What’s the story on relapse?
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 20
You have to be done drinking in order to avoid relapse. You have to not want to drink any more. You may need in-person help, or you may be able to figure it out with online help, but you need to figure out all those reasons for drinking, and how to change those things in your life. I made a lot of changes before I quit, that enabled my success.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 102
I was "cursed" by not having any withdrawal symptoms. I did drink quite heavily but just sailed thru the days and weeks. In fact there's always a person or two that will criticize my addiction and say I must not have been a real addict! (Yeah, there competition everywhere).
Well that's all an AV or whatever you want to call it, wants to hear!
"Gee, if I don't go into withdrawal I must not be an alkie, therefore I'll have a couple drinks!"
So after several rounds of that kind of magical thinking, I started trusting my own instincts and my own body and knew I needed to become a former drinker.
HTH,
Holly.🎋
Well that's all an AV or whatever you want to call it, wants to hear!
"Gee, if I don't go into withdrawal I must not be an alkie, therefore I'll have a couple drinks!"
So after several rounds of that kind of magical thinking, I started trusting my own instincts and my own body and knew I needed to become a former drinker.
HTH,
Holly.🎋
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MN
Posts: 8,704
Originally Posted by least 
I relapsed over and over until I finally wanted to be sober more than I wanted to drink. 
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Wcoast US
Posts: 106
The picture becomes clearer.
What about when many of the things that caused you to drink will not be going away or may even become more difficult in the future and you cannot always take yourself out of the picture? I am noting some things that cause the anxiety up my neck that I can avoid by leaving the room or going outside for a little bit. Some are more overwhelming realities that may never go away until I'm gone or alone. I must be in the situation but in control of myself in it.
I think that most of us living in this time have difficulty being in the moment, especially if it is uncomfortable, but I want to learn to do it. [some of you said that here & it's an ugly truth]
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Location: Wcoast US
Posts: 106
Thanks, Venecia, for the other thread. I should have searched for threads before I started this, but sometimes I can't find what I'm looking for. I found it as interesting and helpful as the responses here. Even though my thread may be redundant, it shows that this is something a lot of us have to work through.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 874
Three times I chose to make a serious effort to quit. ( I had to quit on another occasion because I was pregnant - but that was more of a necessity than a real choice) I went back because I wanted to.
This last time was different and I've been successful for 13 months because I really wanted to quit. And, I enjoy being sober more than I enjoyed being drunk - which is sort of the same thing others have said.
Strangely, I think part of my success is because this time I'm single so I have to one to enable me or to lean on if I'm drinking - I'd be totally screwed because I'd have no back up. I hope I'm relaying that thought properly.
This last time was different and I've been successful for 13 months because I really wanted to quit. And, I enjoy being sober more than I enjoyed being drunk - which is sort of the same thing others have said.
Strangely, I think part of my success is because this time I'm single so I have to one to enable me or to lean on if I'm drinking - I'd be totally screwed because I'd have no back up. I hope I'm relaying that thought properly.
non-drinker
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 13,841
No, becoming sober doesn't make your problems magically disappear. But, drinking didn't do that either. In my case, drinking actually compounded my problems. When I got and stayed sober I was able to meet those problems head-on instead of trying to escape. Facing life's problems is not an easy task, but it's something we all must do. I find that facing those challenges is a whole lot easier without alcohol. The surprising thing is that I also find the good times to be so much better too
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
What about when many of the things that caused you to drink will not be going away...
Fervor,
nothing external caused me to drink.
that "cause", really, is self-made and internal.
if that's tough to grasp, or you think it's false, you will always be at the mercy of circumstance as far as sobriety is concerned.
Fervor,
nothing external caused me to drink.
that "cause", really, is self-made and internal.
if that's tough to grasp, or you think it's false, you will always be at the mercy of circumstance as far as sobriety is concerned.
You can have reasons, or you can have results, but you can't have both.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,232
Hi, Fervor -- Regarding circumstances triggering drinking... Swear an oath to yourself that you won't reach for alcohol as a solution to "situations" anymore. Just go ahead and BE lonely, angry, restless, scared, etc. Those feelings won't kill you. But alcohol will.
