my life. And Im one of those drinkers who doesnt believe in moderation but goes for the full blow out almost every single time. So I have no illusions or desire for sitting around a restaurant table having 2 beers and going home, read a book and go softly to sleep.

Environment has been a big factor for me. In recovery, I moved to a different state and live in a nice quiet suburb. I don't really know anyone outside of the various recovery meetings I go to and my girlfriends large family. In my hometown, I lived in the middle of a large bar hopping scene and I was a full blown member of that scene. Living by myself and being my own supervisor, I had very little accountability in that environment. Now things are much different and I have to admit that I do wonder if I would have been successful in recovery had I not moved to somewhere totally different to do it.

Dee74

Just sharing my experience - I think I needed to get to a place of comfort with recovery.

I built a life geared to drinking, now I needed to build a life that reflected my desire to stay sober.
Things like coming here everyday help me not get too complacent.

It also stops me from thinking my recovery is so good I'm no longer an addict and I can drink normally now - I've seen that one around more than once.

As long as I stay grounded the madness can't get me.

D

boreas

I got sober in the same house where I got drunk. For me, the key was finding something that supported my mental, physical, and spiritual health. Turns out there was a runner (or “person who tries to run”)in me.

Thankfully, where I live provides opportunities to get out and do what I see as my therapy. And when I was injured earlier this year and couldn’t run, I had strength enough to weather that too.

I think the key is to find things that make you feel content. Some environments make that easier than others.

Totally agree. I’ve invested a great deal to be a person I can tolerate. It is a prized possession I wouldn’t want to give up.
-bora