MattAbroad

Hi all,

Attendance at AA meetings has played a pretty big part in my early sobriety to this point. I get a lot out of listening to peoples' stories and sometimes sharing my own. I enjoy the positive energy in many of the halls and I look forward to checking different meetings out, in search of a home group. There are also aspects of the AA program that I am less enamored with (strict adherence to a 75 year-old text, promotion of the disease model, a lot of self-labeling, etc). The recitation of a Catholic prayer at the end of nearly every meeting I attend is a particular turnoff.

Due to some of these misgivings, and for a few other reasons, I am very hesitant about the prospect of working the steps. The idea of finding a sponsor and letting them into some of the deepest parts of myself makes me very uncomfortable. I also don't like the assertion that a man-made construct like the 12 steps is the only way to a spiritual awakening, which seems to be a common position among many of the AA's I have met. I guess my question is: How necessary do long-term AA's feel going through the 12 steps is? Is it pretty much a prerequisite for recovery in AA? Does anyone here have good AA recovery without going through the steps? If so, did you do other things in place of working the steps?

Thanks for any help you guys can give! Have a great Tuesday!

Ken33xx

I`ve never formally done the steps nor formally had a sponsor and I haven`t had a drink since joining AA over 20 years ago.

The quality of my sobriety? No better or worse than many of those in the rooms as far as I can tell.

However, I will say if you decided not to work the 12- steps/ get a sponsor right away (or at all) I`d be careful about openlngly sharing this. There are members who may take your refusal as a personal affront to AA which can make attending certain meetings an uncomfortable experience.

IOAA2

Hi.
There is a word “acceptance” that’s used a lot in AA. When I came to the program I was undisciplined and stubborn. I eventually found out that if the program works for millions it’s not going to change for my petty dislikes.
Can you figure what reception we’d get at the IRS if we said I don’t like this or that?
AA has worked for many years and a saying is “if it works don’t FIX it.” It’s part of life and we need to adapt or our misery is refunded.

BE WELL

zjw

For what its worth the lords prayer is not a catholic prayer and the 12 steps I do not believe are meant to be some kind of 12 steps to spiritual awakening by any means but rahter 12 steps to follow to help one gain / maintain sobriety.

If you cant find a sponsor you comfortable with why would you wanna allow someone your not comfy with into those parts of yourself?

Allow things to be. Give it time. If and when you find a sponsor you'll know. Otheriwse like another poster said some go and never get one. I dont have one. If and when I find one great till then no big deal. A big part of it is just living life on lifes terms going witht he flow.

You have some sort of issue with some stranger being a sponsor dont get one then till your comfortable who cares dont worry about it. You have some issue with the lords prayer then just tune it out and just go with the flow.

You decide aa's not for you or wtvr else then dont go whats it matter.

But no matter what you do or you do not do just go with the flow and stay sober. The rest just adds to your quality of life after that or it doesnt. its no big deal its just life.

zjw

double post

ScottFromWI

I don't follow AA but I also attended meetings early in my recovery. I would say that if going to the meetings help, by all means keep going. The 12 steps are really the foundation of the program, so not working them is certainly not going to allow you to realize the full potential as defined by the program. It could certainly ruffle some feathers too, just as it would if you took a college class and didn't follow the syllabus, or went to a church and didn't follow the doctrines of the specific religion, etc.

On the flip side, it is certainly possible to work them without letting out your darkest inner sercrets. A sponsor is merely a guide...some might be pushy but that's a function of the person, not the program.

Bottom line, you need to make the decision for what is best for you.

keithj

Matt,
I've been an active AA member for nearly 2 decades, and I've seen a lot of people come and go. Here's my observation: I personally witness hundreds of people come into the rooms of AA every year and fail to stay sober. Maybe they weren't serious about it, who knows. I also see many people come in, get very involved in service and fellowship. Of these, some stay sober for the long haul, and many have a good run of a few years before returning to drinking. And then there are those that come in and work the Steps. Their lives change dramatically from the inside out and they rarely return to drink. After a few years, they are generally the only ones still around, and the rest of the room has been replaced by a new group of people in their first year or two of sobriety.

That's just one guy's observation, but it pretty much matches the observations in the BB 75 years ago. 'Rarely have we seen a person fail...'

Tamerua

All I can say is what I did and what happened with me. I'm probably one of the least spiritual people there is. I was so miserable when I was drinking, negative, angry, a victim (though I didn't see any of this); I was "controlling" my drinking until my son graduated school so that I could drink the way I wanted.

The misery got to be too much and I almost lost my partner. I went to AA and promised myself that I would do the process, no skepticism, because I had no idea what I was doing anyway and how could it be worse than the way I felt?

I love the program and the steps, I have a sponsor and sponsee, a home group, etc. I saw how I created that negative head space... Me. I did it. I'm not spiritual still and I have no religion. And I'm good with that.

GracieLou

This has been my experience as well and I have 20 months sober. I have already seen in my short time many that come and go and half dozen that have died. Some I new personally, some I only seen here and there but they were never in AA, they were just around it.

