Cow

Hello Kittens!

Cow and O (and hopefully all you all) is teaming up! Unfortunately, we teaming up to talk about our big problems with recurrent relapse, and plus also depressions, addictions, anhedonia, and other sordid and sundry life-destroying issues.

O recently relapse after good run at sobriety. She tell me was out of “clear blue sky,” and yes, Cow understand clear blue sky, AKA “what in f&%$ just happen.” Has been many thousand times I SO CERTAIN IT FINALLY OVER. I committed. I clean out all paraphernalia, throw out wine glasses, openers, even scrub down every splotch of wine or coffee that happen to be splash on counter, cuz I want even that away from me! It feel real. I doing all right things. Then, couple day later, I just casual head out door for coffee, cuz I maybe in little bit of distress about feelings of zombie Borg nothingness.

O and I talk about how maybe we has become “accustom” to failing, to knowing we eventual gonna give in. That become our story, cuz we do it so many time. And is something comforting about knowing you gonna fail. And it make relapse inevitable, almost acceptable. Is maybe even exciting to mull over in one's mind. We must become less comfortable with relapse.

Does not mean desire for relief is not real. It is. And desire for relief extremely hard to combat. So O and I gonna try to dig deeper and unravel these psychologies and behaviors. It gonna be raw and real and we welcome inputs and sharing from all you chuckleheads. We hope to has visceral discussion about addiction and relapse and mental health and nothingness and self-delusion and unrelenting desire for relief and whole tragic lot of it.

We hopeful discussions of okra can be kept to strict minimums.

PS. O and I has always admit our drinking, even though is embarrassing for us and little tiny bit frustrating to some of you dear peoples . We gonna continue policy of honesty, but is our intent to stay consistently sober.

Obladi

Thanks, Cow. The honesty is difficult but necessary I think. Even though it is frustrating as all getout for you n me and others who are rooting for us.

When I'm not drinking, it seems so simple, "Just don't drink!" But I get lazy. Or bored. Or complacent. Or something.

I spoke with my therapist about this the other day and claimed that I must not be committed and he begged to differ. Which was a surprise to me, but when I seriously thought about commitment, I acknowledged failing to live up to the deal is probably part of the long-term journey. At least until one is successfully ingrained in it. I mean... with sobriety or relationships or any form of commitment. I never really considered this on an emotional level - like intellectually I get it, but I don't think I've ever given myself a break in real life about failing. And understanding that failure can certainly be a part of the journey. Though it seems it's sure better without.

I'm waffling about that last part even while I type. Need to think on this some more.

Anyhow, hello all! Welcome to the team.

entropy1964

Hi Cow and O

I love reading your threads cow....you has a way with words.

"O and I talk about how maybe we has become “accustom” to failing".....I like to think of this as learned helplessness. I know that was/is a huge part of my addiction and really my inability to cope. That ownership you talk of, with respect to everything, not just addiction, is kind of the foundation. The starting point for learned strength. Its hard because I have been helpless, the victim, unable to 'control' my thinking, unable to modulate my emotions, unable to contain my actions and reactions for so long that undoing all that is really totally foreign.

I think that ownership starts well, now. I try not to delve too deeply anymore. I have been over and under and around my bs so many times, for so many years. That sock drawer has been sorted. Now close the drawer and move on. The abuse, neglect, dysfunction, death, mental illness yadda yadda. I had to just move on.

I am going to visit my family on Friday. This is always tough. Its the scene of the crimes so to speak. I'll start thinking about 'stuff' that happened....the alcohol and drug abuse, the brother that molested me....and I have to scream STOP!!!! Its over. My brain just loves to dive into that stuff and just wallow. Over think. Pull out that comfy pair of socks that say VICTIM and walk around in them. But I can't do that. That starts me circling the drain and then out comes the BEAST....ready to swoop in.

And yeah, I know that comfy pair of socks called relapse. They have lots of miles on them. I have been in more hospitals, detoxes, rehabs than I can shake a stick at. So, yeah. I get it big time. Better the devil I know? I know the hell of addiction....but all that recovery stuff? That's an unknown. But ya know, each day is an unknown....so what's the diff really?

I don't know if I'm making sense. I'm anxious as hell right now. Haha. What else is knew. Looking forward to reading your thread!

Ladysadie

This applies to me as well. I'm in.

soberista

Im in but its late. I shall sleep on it and post tomorrow. Night y'all. Xx

Cow

Hello Gumdrops! Nice to see you!

Frick, I have the molestation and mental illnesses and stuff also. And still have to endure "family" time with abuser, so we have this in common. I not blame my drinking on this still, but when I younger I did. I sure that situation contribute to learned helplessness and lack of control. Like you not REALLY can change what happening to you. All that. I has unpack that Goddamn drawer and repack it lot of times with therapist and such. Is something of a release to speak to somebody who HAS to listen to you but I not think it help in truly profound way.

Maybe good step in recovery from learned helplessness is to just pick one thing and change it. No matter how hard or uncomfortable it get. For me, gotta be stop poisoning self. That be a good one for you too, O!

