soberlicious

You did not "lose" that time. The years you spent without drinking are valuable years. To think otherwise is absurd. The only thing left to do is move forward.

I drank again after 10 years. I went on to drink daily for the next 7 years. If you want to talk about lost time...there it is right there. I have been happily abstinent for over 7 years now. I have not found it harder this time around. The idea that I will never drink again has given me an indescribable peace and freedom. I do not "do" AA, or any other formalized program. I learned about AVRT a couple of years after quitting, and it jumped out at me as it as the closest way of thinking I had when I quit.

Whatever you do, or don't do now, I wish you the best. You can be free. You know that from before. This can be the starting point of a whole new life. It's up to you. xo

karate

And id like to add ,Who is doing the score keeping ?

Its not a competition ,just a personal goal for your own health and life .

I think all that counting days and years ,is just foolishness .

Like the denominations in Christian faith ,I want to just scream at people "ITS THE SAME GOD ,YA DUMMIES .

Lenina

Karate, I don't see the counting of time as a competition. I see as a way to show the new comers it is possible to have long term and life time commitment to sober living. Amd be happy about it. I don't care myself. I'm done. But it's a way to help out with hope for the new ones.

love from Lenina

karate

The fellow that taught me the most used to say ,when pressed on his time ....



"ALL DAY TODAY "

redmini

I should know!, get a friend to help you. i had used all of my own friends up and then i was pointed at the icarus trust and that is what they do; find you a friend to help. as much contact as you need to get through the bad days/hours. icarustrust.org - fantastic (so far)

tomthern

I came to this forum because I get so much hope. I have been sober 26 years. I don't want to go back so I have to continually find ways to stick around. Losing 5 years isn't a loss. It gives you a place to start. I haven't picked up but have a gone a lot of time dry. I'm here to help me to stop that.

karate

The ultimate goal is whatever helps the individual person .

Counting does not have any part of my ideal ,of a happy life .

But if someone does ,more power to ya .

Don't let my individual ideas ,stop anyone .

Im really big on simplifying problems ,Its what I do at work ,solve problems .
I need to solve them with the least $ spent on labor possible .

And it seems a cent is too much for my employer , despite millions wasted on equipment sitting unused . And I mean literally millions sitting unused .

Carlotta

I relapsed after 5 years in AA and it took me 6 years to come back. I have now close to a year and 4 months and the obsession was lifted almost immediately.
When I went back to recovery, I got a home group, worked the steps and started doing service work again as well as being active on SR. I also read about AVRT and attended Women For Sobriety (great program unfortunately I cannot make it on their meeting day )
I also did a lot of writing to identify the causes of my relapse.
All of us here who relapsed after having some sobriety under our belt and made it back should not feel like "losers" but be really grateful that we were given a second chance. So many people do not make it back

BackToSquareOne

That is the major downside in placing way too much importance on counting days. If you wear that like a badge of honor and slip it can leave you feeling like a failure. I've been there, done that and know how easy it was to use that as an excuse to say the hell with it and give up on sobriety.

The notion that you're a failure is the big lie I used to tell myself, the idea that the sober time I had meant nothing was just silly but I was good at telling myself those things. Try not to fill your head with such nonsense thoughts, use it as a learning experience and move forward.

Maybe the whole aspect of making someone start over at day one really isn't such a good thing after all, I always had mixed feelings on that. A person who slipped for one week after 5 years is not the same as one that drank daily for 5 years. Could be we need a better way of keeping score if we're going to place so much weight on the numbers. Good luck going forward!

Pipefish

Good on you Pixy for posting, and even more so for persevering with sobriety after a long-term stint, that is rudely interrupted by drinking again.

I drank after 12 years at the end of July last year, made a valiant stab at controlling it which was never going to work, and now have five months sober again. Strangely, I feel more sober now than I did for at least 8 of those 12 years. The dead giveaway? I recall being at an AA meeting at around 11 or so years sober, and another woman asking me how I'd managed to be sober that long, and I didn't have a clue how to answer her. By that point, I'd completely lost the plot as to any programme of recovery, let alone any ownership of one. It had become pure habit, and that habit was being eroded by increasingly obsessive behaviour around work and relationships. Something had to give, and it did. I'd like to think that this experience would enable a greater capacity to see and sense it coming, although my main hope is that I will see, sense and take action about (gently mind, always gently) those behaviours, attitudes, ways of thinking cropping up, and catch myself on, way before the event.

I took the steps again very quickly, but in a way I hadn't experienced before, with an online/telephone sponsor as per the BB to take me through. As he was a bloke and I'm a woman, did my fifth step with a long-term sober woman I have known for a number of years, who is always on my side, which includes telling me the truth even when I don't like it! So, I knew I could trust her to be an excellent guide :-). Doing the steps as per the BB was simple, enlightening, helped me understand obsession in a way I hadn't before. This helped me to see its manifestation in retrospect so clearly, and to see it happening now, although to be honest, it seems to me now that my history is to have been obsessive, and controlling, about almost everything it is possible to be obsessive and controlling about, and the recognition I now have is that not only does none of this work, unbelievably to me, it no longer holds any appeal whatsoever. Living in the principles of the programme, watching & noticing when I'm off beam, sharing with people I trust, being brave enough to tell the truth, making practical changes, all of this has been part of that experience of the past 5 months. It's brilliant, feels like I'm (finally!) growing up. And I'm only 46!! ;-) What's most telling about it, is that I don't feel 'happy' all the time, I just go with what is in front of me, and get on with it anyway. That is very new.

