Constant Depressing Cycle
natalie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: perth western australia
Posts: 17
Constant Depressing Cycle
I feel great I feel really energetic and then I f*** it up yet again. I drink alcohol, it feels so good when I drink, the problem is I cant stop drinking. I feel so sick and depressed the next day, I hate myself, I tell myself Iam never drinking again. It takes me a few days to feel normal again I feel really good I feel normal again. Then I do it again I go out and drink with friends, I have no control. I hate myself for being so weak, I always do such stupid things when iam drunk. Is there ever going to be an end to this constantly depressing crap. Iam so angry with myself, I have no control anymore. Theres no point saying Iam not drinking again because I always f*** that idea up.
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
Hi Wokachick
I also only posted today...your story sounds depressingly similar to my own!!I think what I have learnt from the people here is just that alcohol basically is poison. It's your master and some people like us have NO CONTROL over it - doesn't matter how we want to.
I am going to an AA meeting tonight...it's amazing how many there are even in the small country I live in (well probably especially the small country I live in, if you saw where I lived!!!
There are loads of meetings, at least one a day even in small places.
Why don't you give it a try - I have noticed here people try very hard not to ram AA down anyone's throats saying there are different ways, etc etc Having said that, I just that the real successes that I am aware of are AA cases, that's why I am going to try it and stick with it.
On the AA board they actually have all the steps - I have read Step 1 and it really resonated with me.
A friend of mine's wife is an alcoholic (he doesn't know about me - we are work friends, not social) anyway he said he learned from Al-Anon that it's a progressive illness...ie IT JUST GETS WORSE! I found that quite scary. If we don't stop, we can be assured that it will get worse. Frightening!
Keep us posted, and good luck!
Cathy
I also only posted today...your story sounds depressingly similar to my own!!I think what I have learnt from the people here is just that alcohol basically is poison. It's your master and some people like us have NO CONTROL over it - doesn't matter how we want to.
I am going to an AA meeting tonight...it's amazing how many there are even in the small country I live in (well probably especially the small country I live in, if you saw where I lived!!!
There are loads of meetings, at least one a day even in small places.Why don't you give it a try - I have noticed here people try very hard not to ram AA down anyone's throats saying there are different ways, etc etc Having said that, I just that the real successes that I am aware of are AA cases, that's why I am going to try it and stick with it.
On the AA board they actually have all the steps - I have read Step 1 and it really resonated with me.
A friend of mine's wife is an alcoholic (he doesn't know about me - we are work friends, not social) anyway he said he learned from Al-Anon that it's a progressive illness...ie IT JUST GETS WORSE! I found that quite scary. If we don't stop, we can be assured that it will get worse. Frightening!
Keep us posted, and good luck!
Cathy
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso, Tx
Posts: 5,862
Welcome wokachick!
Your not alone here. We do understand, I've been there. In the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous (which is my bible nearly now, and offers great reminders of why we are what we are, and how to find your own solution) I happened upon this reading this week, and maybe it will help you to not beat yourself up:
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so called will power becomes practically non-existent. We are unable at certain times, to brin into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the sufferin and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense agains the first drink.
For me this was so true. I'd go a couple of days (rarely) get to feeling pretty good, then have to test the waters again, only to wake up hungover beyond belief, guilty, shameful. I was a closet drinker, quit going to the bars a long time ago. Did my drinking at home after work, took care of my family, the house, so I justified it as being my reprieve from the day. My only vice, what was the harm? The harm I was slowly killing myself one day at a time year after year until I couldn't do it anymore. I was scared of sobriety. How the hell could I live my life without ever drinking again? I found the solution in AA, it's simple, you take it one day at a time, sometimes one minute, one hour, and follow the suggestions they offer. They are only suggestions, but for many they work.
I know I couldn't do it alone. My life had come to a stand still. I worked,drank, barely managed my household responsibilities with anger and resentment and made everyone else around me just as miserable as I was in the end. Have faith and courage in yourself, don't fear the unknown, as it's beautiful on the otherside. *hugs*
Your not alone here. We do understand, I've been there. In the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous (which is my bible nearly now, and offers great reminders of why we are what we are, and how to find your own solution) I happened upon this reading this week, and maybe it will help you to not beat yourself up:
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so called will power becomes practically non-existent. We are unable at certain times, to brin into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the sufferin and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense agains the first drink.
