A different topic, maybe. Prohibition.
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A different topic, maybe. Prohibition.
How do you think we, as alcoholics would be different today if the 1920s Prohibition Act was still in effect? For countries other than the US, imagine alcohol is prohibited today.
How do you think your addiction would be any different, if at all?
For me, alcohol is a drug of convenience. Its everywhere, and not terribly expensive. However, I wonder if the substance, just being illegal and more inconvenient to get would have been enough to avoid it. "Cunning, baffling and powerful" may have applied more.
Thoughts?
Bunnez
How do you think your addiction would be any different, if at all?
For me, alcohol is a drug of convenience. Its everywhere, and not terribly expensive. However, I wonder if the substance, just being illegal and more inconvenient to get would have been enough to avoid it. "Cunning, baffling and powerful" may have applied more.
Thoughts?
Bunnez
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This is a pretty common topic here actually. For me it wouldn't have mattered, as an active alcoholic I would have continued to drink whether it was illegal or not. That was also the case during prohibition too - alcohol was still pretty widely available, it simply wasn't legal.
Look at illicit drugs if you need further proof - Heroin, Cocaine, Methamphetamine, LSD and a whole host of other drugs are illegal, yet people spend billions of dollars on them each year to get high. Prescription drugs are not illegal yet they are abused and sold on the black market to the tune of billions of dollars as well.
You cannot legislate sobriety.
Look at illicit drugs if you need further proof - Heroin, Cocaine, Methamphetamine, LSD and a whole host of other drugs are illegal, yet people spend billions of dollars on them each year to get high. Prescription drugs are not illegal yet they are abused and sold on the black market to the tune of billions of dollars as well.
You cannot legislate sobriety.
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The "prohibition" or illegality of drugs did not stop me from becoming addicted. If alcohol had been illegal, I would have just resorted to the same lowlife tactics to obtain it as I did drugs.
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lots of drugs are illegal and people have no issues aquireing and using them. In my pot days I might have a dry spell for a few days that I couldnt get some but i'd simply lean on some other substance to keep me in check.
I do however feel its criminal to tax something like booze or cigarettes etc.. at a higher rate. its like they are punishing / feeding off of the week and poor folks who are suffering with addiction. I guess the addicts are an easy target. I also dunno that i'd feel good about myself anyhow if i was throwing fuel on someones horrible addiction IE selling them the very same product thats ruining there lives.
but it is what it is. and I do believe we are entitled to be free to eat tinfoil and drink clorox if thats our fancy and gov and no one else has any right to stop us.
I do however feel its criminal to tax something like booze or cigarettes etc.. at a higher rate. its like they are punishing / feeding off of the week and poor folks who are suffering with addiction. I guess the addicts are an easy target. I also dunno that i'd feel good about myself anyhow if i was throwing fuel on someones horrible addiction IE selling them the very same product thats ruining there lives.
but it is what it is. and I do believe we are entitled to be free to eat tinfoil and drink clorox if thats our fancy and gov and no one else has any right to stop us.
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I think I would have died as I am sure a lot of alcoholics did. There was a lot of bad booze going around. I would not have cared. I would have found it and drank it.
Bill Wilson's story in the AA Big Book talks about drinking "bathtub Gin". This would have been me.
Bill Wilson's story in the AA Big Book talks about drinking "bathtub Gin". This would have been me.
Do your best
Join Date: Aug 2014
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it does say something that plays on my mind
why is alcohol legal ?
they get rid off coke factories when they find them same for marijuana/crack/heroin/meth/etc
alcohol remains legal ..... why ?
it is just as dangerous as any other drug
why is alcohol not taboo
why is alcohol legal ?
they get rid off coke factories when they find them same for marijuana/crack/heroin/meth/etc
alcohol remains legal ..... why ?
it is just as dangerous as any other drug
why is alcohol not taboo
EndGame
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For those familiar with the history of Prohibition and its aftermath in more than a passing way, Prohibition was a destructive and horrifying lesson that, among much else, sanctions against alcohol, rather than reduce such things as interfamilial abuse, crime, corruption, medical problems and deaths due to drinking, only made things much worse. It remains a blight on our history and an indictment of American jurisprudence of the time, and left society as a whole scarred forever.
Anyone could make alcohol, and much more cheaply than what was available prior to Prohibition, and it remained widely available. The law itself brought out the very worst among us all in all levels of government, law enforcement, and criminal elements, and provided a convenient excuse for those sitting on the fence around such issues as criminal behavior, corruption, violence, drunkenness and all manner of bad behavior to indulge without boundaries in self-destruction and abusive behaviors towards others.
I can't know your mind, and I don't know what your intentions are, but it's difficult not to assume that when we blame any external source for our problems, we're either missing the point or avoiding it.
Anyone could make alcohol, and much more cheaply than what was available prior to Prohibition, and it remained widely available. The law itself brought out the very worst among us all in all levels of government, law enforcement, and criminal elements, and provided a convenient excuse for those sitting on the fence around such issues as criminal behavior, corruption, violence, drunkenness and all manner of bad behavior to indulge without boundaries in self-destruction and abusive behaviors towards others.
