Can you help me see/believe why this is wrong?
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
I think I've traveled a little over 2.3 billion miles around the sun since my last drink, and I still have thoughts. Usually crop up at the extremes , things going either particularly bad or good.
I'm fairly certain they may always creep up and percolate to near the fore, but the one thought I know to be true is that "I don't drink" any other alcohol related thought that is not in line with that Big One , gets ignored and sometimes laughed at.
I'm fairly certain they may always creep up and percolate to near the fore, but the one thought I know to be true is that "I don't drink" any other alcohol related thought that is not in line with that Big One , gets ignored and sometimes laughed at.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
And BAM just like that 37 days!
I lean on SR a lot, too. This is my support system. It's convenient for me, but if for any reason I didn't have it I'd go to meetings.
Also be sure to include in your AV posts (I had lots of them too) that you have no plans to drink, because then your responses are a little less intense...
I lean on SR a lot, too. This is my support system. It's convenient for me, but if for any reason I didn't have it I'd go to meetings.
Also be sure to include in your AV posts (I had lots of them too) that you have no plans to drink, because then your responses are a little less intense...
Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 57
The reason why you can't is two quickly became 4
If the naltrexone doesn't let you have as much of a buzz, then taking it and still drinking is a very bad idea, because for a true alcoholic that's why you drink...for more then just a light buzz. At least I do. I don't want to feel any negative emotions so I drink more and more. Maybe what you read works for someone who is just entering the problem drinking phase but not truly brain addicted yet. Please don't waste 36 days sobriety...you'll feel even more depressed and may not make it home from driving out to the store to get more when your 2 airline drinks aren't enough. Plus as someone whose back to zero days sobriety I need to hear you win this battle so I can win 24 hours!
Originally Posted by Sohard 
Ah shoot. Shoot shoot shoot.
I am having some NOT good thoughts. Maybe you can restore my sanity. This is what I'm thinking (but no worries, no poor choices have been made). Okay, here me out.
Yes, I have a brain which gets addicted to drinking, as it did smoking. I'm sure I'd get addicted to any drug out there, so thank god I've never tried anything else.
Yes, I'm on 40mg prozac for anxiety (it runs in my family, it's clearly a chemical thing), and you are not supposed to drink on prozac.
Yes, I am SUPER excited about my 36 days sober and how much better my life has become in just this short amount of time.
HOWEVER, some of you might remember I tried my Naltrexone experiment. What was so amazing about that drug is that it makes it so you do not have the same reaction to alcohol as you did before you took the medication. I drank MUCH slower and MUCH less for the couple of days I tried it. It was bizarre. I FELT NORMAL.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, I don't know), my experiment to be a moderate drinker on Naltrexone came to a crashing halt (no pun intended) when I blacked out and drove. Clearly, Naltrexone, wine, and Prozac do not mix well (surprise, surprise, right??).
So, you'd think I'd be clear on where I should stand now: No. More. Drinking.
But, you'd be wrong - I'm all of a sudden not clear on it, although I KNOW I should be. In the past couple of days I have been considering the following:
Why don't I continue to wrack up more sober days but, once I have, try moderation again? I KNOW everyone says you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber, and I agree that WAS the case, but, according to the Sinclair Method, now YOU CAN. And, having tried Naltrexone, I can speak from experience and understand why it would eventually train you to drink less because you don't crave it as you're drinking it - you become normal (it feels like drinking water...you somewhat forget it's there). MY problem was that I had 4 drinks the night I blacked out. I should have told myself I could only have 2, due to the prozac, and stopped it at that (which would have been possible, like the 2 previous nights, because the cravings were down). If that blackout night I had instead just bought, say, 2 airplane bottles of wine for home, I could have had those and only those, had I been on the Naltrexone. Basically, I could make my brain used to just having that amount. Pharmaceutical Extinction. So, why can't I start drinking moderately, on Naltrexone, just like every few weeks having a glass or 2 (that's it) of wine with a friend, having taken a Naltrexone beforehand? I don't want to get back into nightly drinking solo, but why can't I have that, now that I've broken that habit?
I KNOW this is a bad idea. I mean, I think I know. But there is a very real part of me that is thinking "no, I'm right on this, I watched the video about it and heard a bunch of success stories....I tried the medication myself and saw how wonderful it was....I just didn't use it correctly because I had 4 drinks, which isn't okay bc of the prozac. Stick to 2, and it IS possible to turn a pickle into a cucumber. I know, because I had just 2 glasses of wine at home both nights prior to that horrific blackout, and it was like a miracle. Just stick to 2 glasses, which you can with Naltrexone, and you can drink every once in a while!"
