Stang

The eternally unanswered question, which came first the chicken or the egg? I was thinking about how it applies to the self loathing aspect of alcoholism. I was so young when I started drinking I really dont know whether the self hatred came before alcoholism or was a product of it. How about you? Which came first?

zjw

I think my problems started with a crap upbringing then I learned to self medicate with booze and drugs then I had to deal with real life problems and cope with those so I as usual turned to Booze and such to cope and medicate this led to more problems and more self medicating etc....

I think the reality is for life will always have its fair share of crap weather or not I choose to drink over it and add to the crap is really what's at stake.

So in my case the crap came first I just didn't know how to cope and made it worse by drinking I time yeah it was confusing trying to unravel how it had gotten to the point that it had.

least

I remember being dissatisfied with myself and my life at a young age. I suppose that's one reason I drank - to forget it temporarily.

I do know that my self hatred went away after being sober for a few months and starting to practice gratitude every day.

Aellyce

I've been studying this question in my professional life for many years now in many different ways. Far too many concepts and practical approaches relative to whatever I could post here, but here are excerpts from an article that I've found personally very interesting, compelling and helpful in my recovery and psychotherapy that I've been doing in recovery. It's actually quite old paper, from a psychoanalyst who uses art therapy to understand and help her patients.

"The repetitive self-attacks with drugs have been
viewed as an early-developed and primary conflict
in those addicted. This self-attack has been
labeled the narcissistic defense, as anger and
other feelings are defended against by narcissistic
withdrawal into euphoria."

"Drug abuse can be viewed as a maladaptive
way of handling feelings by retreat into euphoric
states. This pattern of defense against feelings by
blocking them out is believed to have its roots in
early childhood development. Many theoreticians
feel that this pattern originates in the first
six months of life due to a particularly frustrating
environment (Spotnitz & Meadows, 1976;
Strean, 1972; Winnicott, 1965). It is believed that
infants, sheltered in the nonverbal world, and
subjected to excessive frustrations, lack the mental
apparatus (the fully developed ego) to aid in
complete discharge of aggressive impulses. The
infant can kick and cry, attempting to manipulate
an uncomfortable and frustrating environment,
but if the environment does not respond, his aggression
continues to increase. To protect the
much-needed love object from overwhelming
rage, the infant internalizes or blocks the
heightened aggressive impulses. This is evident
in the baby who falls asleep in order to tolerate
extreme frustration. The rage is blocked by narcissistic
withdrawal. The avoidance of externalizing
aggression by turning it inward has been
referred to as the narcissistic defense. It is reminiscent
of the addict’s retreat to drug-induced
euphoria. The internalization of aggression and other
hostile feelings eventually becomes a compulsion,
and we see its manifestations in drug abuse
and alcoholism. The substance abuser uses an
early-learned defense system, the blockage of
feeling, to protect the much-needed love object."

"I shoot heroin so I don’t have to think about how much I hate my parents."

And then the use of drugs (or alcohol) becomes a familiar escape that feeds the cycle over and over until some drastic change occurs either merely because the old state is impossible to maintain (we can no longer take care of ourselves even in basic needs) or because we finally launch into action before that completely helpless state.

ScottFromWI

I guess to me if really doesn't matter one way or the other. I'm an alcoholic and I have other problems separate from my addiction that need to be addressed separately. Certainly they were connected, but dwelling on the past and wondering "why" I am an alcoholic serves me no purpose.

Jsober

I had feelings of anxiety and being inadequate before alcohol. Alcohol was a symptom of deeper issues. Take away the booze and I still have those problems. So in sobriety I have to continuously work on those things. They didn't just magically go away when I got sober.

Andante

In my view, as with so many of these type of questions, there is no binary either/or answer -- there is no chicken or egg. I believe the answer to these questions involves a complex interweaving of nature and nurture that can't always be separated out neatly.

I also agree with Scott that it in any case, it really doesn't matter. It's irrelevant to my recovery. Sure, I still have underlying self-esteem/self-hatred issues, but once I quit drinking and began turning my focus and perspective away from dwelling on MY problems and towards engaging in constructive solutions, they gradually ceased to define how I life my life. Just like alcohol no longer defines how I live my life.

Stang

Overall I tend to agree. The question is asked more out of curiosity than anything else. One way or the other I can't drink with any sense of restraint.

Dee74

I had underlying reasons for drinking - but then drinking became a problem on its own and actually outlasted some of the things I initially drank over

D

zjw

To sober up thinking my problems would magically go away is what kept me from getting sober sooner. I new life would still suck on day one so wtf bother trying I also just figured life would continue to suck. When I got sober life sucked and continued to suck for a while but it got better in time. The best advice no one gave me and I wish they had prior to getting sober is that yes life's gonna suck your problems are not going to magically get better just because you put the plug in the jug BUT in time slowly but surely things will indeed improve and your ability to handle life's troubles will improve.

leviathan

I really do believe that the "trauma model" of addiction fits for many. I, however just took to it (and other drugs) like a duck to water. I don't remember wanting to escape anything when I was young.

Already a professional partier, it was just a natural evolution for me to start medicating mid-life stresses. Then it all spun out.

Thumpalumpacus

I spent much of my boyhood trying to.please my undemonstrative father, and came out of it with low self-esteem. I didn't start my self-loathing until I started my road to recovery, and started viewing objectively the way I had treated the people in my life whom I love.

At that point, I loathed myself and who I'd become, a hypocrite who mouthed lofty ideals but lived a base, and yet baseless, existence.

I'm not the man I want to be yet, but I'm a work in progress -- a saying made true nowadays by the fact that there is actually progress.

silentrun

I really don't know how much I trust my own recollections when it comes to this. It seemed to be I was recovering from early trauma nicely. I think that ability came from me being highly skilled at denial. I do remember being mostly optimistic and happy before I started the business of turning myself into a drunk. I do think most, if not all, of my validation was external. I was a good worker=I was a good person, I was attractive=I had value, I was good at saving money=I could be trusted. Mostly I received those things but it still was causing some problems because no matter how hard I tried it was never enough. It wasn't until the booze worked it's magic on me that I knew true self loathing though. It wasn't until I started to recover that I realized I didn't need someone else to validate me.