And O, I agree failure is part of the journey. But not when you playing Russian Roulette, yes?

Obladi

I'm in the molestation group as well. I still have zero comfort being in the vicinity of the man, so avoid family gatherings as much as possible. I believe this is part of why I so easily made the decision to move halfway across the country. I'm hoping that unpacking that drawer with my current therapist will allow me to fold the thing up neatly, put it on the top shelf and be ok with "It's part of my story" and sort of leave it at that.

Emotional abuse has been a constant in my adulthood; whether it's coming from some man or from myself. I think this kind of failure is maybe a form of control; it's just not the healthy route. It's good to acknowledge that there is reason in our coping mechanisms, no? Not as an excuse, but as an acknowledgement that they are filling a need.

Yes, Cow. Stopping the poisoning has to be the one thing. Again. Or still, depending on how you count it.

NYCDoglvr

How can anyone know that? What helped me was to not drink one day at a time. I only have power over what I do today. Most alcoholics also suffer from depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc. and many alcoholics have sexual abuse in their childhood. I do. A shrink told me that 95% of people who experienced trauma in childhood become addicts.

It's important to look at the program you're working and if it doesn't work, find another program. I couldn't substitute drinking with nothing.......went to AA because of the tremendous support from others recovering. Take the action of stop drinking then deal with the psychological stuff.

Cosima11

When I had my "slip" with shrooms a few months ago the disturbing part of it for me was how much it reminded me of drinking- I spent the majority of the time totally disoriented and practically incoherent. The ceiling turning into water was a nice touch but pretty unnecessary. Overall it was an emotional flashback to the helplessness and hopelessness I felt on a regular basis while drunk.

If the helplessness is learned it can be un-learned, if it's self-imposed it can be un-imposed. I'm sure I annoy people with the ridiculous songs I post (I annoy myself anyway) but here is yet another one.. because my own words are inadequate right now. You're welcome for the blast from the past with some angsty 90s music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4jZgrIg3TU

Obladi

Opportunity knocked this afternoon when my daughter said she wouldn't be home by the time I got here. The beast rubbed it's virtual hands with glee. I disregarded, but noted the anxiety following each episode - there were more than a few. Drive home was blessedly devoid of obsession but it kicked in again once I arrived. I checked numerous hiding spots and found (yet more!) empties, but nothing containing liquid. So that's done. I'm here and not drinking.

So good to see you all.

Cow

Jesus God, woman! Is day 1 of our new thread and you already looking for booze backwash in your secret cupboards!

I really appreciate level of you honesty, O. But what we gonna do bout this beast? We not can kill it, cuz beast is you. And me. I got through day okay with this technique. First thing I get up, go into kitchen and they is wine bottles and some raw sugar and also the Splenda just ready and waiting to be freed from they tiny packets and dump into delicious cup of coffee. So before I even has time to think I say to self: "These decisions have already been made." And I go about to scoop up the packets and bottles and put them in trash. And any time my brain start to tickle with any tricksy thought, I repeat loud in my head, "THESE DECISIONS HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE." It help me for today.

Okay, taking stock of where I starting here. Hoo boy. I looking like hellish old crone, I has not move much in, well, years, so I super weak. Like, I crouch down to do something today... and I could no get up, I has to help legs up with my arms, and now I even has sore muscle in legs... from one crouch! Stomach killing me, face a blotchy mess. Teeth is gray. And plus also, I a big fat f&%$! That just the physical, but we stop there for now.

I guess only way is up. Except for weight, hopeful only way is down in this regard.

Obladi

The deal was real talk.
I am not drinking now, regardless of what thoughts or anxieties or ridiculous temptations I might have had. I could have taken myself off to the liquor store without fear of detection, but I didn't. So there.

Seems that my beast is using the presence of my kid to try to convince me to drink. Which is completely backwards from what I want to do. Stupid beast. We won't be able to get rid of it, but I believe we can see it for what it is and disregard the nasty little thing. Standing up from a crouch is another story altogether. That's gonna take some physical effort.

Cosima, I think you're right that helplessness can be unlearned. The tricky part for me seems to be recognizing when I'm starting to give in to failure. I'm pretty good at talking the talk and convincing myself it's all good and then seemingly without provocation screwing it up.

Ladysadie

Cow. Start with walking to your porch/mail box/driveway. Every day build your walk to your curb/your corner/your neighbor. Every day. Next you walk further and further. It's a start. Build upon small successful approximations. You can DO THIS. Best of my love to you Ms Cow.

fini

hey you two,

raw and real sounds good.
from what i'm reading, i have some thoughts and will share, raw and real: i am concerned about the focus, which you say is on digging deeper and unraveling psychologies and behaviour -- seems to me that concentrating on how not to drink, what to do to support that, how to behave and what to do to further that would be more productive towards achieving your stated goal.
not saying there is no value in digging deep. but you have both done that for a very long time and it has not helped you towards ongoing sobriety.

the bolded sentence of directive to become less comfortable with relapse....sorry, but it sure sounds like a perspective that keeps inviting it in, only with some more discomfort.

it reminds me of myself when i used to take comfort from the fact that at least i felt badly about what i was doing. and how that was such a self-feeding loop.

soberlicious

I'm going to be raw and real right now. Less than 60 days ago I sat at my sister's bedside at hospice and watched her die from alcoholic cirrhosis. It is still surreal.