This is not a requirement, just as the steps are not a requirement. The steps are suggested and the BB states that you can do the fifth step with anyone you choose. It recommends a trusted person or if you are religious, then a pastor etc. You can choose who you want.

Fly N Buy

Hi Matt, Glad you're here!!

I only have 6 months in AA. At present, step work has helped for sure.
Maybe don't worry about it at this point - sounds like your new to AA.........

Perhaps just get acclimated for a while, find a home group and link up with some folks you get comfortable with and seek advice.

There are a multitude of paths to developing in one's spiritual self. Check this guy out.... I have found passage meditation quite effective Maybe read his story. It helps me a lot.
Eknath Easwaran | Blue Mountain Center of Meditation & Nilgiri Press



Glad you're here with us!!
Peace
FlyN

Pagekeeper

I can't say I jumped for joy at doing the 12 steps and getting a sponsor. I honestly started step work for the most selfish of reasons--I wanted to feel better. Life was unbearable sober and I couldn't get drunk enough. I didn't even think the steps would work. I was just so desperate to feel "normal" that I was willing to try anything.

I'll try to address your questions one at a time ...

You're not alone. I avoided getting really involved in AA for years because I dreaded the 5th step. I didn't want anyone to know me. I had a lot of fear that what I said would somehow be used against me, or it would get out and ruin my reputation. LOL kinda funny considering my drunken behavior in public (not to mention my name in the paper for DUI, etc.)

The AA program, based on the book Alcoholics Anonymous, never mentions one having to get a sponsor to do anything. Sponsorship is not a requirement. It's definitely helpful to have a sponsor take you through the literature, share their experience, and to build that relationship with another person. But you can do your 5th step with anyone--clergy, therapist, doctor, etc.

The Big Book says "We know only a little" and the foreword to the 2nd edition says:

"In all probability, we shall never be able to touch more than a fair fraction of the alcohol problem in all its ramifications. Upon therapy for the alcoholic himself, we surely have no monopoly."

AA makes no claims that the 12 steps are the only path to a spiritual awakening. Certainly there are many paths to one, as has been proven by many a saint, monk, and guru throughout history. All AA is saying is that the 12 steps worked for us. It is one way that has proven to work for many alcoholics. It is not the ONLY way. And the big book never claims it is.

Going through the 12 steps was necessary for me. I was going to die or go insane. My sobriety required the 12 steps. I cannot speak for others who may be able to sustain long term sobriety without the steps. Although the 12 steps are not a prerequisite for recovery in AA (although they are STRONGLY suggested), the 12 steps are the program of recovery offered by AA. You can attend meetings and participate in fellowship, but if you're not doing the 12 steps, you are not doing AA's program of recovery. I have seen many a person claim "AA did not work for me!" Yet this person never did AA. They went to meetings, sure. But they never did the actual program of AA--the 12 steps. Yet, when they relapse, somehow AA does not work.

But that's another topic, isn't it?

Hope this helps. Best wishes to you and congrats on your sober time.

Pagekeeper

Oh, and about the prayer at the end of the meeting ...

You don't have to say it. You can step back from the group and do your own silent meditation or just not participate. There are a few people in my group who do this. They just take a step back instead of joining the circle and bow their heads in silence. No one has ever questioned it.

I'm not religious but I say the Lord's Prayer because I've come to my own interpretation of the prayer that makes sense to me. Plus, I just like holding hands.

tomsteve

If read the big book, the word disease is used once.

Illness, on the other hand, quite a few times.

Strict adherence to a 75 year old text.
Although there Have been other methods of recovery that have sprung up and more has been learned about alcoholism( although IMO all that I've read supposedly revealed in 75 years was already noticed by doc silk worth), alcohol STILL does the same things to people that it did 2000 years ago.

Working the steps was necessary FOR ME to learn what makes me tick, to clear away the wreckage of my past, and to recover from the seemingly hopeless state of body and mind, and to live a life free from the bondage of alcohol.

oak

I don't join in with the Lord's Prayer when I go to AA meetings. I just stand apart from the group. It's not ideal, but standing silently holding hands is worse for me. (NA ends their meetings differently, which I prefer.)

I did the steps in 2001. I doubt they made much difference for me. Going to meetings and meeting with my sponsor helped. I stopped going to meetings at the end of 2001.

When I started going to meetings again in 2010, I did not get a sponsor or work the steps. Meetings helped because I met sober friends, and it helped to hear people talk about addiction and recovery. I went to AA, SMART, LifeRing, and Women for Sobriety meetings. I went to AA the most because they are more available.

I now go to NA & occasionally AA. I recently got a sponsor, someone who I have known for several years. I trust her. And I am glad I waited and have a sponsor who I trust. We're starting to work through the steps with the book, One Breath at a Time (a Buddhist guide to the steps). I'm excited to use that book.