For me this was so true. I'd go a couple of days (rarely) get to feeling pretty good, then have to test the waters again, only to wake up hungover beyond belief, guilty, shameful. I was a closet drinker, quit going to the bars a long time ago. Did my drinking at home after work, took care of my family, the house, so I justified it as being my reprieve from the day. My only vice, what was the harm? The harm I was slowly killing myself one day at a time year after year until I couldn't do it anymore. I was scared of sobriety. How the hell could I live my life without ever drinking again? I found the solution in AA, it's simple, you take it one day at a time, sometimes one minute, one hour, and follow the suggestions they offer. They are only suggestions, but for many they work.
I know I couldn't do it alone. My life had come to a stand still. I worked,drank, barely managed my household responsibilities with anger and resentment and made everyone else around me just as miserable as I was in the end. Have faith and courage in yourself, don't fear the unknown, as it's beautiful on the otherside. *hugs*
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink.
...except for the first drink.
Research seems to be showing that the decision to take the first drink is made in the 'rational' part of your brain (I'm using the term 'rational' literally; the results of making that decision may well be 'irrational'!). The decision to take each subsequent drink seems to be made in the 'emotional' part of the brain. Emotional decisions, as we all know, are often less healthy for us.
So avoid that first drink. That's the key. You may well have urges to drink it--very, very strong urges, that seem beyond your control. But urges DO pass.
Plan for when they're likely to happen, fill your time with other things, seek support when you feel uncomfortable (we're here 24 hours a day!). And just wait. Urges DO pass, and the longer you go without drinking, the less intense and the less frequent they become.
Take care,
Don S
...except for the first drink.
Research seems to be showing that the decision to take the first drink is made in the 'rational' part of your brain (I'm using the term 'rational' literally; the results of making that decision may well be 'irrational'!). The decision to take each subsequent drink seems to be made in the 'emotional' part of the brain. Emotional decisions, as we all know, are often less healthy for us.
So avoid that first drink. That's the key. You may well have urges to drink it--very, very strong urges, that seem beyond your control. But urges DO pass.
Plan for when they're likely to happen, fill your time with other things, seek support when you feel uncomfortable (we're here 24 hours a day!). And just wait. Urges DO pass, and the longer you go without drinking, the less intense and the less frequent they become.
Take care,
Don S
LOST!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 34
Wokachick,
I am 56 years old. I finally got so tired of feeling sick and tired. You think that you will never be able to stop. It is 9 months now. I am learning how to cope with life without the alcohol. It is much better this way. I am sick no longer but sometimes bored. But, I'd rather be bored any day than hungover. May God Bless you. I will keep you in my prayers. Keep coming here in the few days that I'm here it has helped me so much.
Carole
I am 56 years old. I finally got so tired of feeling sick and tired. You think that you will never be able to stop. It is 9 months now. I am learning how to cope with life without the alcohol. It is much better this way. I am sick no longer but sometimes bored. But, I'd rather be bored any day than hungover. May God Bless you. I will keep you in my prayers. Keep coming here in the few days that I'm here it has helped me so much.
Carole
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally Posted by wokachick
I feel great I feel really energetic and then I f*** it up yet again. I drink alcohol, it feels so good when I drink, the problem is I cant stop drinking. I feel so sick and depressed the next day, I hate myself, I tell myself Iam never drinking again. It takes me a few days to feel normal again I feel really good I feel normal again. Then I do it again I go out and drink with friends, I have no control. I hate myself for being so weak, I always do such stupid things when iam drunk. Is there ever going to be an end to this constantly depressing crap. Iam so angry with myself, I have no control anymore. Theres no point saying Iam not drinking again because I always f*** that idea up.
That's how the disease works!! And yes, there will be an end to all that "depressing crap" as soon as you take the necessary steps to get sober, instead of just not drinking.
natalie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: perth western australia
Posts: 17
Dear Herairnmess, Thankyou so much for your reply. I always thought that it was only bad people that were drunks, people with no hearts. You made me realise that good people are also stuck with this disease. You have a good heart Herairnmess, Thankyou and god bless
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Hi again chick,
I love Don S to peaces but I wish I knew what part of the brain of an alcoholic was rational. That's the whole point. There is no rational thinking when an alcoholic starts thinking about taking a drink. I think the second drink is a reaction to the first drink. I don't know who the hell is doing this "research," or who they're doing it on but to use the word "rational".....come on??? What's rational about drinking, getting drunk, doing weird anti-social things, throwing up, passing out, waking up hungover, swearing to never do it again and an hour later ordering that first drink to start the process all over again?