Do that, and then sobriety can start to work some magic for you. The truth is: Once you get sober and stay sober a while, you will get MUCH better at eliminating those problems that currently drive you to drink. You'll find yourself EASILY solving problems that have hung around for years!!! You'll naturally:
The first step is to get and stay sober. Nothing gets better until you do that.
Do that, and then sobriety can start to work some magic for you. The truth is: Once you get sober and stay sober a while, you will get MUCH better at eliminating those problems that currently drive you to drink. You'll find yourself EASILY solving problems that have hung around for years!!! You'll naturally:
- Distance yourself from toxic people.
- Not let things get under your skin.
- Clean up financial problems.
- De-escalate and avoid interpersonal conflicts.
- Find a living circumstance that's comfortable.
- Etc.
The first step is to get and stay sober. Nothing gets better until you do that.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by fini
What about when many of the things that caused you to drink will not be going away...
Fervor,
nothing external caused me to drink.
that "cause", really, is self-made and internal.
if that's tough to grasp, or you think it's false, you will always be at the mercy of circumstance as far as sobriety is concerned.
Fervor,
nothing external caused me to drink.
that "cause", really, is self-made and internal.
if that's tough to grasp, or you think it's false, you will always be at the mercy of circumstance as far as sobriety is concerned.
great (attemp at an) excuse to blame circumstances gettin me drunk,tho.
i had to learn how to "be" when i got sober, many times that involved being uncomfortable while learning.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Wcoast US
Posts: 106
Good news
Something has kicked in by reading and re-reading these responses.
I did not begin drinking until I was about 48 in 2002. I didn't drink at all up until then because I got so sick from my first drinking experience as a late teen I wanted nothing to do with it. There was no drinking in our home, not even for visitors.
I like to grow veggies and don't like to use chemical poisons so I used beer baits in the garden. I kept a bit of cheap beer in the 'fridge to re-fill them when needed. It was never a problem. I never thought about it and as far as I can recall I was able to handle most difficulties that life brought.
However, that changed. A horrible situation developed that was outside of my control. (I think control is a very big factor in this thing.) I believed my daughter to be in danger by certain activities, but I was forced to allow it by others who had the last say in the matter. It was mentally excruciating, expecially in the late night hours as you know how things are more dark mentally then as well as physically. I fought to change it but it always came out that it must be the way it was.
One day out in the garden on a beautiful sunshiny day I looked at the can in my had as I re-filled my snail bait container and I guess I had the thought that here was a way to take the edge off of the debilitating anxiety of it all. You can probably tell me the rest of the story.
So, in view of your posts, I began to see it come together. Something like this:
That drink of beer in the garden for said reason did get me through that situation without much trouble until it was no longer an issue. However, the precedent had been set: if it's hard, drink and you will get through it. As time went by, other difficulties arose, as they
will in life, and I used the same MO to get through them until I arrived where I am now - apparently unable to get through even simple troubles without my buddy, beer.
The way back is the same thing in reverse. I must re-set the precedent. I must learn to deal with greater and greater difficulties without running to it to make them go away, at least in my mind.
This is really quite a breakthrough for me, simple as it seems. It is, after all, what most of you have been telling me all along, however, for me this means that it may be that I may lapse back into that old mentality, but I can overcome it little by little increasingly, just as it overcame me little by little increasingly, and I don't need to fear it because I understand it and with understanding I can defeat it. I can choose my battles and become stronger and stronger.
My first day one I only just got past day six then allowed something to get to me pretty easily. I had no anxiety or cravings, I just reverted to the old mentality. If I could do six days, I can do more, and longer! It's a battle lost, not the war. No war is won without many battles and campaigns, and forces sometimes retreat and regroup to a better advantage.
Back to the control issue. I looked to the drink to help me control myself but the servant became the master, like a rich person who may look to another to oversee their finances for them to relieve them of the burden may end up having handed over the riches to them unwittingly in the end.
This is great. I have a hope and excitement I haven't had about this situation since I began to try to take it into hand because I haven't lost all of my riches yet by a long shot.
I may take this and begin a new thread with it.
Thank you, compadres!
I did not begin drinking until I was about 48 in 2002. I didn't drink at all up until then because I got so sick from my first drinking experience as a late teen I wanted nothing to do with it. There was no drinking in our home, not even for visitors.