I know someone who did not work the steps until her 23rd year of sobriety, and she had/has a deep sense of sobriety. I used to assume that most people work the steps, but I am realizing that many people just go to meetings. Do what works for you. We all heal and recover in different ways.

keithj

Just some further input:
I take a weekly AA meeting into a correctional men's facility and sponsor a number of guys there. And by sponsor, I mean taking them through the Steps as directed by the BB. Almost all of these guys have spent the last 10-30 years in and out of AA, never taking the the 12 Steps, and continually relapsing and returning to prison (5-6 times for some of them).

Without fail, the guys who are released after taking the 12 Steps have remained sober and active in AA. Many, many of the others have returned to prison within a year of release or have died. Those are the the facts of my experience.

desypete

find meetings that dont have the lords prayer at the end

over in the uk and in my area there isnt a single meeting that has the lords prayer at the end of the meeting, i dont know where that has come from but aa is nothing to with religion, i dont know how meetings get away with it as its making people need to conform to a religion, in my eyes and a lot of other peoples eyes as well

sadly there are those who have found a god and they have gone over board thinking they know what we all need is there god, so they turn there meetings into some kind of church service

this is were i know i am so lucky not having to have this situation over here to face.

find meetings around you that dont have the prayer at the end of it there must be some out there in the states ?

that will cut that part out of things and to be honest its no wonder people dont stick around aa and think its all a bunch of religious nutters if thats the face of aa that people see.

good luck to you and i hope you can find a good sponsor someone who isnt going to preach at you but will be there to help and offer up suggestions.

Soberpotamus

Hi Matt, I dropped my sponsor at Step 3 and finished the steps on my own. I only attended about 15 AA meetings as I just didn't like them. I didn't like the group I was going to at all. There aren't any agnostic AA groups around here, so I participate online at AA Agnostica and subscribe to a few newsgroups as well.

SR is much more open minded as a group, unfortunately I haven't found a real face to face support group with such diversity, and until I do, I'll be right here on this forum

I don't believe for a second that the 12 steps is the only path to a spiritual experience or enlightenment. Follow the path you feel led to go down, best wishes!

Boleo

Prerequisite... No. Good idea... Yes.

I don't know about you, but I am in recovery for the long haul. Hopefully for the rest of my life. I want the most comfortable path possible. I don't want to have to fight the temptation to drink
one-arduous-day-at-a-time for years and years till it feels like I'm walking a endless tightrope.

Not to mention, for me a relapse could prove deadly. Safety and reliability are not something I would trust to any second rate program. Pretty good recovery may be good enough for some, but I understand what Abe Lincoln meant when he said "Sometimes the good is the enemy of the best".

If I were just just taking a ride to the corner store on smooth roads with perfect weather conditions,
I guess I could get by with a 79 Hugo. However, I don't know how long my trip is going to be. I expect more than a few bumps in the road and I hope to be able to survive even the worst kind of storms.

Safe, comfortable and reliable are not my idea of optional.

Gottalife

The steps are AA. They are the AA way of life, to be lived on a daily basis. Tremendous freedom has come to me from living the steps. Possibly the main one, apart from staying sober, is not becoming dependent on meetings. A little time observing in meetings will reveal long timers who haven't worked the steps that are unable to go more than a few days without a meeting before their life begins to fall apart. If you want that, then do what they do.

The idea that we take the steps once and then sit on our hands completely misses the point. Even the big book suggests that the principles we learn need to be practiced for a life time, in all our affairs.

In the past year I have taken about thirty individuals through the steps. Most are still sober, some have undergone quite dramatic changes in their reaction to life.

The pay off for me? Here's one example. Seven years ago my wife died of an asbestos related cancer. She was seriously ill for two years before her death and suffered terribly, especially from the chemo treatment.

Yesterday my business partner called to inform me that, due to the carelessness of one of our customers, my son had unknowingly been exposed to asbestos dust that day. I reacted sanely and normally. I was upset, and experienced the emotions of fear and anger, then I made an appointment for my son at the doctors to be checked out, and registered an official complaint with the appropriate authorities. Then I called him to offer reassurance and support. At no time did it occur to me to take a drink.

And that's been a fact of my steps based sobriety. No matter what trials and low spots life has thrown at me, it has not occurred to me to drink. The tenth step promises about the problem being removed have proved absolutely true.

However, on first contact with AA, I didn't want a bar of the steps. I tried to get sober on my own because I thought I could, and I didn't tackle the steps because I thought I didn't need to. I wasn't until I came to fully understand what is meant by the term powerless that I realised I did not have a choice about the steps. That didn't come from a bunch of AAs talking me into doing it, it came from repeated disasters and defeats with alcohol. I was, as they say, beaten into a state of reasonableness. And this turned out to be the very best place from which to successfully launch a spiritually based recovery.

I concur with what the other step takers have been saying. I wonder if they have noticed that some of the most spectacular recoveries seem to come from some of the most hopeless cases.

Boleo

The first GOD that helped me in recovery was:

Gift
Of
Desperation