oldsoul1122

Some say that AA isn't a cult but can have a cult mentality. So if something other than the AA way or against AA is mentioned it will be rejected. At a meeting last night a man mentioned that alcoholism is nothing but brain malfunction having to do with serotonin and dopamine and it was obvious it stirred some people up.

Gottalife

"We have "a" (singular) way out upon which we are all agreed"

Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to "this" (singular) simple program.

Having had a spiritual awakening as "the" (singular) result of these steps......

The first example of the menu approach was Dr Bob himself. He initially only accepted part of the program. He got drunk. He accepted the whole program and stayed sober.

I don't see a menu. If there is, there is only one item on it, a suggested program in it's entirety. That is all AA is. I don't have the courage or perhaps arrogance to think that I can tell anyone a part version will work. In most cases I have seen, it doesn't.

stevieg46

Well said Mike I agree 100% .

regards .

Stevie

Fly N Buy

Coffee makers make coffee.......

"....suggested as a program of recovery" - much like if one jumps out of an airplane with parachute, it is suggested the ripcord be pulled at some point before hitting the ground.

Pray for the still suffering alcoholic - they may be 20 years + sober friend holding your hand at the end of the meeting.

I need to keep coming back, that's conclusive.

JeffreyAK

Well, that's the singular program approach - we're all the same, there are no unique snowflakes, what worked for me will work for you, and if it does not it's your fault, etc. etc. It's simplistic and incorrect. A single rigid program can work for some people, and that's fine if it does, whatever works, but every snowflake is indeed unique.

In my experience, what works best for the largest number of people is some kind of blend of elements from different sources, with each blend being a little different. Bit of this, bit of that, more of this, less of that, just the parts that resonate most with you as an individual with free choice and limitless opportunity.

Andante

Well, that’s true, and very nicely put, but let’s not forget that the context of this discussion is about whether it’s appropriate to cut off a 26-year-sober member of AA for speaking “heresy” in a an AA meeting.

I can see both sides of the coin — one being that shares which “water down” the solution as presented by the Big Book endanger newcomers for whom only the most extreme measures will suffice; the other being that the “love and tolerance” part of the deal requires that even the hardest-line program drill sergeant be respectful and courteous towards anyone who shares, even if he doesn’t agree with the content of the share itself.

stevieg46

Sorry Jeffrey do not agree I finally got on the program near 10 years ago , had 2 got drunk , 20 +drunk then 11 years off n on , 1973-- 2006 =dry drunk no steps Hp. Got back asked a Sponsor for help , he asked if I wanted to do the ''real deal '' 100% no half measures all the way exactly as the Big Book says .

As promised in Step 12 ''spiritual awakening '' turned my whole life around , Never felt so spiritually and mentally well , Steps 10 11 12 on a daily basis maintains my sobriety with God of my understanding guiding me .

Do program 50% you get 50% better , 25 % u get 25% better , AA program is singular for individual he/she decides on HP of there own understanding , we have differences individually through various experiences , I do not identify with someone with dual addiction drugs/alcohol , AA is for alcohol problems , NA or CA likewise , we leave our differences outside the door so we can concentrate on ''our common welfare '' comes first ''personal recovery '' depends on AA unity , the word ''Rarely '' have we seen a person fail , in my opinion illustrates that AA works 100 % if you thoroughly follow the path as outlined in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous and has done so since 1938 when Bill W wrote the last 6 steps . No add on's no hybrids , bad sponsorship is the main cause of people looking outwith the program , outside the doors of AA, individually members can bolt on religion /or whatever to enhance /enrich their spiritual progress that is a '' personal choice '' .

Regards .
Stevie.

Carlotta

The role of the secretary is that of a facilitator.
It is a service position not a bullying position.
The secretary is neither a censor nor the AA police. His/her job is to pass the basket and tally up the $, sign slips, ask people to read, make sure (politely) that no one hogs the meeting with a too long winded share and remind people that cross talk/interrupting others is not ok. In that respect, it is also a peace keeper position

Bob's share was ok (I ve heard far worst than BS at meetings)
That lady's share was ok
The guy who interrupted her was out of line since there is no cross talks at meetings but it happens once in a while.

