Can you help me see/believe why this is wrong?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Can you help me see/believe why this is wrong?
Ah shoot. Shoot shoot shoot.
I am having some NOT good thoughts. Maybe you can restore my sanity. This is what I'm thinking (but no worries, no poor choices have been made). Okay, here me out.
Yes, I have a brain which gets addicted to drinking, as it did smoking. I'm sure I'd get addicted to any drug out there, so thank god I've never tried anything else.
Yes, I'm on 40mg prozac for anxiety (it runs in my family, it's clearly a chemical thing), and you are not supposed to drink on prozac.
Yes, I am SUPER excited about my 36 days sober and how much better my life has become in just this short amount of time.
HOWEVER, some of you might remember I tried my Naltrexone experiment. What was so amazing about that drug is that it makes it so you do not have the same reaction to alcohol as you did before you took the medication. I drank MUCH slower and MUCH less for the couple of days I tried it. It was bizarre. I FELT NORMAL.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, I don't know), my experiment to be a moderate drinker on Naltrexone came to a crashing halt (no pun intended) when I blacked out and drove. Clearly, Naltrexone, wine, and Prozac do not mix well (surprise, surprise, right??).
So, you'd think I'd be clear on where I should stand now: No. More. Drinking.
But, you'd be wrong - I'm all of a sudden not clear on it, although I KNOW I should be. In the past couple of days I have been considering the following:
Why don't I continue to wrack up more sober days but, once I have, try moderation again? I KNOW everyone says you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber, and I agree that WAS the case, but, according to the Sinclair Method, now YOU CAN. And, having tried Naltrexone, I can speak from experience and understand why it would eventually train you to drink less because you don't crave it as you're drinking it - you become normal (it feels like drinking water...you somewhat forget it's there). MY problem was that I had 4 drinks the night I blacked out. I should have told myself I could only have 2, due to the prozac, and stopped it at that (which would have been possible, like the 2 previous nights, because the cravings were down). If that blackout night I had instead just bought, say, 2 airplane bottles of wine for home, I could have had those and only those, had I been on the Naltrexone. Basically, I could make my brain used to just having that amount. Pharmaceutical Extinction. So, why can't I start drinking moderately, on Naltrexone, just like every few weeks having a glass or 2 (that's it) of wine with a friend, having taken a Naltrexone beforehand? I don't want to get back into nightly drinking solo, but why can't I have that, now that I've broken that habit?
I KNOW this is a bad idea. I mean, I think I know. But there is a very real part of me that is thinking "no, I'm right on this, I watched the video about it and heard a bunch of success stories....I tried the medication myself and saw how wonderful it was....I just didn't use it correctly because I had 4 drinks, which isn't okay bc of the prozac. Stick to 2, and it IS possible to turn a pickle into a cucumber. I know, because I had just 2 glasses of wine at home both nights prior to that horrific blackout, and it was like a miracle. Just stick to 2 glasses, which you can with Naltrexone, and you can drink every once in a while!"
Okay, I am 100% sure no one is going to advise moderation here, nor are you allowed to. I don't think - rationally - the above is a good idea. However, the addicted part of me is letting that thought stay in the back of my brain. I realized there's a reason I never threw the Naltrexone away. I'm just wondering if anyone can argue my points away for me so I can see where my thinking is wrong. I know it is, but I truly don't see why. Even writing this, I was thinking...'you know, you could try this tonight! Have a naltrexone and 2 glasses of wine in an hour...prove to everyone and yourself that it will now be fine because you are on prozac and naltrexone, and only having 2 glasses of wine and will be able to stop bc of the naltrexone. You're problem is solved!!!!'.
And, I know that is horrible thinking. I just don't know WHY.
I am having some NOT good thoughts. Maybe you can restore my sanity. This is what I'm thinking (but no worries, no poor choices have been made). Okay, here me out.
Yes, I have a brain which gets addicted to drinking, as it did smoking. I'm sure I'd get addicted to any drug out there, so thank god I've never tried anything else.
Yes, I'm on 40mg prozac for anxiety (it runs in my family, it's clearly a chemical thing), and you are not supposed to drink on prozac.
Yes, I am SUPER excited about my 36 days sober and how much better my life has become in just this short amount of time.