I can't know your mind, and I don't know what your intentions are, but it's difficult not to assume that when we blame any external source for our problems, we're either missing the point or avoiding it.
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yep soberwolf i feel like that with cigarettes too. there not socially acceptable at all. yet booze is elegant and classy ? we look down on folks for a lot of things yet other things just as bad are just fine.
we are a confused bunch!
we are a confused bunch!
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Originally Posted by zjw 
yep soberwolf i feel like that with cigarettes too. there not socially acceptable at all. yet booze is elegant and classy ? we look down on folks for a lot of things yet other things just as bad are just fine.
we are a confused bunch!
we are a confused bunch!
You can blame external factors all day long for your ills, but it won't solve any of them.
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If it was prohibited since the 1920s (way before I was born), I highly doubt I'd be where I am now. Bootleg stuff would be too expensive to drink the way I used to drink. Not to mention harder to come by.
I got interested in alcohol when I was young, hanging out in my grandparents' basement. They had a huge fully stocked bar and frequent drunken parties. We grandkids would spike each other's drinks at holiday functions when we were in our early-late teens. If booze was illegal, that bar would have never been there. My dad wouldn't have gotten a 6 pack of Budweiser every single day after work.
To sum it up, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to give a crap about alcohol. I've done drugs that are illegal, but only briefly when someone else had them. Just a party thing. Never got addicted to nor perused any of that. I don't see why illegal booze would be any different.
I got interested in alcohol when I was young, hanging out in my grandparents' basement. They had a huge fully stocked bar and frequent drunken parties. We grandkids would spike each other's drinks at holiday functions when we were in our early-late teens. If booze was illegal, that bar would have never been there. My dad wouldn't have gotten a 6 pack of Budweiser every single day after work.
To sum it up, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to give a crap about alcohol. I've done drugs that are illegal, but only briefly when someone else had them. Just a party thing. Never got addicted to nor perused any of that. I don't see why illegal booze would be any different.
Do your best
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i dont blame anyone for my alcoholism i knew what i was doing i chose every drink no one had a gun to my head pls dont think that i blame others i dont and i wont
why dont they advertise crack on tv ? (at a party with loads of friends beautiful women etc)
heroin ? meth ? (this time advertise it for a diffrent age group rope everybody in)
ketamin (this time make the adverts slogan 'for no reason at all') (i seen a alcohol company on tv with this slogan)
this is my point scott
im not trying to say ban it all i dont drink nobody should i swear its not that
its the acceptance of it compared to any other drug
thats my point
why dont they advertise crack on tv ? (at a party with loads of friends beautiful women etc)
heroin ? meth ? (this time advertise it for a diffrent age group rope everybody in)
ketamin (this time make the adverts slogan 'for no reason at all') (i seen a alcohol company on tv with this slogan)
this is my point scott
im not trying to say ban it all i dont drink nobody should i swear its not that
its the acceptance of it compared to any other drug
thats my point
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Bunnez, I think the only way to not make an alcohol ban cause more problems than ever would be to rewrite the entire human history involving it. Maybe would have an effect, maybe not. In other words, imagine that it was never legal. It has been so widely available and ingrained in human culture throughout centuries that it's naive, at the very least, to assume that the problems associated with it could ever be erased or made much better by legislation. The outcome of the Prohibition was a good demonstration of this.
There are countries where alcohol is currently illegal for religious reasons, or it's purchase and public use is controlled by government. Does it stop people, who really want to use it, get what they want? I think mostly it does not. I know a few expats living in Islamic countries, who drink. Not necessarily alcoholically, but they will go get their drinks if they want to and don't feel shy about it. And this type of law always makes different kinds of behind the scenes industry flourish. It does even for illicit drugs that have never been legal. Using mind altering substances is far too much part of human nature, and it is so because it's related to how we are biologically wired, seeking out and responding to rewarding experiences, chemical or not. The normal functioning of the "reward circuit" in our brains is really not that far from an addiction mechanism. Why so easy to get hooked on obsessions and excess.
Personally? I've always tended to be reluctant to break the law and tried to respect it, and I do believe legal restrictions probably saved me from some trouble. It did not completely block me from experimenting, though. And remembering how I was as an active alcoholic, I believe sooner or later I would have disregarded any regulations to obtain my drug of choice. Whether I would have developed the addiction in the first place - there is no way of knowing. For example, I often say that it's great luck for me that most psychedelics have been illegal in the countries where I lived, and that they are not addictive the way alcohol is. There was a time when I lived in the UK, when psilocybin-containing mushrooms were legal. What did I do? Lots of experiments... I moved to the US then and never tried again. So the restrictions certainly work on me, but not sure they would have worked well on a serious addiction.
But this is just me. Look around how well the War on Drugs has worked in the grand scheme of things. And how well it works when others try to force an addict to give up their vice.