I like to grow veggies and don't like to use chemical poisons so I used beer baits in the garden. I kept a bit of cheap beer in the 'fridge to re-fill them when needed. It was never a problem. I never thought about it and as far as I can recall I was able to handle most difficulties that life brought.
However, that changed. A horrible situation developed that was outside of my control. (I think control is a very big factor in this thing.) I believed my daughter to be in danger by certain activities, but I was forced to allow it by others who had the last say in the matter. It was mentally excruciating, expecially in the late night hours as you know how things are more dark mentally then as well as physically. I fought to change it but it always came out that it must be the way it was.
One day out in the garden on a beautiful sunshiny day I looked at the can in my had as I re-filled my snail bait container and I guess I had the thought that here was a way to take the edge off of the debilitating anxiety of it all. You can probably tell me the rest of the story.
So, in view of your posts, I began to see it come together. Something like this:
That drink of beer in the garden for said reason did get me through that situation without much trouble until it was no longer an issue. However, the precedent had been set: if it's hard, drink and you will get through it. As time went by, other difficulties arose, as they
will in life, and I used the same MO to get through them until I arrived where I am now - apparently unable to get through even simple troubles without my buddy, beer.
The way back is the same thing in reverse. I must re-set the precedent. I must learn to deal with greater and greater difficulties without running to it to make them go away, at least in my mind.
This is really quite a breakthrough for me, simple as it seems. It is, after all, what most of you have been telling me all along, however, for me this means that it may be that I may lapse back into that old mentality, but I can overcome it little by little increasingly, just as it overcame me little by little increasingly, and I don't need to fear it because I understand it and with understanding I can defeat it. I can choose my battles and become stronger and stronger.
My first day one I only just got past day six then allowed something to get to me pretty easily. I had no anxiety or cravings, I just reverted to the old mentality. If I could do six days, I can do more, and longer! It's a battle lost, not the war. No war is won without many battles and campaigns, and forces sometimes retreat and regroup to a better advantage.
Back to the control issue. I looked to the drink to help me control myself but the servant became the master, like a rich person who may look to another to oversee their finances for them to relieve them of the burden may end up having handed over the riches to them unwittingly in the end.
This is great. I have a hope and excitement I haven't had about this situation since I began to try to take it into hand because I haven't lost all of my riches yet by a long shot.
I may take this and begin a new thread with it.
Thank you, compadres!
Last edited by Fervor; 03-19-2016 at 01:24 PM. Reason: typo
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Wcoast US
Posts: 106
"Are you saying that you will deal with increasingly large troubles gradually?"
Hmm. Actually, it sounds like that, doesn't it? I may need to re-think it because the next occasion to drink always needs to be decided on before you encounter it or your chances are iffy.
"What happens when your current trouble is larger than your perceived ability to deal with it? "
The key word here is ‘perceived’. How do we know it’s only my perceived ability and not my true ability? The fact is the mind has limits and when it hits a limit it does something to relieve the pressure. Illness, despair and depression, drinking, eating, lashing out, denial are all results of it. This is why torture works.
I don’t know what happens. That remains to be seen. Geez I haven’t even resumed continuous non-drinking yet. I may turn to drinking again. From my reading on relapse, it happens, but I’m not going to live in fear that if I blow it and drink one day that all is lost and I can’t ever find my way back to not drinking. If that were true, why even try? One day drinking in a week is better than seven. Ten days drinking in a month is better than thirty. Drinking three beers in a day is better than drinking eight or ten. If I had it all figured out, I wouldn’t be here.
What I do know, now, is how I got where I am (a drinker) and therefore I have a clue how to get back to where I was (a non-drinker). First I have to change my habits that have me in this rut, then I have to find new and better ways to cope when I run into difficulties.
Hmm. Actually, it sounds like that, doesn't it? I may need to re-think it because the next occasion to drink always needs to be decided on before you encounter it or your chances are iffy.
"What happens when your current trouble is larger than your perceived ability to deal with it? "
The key word here is ‘perceived’. How do we know it’s only my perceived ability and not my true ability? The fact is the mind has limits and when it hits a limit it does something to relieve the pressure. Illness, despair and depression, drinking, eating, lashing out, denial are all results of it. This is why torture works.