Chick, if you have the feeling that you need some help, please go with that feeling. Don't wait around any longer BSing yourself by thinking you can stop on your own. You can save yourself a whole lot of grief by asking for f2f support. I know that means talking to someone but it could save your life.
I love Don S to peaces but I wish I knew what part of the brain of an alcoholic was rational. That's the whole point. There is no rational thinking when an alcoholic starts thinking about taking a drink. I think the second drink is a reaction to the first drink. I don't know who the hell is doing this "research," or who they're doing it on but to use the word "rational".....come on??? What's rational about drinking, getting drunk, doing weird anti-social things, throwing up, passing out, waking up hungover, swearing to never do it again and an hour later ordering that first drink to start the process all over again?
Chick, if you have the feeling that you need some help, please go with that feeling. Don't wait around any longer BSing yourself by thinking you can stop on your own. You can save yourself a whole lot of grief by asking for f2f support. I know that means talking to someone but it could save your life.
natalie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: perth western australia
Posts: 17
Dear Music I can kinda understand where don is coming from what he said about rational. The first drink is much easier to avoid (well to an extent) than the drinks after that. I think that if I can find the strength to say no to the first drink I will definetly say no to the second bottle of bourbon.
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso, Tx
Posts: 5,862
For me it was difficult to avoid that first drink because I rationalized my self right into the irrational decision justifying that "rational" thought all the while kicking myself in the ass.
As mentioned, if something is telling you you need help with this, just ask!
As mentioned, if something is telling you you need help with this, just ask!
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Some people find this stuff interesting; others find it a distraction. Don't lose your focus: the goal is sobriety, and Music's statement that 'I think the second drink is a reaction to the first drink' is just as good a description as any of this! I wouldn't get side-tracked into a deep exploration of brain science unless you like to do that kind of thing to fill your evenings. But filling your evenings can be an important step in staying sober!
The research describes the process; it doesn't prescribe how to stop it. But it can help explain why we sometimes drink more than we intended to when we're trying to moderate, and why it's so difficult to stop. For me, it helps reinforce my commitment to abstinence: much as I might enjoy that first glass of wine, I know that I will want more and that once I give myself permission I'm unlikely, based on past experience, to stop.
The take home message is: the easiest drink to prevent is the one we can decide about while our reasoning processes are strongest. The more we drink, the harder it is to stop drinking.
I used the term 'rational' in the objective sense. Of course, we can make unhealthy, imprudent, short-sighted decisions with our 'rational' brain. Is there anyone here who hasn't talked himself or herself into drinking, when we intended to stop? Wasn't the third drink easier to 'rationalize' than the first?
In fact, the same interplay of brain regions is probably involved in overeating and other compulsive behaviors, and possibly with anxiety, fear, etc.--which often play a part in substance abuse.
I'm referring to the neo-cortex, specifically the amygdala:
In contrast to the primitive hypothalamus, the amygdala is preeminent in the control and mediation of all higher order emotional and motivational activities, including the capacity to form emotional attachments and to feel love. Neurons located in the amygdala are able to monitor and abstract from the sensory array stimuli that are of motivational significance so as to organize and express appropriate feelings and behaviors.
This includes the ability to discern and express even subtle social-emotional nuances such as friendliness, fear, affection, distrust, anger, etc., and at a more basic level, determine if something might be good to eat. In fact, amygdaloid neurons respond selectively to the flavor of certain preferred foods, as well as to the sight or sound of something that might be especially desirable to eat.
Moreover, some neurons located in the amygdala are responsive to faces and facial emotions conveyed by others. Many neurons are also able to respond to visual, tactual, olfactory, and auditory stimuli simultaneously. Hence, many amygdaloid neurons are predominantly polymodal, responding to a variety of stimuli from different modalities. It is in this manner that the amygdala has come to be involved not only in emotion, but attention, and learning and memory, for multimodal assimilation of various sensory impressions occurs in this region.
http://Brain-Mind.com/
So, that part of our brain synthesizes all the stuff we see and hear, and it's where we make judgments and decisions. It's also the part we can re-train.
When we drink, we get stupid. Alcohol and other drugs suppress the 'higher order' thinking of this part of the brain, and thought processes tend to move to, or get more affected by, the more primitive hypothalamus.
Emotions elicited by the hypothalamus are largely undirected, short-lived, and unconnected with events occurring within the external environment, being triggered reflexively and without concern or understanding regarding consequences. Direct contact with the real world is quite limited and almost entirely indirect as the hypothalamus is largely concerned with the internal environment of the organism. It has no sense of morals, danger, values, logic, etc., and cannot feel or express love or hate. Although quite powerful, hypothalamic emotions are largely undifferentiated, consisting of feelings such as pleasure, unpleasure, aversion, rage, hunger, thirst, etc.