Okay, I am 100% sure no one is going to advise moderation here, nor are you allowed to. I don't think - rationally - the above is a good idea. However, the addicted part of me is letting that thought stay in the back of my brain. I realized there's a reason I never threw the Naltrexone away. I'm just wondering if anyone can argue my points away for me so I can see where my thinking is wrong. I know it is, but I truly don't see why. Even writing this, I was thinking...'you know, you could try this tonight! Have a naltrexone and 2 glasses of wine in an hour...prove to everyone and yourself that it will now be fine because you are on prozac and naltrexone, and only having 2 glasses of wine and will be able to stop bc of the naltrexone. You're problem is solved!!!!'.
And, I know that is horrible thinking. I just don't know WHY.
I am having some NOT good thoughts. Maybe you can restore my sanity. This is what I'm thinking (but no worries, no poor choices have been made). Okay, here me out.
Yes, I have a brain which gets addicted to drinking, as it did smoking. I'm sure I'd get addicted to any drug out there, so thank god I've never tried anything else.
Yes, I'm on 40mg prozac for anxiety (it runs in my family, it's clearly a chemical thing), and you are not supposed to drink on prozac.
Yes, I am SUPER excited about my 36 days sober and how much better my life has become in just this short amount of time.
HOWEVER, some of you might remember I tried my Naltrexone experiment. What was so amazing about that drug is that it makes it so you do not have the same reaction to alcohol as you did before you took the medication. I drank MUCH slower and MUCH less for the couple of days I tried it. It was bizarre. I FELT NORMAL.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, I don't know), my experiment to be a moderate drinker on Naltrexone came to a crashing halt (no pun intended) when I blacked out and drove. Clearly, Naltrexone, wine, and Prozac do not mix well (surprise, surprise, right??).
So, you'd think I'd be clear on where I should stand now: No. More. Drinking.
But, you'd be wrong - I'm all of a sudden not clear on it, although I KNOW I should be. In the past couple of days I have been considering the following:
Why don't I continue to wrack up more sober days but, once I have, try moderation again? I KNOW everyone says you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber, and I agree that WAS the case, but, according to the Sinclair Method, now YOU CAN. And, having tried Naltrexone, I can speak from experience and understand why it would eventually train you to drink less because you don't crave it as you're drinking it - you become normal (it feels like drinking water...you somewhat forget it's there). MY problem was that I had 4 drinks the night I blacked out. I should have told myself I could only have 2, due to the prozac, and stopped it at that (which would have been possible, like the 2 previous nights, because the cravings were down). If that blackout night I had instead just bought, say, 2 airplane bottles of wine for home, I could have had those and only those, had I been on the Naltrexone. Basically, I could make my brain used to just having that amount. Pharmaceutical Extinction. So, why can't I start drinking moderately, on Naltrexone, just like every few weeks having a glass or 2 (that's it) of wine with a friend, having taken a Naltrexone beforehand? I don't want to get back into nightly drinking solo, but why can't I have that, now that I've broken that habit?
I KNOW this is a bad idea. I mean, I think I know. But there is a very real part of me that is thinking "no, I'm right on this, I watched the video about it and heard a bunch of success stories....I tried the medication myself and saw how wonderful it was....I just didn't use it correctly because I had 4 drinks, which isn't okay bc of the prozac. Stick to 2, and it IS possible to turn a pickle into a cucumber. I know, because I had just 2 glasses of wine at home both nights prior to that horrific blackout, and it was like a miracle. Just stick to 2 glasses, which you can with Naltrexone, and you can drink every once in a while!"
Okay, I am 100% sure no one is going to advise moderation here, nor are you allowed to. I don't think - rationally - the above is a good idea. However, the addicted part of me is letting that thought stay in the back of my brain. I realized there's a reason I never threw the Naltrexone away. I'm just wondering if anyone can argue my points away for me so I can see where my thinking is wrong. I know it is, but I truly don't see why. Even writing this, I was thinking...'you know, you could try this tonight! Have a naltrexone and 2 glasses of wine in an hour...prove to everyone and yourself that it will now be fine because you are on prozac and naltrexone, and only having 2 glasses of wine and will be able to stop bc of the naltrexone. You're problem is solved!!!!'.
And, I know that is horrible thinking. I just don't know WHY.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by Hopedeferred
If the naltrexone doesn't let you have as much of a buzz, then taking it and still drinking is a very bad idea, because for a true alcoholic that's why you drink...for more then just a light buzz. At least I do. I don't want to feel any negative emotions so I drink more and more. Maybe what you read works for someone who is just entering the problem drinking phase but not truly brain addicted yet. Please don't waste 36 days sobriety...you'll feel even more depressed and may not make it home from driving out to the store to get more when your 2 airline drinks aren't enough. Plus as someone whose back to zero days sobriety I need to hear you win this battle so I can win 24 hours!