I don’t know what happens. That remains to be seen. Geez I haven’t even resumed continuous non-drinking yet. I may turn to drinking again. From my reading on relapse, it happens, but I’m not going to live in fear that if I blow it and drink one day that all is lost and I can’t ever find my way back to not drinking. If that were true, why even try? One day drinking in a week is better than seven. Ten days drinking in a month is better than thirty. Drinking three beers in a day is better than drinking eight or ten. If I had it all figured out, I wouldn’t be here.
What I do know, now, is how I got where I am (a drinker) and therefore I have a clue how to get back to where I was (a non-drinker). First I have to change my habits that have me in this rut, then I have to find new and better ways to cope when I run into difficulties.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Hey, hope it doesn't seem I'm sitting on a high horse. I haven't even climbed up to a pony or even a small dog yet. The reason I asked the questions is because it sounds like maybe you have decided that if the problem is big enough (exceeds your "true" ability), you will give yourself permission to drink.
I believe that you and I have the true ability to not drink ever, for any reason, starting right now. This is offered in solidarity, seein as I'm a mere seven days past the last drink and within a whiff of the next at any given time if I give myself permission. In fact, that's what always happens. To me.
xo
O
I believe that you and I have the true ability to not drink ever, for any reason, starting right now. This is offered in solidarity, seein as I'm a mere seven days past the last drink and within a whiff of the next at any given time if I give myself permission. In fact, that's what always happens. To me.
xo
O
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Wcoast US
Posts: 106
Oh, I didn’t know that. I thought you were way into days, maybe years even.
I see what you’re saying and I know it’s true, although in my failure at this first attempt to stop here at SR I had no craving, no withdrawal anxiety or even any trouble that nixed it. I just found myself there. Reflex? Habit kicking in? I don’t know. Obviously I was not as aware in my brain as I needed to be. That’s really what I was talking about in that post. I need to be seriously on task in my mind all of the time. Recognizing what is happening and how and why I am reacting as I do. I need not to react but to think and make a proper response, which is “No, I don’t need to drink because of this.”
Maybe I’m not as concerned about it as I should be. I don’t think that’s the case. I think I’m looking at something that was complex and was a long time coming about and it will take time and diligence to overturn it and if I beat myself up too much about this early failure I may give up trying yet again and I don’t want that to be the way it goes.
I could decide to stop abruptly tonight or tomorrow morning, but if I don’t understand why I failed last time and make some needed adjustments it seems likely to me I will end up here again and I’ve read that the more times you do that, the more difficult it becomes.
I’ve realized that I’ve been struggling on so many fronts lately that my main thrust regarding not drinking is weak because I am ineffectively struggling on all of them at the same time. Having realized that, I am currently looking at ways to take off the pressure on those other fronts so that I can give my all to the main thing, which is not drinking. [No, I cannot just ignore them and stop drinking as they are part of the reason I do it.] I don’t think it will take long, now that I know that I need to dispatch them quickly, and then the problems that I perceive as being my nemeses – the daily disappointments and frustrations – can take their proper place, beneath my feet. The indecision about them which has been getting in the way of dispatching them ‘forthwith’ is now broken. They are nothing compared with the main thing so it’s not that important how I deal with them. I can take the easy/quick way out with them. That is what has paralyzed me or put me in a limbo state only dealing with the daily superfluous, which is just treading water. In need to start kicking and swim.
I don’t want anyone here to stop telling me like it is. I need it and I know they are right. I just need to adjust what they are saying to my own reality.
I see what you’re saying and I know it’s true, although in my failure at this first attempt to stop here at SR I had no craving, no withdrawal anxiety or even any trouble that nixed it. I just found myself there. Reflex? Habit kicking in? I don’t know. Obviously I was not as aware in my brain as I needed to be. That’s really what I was talking about in that post. I need to be seriously on task in my mind all of the time. Recognizing what is happening and how and why I am reacting as I do. I need not to react but to think and make a proper response, which is “No, I don’t need to drink because of this.”
Maybe I’m not as concerned about it as I should be. I don’t think that’s the case. I think I’m looking at something that was complex and was a long time coming about and it will take time and diligence to overturn it and if I beat myself up too much about this early failure I may give up trying yet again and I don’t want that to be the way it goes.
I could decide to stop abruptly tonight or tomorrow morning, but if I don’t understand why I failed last time and make some needed adjustments it seems likely to me I will end up here again and I’ve read that the more times you do that, the more difficult it becomes.