I implore you to spend your current "digging deep" efforts focused squarely on quitting for good. This must be priority number one. All these curly words just keep you going in circles, exploring, digging deep, uncovering deep hidden mysteries. Listen, for now, stop spinning around and focus on one thing...do not put substances in your body under any circumstance. Just do the one thing.

There is a finite number of chances we get. Don't squander them. Take this sh*t seriously with all you've got and just do the one thing.

Talkinandwalkin

Cow. Did you say that you still spend time with the abuser? You must be incredibly strong. How do you keep from snapping? Whenever I get put in situations like that the pressure builds up until I snap. It gets really bad fast.

soberista

Morning peeps.

Addiction, I feel, is like a cut to the soul. A cut made whilst shaping and carving that life by a poor sculpture. Some have small nicks that grow...others have huge gaping wounds right from the get go. To ease the pain and discomfort of these we self medicate - alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, food, exercise - whatever the high that keeps the nagging knowledge that there is an open wound of the soul. For me recovery is holding onto the sides of that wound from the inside of the soul for long enough that it starts to knit together. Belief and faith that, given time, the energy starts to knit together and make whole not hole (that old chestnut Cow). Now to hold onto that, particularly at the beginning, well its easy to get distracted and tired. So much focus it becomes all consuming. Thoughts running round like a lizard in a tin. Easy to want to just let it all go...let go. The focus is lost and the wound gapes again. Sometimes we dont even realise that it is still there and we are just ameliorating it with another self medication. For me I have avoided the pain with pot, alcohol, cigarettes but I still have my wound and I ameliorate it with food. I thank god in many ways I didnt get stuck into some heroin or crack cocaine. I dont think I would have turned my back on those in time. That self medication goes right back to the beginning when the cut was made. Neglect and lack of a mothers love. It is a big wound to know how to get those fingers of energy to hold tightly onto the sides and keep it pulled together long enough for self love to take charge. And you see if you let go it just opens back up again, and for some, one day its infected, unable to heal and there is nothing that can be done. You have to keep holding on to recovery. For me therapy has helped but the one thing that has been the line that I have held onto is creativity (painting drawing music pottery). It has allowed me to just knock the tin over and let the lizard run free - for a while - perhaps long enough to get some traction.

KarltheheretiK

I lived in Atlanta for most of the 90's and I have to say... the only thing as annoying as country music is okra. In fact, okra IS the country music of the vegetable kingdom... I'm convinced of it. I don't know how many times I told a Southerner I hated okra and they come back with, "Oh, well you've never had okra the way I make it." So I tried okra fried, stewed, baked, deep-fried, etc...

I can only come to two conclusions... okra sucks and it tastes like spiked green snot!

That is all...

Tynesider22

If defeating alcoholism was just as simple as "stopping drinking", then all those councillors, clinics etc would be out of a job. There's a reason those folk exist, it's not that easy.

I suffer from depression as well, which is one of the reasons I turned to drink in the first place. How many times I have both "well, just stop drinking" and "just get over it. Cheer up". I'm guessing these people would happily go onto a hospital ward and tell the dying child "well, just don't have cancer".

Lonewolf22

Well, that is one aspect of recovery I'm getting better at and that is not getting too hard on myself for 'relapsing'. That is not to say I don't take it seriously, it still has such an effect on me that I feel a little traumatic for over a week.
The 'what have I done and who seen me, what do they know that I don't! Who I'm walking past who now thinks I'm despicable? Or thinks I'm a complete joke!' plays on your mind for weeks, if not months or years depending on what you can remember or have found out.

Like, I've just moved into a lovely area, I really didn't want to drink here because I wanted a fresh start. I wanted to not associate this place with times of drink and despair and paranoia. And I ended up boozing for 3 days. Now wondering whether the neighbours seen me (or heard) even though I'm pretty sure I didn't cause any disturbance when I came back home (but how many times have I convinced myself that I was alright the night before?)

The difficulty I find with keeping sober is the slowness of change that occurs over time. My mind easily falls into a habit of thinking nothing is going to change and even if it does, I'm still not going to be happy. It is that lack of vision to see a better place for me in the future. So when I don't drink I'll feel 'well I'm sober but this so is so boring and uneventful' and when I'm hungover, I'll think '**** this is why I shouldn't have drank, how could I forget, or ignore, how horrible this feels'.

So when I'm try to stop it completely and the drinking intervals are far wider length of time, the inconsistency of my moods and sense of direction or optimism or hope causes me to be pretty vulnerable a lot of the time.