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
The ONLY value I can see it would have for an alcoholic is you would be able to participate in social drinking on rare occasions (holidays, professional networking, etc.) without the awkwardness and discomfort of being the only person without a drink in hand. But that's where you have to make a choice.. are those rare moments really worth risking your sanity?
I've never once had someone insist to taste my drink cos they suspect it might be non alcoholic
D
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by Sohard
Thanks so much for your support! No drinking for me.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Perhaps it helps to go to the basics.
We have a disease/disorder called alcoholism.
Part of the psychology of this disease is denial and rationalization. I discover I
discover I can no longer believe my own thinking. My best thinking got me
drunk.
I need help, it is too much for me to do alone. What help can I get?
It is self-sabotaging to say or think "I will never drink again." How can I know
what I will do in the future?
I don't drink TODAY. That's all, it's ONLY TODAY.
We have a disease/disorder called alcoholism.
Part of the psychology of this disease is denial and rationalization. I discover I
discover I can no longer believe my own thinking. My best thinking got me
drunk.
I need help, it is too much for me to do alone. What help can I get?
It is self-sabotaging to say or think "I will never drink again." How can I know
what I will do in the future?
I don't drink TODAY. That's all, it's ONLY TODAY.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 13
I rarely ever post but I have to respond because I loved this post. The reason I love it is that it shows us alcoholics the exact nature of our thinking. Especially us in early recovery. I feel the same way once I get a week or so behind me. How can I drink? What if I drink a little bit with water in between each drink? What if I wait till 5 each night? What if I only drink beer? I have tried every way and none of it works but I feel the same way as you. It's hard to say goodbye to something you've had in your life for so long but (for me at least) it is either give drinking up or say goodbye to everything and one I love. FYI I'm only a few days sober so I'm definitely not the authority on sobriety but I did want you to know I know exactly how you feel.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by MeMeMe7711
I rarely ever post but I have to respond because I loved this post. The reason I love it is that it shows us alcoholics the exact nature of our thinking. Especially us in early recovery. I feel the same way once I get a week or so behind me. How can I drink? What if I drink a little bit with water in between each drink? What if I wait till 5 each night? What if I only drink beer? I have tried every way and none of it works but I feel the same way as you. It's hard to say goodbye to something you've had in your life for so long but (for me at least) it is either give drinking up or say goodbye to everything and one I love. FYI I'm only a few days sober so I'm definitely not the authority on sobriety but I did want you to know I know exactly how you feel.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: York County, PA
Posts: 302
Good for you for deciding not to see how closely you can approach the cliff again.
I didn't begin drinking like an alcoholic, but once I did, I did and never could drink like a normal person ever again. No matter how many times I tried. I'd always wake up the next morning, look at the bottle, wondering to myself, "how the hell did I drink THAT MUCH. AGAIN."
I tried the Naltrexone injection once, based on the advice of an addition doctor. Never took it again. It took away my ability to feel good about anything at all.
Once you admit to yourself you cannot control your drinking at all, and can never safely drink again this will get easier for you.
But we can't stop you. If you want to go drink, go drink. But you have already been down that road before, you know where that road leads.
I didn't begin drinking like an alcoholic, but once I did, I did and never could drink like a normal person ever again. No matter how many times I tried. I'd always wake up the next morning, look at the bottle, wondering to myself, "how the hell did I drink THAT MUCH. AGAIN."
I tried the Naltrexone injection once, based on the advice of an addition doctor. Never took it again. It took away my ability to feel good about anything at all.
Once you admit to yourself you cannot control your drinking at all, and can never safely drink again this will get easier for you.
But we can't stop you. If you want to go drink, go drink. But you have already been down that road before, you know where that road leads.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 983
Hmm Never heard of this drug before I don't understand what it does? I think this drug sounds risky to me in early soberity, so does it basically mean you can drink without feeling the need to binge or is it meant to prevent you from wanting to drink?
My curiosity is now getting the better of me.
My curiosity is now getting the better of me.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Sinclair,
One problem is that the Sinclair method is misused most places. Idea was never to have an injection or to take it at all except when you are going to drink.
The idea is to take the fun out of drinking not the fun out of life.
BUT, that said, abstinence is better IF you can do it. And we can do it cause we be badass.
But if the choice is full on alcohol abuse or a proper Sinclair method, my vote is the latter. And eventually many people stop drinking all together because it isn't fun (or stop using the naltrexone)
I am the daughter of a main depressive who came off his drugs every few years because life got boring. Same potential with the Sinclair method, as Dr Sinclair acknowledged. But I suppose that is like any relapse.
