What is the nature of your Higher Power? AA question.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
What is the nature of your Higher Power? AA question.
Is your Higher Power exclusively benevolent? Does it bring about only good things? Is it just a source of strength when things go wrong? Does it control the universe? Is it responsible for everything, good and bad? There are lots of different views I am sure, and I would love to hear some.
Dr Paul' opinion is that nothing happens in God's world by mistake. Einstein believed there was no such thing as darkness, only the absence of light.
The Big Book devotes space to discussion of why we might have a negative view of conventional religion and the things man has done in its name. It also talks about other concepts like the Father of Light who presides over us all, or a guiding spirit of the universe. In AA were are encouraged to choose our own conception of a higher power. It doesn't matter what it is as long as it makes sense to us.
Some choose a door knob. Doesn't really make sense to me. Nature is a popular choice. There is no doubt nature is very powerful. It produces great beauty and poignancy, the new born lion cub, for example, then great cruelty when the cub is killed by the new dominant male.
Some choose to believe in a kind of guiding force and purpose behind the universe and all that happens. Like all we experience is part of a bigger unknowable plan.
What should a higher power do? Is it there to do our will, answer our prayers in a way we would like? " Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ", or is it our purpose to try and fit ourselves to do its will?
Are we given strength to deal with adversity, to remain sober, in spite of the misfortunes that befall us and our fellows. Does it change our nature from selfish to generous and loving towards our fellows. Does it gives us strength to deal with life, good and bad. Does a Higher Power give freedom from self?
What does it do for you?
Dr Paul' opinion is that nothing happens in God's world by mistake. Einstein believed there was no such thing as darkness, only the absence of light.
The Big Book devotes space to discussion of why we might have a negative view of conventional religion and the things man has done in its name. It also talks about other concepts like the Father of Light who presides over us all, or a guiding spirit of the universe. In AA were are encouraged to choose our own conception of a higher power. It doesn't matter what it is as long as it makes sense to us.
Some choose a door knob. Doesn't really make sense to me. Nature is a popular choice. There is no doubt nature is very powerful. It produces great beauty and poignancy, the new born lion cub, for example, then great cruelty when the cub is killed by the new dominant male.
Some choose to believe in a kind of guiding force and purpose behind the universe and all that happens. Like all we experience is part of a bigger unknowable plan.
What should a higher power do? Is it there to do our will, answer our prayers in a way we would like? " Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ", or is it our purpose to try and fit ourselves to do its will?
Are we given strength to deal with adversity, to remain sober, in spite of the misfortunes that befall us and our fellows. Does it change our nature from selfish to generous and loving towards our fellows. Does it gives us strength to deal with life, good and bad. Does a Higher Power give freedom from self?
What does it do for you?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
I'm sober 22.5 years and an agnostic, but I have a higher power, which I pray to. It's the collective consciousness of the universe (yes, very nebulous); at any rate, it's not ME, which is the important thing. In the beginning I used to try to figure these things out but gave that up long ago.
Recovered from Hopeless State
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,156
My Higher Power, my God if you wish, is my conscience. It's always known right from wrong. I just chose to ignore it when it got in my way. But now I've learned... the hard way, to surrender my will and my life to It. I just try to do the next right thing, one thing at a time. For me, drinking was not one of those things. Neither were all the crappy things I did, including nurturing my resentments, that made me want to drink.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
Have been thinking about the question you have posed here for the past couple of days. Spending time on SR and at meetings, there are generally discussions about conceptions of a higher power, and what ‘it’ is. It’s almost as if that line ‘as we understood him’ seems to encourage debate about definition, and needing to concretize something that perhaps is not up for grabs in that way.