So, to be honest, I don't know if this is harder....it's certainly harder when my ego gets involved! It's hard when someone asks how long sober you are, but the example above is (when it comes to mind) a great reminder that it absolutely made no difference to me, 11 days, months or years, without that time being accompanied by a meaningful (and that means meaningful to you, I or anyone else on this path) commitment to, and practice of an approach to recovery. Mainly, it is different. I feel very different. Good different, and open to life, whatever it brings. That is new for me.

And the other thing that is striking me, just through writing this actually, is that I am actually tired now of harking back to what happened last summer, and am beginning to look at it only in as much as it informs what I need to do now, that I didn't do then.

Whatever your route, I wish you well & thanks again for posting. Not an easy topic, but a very rich one.

Aellyce

I've been a strange case of many disordered and often addictive tendencies since I was 10. I remember the realization of "something must be really wrong with me" when I was about 10 years old...

The first issue I had was related to my weight - I was an overweight child, based on old pictures probably from ~age 3. I was bullied pretty seriously due to this in kindergarten and in the early stages of primary school, by other kids. Yeah, kids are cruel sometimes.

Then to cut the next phase short: at 10 yo, I met another girl with similar problems who started extreme dieting... I realized suddenly that things may not necessarily need to stay that way forever...and she had become my role model for dieting. For like 2 weeks, until I had discovered "better" ways. Classic plot leading to anorexia. I did lose the excess weight, and more. Weirdly, even up to now in my memory, it wasn't hard at all.

Fast forward again, I was relatively happy for a few years in my teens - made this delusional perception that ALL of my positive life changes were due to my losing the weight... And here is something I don't usually like to talk about, but will add, perhaps it's useful for someone. I think my whole life could have taken a sharp turn and spared lots of later suffering, had my parents recognized my problems, had they taken me to therapy or any form of treatment... Anyway, that did not happen.
I kept struggling with the eating disorders until ~ age 26; I no longer have problems with eating, but definitely still some problems in my thoughts. Again: I was never treated for these problems in any way.

Again fast forward: I had a few truly pleasant, successful, productive, I will also say both happy and meaningful years between "defeating" the eating disorders (or what I thought that was) and starting to slip into alcoholism (latter in my early 30's, although now in retrospect I do recognize and can trace back my alcoholic tendencies to early teens, but it was a slow escalation).

I think in my case the untreated (self-treated) eating disorder morphed into untreated alcoholism, and the alcoholism exacerbated a host of other mental problems (eg. anxiety, depressive tendencies) to a point when all hell broke. I won't go into that, others have described various individual states of "bottom" all over on this board. I seem to be a creature with a very stubborn survival instinct though, because despite of experiencing all hells with extreme despair, paranoia, isolation, anxiety etc etc periodically, several times in my life... for some reason I just can't give up.

Many times I was also in really weird states of consciousness: as if my mind was split in two - one part completely destined to hell, and the other part just observing it all. In my case, I must thank this "observer" in me for my life, I am sure without it I would not be here today. Make of this whatever you like.

I did not even write about the more convoluted, complicated "relapses" I've had - not always and only alcohol so far. But my mind is really... a mess. Maybe my brain is.

In any case, for me this weird instinct that I've never understood myself other than what biology says, about survival - somehow has saved me so far despite of all the darkness. I like to call this "instinct of mine" an undying fascination with life... and death... and everything in between. Maybe this is my higher power.

Don't ever give up, not because you might discover something incredible outside of yourself, more for this long and complicated journey of us trying to find our ways to fit into the universe of both ourselves and our environments. And making connections on the go. I think it's worth it

Aellyce

To EndGameNYC:
"I learned nothing of any importance, and certainly nothing that gave me an advantage in terms of achieving sobriety again."

Absolutely, totally, untrue. Call me out about it anytime, on public board or in private, as you wish.

Gottalife

Not sure how you can say EndGameNYCs experience didn't happen. Perhaps you meant that this was not your experience.

To me there is relapse on the road to recovery, which are stepping stones leading to revelation of the truth about our drinking. They are not really relapses, because there is no recovery, more just taking a break between drinks. But that is not what EndGameNYC is talking about.

He describes very well something I saw in my friend Zac, who relapsed after 10 years sober in AA. When it happened I was blown away. Zac was solid AA, always there, always kind and helpful. We all liked Zac.

As I drove to see him I was thinking how straight forward it would be to get him back on the path. Into detox, then, with all that AA experience, it would be a simple matter to get him back on track.