As the hypothalamus is concerned with the internal environment much of it's activity occurs outside conscious-awareness. Moreover, being involved in maintaining internal homeostasis, via, for example, it's ability to reward or punish the organism with feelings of pleasure or aversion, it tends to serve what Sigmund Freud described as the "pleasure principle".
Jack Trimpey of Rational Recovery makes a big deal of this; you might call it the central concept of his program. You have a normal brain, and an Addictive Voice, which he calls the Beast (both terms are copyrighted, but I don't know how to insert that little symbol into this text). The Addictive Voice, he says, is in the 'primitive brain', and his approach amounts to a set of techniques for having your cerebral cortex (normal brain) vigorously dispute that voice.
For more, see http://rational.org//html_public_are...structure.html
Be forewarned, though, about his style and his attitudes about other programs.
Don S
The research describes the process; it doesn't prescribe how to stop it. But it can help explain why we sometimes drink more than we intended to when we're trying to moderate, and why it's so difficult to stop. For me, it helps reinforce my commitment to abstinence: much as I might enjoy that first glass of wine, I know that I will want more and that once I give myself permission I'm unlikely, based on past experience, to stop.
The take home message is: the easiest drink to prevent is the one we can decide about while our reasoning processes are strongest. The more we drink, the harder it is to stop drinking.
I used the term 'rational' in the objective sense. Of course, we can make unhealthy, imprudent, short-sighted decisions with our 'rational' brain. Is there anyone here who hasn't talked himself or herself into drinking, when we intended to stop? Wasn't the third drink easier to 'rationalize' than the first?
In fact, the same interplay of brain regions is probably involved in overeating and other compulsive behaviors, and possibly with anxiety, fear, etc.--which often play a part in substance abuse.
I'm referring to the neo-cortex, specifically the amygdala:
In contrast to the primitive hypothalamus, the amygdala is preeminent in the control and mediation of all higher order emotional and motivational activities, including the capacity to form emotional attachments and to feel love. Neurons located in the amygdala are able to monitor and abstract from the sensory array stimuli that are of motivational significance so as to organize and express appropriate feelings and behaviors.
This includes the ability to discern and express even subtle social-emotional nuances such as friendliness, fear, affection, distrust, anger, etc., and at a more basic level, determine if something might be good to eat. In fact, amygdaloid neurons respond selectively to the flavor of certain preferred foods, as well as to the sight or sound of something that might be especially desirable to eat.
Moreover, some neurons located in the amygdala are responsive to faces and facial emotions conveyed by others. Many neurons are also able to respond to visual, tactual, olfactory, and auditory stimuli simultaneously. Hence, many amygdaloid neurons are predominantly polymodal, responding to a variety of stimuli from different modalities. It is in this manner that the amygdala has come to be involved not only in emotion, but attention, and learning and memory, for multimodal assimilation of various sensory impressions occurs in this region.
http://Brain-Mind.com/
So, that part of our brain synthesizes all the stuff we see and hear, and it's where we make judgments and decisions. It's also the part we can re-train.
When we drink, we get stupid. Alcohol and other drugs suppress the 'higher order' thinking of this part of the brain, and thought processes tend to move to, or get more affected by, the more primitive hypothalamus.
Emotions elicited by the hypothalamus are largely undirected, short-lived, and unconnected with events occurring within the external environment, being triggered reflexively and without concern or understanding regarding consequences. Direct contact with the real world is quite limited and almost entirely indirect as the hypothalamus is largely concerned with the internal environment of the organism. It has no sense of morals, danger, values, logic, etc., and cannot feel or express love or hate. Although quite powerful, hypothalamic emotions are largely undifferentiated, consisting of feelings such as pleasure, unpleasure, aversion, rage, hunger, thirst, etc.
As the hypothalamus is concerned with the internal environment much of it's activity occurs outside conscious-awareness. Moreover, being involved in maintaining internal homeostasis, via, for example, it's ability to reward or punish the organism with feelings of pleasure or aversion, it tends to serve what Sigmund Freud described as the "pleasure principle".
Jack Trimpey of Rational Recovery makes a big deal of this; you might call it the central concept of his program. You have a normal brain, and an Addictive Voice, which he calls the Beast (both terms are copyrighted, but I don't know how to insert that little symbol into this text). The Addictive Voice, he says, is in the 'primitive brain', and his approach amounts to a set of techniques for having your cerebral cortex (normal brain) vigorously dispute that voice.