Reflecting on all this, I see my HP as a teacher I see at work in my life. It is a compassionate and loving energy that reveals, guides and shows me where I am at, surprises me with circumstances I didn’t think would suit, but do, shows me, sometimes through discomfort what kind of character trait I am living in that doesn’t serve so well. This (perhaps obviously) means that what I am shown, what is revealed doesn’t always sit so well, but that is the deal….perhaps not only the deal but the purpose. If the connection with a HP is meant to serve to enlighten, show and teach, then it follows that sometimes, some of this may be uncomfortable….very uncomfortable, painful even.
But my experience has been that this is where the growth lies; and my experience is also that however much it hurts, there is something so loving, with such capacity, it can take every bit of anger and despair I have to throw at it. That’s some capacity some days. And it’s not something another human being could be expected to bear.
Personally, I have never understood the need to name my HP. In very early contact with recovery, I remember being asked what I thought it might be, and recall not having a clue how to respond. The question made very little sense to me- having to literalise something that was a force I couldn’t see, but had always sensed was there, and had always wanted to be closer to – made very little sense to me. I responded by naming the things I had no power to do – making the wind blow, or the rain fall – but at that time, those things I was powerless over did not extend to my alcoholism. That I was going to manage all by myself! That sense of needing a spiritual connection though had been with me since I was a child, and that it manifested in alcoholism, in that attachment to wanting to feel that sense of peace, comfort even, the other worldliness that being drunk or high results in, to get to that something I could never quite grasp or name, but so desperately needed, actually makes great sense to me now.
Have been reading a lot of Richard Rohr recently, and have loved his ideas, which are echoed by others such as Scott Peck, Gerald May and Ernest Kurtz, that alcoholism (or addiction in general) is indeed an attempt to go home, as it were. That makes sense to me too, that in fact, I was never very far from wanting to access a spiritual life (although I didn’t realise that’s what the desire was), but I just took a good few wrong turns. The wrong turns, ironically, were just what needed to happen. In that sense, how I may understand what benevolence or compassion is, may look odd to someone on the outside looking in.
So, for me, I don’t name my HP as such. What I have is a sense of a presence in my life that shows me who I am through what I experience each day. Having that sense doesn’t mean life is a bed of roses, or that I am happy all the time, it means I get to see and experience life in a different way, and seek comfort and the ability to endure, in an entirely different way. It also means I have access to a source of support and love that for a long time I thought I’d find in a bottle (then in a relationship, then in a job, then in material wealth….you get the drift) and finally through taking the time to be quiet, still and listen, I can find, that I see, hear and experience my life, and the events of the day, differently. That I can access that source of energy that resides in me, just by being quiet, and taking time, is both a developing source of comfort, and something that I don’t fully understand in the conventional sense of understanding. I don’t believe it is meant to be understood in that way either. My task is to trust, and continue to make time. Both are a struggle, but that too seems to be part of the learning about what faith, and its practice, is.
There are areas many other areas of struggle within all this, and that is perhaps what makes it so rich a topic – and you mentioned it here; the idea of how a benevolent God allows us to feel pain. It is so easy when responding to these kinds of questions and posts to offend someone who has experienced loss, grief or suffering. But, to some lesser or greater degree, and depending on personal resilience, we have all experienced loss, grief of suffering. There’s no immunity from that, and besides, immunity is not what sobriety (or life in general) promises. That there is though a source of such love, compassion and enormity that can hold me through anything, continues to be a source of fascination, and is at the core of my recovery today. I was actually looking for that all along as it turns out.
Thanks for posting, and sorry that is so long!! You posed some interesting questions, and it's a topic I love and am fascinated by.
Reflecting on all this, I see my HP as a teacher I see at work in my life. It is a compassionate and loving energy that reveals, guides and shows me where I am at, surprises me with circumstances I didn’t think would suit, but do, shows me, sometimes through discomfort what kind of character trait I am living in that doesn’t serve so well. This (perhaps obviously) means that what I am shown, what is revealed doesn’t always sit so well, but that is the deal….perhaps not only the deal but the purpose. If the connection with a HP is meant to serve to enlighten, show and teach, then it follows that sometimes, some of this may be uncomfortable….very uncomfortable, painful even.