There are countries where alcohol is currently illegal for religious reasons, or it's purchase and public use is controlled by government. Does it stop people, who really want to use it, get what they want? I think mostly it does not. I know a few expats living in Islamic countries, who drink. Not necessarily alcoholically, but they will go get their drinks if they want to and don't feel shy about it. And this type of law always makes different kinds of behind the scenes industry flourish. It does even for illicit drugs that have never been legal. Using mind altering substances is far too much part of human nature, and it is so because it's related to how we are biologically wired, seeking out and responding to rewarding experiences, chemical or not. The normal functioning of the "reward circuit" in our brains is really not that far from an addiction mechanism. Why so easy to get hooked on obsessions and excess.
Personally? I've always tended to be reluctant to break the law and tried to respect it, and I do believe legal restrictions probably saved me from some trouble. It did not completely block me from experimenting, though. And remembering how I was as an active alcoholic, I believe sooner or later I would have disregarded any regulations to obtain my drug of choice. Whether I would have developed the addiction in the first place - there is no way of knowing. For example, I often say that it's great luck for me that most psychedelics have been illegal in the countries where I lived, and that they are not addictive the way alcohol is. There was a time when I lived in the UK, when psilocybin-containing mushrooms were legal. What did I do? Lots of experiments... I moved to the US then and never tried again. So the restrictions certainly work on me, but not sure they would have worked well on a serious addiction.
But this is just me. Look around how well the War on Drugs has worked in the grand scheme of things. And how well it works when others try to force an addict to give up their vice.
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My guesses are when it started, if were already an alcoholic, we'd continue. Otherwise once it was legal again just start then. Weed not legal where I live. That deterred me many times to try it especially for employment screening. It was my becoming an alcoholic quickly that keeps me away now. I certainly would have done it had it been legal, hoping for better results. Now I know not to try anything else, legal or not.
EndGame
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I tend to agree with haennie.
My analogy here is that trying to contain or otherwise control unwanted consequences that come with drinking is like trying to outlaw "evil" or aggressive thoughts because they often lead to bad behaviors. Not gonna happen.
Bad behavior is part of the deal we make when we don't make an honest effort to get help. It's not the drink, but the drinker.
My analogy here is that trying to contain or otherwise control unwanted consequences that come with drinking is like trying to outlaw "evil" or aggressive thoughts because they often lead to bad behaviors. Not gonna happen.
Bad behavior is part of the deal we make when we don't make an honest effort to get help. It's not the drink, but the drinker.
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well my issue with one bad habit being socialy acceptable verses another is my own issues with seeing things black and white and lacking the abiltiy to see the shades of gray. I can be too critical.
In the past it would bother me that someone would talk down to me about my smoking while at the same time buying me another drink. Or make an issue out of my drinking while they stuffed there face with unhealthy food.
people in the past have almost enjoyed looking at my flaws and useing them as way of leveraging themselves over me or putting me down to prop themselves up and it worked well too. Made me feel like garbage. One could argue that I allowed it and I did. One could also argue that they did it and they did. Both are wrong in the equation.
fast forward it doesnt bother me much anymore. and these same folks can demonize me for these bad habits anymore they all either squirm and are uncomfortable around me now or they have left my life.
from my view its just been interesting to watch this all unfold.
In the past it would bother me that someone would talk down to me about my smoking while at the same time buying me another drink. Or make an issue out of my drinking while they stuffed there face with unhealthy food.
people in the past have almost enjoyed looking at my flaws and useing them as way of leveraging themselves over me or putting me down to prop themselves up and it worked well too. Made me feel like garbage. One could argue that I allowed it and I did. One could also argue that they did it and they did. Both are wrong in the equation.
fast forward it doesnt bother me much anymore. and these same folks can demonize me for these bad habits anymore they all either squirm and are uncomfortable around me now or they have left my life.
from my view its just been interesting to watch this all unfold.
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Alcohol would still be everywhere, legal or not. Bootleg stuff was very widely available and not too expensive....
I recommend the Ken Burns series on Prohibition.
I was able to get illegal drugs with ease, and I'm not exactly the outlaw type.
D
I recommend the Ken Burns series on Prohibition.
I was able to get illegal drugs with ease, and I'm not exactly the outlaw type.
D
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I'm not for government controlling everything but on the other hand ease of availability and price do make a big difference. A lot of people quit smoking when the prices went way up, how can you argue that? Making any substance harder to get does lower overall use and I can't see why alcohol would be any different. The alcohol lobbies are very powerfull so I don't expect much to change.
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I'm not for government controlling everything but on the other hand ease of availability and price do make a big difference. A lot of people quit smoking when the prices went way up, how can you argue that? Making any substance harder to get does lower overall use and I can't see why alcohol would be any different. The alcohol lobbies are very powerfull so I don't expect much to change.
people get creative.
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Prohibition made drinking stylish - hip flasks, cocktails, speakeasys - and, ironically, made it easier for young people to obtain alcohol.
The prohibition against drugs did much the same thing. Heroin and cocaine are for rock stars now, instead of your aging aunt, and kids can obtain whatever drugs they want delivered to their door.
The prohibition against drugs did much the same thing. Heroin and cocaine are for rock stars now, instead of your aging aunt, and kids can obtain whatever drugs they want delivered to their door.
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