The secretary added fuel to the fire and did not do his job as a facilitator properly.
Instead of interjecting his own opinion rudely, he should have reminded the guy who interrupted the lady that there is no cross talk at meetings and that he would have an opportunity to share as soon as she was finished.

Just my 2 cents.

Ken33xx

Arguments over the bb and its interpretation are no different than what I have heard my mother complain about (she doesn't agree with my sister's group)

In the end there's no right or wrong.

Personally I've found members like Bob to be very territorial. That's his meeting and he probably has a handful of followers
Good luck sharing anything he might find disagreeable.

awuh1

Jeffrey, I'm always interested to see what people who don't do AA have to say about what the program “is”. “We are all the same” ? Where does the AA literature say that? AA is a “single rigid program”? The AA program is suggested steps. How could it be less rigid? “There are no unique snowflakes”? Well I would venture to say that no two people have ever worked the steps in exactly the same way, just because we are in fact unique.

I would suggest that your interpretation of the program may itself be a bit “simplistic and incorrect”.

freshstart57

Wait a minute - I thought I just read this: That sounds pretty rigid to me.

Who exactly are you taking issue with?

ScottFromWI

Folks....let us please remember that our goal is to support each other, not publicly argue personal opinions about particular recovery methods.

JeffreyAK

That's you, what about other folks with different experiences? I'm happy you found a path that works for you, but that's your path. Other people have different paths, and they get and stay at least as happy and sober as you are by following them, and they are not wrong if those paths work for them. The goal is happy sobriety, isn't it? It was for me, and it worked out that way too, following quite a different path

Ken33xx

My previous post I forgot to say the my mother and sister belong to a bible study group. Their arguments are over the interpretation of the Bible.

Pretty much the the same kind of in-house fighting we see in aa

Wastinglife

With so many different people from different walks of life attending AA meetings, not everyone is going to get along. I went to a meeting last week where a guy dropped about 50 F-bombs throughout his 10 minute share. 3 people got up and left during his tirade about his family. I was secretly amused watching everyone in the room squirm.

2muchpain

Your post reminded me of a meeting I used to go to a few years ago. A handful of old timers pretty much ran the meeting. And they ran that meeting with an iron fist!! If you had a different opinion about anything they said, you were going to pay for it. They had absolutely no problem cross talking to berate somebody. Pretty much treated everybody else like children. Got into a heated argument with one of them because he banged a door into me, almost knocking me down. Apparently I was in his way. They definitely knew the BB backwards and forwards. Tried to pound the 12 steps into everybodys heads. Very toxic meeting. John

esinger

This thread makes me chuckle. I'm a happy dry drunk.

Gottalife

That's me too, and a couple of million others. We found a common solution.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your solution Jeffrey, it worked for you and that's all that counts in that regard. Fine by me, no problem with that. The problem arises when Mike (me) passes off his unique solution, proven only to work for him, as the AA solution which is proven to work for millions.

The problem arises because, as somebody mentioned earlier, some newcomers really need AAs spiritual solution. It may be their last hope. But who among us can judge who needs to hear the AA solution and who can get by on something else. The only thing we can do is when someone comes to AA, make sure they have the opportunity to hear the AA message. It is up to them what they do with it.

JeffreyAK

Mike, I can count millions who fled from AA too - it's like 90-95% of newcomers. Different strokes.

But I see your point - AA is a rigid program, and you either follow the program or you leave, or (in many cases) you just shut up during meetings and talk to people outside the meeting. The mistake the woman made in the meeting under discussion was speaking up and saying what many others in the room were probably already thinking, but didn't want to say.

miamifella

One thing I learned from AA is that I can only speak from my own experience. I can only say what worked--and what did not work--for me. I cannot say what will or will not work for you, but can offer my experience as a suggested path.

In meetings one is not supposed to take another person's inventory. I often think that it would be more in keeping with the spirit of the program if that guideline were followed outside the meetings as well. Hearing people evaluating the programs of others and telling others of their shortcomings did not help me in AA and it does not help me now on SR.

AA works for the people it works for and does not work for those it does not work for. I do not care which group any individual falls into--I want to hear exactly what they did that worked for them whether it was in AA or out of it. Hearing people share their experience is what helps me the most.