But my experience has been that this is where the growth lies; and my experience is also that however much it hurts, there is something so loving, with such capacity, it can take every bit of anger and despair I have to throw at it. That’s some capacity some days. And it’s not something another human being could be expected to bear.
Personally, I have never understood the need to name my HP. In very early contact with recovery, I remember being asked what I thought it might be, and recall not having a clue how to respond. The question made very little sense to me- having to literalise something that was a force I couldn’t see, but had always sensed was there, and had always wanted to be closer to – made very little sense to me. I responded by naming the things I had no power to do – making the wind blow, or the rain fall – but at that time, those things I was powerless over did not extend to my alcoholism. That I was going to manage all by myself! That sense of needing a spiritual connection though had been with me since I was a child, and that it manifested in alcoholism, in that attachment to wanting to feel that sense of peace, comfort even, the other worldliness that being drunk or high results in, to get to that something I could never quite grasp or name, but so desperately needed, actually makes great sense to me now.
Have been reading a lot of Richard Rohr recently, and have loved his ideas, which are echoed by others such as Scott Peck, Gerald May and Ernest Kurtz, that alcoholism (or addiction in general) is indeed an attempt to go home, as it were. That makes sense to me too, that in fact, I was never very far from wanting to access a spiritual life (although I didn’t realise that’s what the desire was), but I just took a good few wrong turns. The wrong turns, ironically, were just what needed to happen. In that sense, how I may understand what benevolence or compassion is, may look odd to someone on the outside looking in.
So, for me, I don’t name my HP as such. What I have is a sense of a presence in my life that shows me who I am through what I experience each day. Having that sense doesn’t mean life is a bed of roses, or that I am happy all the time, it means I get to see and experience life in a different way, and seek comfort and the ability to endure, in an entirely different way. It also means I have access to a source of support and love that for a long time I thought I’d find in a bottle (then in a relationship, then in a job, then in material wealth….you get the drift) and finally through taking the time to be quiet, still and listen, I can find, that I see, hear and experience my life, and the events of the day, differently. That I can access that source of energy that resides in me, just by being quiet, and taking time, is both a developing source of comfort, and something that I don’t fully understand in the conventional sense of understanding. I don’t believe it is meant to be understood in that way either. My task is to trust, and continue to make time. Both are a struggle, but that too seems to be part of the learning about what faith, and its practice, is.
There are areas many other areas of struggle within all this, and that is perhaps what makes it so rich a topic – and you mentioned it here; the idea of how a benevolent God allows us to feel pain. It is so easy when responding to these kinds of questions and posts to offend someone who has experienced loss, grief or suffering. But, to some lesser or greater degree, and depending on personal resilience, we have all experienced loss, grief of suffering. There’s no immunity from that, and besides, immunity is not what sobriety (or life in general) promises. That there is though a source of such love, compassion and enormity that can hold me through anything, continues to be a source of fascination, and is at the core of my recovery today. I was actually looking for that all along as it turns out.
Thanks for posting, and sorry that is so long!! You posed some interesting questions, and it's a topic I love and am fascinated by.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
' "The right hand giveth - the left hand taketh away."
Not always a bad thing. That is just what an alcoholic like me needed. Some power that would REMOVE my obsession to drink.
The church God I had before only had one arm.
Is your Higher Power exclusively benevolent?
Not always a bad thing. That is just what an alcoholic like me needed. Some power that would REMOVE my obsession to drink.
The church God I had before only had one arm.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Thanks for a wonderful and thoughtful response Pipefish. I was recently reading Breathing Underwater. Richard Rohr has some interesting and practical perspectives and, as a priest, doesnt seem overly impressed with some of the churches teachings
.
Never would have thought I would be interseted in this sort of thing, but I am finding there is so much to learn.