HOWEVER, some of you might remember I tried my Naltrexone experiment. What was so amazing about that drug is that it makes it so you do not have the same reaction to alcohol as you did before you took the medication. I drank MUCH slower and MUCH less for the couple of days I tried it. It was bizarre. I FELT NORMAL.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, I don't know), my experiment to be a moderate drinker on Naltrexone came to a crashing halt (no pun intended) when I blacked out and drove. Clearly, Naltrexone, wine, and Prozac do not mix well (surprise, surprise, right??).
So, you'd think I'd be clear on where I should stand now: No. More. Drinking.
But, you'd be wrong - I'm all of a sudden not clear on it, although I KNOW I should be. In the past couple of days I have been considering the following:
Why don't I continue to wrack up more sober days but, once I have, try moderation again? I KNOW everyone says you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber, and I agree that WAS the case, but, according to the Sinclair Method, now YOU CAN. And, having tried Naltrexone, I can speak from experience and understand why it would eventually train you to drink less because you don't crave it as you're drinking it - you become normal (it feels like drinking water...you somewhat forget it's there). MY problem was that I had 4 drinks the night I blacked out. I should have told myself I could only have 2, due to the prozac, and stopped it at that (which would have been possible, like the 2 previous nights, because the cravings were down). If that blackout night I had instead just bought, say, 2 airplane bottles of wine for home, I could have had those and only those, had I been on the Naltrexone. Basically, I could make my brain used to just having that amount. Pharmaceutical Extinction. So, why can't I start drinking moderately, on Naltrexone, just like every few weeks having a glass or 2 (that's it) of wine with a friend, having taken a Naltrexone beforehand? I don't want to get back into nightly drinking solo, but why can't I have that, now that I've broken that habit?
I KNOW this is a bad idea. I mean, I think I know. But there is a very real part of me that is thinking "no, I'm right on this, I watched the video about it and heard a bunch of success stories....I tried the medication myself and saw how wonderful it was....I just didn't use it correctly because I had 4 drinks, which isn't okay bc of the prozac. Stick to 2, and it IS possible to turn a pickle into a cucumber. I know, because I had just 2 glasses of wine at home both nights prior to that horrific blackout, and it was like a miracle. Just stick to 2 glasses, which you can with Naltrexone, and you can drink every once in a while!"
Okay, I am 100% sure no one is going to advise moderation here, nor are you allowed to. I don't think - rationally - the above is a good idea. However, the addicted part of me is letting that thought stay in the back of my brain. I realized there's a reason I never threw the Naltrexone away. I'm just wondering if anyone can argue my points away for me so I can see where my thinking is wrong. I know it is, but I truly don't see why. Even writing this, I was thinking...'you know, you could try this tonight! Have a naltrexone and 2 glasses of wine in an hour...prove to everyone and yourself that it will now be fine because you are on prozac and naltrexone, and only having 2 glasses of wine and will be able to stop bc of the naltrexone. You're problem is solved!!!!'.
And, I know that is horrible thinking. I just don't know WHY.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
You can quit drinking when you want to, everyone can. But you only quit once.
If you want to quit , you have to separate from the AV (the sole author of the above). The AV is any thought of future drinks or doubt in your ability to remain abstinent. The Beast is the desire for more drinks and the AV is It voice, spoken in your own words, masquerading as your own thoughts.
“Normal” drinkers don’t have just two glasses, they have some wine, barely any if any thought about it.
You can feel how your Beast is all about more drinks , yeah? IT doesn’t think about amounts either , just more .
If you want to quit , you have to separate from the AV (the sole author of the above). The AV is any thought of future drinks or doubt in your ability to remain abstinent. The Beast is the desire for more drinks and the AV is It voice, spoken in your own words, masquerading as your own thoughts.
“Normal” drinkers don’t have just two glasses, they have some wine, barely any if any thought about it.
You can feel how your Beast is all about more drinks , yeah? IT doesn’t think about amounts either , just more .
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,065
You already proved it is false. You were on the meds, drank, blacked out and drove. You could have killed someone or yourself.
Sure you could potentially moderate, but you already proved it is a slippery slope.
You have to take drinking off the table. I once asked s doctor for a way to make my husband quit, she said, he will just drink on it anyways. Meaning it helps in some cases but it is not a cure all.
It is not going to help you moderate.
Sure you could potentially moderate, but you already proved it is a slippery slope.
You have to take drinking off the table. I once asked s doctor for a way to make my husband quit, she said, he will just drink on it anyways. Meaning it helps in some cases but it is not a cure all.