I’ve realized that I’ve been struggling on so many fronts lately that my main thrust regarding not drinking is weak because I am ineffectively struggling on all of them at the same time. Having realized that, I am currently looking at ways to take off the pressure on those other fronts so that I can give my all to the main thing, which is not drinking. [No, I cannot just ignore them and stop drinking as they are part of the reason I do it.] I don’t think it will take long, now that I know that I need to dispatch them quickly, and then the problems that I perceive as being my nemeses – the daily disappointments and frustrations – can take their proper place, beneath my feet. The indecision about them which has been getting in the way of dispatching them ‘forthwith’ is now broken. They are nothing compared with the main thing so it’s not that important how I deal with them. I can take the easy/quick way out with them. That is what has paralyzed me or put me in a limbo state only dealing with the daily superfluous, which is just treading water. In need to start kicking and swim.
I don’t want anyone here to stop telling me like it is. I need it and I know they are right. I just need to adjust what they are saying to my own reality.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Fervor, when I quit, I decided I was going to do it and succeed, even if no one in the history of the world had ever done it. It was going to be me. Nothing would stop me. I looked at everything that was riding on this, and it was EVERYTHING. So, I asked myself, what would I do if someone were standing in front of me, taking it all from me by force? What would I do? Would I roll over and say, well, maybe I will give it another shot next time? Not on your life. I would fight and I would do everthing to win.
I understood that this was the end, that there was only ever going to be one shot at this. I would not fail because I wouldn't allow failure. Nothing would stop me.
And when I went through this in my mind, it was over. All the pain, the heartache, the sickness, the anxiety, worry, depression, misery, all ended. I didn't have to drink anymore. I gave myself permission to succeed. And the feeling of relief was incredible, like the weight of the world had been lifted from me. I didn't have to be a drunk anymore.
Instead of adjusting what others say to your own reality, you might be more successful if you adjust your reality. That is where the rubber meets the road.
I understood that this was the end, that there was only ever going to be one shot at this. I would not fail because I wouldn't allow failure. Nothing would stop me.
And when I went through this in my mind, it was over. All the pain, the heartache, the sickness, the anxiety, worry, depression, misery, all ended. I didn't have to drink anymore. I gave myself permission to succeed. And the feeling of relief was incredible, like the weight of the world had been lifted from me. I didn't have to be a drunk anymore.
Instead of adjusting what others say to your own reality, you might be more successful if you adjust your reality. That is where the rubber meets the road.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Originally Posted by Fervor
Oh, I didn’t know that. I thought you were way into days, maybe years even.
I see what you’re saying and I know it’s true, although in my failure at this first attempt to stop here at SR I had no craving, no withdrawal anxiety or even any trouble that nixed it. I just found myself there. Reflex? Habit kicking in? I don’t know. Obviously I was not as aware in my brain as I needed to be. That’s really what I was talking about in that post. I need to be seriously on task in my mind all of the time. Recognizing what is happening and how and why I am reacting as I do. I need not to react but to think and make a proper response, which is “No, I don’t need to drink because of this.”
I see what you’re saying and I know it’s true, although in my failure at this first attempt to stop here at SR I had no craving, no withdrawal anxiety or even any trouble that nixed it. I just found myself there. Reflex? Habit kicking in? I don’t know. Obviously I was not as aware in my brain as I needed to be. That’s really what I was talking about in that post. I need to be seriously on task in my mind all of the time. Recognizing what is happening and how and why I am reacting as I do. I need not to react but to think and make a proper response, which is “No, I don’t need to drink because of this.”
On the one hand, you are saying that you have no idea what it was that led you to drink again. I get that. Same thing happened to me repeatedly. People would say "What happened?" And I would say, "I dunno." Or I would point out stressful things in my life sort of just to satisfy the question. Like... "Ok, you want a reason? Here's a reason."
On the other hand you are saying that you need to learn to watch for your reactions in order to ward off the drinking thoughts. At least I think that's what you're saying? In which case, aren't you kind of screwed because of the first hand?
That's why the only answer can be "I will not drink no matter what."
Doesn't matter what all the "whys" are - regardless of the whys, I will not drink.
Does that make sense?
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