. Never would have thought I would be interseted in this sort of thing, but I am finding there is so much to learn.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
Indeed he doesn't!! He's a brave man, and seems that his work is arising from his faith being about work on himself, how the teaching applies to his life and conduct, and how that is often absent in conventional faith. It's very refreshing, and much needed. If faith is not for that, then what is it for?
That kind of courage, combined with his honesty, is pretty disarming. I found it hard to make him wrong in his observations (not that I actually tried!)
That kind of courage, combined with his honesty, is pretty disarming. I found it hard to make him wrong in his observations (not that I actually tried!)
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 639
Deep question. My higher power who I choose to call God is closest to what the OP described in his last paragraph. God sets me free and does for me what I cannot do for myself. He provides protection and forgiveness through his son Jesus Christ. It is through God and Jesus that miracles have and continue to happen in my life.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Your post has been nagging at me. I am torn with whether I should respond or not but in the interest that my experience may help someone else I will.
I hit bottom last year. Its not the cliched bottom of loosing everything. Quite the opposite. Mine was filled with riches I could not afford but an emptiness inside that left me with suicidal thoughts daily. I believe my son transferred energy to me on a plane to provide my moment of clarity.
I believe we are all connected and this is why we desire to communicate. It was not until five or six months into recovery that I started to have faith in this connected energy. For ten months I have focused on doing the next right thing and I keep getting what I need. This is not always what I want but certainly what I need, which is not always positive either. Perhaps this answers your benevolent question. I have built faith that if I do the right thing then I will be protected. This allows me to turn my will over to my HP. I try not to worry about little things anymore, as I never had control of them in the first place. I am not perfect and this does not always work but I am trying. This has reduced my stress tremendously and allows me to have more peace in my life. I credit this to my HP.
I am not against traditional religion but perhaps favor a more Buddhist approach than the other traditional sects.
I hit bottom last year. Its not the cliched bottom of loosing everything. Quite the opposite. Mine was filled with riches I could not afford but an emptiness inside that left me with suicidal thoughts daily. I believe my son transferred energy to me on a plane to provide my moment of clarity.
I believe we are all connected and this is why we desire to communicate. It was not until five or six months into recovery that I started to have faith in this connected energy. For ten months I have focused on doing the next right thing and I keep getting what I need. This is not always what I want but certainly what I need, which is not always positive either. Perhaps this answers your benevolent question. I have built faith that if I do the right thing then I will be protected. This allows me to turn my will over to my HP. I try not to worry about little things anymore, as I never had control of them in the first place. I am not perfect and this does not always work but I am trying. This has reduced my stress tremendously and allows me to have more peace in my life. I credit this to my HP.
I am not against traditional religion but perhaps favor a more Buddhist approach than the other traditional sects.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 297
My Higher Power is the Logic that I had difficulty connecting to while I was using.
I made too many poor choices in the past, based on Emotion alone. I read this Great Quote: “Patience - the gift of being able to see past the emotion.”
I call this Higher Power the Perfect Logic. NOT Mankind's Logic, but the pure Logic of the Universe.
It does not FAVOR Me, as opposed to the poor other Drunks that have died or become wet-brainers. I feel that if I believed My Higher Power CHOSE Me to succeed over others, that I would only be perpetuating My self-centeredness and self-importance.
My Higher Power does not Care about Me in the least. But that does not STOP Me from drawing POWER from it and finally TRULY seeing the importance of Patience and Acceptance with My Recovery and life as a whole.
Believe it or not, I am seeing Real Beauty in the NEUTRALITY of My Higher Power. I see much Freedom and Potential in it as well, despite its lack of Benevolency.
Peace-
AL
I made too many poor choices in the past, based on Emotion alone. I read this Great Quote: “Patience - the gift of being able to see past the emotion.”
I call this Higher Power the Perfect Logic. NOT Mankind's Logic, but the pure Logic of the Universe.