It is not going to help you moderate.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
So, why can't I start drinking moderately, on Naltrexone, just like every few weeks having a glass or 2 (that's it) of wine with a friend, having taken a Naltrexone beforehand? I don't want to get back into nightly drinking solo, but why can't I have that, now that I've broken that habit?
because you lost that luxury- you crossed the line into full blown alcoholism. alcoholics that have crossed the line into full blown alcoholism no longer have the ability to moderate or control.
your past posts about your drinking doest read like the drinking was a habit.
chewing my nails is a habit. swearing is a habit.eating candy is a habit. singing while i work is a habit.
because you lost that luxury- you crossed the line into full blown alcoholism. alcoholics that have crossed the line into full blown alcoholism no longer have the ability to moderate or control.
your past posts about your drinking doest read like the drinking was a habit.
chewing my nails is a habit. swearing is a habit.eating candy is a habit. singing while i work is a habit.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,283
Originally Posted by tomsteve 
[I] alcoholics that have crossed the line into full blown alcoholism no longer have the ability to moderate or control.
.
.
Again, I know proponents of moderation aren't allowed here. And I don't like these thoughts I'm having, so I'm not asking anyone here to give me the go-ahead. I'm just trying to figure out why I can't just have 2 glasses of wine on naltrexone, now that I know the dangers of more. Before the black out, I had proved I could, I just didn't know 4 glasses would result in such a scenario.
I don't even know. Now even I'm getting confused. I just know these thoughts aren't good and so I'm trying to work them out in my head in a way that puts me at peace.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
If I had to jump through a bunch of hoops and spend hours rationalizing and justifying two glasses of wine, why would I do that?
I don't want two glasses of wine. Two glasses of wine will never be the way I drink. I know that because I tried that over and over and over and over and over again. I don't want two glasses of wine because I want to have that euphoric buzz and I want to keep it going.
I don't want to take a pill that will take away the buzz. Then I may as well drink apple juice.
I drank for the warm quiet comfortable soft and pillowy buzz. Full stop. Did you?
The buzz was never long enough after a couple. I wanted to keep it going. That required another drink or four.
So much easier to stop completely than to play a losing hand.
I don't want two glasses of wine. Two glasses of wine will never be the way I drink. I know that because I tried that over and over and over and over and over again. I don't want two glasses of wine because I want to have that euphoric buzz and I want to keep it going.
I don't want to take a pill that will take away the buzz. Then I may as well drink apple juice.
I drank for the warm quiet comfortable soft and pillowy buzz. Full stop. Did you?
The buzz was never long enough after a couple. I wanted to keep it going. That required another drink or four.
So much easier to stop completely than to play a losing hand.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
I don't even know. Now even I'm getting confused
is it worth the war in your head? isnt it tiring?
wouldnt it just be easier to say,"screw that thought. theres a jillion other non alcoholic drinks i can have."
notice the title of your thread:
Can you help me see/believe why this is wrong?
were trying to get ya to see and believe it and youre trying to rationalize why WE are wrong?
is it worth the war in your head? isnt it tiring?
wouldnt it just be easier to say,"screw that thought. theres a jillion other non alcoholic drinks i can have."
notice the title of your thread:
Can you help me see/believe why this is wrong?
were trying to get ya to see and believe it and youre trying to rationalize why WE are wrong?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 201
I personally feel the "magical" reputation of Naltrexone is irresponsible and even dangerous. I just saw a Ted talk from a woman who claims she took it and is no longer an alcoholic. IMO, that is not how this works. To pretend that addiction is a purely chemical problem is not accurate. At least not for me. Figuring out why I feel I NEED to drink is helping me far more than trying to drink "moderately". I have never drank to be social. I drank to get drunk. That will always be true for me if I pick up a drink. Maybe it is the same for you as well?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 201
But thank you for posting this question. My first thought upon reading it was "I wonder if I can take Naltrexone and still get drunk?"
Why is that my first thought? It will give me something to think about tonight for sure. I hope you are able to find some clarity about what to do. Not drinking is what I know I need to do.
Why is that my first thought? It will give me something to think about tonight for sure. I hope you are able to find some clarity about what to do. Not drinking is what I know I need to do.
2/2016
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 582
I took Naltrexone. I drank, but did not get drunk. I drank until I threw up. I drank because I drink and all of those drinks still poisoned my body, still were bad for me even though I did not get drunk. Still got hungover, still felt bad. Naltrexone did not work for me.