But I do think that stopping the naltrexone is a higher risk than relapsing if you have well and truly stopped on your own. Not sure why I think that, but I do. For me, I won't risk it!!.
One problem is that the Sinclair method is misused most places. Idea was never to have an injection or to take it at all except when you are going to drink.
The idea is to take the fun out of drinking not the fun out of life.
BUT, that said, abstinence is better IF you can do it. And we can do it cause we be badass.
But if the choice is full on alcohol abuse or a proper Sinclair method, my vote is the latter. And eventually many people stop drinking all together because it isn't fun (or stop using the naltrexone)
I am the daughter of a main depressive who came off his drugs every few years because life got boring. Same potential with the Sinclair method, as Dr Sinclair acknowledged. But I suppose that is like any relapse.
But I do think that stopping the naltrexone is a higher risk than relapsing if you have well and truly stopped on your own. Not sure why I think that, but I do. For me, I won't risk it!!.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: York County, PA
Posts: 302
Originally Posted by Sinclair28
Naltrexone is the new school. All else old school and I will predict will one day soon make all the rest(AA.etc) obsolete.
1. - Must see the behavioral counselor/psychologist regularly (about every 2 weeks) and keep all appointments
2. - Either attend their in-house SMART recovery group therapy or attend AA/NA no less than once a week.
He told me that this drug was just a tool to aid in recovery. This is still more than simply a biological/chemical problem. There is something underlying the disease of addiction that is also psychological (and some also believe spiritual) that must be addressed for us to live healthy, balanced lives. Even - or especially - without the alcohol.
Take away my alcohol, or give me a drug that blocks it's effects on my mind without providing me some healthy coping tools to replace it with . . . . I think I'd go try to kill myself again. Seriously.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by Sinclair28
As someone presently using naltrexone to great success, I only drink one beer now and am satisfied and have stopped binge drinking for over 3months. Nothing else helped me. It all failed me. But naltrexone one pill an hour before drinking has broken up the addiction and taken the cravings away. It has de-addicted my mind. Naltrexone is the new school. All else old school and I will predict will one day soon make all the rest(AA.etc) obsolete.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by Sinclair28
As someone presently using naltrexone to great success, I only drink one beer now and am satisfied and have stopped binge drinking for over 3months. Nothing else helped me. It all failed me. But naltrexone one pill an hour before drinking has broken up the addiction and taken the cravings away. It has de-addicted my mind. Naltrexone is the new school. All else old school and I will predict will one day soon make all the rest(AA.etc) obsolete.
I’m glad you’ve found a solution and I really hope it works for you!
Having said that, you are one person that has done this now for 3 months, so from a science angle that’s not even a data blip. Cite me a double blind study over 10 years, with 100 people and the same amount of people in a control group, then we’d be talking.
You need to be aware that we are not here to shoot the breeze, you are getting people’s hopes up and, what’s worse, you can lead them into harm’s way. Please be aware of your responsibility, this is no laughing matter.
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
Originally Posted by Dee74
The Sinclair Method is off topic here folks.
One of the reasons for that is I've never seen anyone drinking again on naltrexone have that work out long term.
Naltrexone in an abstinence based programme is a different story.
Dee
Moderator
SR
One of the reasons for that is I've never seen anyone drinking again on naltrexone have that work out long term.
Naltrexone in an abstinence based programme is a different story.
Dee
Moderator
SR
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
Please go back to the original topic.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 256
When I started using opiates again I said to myself: when it starts interfering with the stuff that's important to me like my fitness and nutrition I'll get it under control. Few months later and I was trying to sell my possessions to make money for my habit. How well did my plan of moderation and control work?
Of course after a dry spell you will tell yourself you'll be fine and moderate, but if you have been addicted to something before the chances of you igniting that addiction is very high. And even if you do stay under control, chances are you won't be happy. You can have your two glasses of wine but in the back of your mind you will always be saying to yourself, I could have one more and it would make me feel great. One more won't hurt. You know how many one more's most of us here have had which then turns into a binge and either passing out or doing something stupid? Just think about that.
Not saying recovering users can't moderate, but you have to be extremely careful and on guard.
Of course after a dry spell you will tell yourself you'll be fine and moderate, but if you have been addicted to something before the chances of you igniting that addiction is very high. And even if you do stay under control, chances are you won't be happy. You can have your two glasses of wine but in the back of your mind you will always be saying to yourself, I could have one more and it would make me feel great. One more won't hurt. You know how many one more's most of us here have had which then turns into a binge and either passing out or doing something stupid? Just think about that.
Not saying recovering users can't moderate, but you have to be extremely careful and on guard.
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