It does not FAVOR Me, as opposed to the poor other Drunks that have died or become wet-brainers. I feel that if I believed My Higher Power CHOSE Me to succeed over others, that I would only be perpetuating My self-centeredness and self-importance.
My Higher Power does not Care about Me in the least. But that does not STOP Me from drawing POWER from it and finally TRULY seeing the importance of Patience and Acceptance with My Recovery and life as a whole.
Believe it or not, I am seeing Real Beauty in the NEUTRALITY of My Higher Power. I see much Freedom and Potential in it as well, despite its lack of Benevolency.
Peace-
AL
Recovered from Hopeless State
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,156
Originally Posted by diffingo911 
My Higher Power does not Care about Me in the least.
Recovered from Hopeless State
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,156
The children's song comes to mind...
"Jesus loves me, this I know. For the Bible tells us so".
I believe that Jesus was a real person that understood the way for us all to live better lives. I believe He didn't write it down but spoke about it and people listened. His words and wisdom were passed down over the ages and eventually became the New Testament. I believe the cruxt is the same John Lennon said later: "All you need is love".
"Jesus loves me, this I know. For the Bible tells us so".
I believe that Jesus was a real person that understood the way for us all to live better lives. I believe He didn't write it down but spoke about it and people listened. His words and wisdom were passed down over the ages and eventually became the New Testament. I believe the cruxt is the same John Lennon said later: "All you need is love".
Recovered from Hopeless State
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,156
P.S. As much as I admire Jesus, I'm still not sure I'm quite ready to put a fish on my bumper, lol. I am going to get ready to go to church in a few though to hear about Him and His words.
Recovering ostrich
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 2,551
Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
I'm sober 22.5 years and an agnostic, but I have a higher power, which I pray to. It's the collective consciousness of the universe (yes, very nebulous); at any rate, it's not ME, which is the important thing. In the beginning I used to try to figure these things out but gave that up long ago.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 322
Powers greater than me are nameless, shapeless, faceless. I have no idea if these powers have any type of consciousness or if there is any discernible meaning to be found within them. There are powers greater than me that formed the galaxies and that imbue life. These powers are unknown to me.
Since my higher powers are so blurry, I choose to rely on a Higher Purpose for strength to maintain sobriety. I'm not sure exactly what it is yet (beyond giving my children the stable loving parent they deserve) but I know that I will never find it and fulfill it drunk.
Since my higher powers are so blurry, I choose to rely on a Higher Purpose for strength to maintain sobriety. I'm not sure exactly what it is yet (beyond giving my children the stable loving parent they deserve) but I know that I will never find it and fulfill it drunk.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,360
At first I didn't know I just knew it was there. I have come to believe it is me. I think we all have some sort of innate wisdom and a divine part of ourselves. Knowing how to tap that divine part in myself lets me see it around me as well. Learning to trust myself again has been a huge part of this.
I'm am not in AA but I have really been helped by some of the comments and links. There is a site called aaagnostica that has some great info on it for anyone who considers themselves agnostic. I don't necessarily think in terms of agnostic or Christian anymore as far as myself goes. I just see those as walls now.
I'm am not in AA but I have really been helped by some of the comments and links. There is a site called aaagnostica that has some great info on it for anyone who considers themselves agnostic. I don't necessarily think in terms of agnostic or Christian anymore as far as myself goes. I just see those as walls now.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by diffingo911
My Higher Power does not Care about Me in the least. But that does not STOP Me from drawing POWER from it and finally TRULY seeing the importance of Patience and Acceptance with My Recovery and life as a whole.
That's the bad news. The good news is that spiritual prosperity is built right into the fabric of the Universe. Anyone can tap into it.
"With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource..."
(Appendix II)
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by LBrain
Have you ever heard that knowledge is power? Knowing that I can not control my drinking if I choose to drink again is my higher power.
HUMILITY - The truth about ourselves, the truth about our weaknesses and the truth about our potential to change.
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