I couldn't have been more wrong. All that knowledge, experience, service, infact everything about his past AA experience was gone. It was like his hard drive had been wiped. Nothing we could do or say, and many tried as Zac was very popular, made any difference. He was dead in three months.

The facts are these. If we chose not to do the work, or become complacent and the obsession returns, there is a very good chance of relapse. If that happens, there is no guarantee that we will get back or, if we do, that our past experience will be any use to us. It might or it might not... no guarantee.

todd6138

not necessarily enjoying these posts per se but gleaning anything I can to learn from this. I appreciate all of the honesty and I hope to make it back myself. I had two years once and have struggled to get more than nine months since, but usually one to three months. I feel frustrated a lot and work a little too hard and not give in and surrender enough thanks

Johnston

It was much harder for me the second time around because I felt that I could never regain the sobriety time I had. Once I stopped fixating on length of sobriety and started focussing on one day at a time, I gradually became more open to giving it another shot. I'm in my third year of sobriety now.

Have hope. You can do it again.

Grungehead

I had 7 years of sobriety followed by an 8 year relapse. When I got sober again I felt EXACTLY how EndGameNYC has described it. I stopped going to meetings, I never worked the steps, and I was as miserable sober as I had ever been as a drunk. Towards the end of my relapse I was utterly devastated and could not function at all. My HP intervened and gave me a moment of clarity in which I made a call for help. I had fully intended on continuing down the path into oblivion as that seemed like the easier softer way to go out.

But I can also report that 2nd chances (or 3rd in my case) can be successful. The one "good" thing about my last relapse is that it gave me the gift of desperation I had not had in the past. I came back to the program willing to go to any lengths to stay sober. I found a sponsor right away and he took me through the steps for the first time. That has changed my life and I recently celebrated one year of sobriety.

yeahgr8

A better comparison is running a business then it going bust. You would have to be some kind if stupid to then start another business up and run it in the same manner expecting a different result this time because you are thinking more positive!

Ive met lots of people that struggle with this concept. We had a guy come in a few weeks ago to a meeting i go to in another fellowship, he had relapsed after 6 years. He then goes on to tell a newcomer how to achieve abstinence so i had to grab the newcomer after and have a chat to undo the damage. Its just ego that keeps this guy from coming back and doing something different. He's even justifying his relapse saying that it wasn't so bad and he didn't lose his house. He has his enablers in his wife and brother who are telling him that just because he had a slip it doesn't matter, get back on the horse. Its crazy but some people aren't meant to see it. We cant all get better!

Pipefish

You would have to be some kind if stupid to then start another business up and run it in the same manner expecting a different result this time because you are thinking more positive! I've met lots of people that struggle with this concept.

Me too!! People struggle with doing things differently in life in general, and in AA. And for the AA members, sometimes those struggling have been sober years. The kind of advice giving you've described above isn't only restricted to people who have taken another drink.

We've all seen it probably....talking the talk, but not walking the walk, giving others a bum steer, rarely or never looking at themselves, or their lives. That doesn't only happen with those of us who have experienced a relapse though, and it can come back to me anytime I am not doing what I need to do with my own spiritual practice. Sometimes, the moral high ground does feel more satisfactory than plain on life on life's terms, things is, it's a little precarious and the danger of hoisting and petards, well that's ever present. When I catch myself doing it, am nudging myself with that line 'so there's a splinter in the other's eye, and a log in your own, so where would your attention be best focussed?!

Something my experience has taught me (because like others here, I don't believe I have no idea about anything at all, part of getting sober again is new understanding and insight) is that some things are not quite so black and white I as would paint them. That really is one of the joys of this time round, that I can begin to see subtleties. Black and white thinking is one of my character defects, and although, some things in life are either this or that only, many things are not. Makes life more interesting

And the final point....empathy. Taking another drink, or indulging in any other addiction after any length of sobriety in which there has been genuine effort to get sober (but not necessarily the effort needed to maintain it!!) is crushing. It really is not a recommended route to get the enlightenment or awakening that I (and am only speaking for myself) needed to turn a lukewarm commitment to recovery into a heart-felt one.

The guy you've described is full of ego, because right now, the alternative is too painful. Maybe he'll shift from that, maybe he won't, but either way, it helps to recognise that that can be me, again or anyone else here actually, anytime if that good spiritual condition is not maintained. Empathy for our fellows is essential.

And of course, it'd have been far more healthy not to have been in ego or pride in the first place, but that dominance of character defects and living in them again, is partly what relapse is. Realising that has been part of the retrospective learning from taking a drink last year, and letting go of it, to accept yourself right where you are, that's a process. For all of us actually, not just those who relapse......

leviathan

Im REALLY not bashing any programs...BUT, maybe this is a chance to try something different. Your sponsor dropped you!?! you feel funny calling for support? other folks judging? ugggg...

sobriety dates-what are they, really? not much more than something to give yourself that extra boost. to feel good about yourself, and have achieved something. does 5 years give more STATUS than 5 months? not with my friends. -this is worth a thread.

welcome back to the wagon. you drank. you were punished. nuff said!