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
I don't know how anyone here can talk you out of drinking when you are obviously letting your AV talk you into it.
I hope you choose to remain sober. But when you haven't taken drinking completely off the table (i.e., no Big Plan), when you still want to drink, drinking becomes the inevitable conclusion.
I hope you choose to remain sober. But when you haven't taken drinking completely off the table (i.e., no Big Plan), when you still want to drink, drinking becomes the inevitable conclusion.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Hi so hard. I'm only going to say one thing: you're entertaining your AV with a little party instead of kicking it immediately out the door, shutting it, and locking it. The naltrexone method was not only an utter failure for you but a dangerous one, as horsie pointed out.
Kick the the av out when it shows up. And don't let it back in. Its working on you. Do you feel how creepy that is? Its working on you and its pretty sure its finding those cracks in your resolve, so that it can get you to drink until you die or kill someone else.
Ok, maybe two or three things....
Kick the the av out when it shows up. And don't let it back in. Its working on you. Do you feel how creepy that is? Its working on you and its pretty sure its finding those cracks in your resolve, so that it can get you to drink until you die or kill someone else.
Ok, maybe two or three things....
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,981
Every alcoholics dream is to be able to hit the rewind button, or to somehow magically turn into moderate drinkers, but that simply is not possible.
Naltrexone only blocks the "high" from drinking, but still all the other effects will happen, as well as mixing it with other prescription meds will lead to disaster (which you found out first hand)
What you need to do is finally surrender to the fact that you are an alcohol, and always will be. Alcohol can never be in your life responsibly, even as much as you wish it could.
Naltrexone only blocks the "high" from drinking, but still all the other effects will happen, as well as mixing it with other prescription meds will lead to disaster (which you found out first hand)
What you need to do is finally surrender to the fact that you are an alcohol, and always will be. Alcohol can never be in your life responsibly, even as much as you wish it could.
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
The Sinclair method may work for moderate drinking. Or it may not.
Is it worth chancing?
Why do you even WANT to drink moderately? The fact that you're trying so hard indicates to me that you're addicted to alcohol and are desperately looking for some kind of loophole. If you weren't an addict, you could just walk away and not roll the dice.
Is it worth chancing?
Why do you even WANT to drink moderately? The fact that you're trying so hard indicates to me that you're addicted to alcohol and are desperately looking for some kind of loophole. If you weren't an addict, you could just walk away and not roll the dice.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 446
Like others have already said above, this is your AV hard at work. When you are having these thoughts, realize that they are not you - it is your addiction trying to come in through the back door. Acknowledge them and then just let them go.
Or try this exercise: Tomorrow morning, when you are well rested, reread your opening post and reflect on the fact that these are the musings of an obsessed alcoholic, trying to rationalize herself into drinking again. Smile knowingly and move on with your life - sober day 37 beckons! You can do this!
Or try this exercise: Tomorrow morning, when you are well rested, reread your opening post and reflect on the fact that these are the musings of an obsessed alcoholic, trying to rationalize herself into drinking again. Smile knowingly and move on with your life - sober day 37 beckons! You can do this!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
So hard, if you want to quit drinking, you might practice shutting down that av at the very first faint sign of it. Once it's clear, sometimes by that time it is shouting at you, and other times you are already tipping your glass. It has to be shut down, and shut down early.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
my experience of finally quitting and staying quit was that i had to be convinced that i could not moderate.
until i knew that without a doubt, i kept returning to drink, trying to control blahblahblah, trying to find one more method that would "work"for me.
that's what i see you doing....and now you've found the method that supposedly makes that possible.
i would not try and "argue" you out of it. If anyone can, it is only temporary until you know the truth about yourself for yourself.
until i knew that without a doubt, i kept returning to drink, trying to control blahblahblah, trying to find one more method that would "work"for me.
that's what i see you doing....and now you've found the method that supposedly makes that possible.
i would not try and "argue" you out of it. If anyone can, it is only temporary until you know the truth about yourself for yourself.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
The Sinclair Method is off topic here folks.
One of the reasons for that is I've never seen anyone drinking again on naltrexone have that work out long term.
Naltrexone in an abstinence based programme is a different story.
Dee
Moderator
SR
One of the reasons for that is I've never seen anyone drinking again on naltrexone have that work out long term.
Naltrexone in an abstinence based programme is a different story.
Dee
Moderator
SR
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