For more, see http://rational.org//html_public_are...structure.html
Be forewarned, though, about his style and his attitudes about other programs.
Don S
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The Field of Dreams
Posts: 7,249
Originally Posted by Music
Hi again chick,
I love Don S to peaces but I wish I knew what part of the brain of an alcoholic was rational. That's the whole point. There is no rational thinking when an alcoholic starts thinking about taking a drink. I think the second drink is a reaction to the first drink. I don't know who the hell is doing this "research," or who they're doing it on but to use the word "rational".....come on??? What's rational about drinking, getting drunk, doing weird anti-social things, throwing up, passing out, waking up hungover, swearing to never do it again and an hour later ordering that first drink to start the process all over again?
Chick, if you have the feeling that you need some help, please go with that feeling. Don't wait around any longer BSing yourself by thinking you can stop on your own. You can save yourself a whole lot of grief by asking for f2f support. I know that means talking to someone but it could save your life.
I love Don S to peaces but I wish I knew what part of the brain of an alcoholic was rational. That's the whole point. There is no rational thinking when an alcoholic starts thinking about taking a drink. I think the second drink is a reaction to the first drink. I don't know who the hell is doing this "research," or who they're doing it on but to use the word "rational".....come on??? What's rational about drinking, getting drunk, doing weird anti-social things, throwing up, passing out, waking up hungover, swearing to never do it again and an hour later ordering that first drink to start the process all over again?
Chick, if you have the feeling that you need some help, please go with that feeling. Don't wait around any longer BSing yourself by thinking you can stop on your own. You can save yourself a whole lot of grief by asking for f2f support. I know that means talking to someone but it could save your life.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: conroe texas
Posts: 2
The only way to get out of that evil cycle is to find God and pray everyday .....short prayers throughout the day....Say the "Prayer of Jabez' everyday...look it up on google.....This has saved my life so far.....I go through the same thing and I finally found God by reading the book "the prayer of jabez" and reading the psalms in the bible out loud to rid the demons that are tempting you and winning...Trust me that is what it is ...read out loud and don't stop no matter what is happening when you are reading the psalms....if you are a believer you will be protected......YOU MUST DO THIS TO SAVE YOUR LIFE ON EARTH AND HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. THE DEVIL IS TRYING TO KILL YOU!!!!
RICK
RICK
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally Posted by keyrod
The only way to get out of that evil cycle is to find God and pray everyday .....short prayers throughout the day....Say the "Prayer of Jabez' everyday...look it up on google.....This has saved my life so far.....I go through the same thing and I finally found God by reading the book "the prayer of jabez" and reading the psalms in the bible out loud to rid the demons that are tempting you and winning...Trust me that is what it is ...read out loud and don't stop no matter what is happening when you are reading the psalms....if you are a believer you will be protected......YOU MUST DO THIS TO SAVE YOUR LIFE ON EARTH AND HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. THE DEVIL IS TRYING TO KILL YOU!!!!
RICK
RICK
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 872
Wokachick...
WELCOME!
Funny, everyone's stories always sound like my own. Could be b/c we are all alcoholics.
Please, let's not make this a thread of differences of opinions. There is a way of recovery for everyone out there.
My choice happens to be AA. I have a choice daily between facing an alcoholic death or a spiritual way of living. Easy choice, but I cannot possibly do it alone or with simple willpower. Alcoholism vs. my willpower = Alcoholism wins.
Music --rational thinking? Heck, don't know if I have any rational thinking left on my own will
.
Chy, I forgot how close your story is to mine...
Wokachick -- good folks, bad folks, doctors, homeless folks, housewives, etc. This disease does not discriminate. Hope you find your way to the recovery program that's right for you, AA works for many of us and probably worth a shot.
Ken
Funny, everyone's stories always sound like my own. Could be b/c we are all alcoholics.
Please, let's not make this a thread of differences of opinions. There is a way of recovery for everyone out there.
My choice happens to be AA. I have a choice daily between facing an alcoholic death or a spiritual way of living. Easy choice, but I cannot possibly do it alone or with simple willpower. Alcoholism vs. my willpower = Alcoholism wins.
Music --rational thinking? Heck, don't know if I have any rational thinking left on my own will
.Chy, I forgot how close your story is to mine...
Wokachick -- good folks, bad folks, doctors, homeless folks, housewives, etc. This disease does not discriminate. Hope you find your way to the recovery program that's right for you, AA works for many of us and probably worth a shot.
Ken
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